Ball position confusion?

[jportz]

Please help....

I understand that there are different theories about ball position. Some say to leave it in one spot for all clubs and others go with the standard (off the left heel for driver, a ball back for 3 wood, middle of the stance or just slightly back for wedges)

My confusion is about ball flight in relation to ball position. At a lesson the pro told me that how he hits a fade is to play the ball slightly up in his stance and he moves it back to play a draw.

If I move the ball up in my stance I end up coming around and hitting a pull hook....back in my stance and I hit a straight push.

Is he wacked out or is my swing wacked?

I'm trying to learn how to hit a soft fade but all I can hit is a hook and a push....the fade is elusive for me.

[jportz]

Come on guys... a little help here???

[Mina]

I also move the ball position for different clubs. I find having the ball further back in my stance helps me hit down into it when using irons. For driving, I need to have the ball about halfway between my midline and my left foot (I'm right handed), otherwise I will hook if it is any further back. I think it is my swing that needs a lot of work. Maybe I swing differently depending on where the ball is, when I should really be having a consistent swing pattern no matter where it is.

[HIX]

This is just from personal experience. I am by no means a pro and play about 1 time per week and shoot 80-85. When i get a fortunate chance to play every day over a week - 2 weeks I consistantly hit 75-80.

 

 

I play the ball in a different position for pretty much every club. Driver at front foot. 5 iron dead centre of stance and rest of clubs move outwards in their respective dircetions. E.g. 4 and 3 irons progressively move towards my front foot (but still closer to midline than front foot). 6- p progressively move towards back foot. The p wedge eventually ends up at my back great toe.

 

Another thing that I do is progressively openup my stance as the ball moves farther back in it and also play the ball closer to my body when the irons get shorter. This generally helps me to draw my longer irons for added distance and hit high fades to slightly high draw shots with my short irons. I try to reproduce the same swing with each club.

 

 

As for the driver. This is a completely different swing for me.... and feel as though I am too inconsistant with this club to give any advice. I think that my problem is that when hitting the irons well I morph that swing into my driver swing and totally screw it up unconsciously.

 

Some people recommend that you hit all of your long irons in the same place in your stance (midline to forward) and play all of your short irons in the same spot in the back of your stance; without progressively changing position for each club.

 

 

Hope some of this helps a bit

[Ducky]

It really is an individual thing. The reason you would be hitting hooks when the ball is positioned inside your left heal is due to the release of your wrists. I don't necessary agree with your teaching professional that changing the ball position is the best way to work the ball. Instead, I would try to modify your alignment to be open/closed whilst keeping the club face square.

[ryanpgm]

It really is personal preference; however in my expeiences here is what I have learned. The golf swing is an arc. The optimal ball position for each club is where the arc "bottoms out" or makes impact with the ball, thus producing the best ball flight for each club. My personal philosophy is the exact opposite of what the club pro said. The farther forward you play the ball in your stance, the more of a chance the clubhead already has of beginning to shut down, release, or cause that nasty snap hook you spoke of. The farther back in your stance, the more chance there is of not squaring up, hanging on, or producing a fade. This of course is my thinking and only holds true if you have no significant problems, i.e. path or face angle.

[Pole_Position]

Ultimately the only way to hit a fade is to have the face slightly open relative to club head's path as the ball leaves the face. What I believe your pro is doing by altering the ball position during setup is setting up with the face slightly open or closed. When you put the ball forward in your stance and aim the face at the target you can plainly see that you have to open the face slightly. This openng of the face, all other things being equal, will cause a fade.

 

The reason it doesn't work for most amatuers (IMO) is because they open the face at setup with their hands/wrists - they simply turn the face open without releasing their grip on the club so in essence all they've done is moved the ball forward in their stance. Since the clubhead travels on an arc around the body (as seen from above looking down), moving the ball forward in your stance will result in hitting the ball with a leftward swingpath (so long as you don't shift your weight forward more, etc.). Since the amatuer hasn't adjusted his grip (he left it the same and simply turned the club, in essence making his grip stronger) the ball starts left and stays left or goes more left.

 

If you want to use this method to hit fades and draws, you MUST set the clubface in the direction you want it FIRST (usually pointing at the target), then set your feet so that the ball is in the position you want it, THEN take your your normal grip without turning the face at all (it's the LAST thing you do). If you take your grip first then address the ball you probably won't have much success using this method.

[jportz]

That makes perfect sense to me...thanks.

 

I guess my problem is that I'm always focussed on being on plane and swinging from the inside (after months and months of hard work I've finally gotten rid of my over the top move) but to swing from the inside and hit a fade seems impossible to me....I can hit a straight push that goes for miles (usually OB) or even an occassional push fade...also known as a slice ;-)

 

I'm jealous because my buddy hits a natural fade and it's a thing of beauty. It hardly ever gets away from him...it goes up nice and high and lands softly in the fairway or green. I always play a draw....but it can and does get away from me from time to time and there's nothing worse than a big old sweeping hook that not only lands in the left rough but has so much top spin that it ends up in BIG trouble.

 

The most success I've had hitting a fade is to weaken my grip and just make the same swing but I've been told that you should never change your grip so I don't know if I should continue working on that.

 

It's funny how so many people are jealous of my draw ball flight but I'm the guy wishing I could hit a fade natural fade instead. :man_in_love:

[Pole_Position]

There's a few ways that I know of to fade the ball. Remember, the face must be open relative to the swing path as the ball leaves the face:

 

1. Line up the face to the target (where you want the ball to end up), then line up your body left of the target (where you want the ball to start) with the ball positioned normally, then take your normal grip. What you are doing is essentially using a weak grip and aiming left (if you maintain your grip and rotate the club counterclockwise so the face is perpendicular to your body and aiming along the line your body is aiming your grip will have rotated to a weak position). This is normally how I would hit an intentional fade.

 

2. Use the method your pro uses. Again, you are setting up with a weak grip by positioning the clubface open. You are using swing path to start the ball left. This is how I would hit a high fade and would normally only use it with a driver.

 

3. Set up with your body and clubface aimed left (where you want the ball to start) and take a weak grip. Again, this is like method 1. Notice if you maintain your grip and stance and rotate the clubhead so that it points to the target your grip rotates stronger (more towards it's normal position). I like method 1 better because it's easier to control how much you open the face (thus how much it fades) by keeping the face pointing at the target and varying how far left you aim your body, then taking your normal grip.

 

4. Set up with your body and clubface aimed left and hold your release through impact. This method requires great clubhead control and timing and is the least controllable for me.

 

IMO in order to successfully work the ball both left and right your swing must be consistently on-plane through the impact zone. Like you I generally hit a straight to drawing shot and my misses come when I come into impact below plane; a fade is not my preferred shot. When I set up for a fade I have to think "swing left" which essentially helps guarantee that I don't come into impact below plane.

 

If you want to play a fade with an inside-out swing you may have to learn how to hit and set up for a "block fade" ala Trevino; otherwise you may have to do some more work on your swing plane :man_in_love: