Pete Dye Designs

[One_Putt_Blunder]

When did he change to the diabolical Pete

Well I preface this by saying I can't stand Dye as an architect with the one exception being the Harbour Town course which he did in 1967 with the help from Nicklaus.

Since Harbour town is such a drastic change from what I am used to with Pete Dye Golf Courses when did his design philosophy change? Just did a couple minutes worth of reasearch based on Dye courses I know and ASU Karsten 1989 and TPC Sawgrass 1980 are drastic departures from the design of the Harbour Town small flat greens flat narrow tree lined fairways.

Harbour Town is one of my favorite courses to watch on TV as I love the design off it and really want to make a trip out there to play it one day, which is different because I will usually go out of my way not to play a Dye design.

[bazinky]

I don't know that his design philosophy actually changed, I just think he occaisonally designs poor golf holes and/or courses. It's more of a factor that as his name has gotten bigger, he can get way with more poor designs. I've played a number of Dye courses that I loved (such as Harbour Town), and several that I hated, both older and newer designs ...

Dye's biggest weakness as an architect is his tendency to design golf holes that can only be played one way. For example, I've played several of his courses where he puts a HUGE artificial mound in front on a short par 4 (usually with water in the back and surrounding the green, too), making the hole undriveable. Everyone (even a tour caliber player) has to lay up, and then hit a blind shot to the green. The courses that he designs that have too many such holes that leave no room for improvisation and imagination are the ones I hate/

[dukeman]

I agree with original post. With the exception of Harbor Town, which was a joint design to some degree with Nicklaus, I can think of few if any Dye courses that I would want to play more than once. The design philosphy seems to be make a par or pick up because you're headed for an X.

I have played TPC Stadium course several times, and it's probably my second favorite (second least hated?) Dye course, but its most famous hole, the 17th, is a classic example of his design philosphy....make a par or an X. Moreover, one of the biggest factors in your score is something totally uncontrollable and unpredictable - the wind.

[zonacats23]

I've played both courses at Whistling Straits, both courses at Blackwolf Run, Sawgrass, and Ruffled Feathers here in Illinois. I love Dye's courses. In no way am I trying to badmouth you, but I can't get over these people who blast a designer for his courses when they list all the courses of his they've played. If you don't like them, don't play them. I personally like them because they are different from other layouts. Most of the ones i've played, have held major championships or The Players, so I expect them to be harder. Call me sick, but I like when I pay $$$ and the course eats me alive. It lets me know that I'm a weekend hack and that the pros are DAMN GOOD. I get a kick out of people complaining about Sawgrass being target golf....every course is target golf. You pick a target and try to hit that target. Even if it's a links style course, you still want to hit it where you're aiming. Like I said, I have absolutley nothing against you, i just laugh when people play a bunch of designers courses but yet cant stand them.

[Bobbers]

One of the earliest Dye designs is in the Lake Geneva area of Wisconsin. Original name was "the Briar Patch" and was a course Nicklaus supposedly had input on. A number of holes where if you don't "hit the six foot circle" you not only don't have a good shot, you lose the darned ball entirely; and it matters not what tee you play. To create some perspective, I've read an interview with Nicklaus where he stated that he regretted allowing his name to be used as a designer of the course, he was that unhappy with the playability of the finished product.

I've also played Blackwolf Run when it was first opened; many, many forced carries of distances and trajectories that most golfers don't possess. And while challenging is good, a course that only a scratch golfer can score on is something else in my opinion. I don't bash Dye designs, I simply prefer and play other courses. Too, I think that signature is one thing, repetitively using the same design features over and over is trite. Again, for those that enjoy the experience, more power to you, I'm not one who thinks its fun to see guys have to buy a couple of dozen balls at the turn to survive the back nine...

[zonacats23]

I agree with Bobbers. Pete does use his signature features over and over again(railroad ties). I just happen to be one who likes Dye's courses. There is nothing wrong with someone who doesn't like them and there is nothing wrong with people who do. But atleast you don't continue to waste your money somewhere you dont like.