Equitable Stroke Control

[taylormadefan]

Can anyone explain why?

I understand ESC . . . That you're supposed to limit the maximum number of strokes you can take on a hole based on your course handicap.

However, I don't understand the why.

If you card a 10 in a tournament, it's a 10, there's no ESC allowed. So why is it allowed for calculating handicaps?

The only thing I can think of is that it's an anti-sandbagging precaution. However, all the sandbaggers I know just enter their high rounds and call their low rounds "practice." They don't even know what ESC is. . .

Is there another reason I'm missing?

[Gxgolfer]

I always thought it was to aid in speeding up play. If you are pass your ESC. Pick it up.

[sevenfourate]

I always thought it was to aid in speeding up play. If you are pass your ESC. Pick it up.

 

 

We have a similiar thing in the UK that can used when cutting someones handicap,or assessing cards entered in order to gain a handicap.

 

As a quick example,lets say an 8 handicapper has a great round,wins the club medal but in that round has a 10 on a par 5.Its pretty unlikely that an 8 handicapper is going to have to many 10's on the card to often...

 

So that 10 might be cut down to a double-bogey 7 for instance and their score and handicap adjustment would be based on them having scored a hypothetical 7,NOT the actual 10 they had.

 

Similiar rule - different scenario ?

[taylormadefan]

 

We have a similiar thing in the UK that can used when cutting someones handicap,or assessing cards entered in order to gain a handicap.

 

As a quick example,lets say an 8 handicapper has a great round,wins the club medal but in that round has a 10 on a par 5.Its pretty unlikely that an 8 handicapper is going to have to many 10's on the card to often...

 

So that 10 might be cut down to a double-bogey 7 for instance and their score and handicap adjustment would be based on them having scored a hypothetical 7,NOT the actual 10 they had.

 

Similiar rule - different scenario ?

 

Yes, very similar, except more practical. Here, if you're in a tournament and card a 10, it's a 10. I don't believe ESC is applied to tournament rounds.

 

From the littel bit that I've read about it, on the whole, I really think the UK handicap system is a far better and more accurate estimation of a golfers abilities. Since it's not based on "potential" like the US system.

[sevenfourate]

 

We have a similiar thing in the UK that can used when cutting someones handicap,or assessing cards entered in order to gain a handicap.

 

As a quick example,lets say an 8 handicapper has a great round,wins the club medal but in that round has a 10 on a par 5.Its pretty unlikely that an 8 handicapper is going to have to many 10's on the card to often...

 

So that 10 might be cut down to a double-bogey 7 for instance and their score and handicap adjustment would be based on them having scored a hypothetical 7,NOT the actual 10 they had.

 

Similiar rule - different scenario ?

 

Yes, very similar, except more practical. Here, if you're in a tournament and card a 10, it's a 10. I don't believe ESC is applied to tournament rounds.

 

From the littel bit that I've read about it, on the whole, I really think the UK handicap system is a far better and more accurate estimation of a golfers abilities. Since it's not based on "potential" like the US system.

 

From what very little i know about the US system,im lead to think the UK system (while far from perfect) is probably a better system than the US's too.Seems "fairer",less open to interpretation or "sand-bagging" as you guys call it,and overall a truer representation of your standard of play.

 

Primarily (especially for lower handicappers - like 5 handicap and below) ONLY competition scores count for your handicap adjustment in the UK,and all adjustments for these players are done by the County organisation NOT your local club.Above that handicap,general play cards can be used for handicap adjustments either way.

 

For someone like me who is interested in being the best i can,and achieving the lowest handicap i can,the one thing i find incredible in the US is that you can enter pretty much any card (please correct me if im wrong) for handicap purposes such as matchplay,fun games and even rounds played on your own.I dont see how someone can play off say +2 and have virtually no record of any scores like that in a competition scenario,under a bit of pressure - which is surely what its all about ? Over here a low single figure handicap really means something and has to truely be EARNED over quite a period of time,with a long record of good scores.With all due respect it seems that in the US almost anyone (if they chose) could manipulate themselves a low handicap and they seem as worthless as the free gifts given away with breakfast cereals in some instances ............. ?

 

On the flip-side someone can also enter a few high scrores into GHIN themselves over a very short period of time in order to raise their handicap prior to a big event.

 

Your system just seems very open to "abuse" to me.................

[oldgoalie]

I understand ESC . . . That you're supposed to limit the maximum number of strokes you can take on a hole based on your course handicap.

 

However, I don't understand the why.

 

If you card a 10 in a tournament, it's a 10, there's no ESC allowed. So why is it allowed for calculating handicaps?

 

The only thing I can think of is that it's an anti-sandbagging precaution. However, all the sandbaggers I know just enter their high rounds and call their low rounds "practice." They don't even know what ESC is. . .

 

Is there another reason I'm missing?

 

Match play. Compare a golfer that makes half pars and half bogeys with one who makes 3 triples and 15 pars. If they had the same handicap, the guy who makes triples would whip the other guy. It prevents big numbers from distorting handicaps.

 

Your other point as far as sandbaggers, if you have a real handicap, you have to turn in all rounds. There is no such thing as "practice" on the course. Even if you don't finish a round, you have to estimate what you would have scored on the holes you did not play. So by not turning in scores, their handicap is automatically invalid. This is something that is pretty easy to police if you are in a club. Say you see a guy out every other day and only 4 scores posted a month.

[wwhitehead]

I always thought it was to aid in speeding up play. If you are pass your ESC. Pick it up.

 

I've heard this, too. However, picking up and not completing a hole places a player in violation of USGA rules. Ironic, I think.

 

Equitable stroke control rewards steady players and penalizes streaky ones. For this reason, I'm not a big fan.

[taylormadefan]

I always thought it was to aid in speeding up play. If you are pass your ESC. Pick it up.

 

I've heard this, too. However, picking up and not completing a hole places a player in violation of USGA rules. Ironic, I think.

 

Equitable stroke control rewards steady players and penalizes streaky ones. For this reason, I'm not a big fan.

 

That's the thing I don't understand about it.

 

The better the player, the more ESC benefits them to keeping their handicap low, and picking up even quicker then.

 

Say a 3.7 plays a course (he's in the 0-9 range and can't card anything above a double). His playing partner is a 8.9 (he's in the 10-15 range and his max score is a 7).

 

Isn't a higher handicap more prone to carding higher numbers? If it were for pace of play, wouldn't it be the opposite?

 

This thing has my head spinning . . . :drinks:

[taylormadefan]

From what very little i know about the US system,im lead to think the UK system (while far from perfect) is probably a better system than the US's too.Seems "fairer",less open to interpretation or "sand-bagging" as you guys call it,and overall a truer representation of your standard of play.

 

Primarily (especially for lower handicappers - like 5 handicap and below) ONLY competition scores count for your handicap adjustment in the UK,and all adjustments for these players are done by the County organisation NOT your local club.Above that handicap,general play cards can be used for handicap adjustments either way.

 

For someone like me who is interested in being the best i can,and achieving the lowest handicap i can,the one thing i find incredible in the US is that you can enter pretty much any card (please correct me if im wrong) for handicap purposes such as matchplay,fun games and even rounds played on your own.I dont see how someone can play off say +2 and have virtually no record of any scores like that in a competition scenario,under a bit of pressure - which is surely what its all about ? Over here a low single figure handicap really means something and has to truely be EARNED over quite a period of time,with a long record of good scores.With all due respect it seems that in the US almost anyone (if they chose) could manipulate themselves a low handicap and they seem as worthless as the free gifts given away with breakfast cereals in some instances ............. ?

 

On the flip-side someone can also enter a few high scrores into GHIN themselves over a very short period of time in order to raise their handicap prior to a big event.

 

Your system just seems very open to "abuse" to me.................

 

You've got me thinking about moving to the UK just for that. Everything you've said about the US handicap system is true. Abuse goes in both ways. We've got guys who post both their bad rounds an their good rounds, it's silly.

 

My golf club has 2 handicaps who play off 7 and 15's who play off scratch. Entering in the match play or even weekend skins games is worthless unless you're ready to shoot under par or have padded your handicap by several strokes.

[Asleep]

If you card a 10 in a tournament, it's a 10, there's no ESC allowed. So why is it allowed for calculating handicaps?

It's used to through a a "blow-up" hole to normalize your scores. If you shoot 68 for 17 holes and you "Tin Cup" a 14 on the last hole, a 76 score is more indicative of your round than an 82.

...all the sandbaggers I know just enter their high rounds and call their low rounds "practice." They don't even know what ESC is. . .

That's cheating....everyone knows ESC....some folks just lack integrity.

 

4-3. Equitable Stroke Control

 

All scores for handicap purposes, including tournament scores, are subject to the application of Equitable Stroke Control (ESC). This mandatory procedure reduces high hole scores for handicap purposes in order to make handicaps more representative of a player's potential ability.

[glcoach]

Everywhere I have been a member the handicap was basically worthless..

 

My club plays points games and lowballs.

 

In the points game after 4 times playing you are assigned a quota.. (bogey - 1 pt.; par - 2 pts; bird - 3pts; eagle - 4pts.). While you are in your first 4 rounds you are "in the circle" so to speak and can only help or hurt your team by 3 points, but are eligible to win as many skins as they want. For instance if someone shoots between 77 and 82 in the 4 rounds their quota will be 26-32 points.

 

All of the cards are kept and for the club championship you are assigned a flight based on your performance in the weekly points game.

 

The lowball is a different animal...but all scores are kept and turned in and you are assigned a "letter" you are either an A, B, C, or D player and for the CC you are flighted accordingly

 

It's a pretty good system and works well if you have a club where most of the members participate in club games...it also basically does away with the handicap and the only people who keep one are like me who just want to use it to gauge my progress as a golfer.

[HIX]

 

 

Equitable stroke control rewards steady players and penalizes streaky ones. For this reason, I'm not a big fan.

 

 

 

For this reason, I am a fan. It is better to penalize streaky players then consistant/steady ones. I think that it is to keep your handicap score under control and averaged out appropriately. I think that if you generally shoot around 8 over par and maybe have the occasional blow up on any certain hole. I don't think that you should be penalized an extra 5 strokes for just that one hole. The equitable strokes will keep that number down to maybe 2 over on the blow up.

 

I think that if you score 96 on a given course and then end up with 76 with equitable strokes, then your handicap will be adjusted appropriately (higher handicap and higher equitabel stroke score; so instead of stopping at 2 strokes over par with equitable strokes on a certain hole, you will be penalized for 3 shots over par).

 

I do not think that it means you should pick up your ball everytime you reach your equitable strokes on a given hole.... Your handicap would never get worse.

[oldgoalie]

I always thought it was to aid in speeding up play. If you are pass your ESC. Pick it up.

 

I've heard this, too. However, picking up and not completing a hole places a player in violation of USGA rules. Ironic, I think.

 

Equitable stroke control rewards steady players and penalizes streaky ones. For this reason, I'm not a big fan.

No, you are required to play out every hole in any round, ESC is only for handicapping purposes. However, if it is not any sort of competition, you may as well pick up for there is no one to DQ you.

[TwistedSister]

Your other point as far as sandbaggers, if you have a real handicap, you have to turn in all rounds. There is no such thing as "practice" on the course. Even if you don't finish a round, you have to estimate what you would have scored on the holes you did not play. So by not turning in scores, their handicap is automatically invalid. This is something that is pretty easy to police if you are in a club. Say you see a guy out every other day and only 4 scores posted a month.

 

 

Every course I've had a handicap... When you go to play the Pro(attendant) gives you a marked card. When you finish the card must be signed by your partner and you verifying the scores. No card retruned nets you a par round. If you are plus golfer you would get a score equal to par minus your HDCP. Seemed to work really well. Also one club would double count ALL scores in a tournament.