Releasing the Hands/Clubhead

[tembolo1284]

[quote name='HappyGolf' timestamp='1295195038' post='2900695']
[quote name='ihatebogies' timestamp='1295041102' post='2897129']
I was at the practice tee and was purposely trying to draw the ball by really concentrating on getting my hands to release through the ball. Every once in a while the ball really had a great baby draw ball flight and the contact felt very pure. Most times though I was hitting low left quackers. Is there a conscious effort on your part to get the hands through and the club to turn over for you guys that hit pure shots or is it just the result of a good swing that produces a good ball flight without any real thought of turning the club over?
[/quote]

In terms of the replies you'll get I'm afraid it'll be each to their own... so here's mine

I believe that rolling the wrists or trying to 'release' the club is without doubt THE most destructive thing you can do in a golf swing.

I'll try to explain that in the easiest (science free) way. The club swings at approx 100mph and you want to roll the clubface so that it arrives perfectly square at impact... yeh, right.

I try to hit a soft push-draw that starts out to the right and curves back in to the target. In order to do this I have to have the clubface pointing right of the target so the ball starts to the right, if my wrists roll or I 'release' the club in some way then the clubface will roll closed and be pointing left (and be delofted)... which is why you hit your 'low left quackers' as you call them.


The swingpath is what imparts the spin on the ball to make it curve back to the target, so i swing very in-to-out to impart the spin. Rolling/releasing the clubface will not make the ball curve, it'll only start it in a different direction than intended.


Of course, as I said, this is just my opinion and simplest explaination. Hope that helps.
[/quote]

Happy, looks like we are starting to speak the same language. Great post sir.

[golfsavvy]

Fair enough on the last few comments. Shows that the model swing is still not defined, taking instruction on here should be taken with a grain of salt because we don't get to see you in person, and you should see a good professional. And we're [i]not [/i]all the same. I'll give 'releasing' another shot at a definition, but one of you Golf Machine guys might add or subtract, or take issue -- s'ok with me. Static words don't quite define a dynamic movement. And ok, I think that it's not that hard to teach releasing, but it is hard to teach it on here......

Rolling the wrists / forearms seems to be an understandable concept. So, in backswing we might all agree that the wrists break or **** or hinge, and as we swing forward some kind of lag of the clubhead is created meaning it lags behind the wrists and arms. At impact that lag is -- ok, released -- in that the wrists unhinge releasing the power into the clubhead. The clubhead passes the hands (exactly when/where is debatable) and the clubhead / hands is/are fully released when on the target side the arms and shaft form an angle that is similar to the lag -- some say it's at 90 degrees some more or less (don't care what the number is exactly...).

So, it is perhaps the un-breaking, un-hinging, or un-cocking of the wrists (lousy English to describe...) transferring the power down the shaft to the clubhead.

And I believe that you can release with or without tension...ok, there's a little potential controversy...

Ok, Food for thought, and debate is invited. I'm more of an ok, so-what-do-we-do-with-the-ball-now kind of a guy....

[golfbum9]

[quote name='GetmeouttaJersey' timestamp='1295062835' post='2897810']
In my opinion, if you have 0 tension, you're swing will naturally release your hands/arms through the shot and into the finish.
[/quote]

Exactly. +1

[TB07]

[quote name='GetmeouttaJersey' timestamp='1295062835' post='2897810']
In my opinion, if you have 0 tension, you're swing will naturally release your hands/arms through the shot and into the finish.
[/quote]

Tension is a HUGE contributing factor.
However IMO I will disagree with this conclusion as it is to general and rarely the case for most. It is an important piece to the puzzle, but just 1 piece.

[freshprince99]

[quote name='slicer2scratch' timestamp='1295239327' post='2902424']
[quote name='GetmeouttaJersey' timestamp='1295062835' post='2897810']
In my opinion, if you have 0 tension, you're swing will naturally release your hands/arms through the shot and into the finish.
[/quote]

Tension is a HUGE contributing factor.
However IMO I will disagree with this conclusion as it is to general and rarely the case for most. It is an important piece to the puzzle, but just 1 piece.
[/quote]

i must admit that i disagree with that conclusion too. no offense to jersey, i like his posts and appreciate his input, but it seems like a bit of an oversimplification to me. i just think there is way more to it than that. and i can set up to the ball with no tension in my hands and arms and still hang on to it and hit it straight right if i want to.

[golfbum9]

[quote name='slicer2scratch' timestamp='1295239327' post='2902424']
[quote name='GetmeouttaJersey' timestamp='1295062835' post='2897810']
In my opinion, if you have 0 tension, you're swing will naturally release your hands/arms through the shot and into the finish.
[/quote]

Tension is a HUGE contributing factor.
However IMO I will disagree with this conclusion as it is to general and rarely the case for most. It is an important piece to the puzzle, but just 1 piece.
[/quote]

That's true. But tension is certainly at the forefront.

[caryk]

[quote name='HappyGolf' timestamp='1295195038' post='2900695']
In terms of the replies you'll get I'm afraid it'll be each to their own... so here's mine

I believe that rolling the wrists or trying to 'release' the club is without doubt THE most destructive thing you can do in a golf swing.

I'll try to explain that in the easiest (science free) way. The club swings at approx 100mph and you want to roll the clubface so that it arrives perfectly square at impact... yeh, right.

I try to hit a soft push-draw that starts out to the right and curves back in to the target. In order to do this I have to have the clubface pointing right of the target so the ball starts to the right, if my wrists roll or I 'release' the club in some way then the clubface will roll closed and be pointing left (and be delofted)... which is why you hit your 'low left quackers' as you call them.


The swingpath is what imparts the spin on the ball to make it curve back to the target, so i swing very in-to-out to impart the spin. [b]Rolling/releasing the clubface will not make the ball curve, it'll only start it in a different direction than intended[/b].


Of course, as I said, this is just my opinion and simplest explaination. Hope that helps.
[/quote]
You hit the nail on the head with that reply. Great post!

IMO, it captures the difference between the new ball flight laws versus the old way of thinking. Once you understand that the initial direction of the ball is mainly influenced by the clubface, you begin to realize why rolling/releasing the clubface the "old" way can be so counter-productive to a consistent swing and make you very dependent on timing (not a good thing).

[mP_au]

But can working on a release help hold lag longer?
The Hoffman video was excellent in showing a variation on hitting draws contrary some old instruction. But he still achieves high ball speeds by his use of lag generated speed in the swing. I can see how lag held later can easily create the desired in to out path that makes a push draw, and thus no need for a full rolling of wrists or even a complete follow through to behind the head. But I suffer from a release of lag earlier than desirable resulting in just the push not the draw. So in my case face open to target but swing path square to face.
A low left might be a result of the same action but more aggressive wrist roll prior to the impact - so closed face to target but swing path square to face.

Is that feeling of 'Pured' actually coming from the increased velocity at impact from a good lagged club picking up speed prior to impact, rather than this nebulous term called 'Release' that I equate to that image of rolling the wrists thru and post impact?
And (I suspect it is) if thats the case, then working on a 'Release' drill could actually help hold that lag or wrist angle even slightly longer on the downswing could give you this feeling you are seeking?

[Calamity Todd]

[quote name='caryk' timestamp='1295283251' post='2903139']
[quote name='HappyGolf' timestamp='1295195038' post='2900695']
In terms of the replies you'll get I'm afraid it'll be each to their own... so here's mine

I believe that rolling the wrists or trying to 'release' the club is without doubt THE most destructive thing you can do in a golf swing.

I'll try to explain that in the easiest (science free) way. The club swings at approx 100mph and you want to roll the clubface so that it arrives perfectly square at impact... yeh, right.

I try to hit a soft push-draw that starts out to the right and curves back in to the target. In order to do this I have to have the clubface pointing right of the target so the ball starts to the right, if my wrists roll or I 'release' the club in some way then the clubface will roll closed and be pointing left (and be delofted)... which is why you hit your 'low left quackers' as you call them.


The swingpath is what imparts the spin on the ball to make it curve back to the target, so i swing very in-to-out to impart the spin. [b]Rolling/releasing the clubface will not make the ball curve, it'll only start it in a different direction than intended[/b].


Of course, as I said, this is just my opinion and simplest explaination. Hope that helps.
[/quote]
You hit the nail on the head with that reply. Great post!

IMO, it captures the difference between the new ball flight laws versus the old way of thinking. Once you understand that the initial direction of the ball is mainly influenced by the clubface, you begin to realize why rolling/releasing the clubface the "old" way can be so counter-productive to a consistent swing and make you very dependent on timing (not a good thing).
[/quote]

There are certain things that can or must be done throughout the swing to insure that a player isn't playing with too much of an open clubface going into impact. The path can only come from the inside so much to correct for an open clubface. I think if more players could get to a point where their clubface is in a tolerable range at the last parallel to the ground before impact....the "release" questions or finding a way to square the face wouldn't come up nearly as much.

Players with too much drag and not enough positive roll have to do something, right? This usually turn into a flip or conversly a shot to the right. How do most good players keep their clubface square to the arch into impact?

[ihatebogies]

Thanks for all the great replies, I've been away for a bit and just got back and I have read everything here several times. What is releasing the club, well it depends on what the definition of is is . Just kidding. When you throw a football or baseball or shoot a basketball there is a release of the ball from the hand that is the result (in part) of the wrist hinging then unhinging. I know that analogy isn't the best for a golf swing but how about a baseball swing. I don't know of any big hitters that "held on" to the bat through their swing. To me there is a "release" of the bat and rolling of the wrists and forearms.

I certainly see where trying to time consciously a release of the hands/clubface would be hard to do consistently but I watched a ton of swings this weekend on the Golf Channel at the Sony in Hawaii and it sure looked like the majority of the swings were of the "old school" variety rather than the swing posted here of Charley Hoffman holding on to club. (Does Charley hit his driver the same way?) I live in Hawaii and play in the wind a lot and do use a punch type swing on windy days where I tend to grip the club a bit tighter and hold on to the club through impact to keep the ball flight lower.

Now having said a bunch of nothing, back to my original topic. I did go to the range a couple of days and tried several things mentioned here. The 9 to 3 drill in association with the post about hitting four shots being very conscious of what you're trying to do followed by four shots on "automatic" times four was the most valuable. By the second day I was hitting the ball as pure as I have ever hit it. Now can I take it to the course?

.

[golfsavvy]

I'm not finding the 'release' term to be nebulous... Aren't we simply talking about how the wrists bend and load power, and unbend to impart power (use whatever terms you want there) as the body and arms rotate? I mean, if you create power by creating lag and then you release that lag I take that to mean that the wrists are bent and then they unbend. As the wrists and arms rotate it is possible to apply further rotational power, but what most of you guys are saying is that this won't work and that lack of tension is what releases the lag. Sure, that's one way to release the lag. After watching golf swings for almost 50 years (started playing in 1961), reading articles for 40, and studying it for 30, I've found support for almost any theory.

The basic schools of thought are to create lag, for which I haven't seen any dissention, then either applying (trying to enhance?) the built up lag-power or [i]allowing [/i]it to 'release' or transfer to the clubhead. Some people advocate an aggressive rotation of the arms and wrists, like young Justin Leonard (where DID he get that finish?), some people are inclined to enhance this release by extending toward the target after impact (that's not me...), and some people are more inclined to let it release into the ball while not being too concerned with what happens afterward. And I'm sure there are more theories.

It's interesting that by creating lag and aggressively abbreviating your finish to hit a punch shot that you can still impart a great deal of force into the ball that drives it aggressively lower through the elements. I've seen support for this as a means of actually increasing stress on the shaft thereby increasing shaft flex thereby increasing 'shaft unflex' (sorry, had to throw in a new term) and, thereby, increasing force on the ball.

But if the consensus is to 'produce' release or unbending of the wrist bend or lag through[i] [/i]lack of tension, then there are certainly other positions and factors that will affect direction, such as balance, body rotation, grip position, etc. Just sayin, the more old school I get, the more support I've seen for different views. (Coming from a guy who learned a lot from Manuel de la Torre and the reduced tension school of thought -- though I think I've tested almost everything...)

The wrists bend to create a lever and then unbend to increase clubhead force while the body and arms are rotating. Dunno -- doesn't seem complicated.

Side note: One key ingredient I've found is that when creating more lag, grip positions may need to be adjusted...

[HappyGolf]

I know that analogy isn't the best for a golf swing but how about a baseball swing. I don't know of any big hitters that "held on" to the bat through their swing. To me there is a "release" of the bat and rolling of the wrists and forearms.

 

Release is an extension not a rolling action.

 

A baseball player swings THROUGH the ball letting his arms straighten (extension), he's not trying to roll his arms (or the bat) as he hits the ball. The body does the rolling part naturally as the bat continues to swing through after impact.... to stop you you snapping your arms off! :D

 

This guy has already hit the ball.... does he look like he's 'rolled' anything?

 

 

His right forearm and back of his right hand are still pointing to the floor. Back of his left hand is pointing towards the sky. No rolling there! ;)

[ihatebogies]

I know that analogy isn't the best for a golf swing but how about a baseball swing. I don't know of any big hitters that "held on" to the bat through their swing. To me there is a "release" of the bat and rolling of the wrists and forearms.

 

Release is an extension not a rolling action.

 

A baseball player swings THROUGH the ball letting his arms straighten (extension), he's not trying to roll his arms (or the bat) as he hits the ball. The body does the rolling part naturally as the bat continues to swing through after impact.... to stop you you snapping your arms off! :D

 

This guy has already hit the ball.... does he look like he's 'rolled' anything?

 

 

His right forearm and back of his right hand are still pointing to the floor. Back of his left hand is pointing towards the sky. No rolling there! ;)

 

My bad!

 

Jim

[Calamity Todd]

A baseball bat is round.....so roll or hold-off would have little effect on a hit....only contact between the ball and bat matter. Also the grip used with a baseball bat...the hands oppose each other more. If you tried that with a golf club, the ball would fly 45 degrees to the right for a right-hander.

[HappyGolf]

[quote name='Calamity Todd' timestamp='1295291157' post='2903440']
A baseball bat is round.....so roll or hold-off would have little effect on a hit....only contact between the ball and bat matter. Also the grip used with a baseball bat...the hands oppose each other more. If you tried that with a golf club, the ball would fly 45 degrees to the right for a right-hander.
[/quote]


Yeh it's not a great example but for some reason Americans always like to refer to baseball and tennis swings when talking about golf... so I did what I could!

[cbrian]

Food for thought:
[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4cyWGHfudzs[/media]

[GetmeouttaJersey]

In my opinion, if you have 0 tension, you're swing will naturally release your hands/arms through the shot and into the finish.

 

Tension is a HUGE contributing factor.

However IMO I will disagree with this conclusion as it is to general and rarely the case for most. It is an important piece to the puzzle, but just 1 piece.

.

 

 

i must admit that i disagree with that conclusion too. no offense to jersey, i like his posts and appreciate his input, but it seems like a bit of an oversimplification to me. i just think there is way more to it than that. and i can set up to the ball with no tension in my hands and arms and still hang on to it and hit it straight right if i want to.

 

 

No offense taken buddy. I just wanted throw that key piece out, as it sounds like the OP may have issues with tension and clearly a few other things that can give him trouble

I just didn't want to get into the "what is a release" debate

 

[Calamity Todd]

Happygolf....No worries. I think baseball players used to roll their wrists in baseball to generate speed. Now they are much stronger, the ball is harder, and the parks are smaller for the most part.....and Albert's position is more consistent and the current model.

[GetmeouttaJersey]

[quote name='cbrian' timestamp='1295292049' post='2903475']
Food for thought:
[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4cyWGHfudzs[/media]

[/quote]



cbrian, that's more like a four course meal for thought man! haha

It's funny. I played high school golf with Steve and from what I can remember he's a good guy for sure. I'd like to delve deeper into the SnT swing and theories, ect. I'm sipping the kool-aid after doing a lot of research this weekend...While I'm late to the party, I'm excited to put some of these ideas and methods into practice...

[Calamity Todd]

What is Tiger Woods doing here? It appears he is turning his knuckles down or turning the glove logo down into impact. Is this because he was, at the time, playing from too open a clubface?

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nESDTgMck0U[/media]

Love this video BTW.

[TB07]

[quote name='Calamity Todd' timestamp='1295293533' post='2903520']
What is Tiger Woods doing here? It appears he is turning his knuckles down or turning the glove logo down into impact. Is this because he was, at the time, playing from too open a clubface?

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nESDTgMck0U[/media]

Love this video BTW.
[/quote]


Almost all good players do that to some degree.The better the golfer the more they try to restrict it somewhat (generally) and release more with the body.
Tiger would rehearse keeping his shoulders closed early downswing and getting his arms more in front of his body. With an on plane-flattish backlswing that would make him shallow early transition. Allowing him to turn the left forearm (back of the left hand) down as much as he wanted late downswing without fear of hooking. (Atleast thats the thinking.)

It also comes from being ingrained from his earlier years. As he USED TO have really fast hips. That required him to save alot of shots from going right with his hands.

[hbgpagolfpro]

[quote name='GetmeouttaJersey' timestamp='1295062835' post='2897810']
In my opinion, if you have 0 tension, you're swing will naturally release your hands/arms through the shot and into the finish.
[/quote]

My thoughts exactly. I find that most people who struggle with releasing the club properly are holding on too damn tight. That's because most people are trying to control the club. I often tell my students they need to lose control before they can gain control.

[ihatebogies]

Thanks to all for all the great posts and videos! The bad news is I'm more confused now than when I started this, the good news is I went out to range this afternoon and continued to work on a couple of suggestions from this thread and am hitting the ball as well as I have ever hit it so I am a very happy guy. Playing 18 tomorrow and will hopefully report a good result later in the day.

Maybe releasing the hands or the clubface is a the wrong way to describe what I'm seeking. I mean no offense to anyone because I'm the one that started this and am the one asking for help. Whether it's been positive help or constructive criticism it's all good in my opinion. I do have to say in the Stack and Tilt video just above, to me the bad swing seems to be a casting of the club early and a reverse pivot but what do I know JMHO. The good swing seems to be proper lag then a "release" of the hands/club. Watching Tiger's swing appears to me that there's a lot of lag then a (forgive me again) "release" of the hands and rolling of the wrist and forearms.

OK guys, your turn have at it educate me, I truly am a sponge wanting more knowledge on a proper golf swing. And yea I have had a number of lessons (from some of best) in my life from the likes of mikes, Mike McGetrick, Mike Adams, Mike Malaska and last but not least Trent Wearner for those of you that have said I should seek professional help. I have but just need some additional advice.

[cbrian]

In the video they are just exaggerating common problems that you see from a lot of golfers. There are obviously different ways to play the game, but they are trying to explain what they see as the more consistent way to do it. Also, they are trying to dismiss the thought that the clubface has to be closing through impact to hit a draw... which leads to a bunch of problems.

[Calamity Todd]

[quote name='cbrian' timestamp='1295321227' post='2904707']
In the video they are just exaggerating common problems that you see from a lot of golfers. There are obviously different ways to play the game, but they are trying to explain what they see as the more consistent way to do it. [b]Also, they are trying to dismiss the thought that the clubface has to be closing through impact to hit a draw... which leads to a bunch of problems.[/b][/quote]

Exactly right. My favorite is Johnny Miller explaining how he curves the ball by just turning the club a little during the fraction of a second the ball is on the clubface.

[Sean2]

According to Joe Dante most amateurs are afraid that the club head won't catch up with the hands so they "release" the club head early killing any lag they may have had.

According to Dante, the "coefficient of angular momentum" states that the club head HAS to catch up the the hands. It's physics. The lag can be sustained and will release all on its own because it can't do anything else. The golfer doesn't have to hold on to the lag or sustain it...just trust it.

I am still working on the whole trust part...

[JDUB81]

[quote name='golfsavvy' timestamp='1295288323' post='2903344']
I'm not finding the 'release' term to be nebulous... [b]Aren't we simply talking about how the wrists bend and load power, and unbend to impart power[/b] (use whatever terms you want there) as the body and arms rotate? I mean, if you create power by creating lag and then you release that lag I take that to mean that the wrists are bent and then they unbend. As the wrists and arms rotate it is possible to apply further rotational power, but what most of you guys are saying is that this won't work and that lack of tension is what releases the lag. Sure, that's one way to release the lag. After watching golf swings for almost 50 years (started playing in 1961), reading articles for 40, and studying it for 30, I've found support for almost any theory.

The basic schools of thought are to create lag, for which I haven't seen any dissention, then either applying (trying to enhance?) the built up lag-power or [i]allowing [/i]it to 'release' or transfer to the clubhead. Some people advocate an aggressive rotation of the arms and wrists, like young Justin Leonard (where DID he get that finish?), some people are inclined to enhance this release by extending toward the target after impact (that's not me...), and some people are more inclined to let it release into the ball while not being too concerned with what happens afterward. And I'm sure there are more theories.

It's interesting that by creating lag and aggressively abbreviating your finish to hit a punch shot that you can still impart a great deal of force into the ball that drives it aggressively lower through the elements. I've seen support for this as a means of actually increasing stress on the shaft thereby increasing shaft flex thereby increasing 'shaft unflex' (sorry, had to throw in a new term) and, thereby, increasing force on the ball.

But if the consensus is to 'produce' release or unbending of the wrist bend or lag through[i] [/i]lack of tension, then there are certainly other positions and factors that will affect direction, such as balance, body rotation, grip position, etc. Just sayin, the more old school I get, the more support I've seen for different views. (Coming from a guy who learned a lot from Manuel de la Torre and the reduced tension school of thought -- though I think I've tested almost everything...)

[b]The wrists bend to create a lever and then unbend to increase clubhead force while the body and arms are rotating[/b]. Dunno -- doesn't seem complicated.

Side note: One key ingredient I've found is that when creating more lag, grip positions may need to be adjusted...
[/quote]

No offense, but I STRONGLY disagree with the words in bold. I think/hope you are talking about how the left wirist C**CKS and used the word bend instead of C**CK. IMO, any thought of 'unbending' the wrists is a one way ticket to scores in the100's. My thought would is exactly the opposite: the right wrist bends in the takeaway and the thought is to NEVER lose that bend., you will lose SOME AFTER IMPACT but then it should be bent again at finish and follow through. The popular thought is to keep the left wrist flat which is the same as the right wrist being bent. However, 'freezing' the right wrist bend is a much better thought for some.

[jaycajun]

[quote name='GetmeouttaJersey' timestamp='1295062835' post='2897810']
In my opinion, if you have 0 tension, you're swing will naturally release your hands/arms through the shot and into the finish.
[/quote]

I never really released the club until I leanrd to RELAX. I had the "hold the angle thus hold the lag" deal going on which simply never let the club release. I know that when my golf coach finally got me to totally relax and get rid of the KUNG FU death grip, the club released. Then I started to hook the ball like never before..... Then when he got me to rotate the lower body, the ball flight straightened up. 10 months later, he got me from a 12 HC to an 8. Now, time to learn to chip and putt.

[golfsavvy]

K. Bend, c**k. Doesn't matter to me which you use. Perhaps I wasn't clear. Not necessarily saying that the un-bending or un-c**king of the wrists is a dynamic action vs. a reaction or a product of body and arm movements and lag. They bend or c**k or load and they undo whatever you want to call it on the forward move as a result of all of these forces and not necessarily as a result of muscles in the forearms and wrists that cause it to happen. At some point the clubhead catches up to and passes the hands. Just thought the wrists have to bend to c**k, but interpretation may take bending into different directions from c**king. I can still bend my left wrist while keeping the back of it flat, though I do see where your interpretation makes them do different things (actually I'd say under your definition, if one c**ks, then the other bends...)

Semantics and word use, as well as trying to take a dynamic movement and reduce it to static words. I still don't find the term 'release' to be nebulous. But others will.

[quote name='JDUB81' timestamp='1295380053' post='2906032']
[quote name='golfsavvy' timestamp='1295288323' post='2903344']
I'm not finding the 'release' term to be nebulous... [b]Aren't we simply talking about how the wrists bend and load power, and unbend to impart power[/b] (use whatever terms you want there) as the body and arms rotate? I mean, if you create power by creating lag and then you release that lag I take that to mean that the wrists are bent and then they unbend. As the wrists and arms rotate it is possible to apply further rotational power, but what most of you guys are saying is that this won't work and that lack of tension is what releases the lag. Sure, that's one way to release the lag. After watching golf swings for almost 50 years (started playing in 1961), reading articles for 40, and studying it for 30, I've found support for almost any theory.

The basic schools of thought are to create lag, for which I haven't seen any dissention, then either applying (trying to enhance?) the built up lag-power or [i]allowing [/i]it to 'release' or transfer to the clubhead. Some people advocate an aggressive rotation of the arms and wrists, like young Justin Leonard (where DID he get that finish?), some people are inclined to enhance this release by extending toward the target after impact (that's not me...), and some people are more inclined to let it release into the ball while not being too concerned with what happens afterward. And I'm sure there are more theories.

It's interesting that by creating lag and aggressively abbreviating your finish to hit a punch shot that you can still impart a great deal of force into the ball that drives it aggressively lower through the elements. I've seen support for this as a means of actually increasing stress on the shaft thereby increasing shaft flex thereby increasing 'shaft unflex' (sorry, had to throw in a new term) and, thereby, increasing force on the ball.

But if the consensus is to 'produce' release or unbending of the wrist bend or lag through[i] [/i]lack of tension, then there are certainly other positions and factors that will affect direction, such as balance, body rotation, grip position, etc. Just sayin, the more old school I get, the more support I've seen for different views. (Coming from a guy who learned a lot from Manuel de la Torre and the reduced tension school of thought -- though I think I've tested almost everything...)

[b]The wrists bend to create a lever and then unbend to increase clubhead force while the body and arms are rotating[/b]. Dunno -- doesn't seem complicated.

Side note: One key ingredient I've found is that when creating more lag, grip positions may need to be adjusted...
[/quote]

No offense, but I STRONGLY disagree with the words in bold. I think/hope you are talking about how the left wirist C**CKS and used the word bend instead of C**CK. IMO, any thought of 'unbending' the wrists is a one way ticket to scores in the100's. My thought would is exactly the opposite: the right wrist bends in the takeaway and the thought is to NEVER lose that bend., you will lose SOME AFTER IMPACT but then it should be bent again at finish and follow through. The popular thought is to keep the left wrist flat which is the same as the right wrist being bent. However, 'freezing' the right wrist bend is a much better thought for some.
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[JDUB81]

[quote name='golfsavvy' timestamp='1295381365' post='2906108']
K. Bend, c**k. Doesn't matter to me which you use. Perhaps I wasn't clear. Not necessarily saying that the un-bending or un-c**king of the wrists is a dynamic action vs. a reaction or a product of body and arm movements and lag. They bend or c**k or load and they undo whatever you want to call it on the forward move as a result of all of these forces and not necessarily as a result of muscles in the forearms and wrists that cause it to happen. At some point the clubhead catches up to and passes the hands. Just thought the wrists have to bend to c**k, but interpretation may take bending into different directions from c**king. I can still bend my left wrist while keeping the back of it flat, though I do see where your interpretation makes them do different things ([b]actually I'd say under your definition, if one c**ks, then the other bends...)
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Semantics and word use, as well as trying to take a dynamic movement and reduce it to static words. I still don't find the term 'release' to be nebulous. But others will.

[quote name='JDUB81' timestamp='1295380053' post='2906032']
[quote name='golfsavvy' timestamp='1295288323' post='2903344']
I'm not finding the 'release' term to be nebulous... [b]Aren't we simply talking about how the wrists bend and load power, and unbend to impart power[/b] (use whatever terms you want there) as the body and arms rotate? I mean, if you create power by creating lag and then you release that lag I take that to mean that the wrists are bent and then they unbend. As the wrists and arms rotate it is possible to apply further rotational power, but what most of you guys are saying is that this won't work and that lack of tension is what releases the lag. Sure, that's one way to release the lag. After watching golf swings for almost 50 years (started playing in 1961), reading articles for 40, and studying it for 30, I've found support for almost any theory.

The basic schools of thought are to create lag, for which I haven't seen any dissention, then either applying (trying to enhance?) the built up lag-power or [i]allowing [/i]it to 'release' or transfer to the clubhead. Some people advocate an aggressive rotation of the arms and wrists, like young Justin Leonard (where DID he get that finish?), some people are inclined to enhance this release by extending toward the target after impact (that's not me...), and some people are more inclined to let it release into the ball while not being too concerned with what happens afterward. And I'm sure there are more theories.

It's interesting that by creating lag and aggressively abbreviating your finish to hit a punch shot that you can still impart a great deal of force into the ball that drives it aggressively lower through the elements. I've seen support for this as a means of actually increasing stress on the shaft thereby increasing shaft flex thereby increasing 'shaft unflex' (sorry, had to throw in a new term) and, thereby, increasing force on the ball.

But if the consensus is to 'produce' release or unbending of the wrist bend or lag through[i] [/i]lack of tension, then there are certainly other positions and factors that will affect direction, such as balance, body rotation, grip position, etc. Just sayin, the more old school I get, the more support I've seen for different views. (Coming from a guy who learned a lot from Manuel de la Torre and the reduced tension school of thought -- though I think I've tested almost everything...)

[b]The wrists bend to create a lever and then unbend to increase clubhead force while the body and arms are rotating[/b]. Dunno -- doesn't seem complicated.

Side note: One key ingredient I've found is that when creating more lag, grip positions may need to be adjusted...
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No offense, but I STRONGLY disagree with the words in bold. I think/hope you are talking about how the left wirist C**CKS and used the word bend instead of C**CK. IMO, any thought of 'unbending' the wrists is a one way ticket to scores in the100's. My thought would is exactly the opposite: the right wrist bends in the takeaway and the thought is to NEVER lose that bend., you will lose SOME AFTER IMPACT but then it should be bent again at finish and follow through. The popular thought is to keep the left wrist flat which is the same as the right wrist being bent. However, 'freezing' the right wrist bend is a much better thought for some.
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I hear ya. But I think the biggest problem in golf is that people don't have the right info. or the right understanding of info. High handicaps are not from lack of ability but a lack of understanding. A lot of this is due to semantics and a lack of clear definitions. Anyways.... the right wrist bends, the left wrist c**cks. If you go to address and bend the right wrist straight back, the left wrist is now flat. As the hands go up plane, the left wrist c**cks and the right wrsit remains bent. The straighteining of the right arms can un c*ck the left wrist but the right wrist is still bent upon itself and the left wrist is still flat.