New Irons and Lie Adjustment problem.

[jwalker497]

need input.

I went to buy a set of game imp irons, demoed a whole bunch, liked the Fusion Wide soles. All of the clubs I demoed were standard Lie. Got custom fit with a Lie Board and the guy reccomended 3* to 4* upright, becuase I was hitting the standard clubs on the toe. Now, I"m only 5'10" and he said that 3-4* would be for a person that was 6'7"tall!! I Was very suprised to hear that. I do stand tall but that made me think - "I'm doing something very wrong." He said that's just my swing, it's steep. Anways I placed the order for the Wide Soles +3. Got a call today that the fusion wide soles can only be bent 2* up, so they said they got the rapture irons in and they can be bent more so I could try them since they are similiar to the Fusions in technology. So I hit them today and also learned that Pings are flatter than most other brands and for them I would need a lie adjustment of +4 or +5 (maroon), which equates to most other brands' 3* or 4* Upright. Pings run flatter that other brands. Anyway, The Raptures Felt good but the fusions felt better and they seemed like they had a larger head and I'm all about forgiveness. PLus, I kind of made my mind up after several demoing sessions, which isn't easy when it comes to these things, so now I'm all confised!!! I shoot in the low 90s, high 80s (best round 88) and have avg distance. What should I do??

I want to get a new set of irons that I can have a while, but I'm a little hesitant to get a severe Lie adjustment, then have my swing get better and grow out of that. AND I'm also hesitant to not go with the my first choice irons. Help!!

[vthokie1157]

i would go out and get a few lessons, work on the stuff you learn and then re evaluate your iron purchase as far as options and technology.

[Loki7177]

i absolutely agree with the above statment. go to a pro and find out if it is a swing flaw that is causing this.

[Evil R1]

I was just the opposite. When I was first hitting the lie board, I was at 2º Flat for the X-18's, while the callaway static fit chart had me at Standard Lie and Length. After talking to the fitter, he told me this is somthing that will never change. I spoke to my Golf Instructor and it was basically due to me losing my spine angle on my back swing and gave me some items to work on.

 

1 month later I was hitting it right down the middle of the lie board, and I am so happy that I didn't buy irons that were dynamically fit for a swing in progress.

 

Also, Callaway states that they can bend any Callaway Iron +/- 3º, but with the Fusion Wide Sole being made from Ti, that might be different.

 

Thanks,

[jwalker497]

The problem with bending the Wide soles mopre than 2* is the tungsten weight. Other models can be bent 3*, your're right. The wide soles cannot.

 

I'm thinking that maybe i should go with the 2* adjustment of the wide soles, and work on my swing some more and see what happens. I could always have the, bent back to standard, if I progress. Maybe a few degress will help me, but I must be doing something wriong if I am striking the ball like a 6"7" person would.

 

I'm more leary of buying clubs I don't want and futhermore getting them adjusted a lot and then have my swing change and have the lie adjustment work agaisnt me. I don;t want to have clubs modeled after a bad swing, if I have one, then progress and have the clubs work against me.

 

I agree with you all that My swing is a work in progress and I am always tweaking it, eventully when I can afford it, I'd like to get lessons. But that's not in the ner future and I am playing a pretty old model club so the tenchnology would help.

 

Which do you think makes more sense.

[Evil R1]

Play with the biggest piece of junk K-Mart irons and get lessons, that will yield much better results than $1200 irons will.

 

Also, to get your irons adjusted again, you have to ship them back to Callaway as 99% of fitters can not adjust Callaway Irons, and 100% of them will void your Warrantee.

[jwalker497]

Thanks for the advice but I;m not playing Kmart Irons. I;ve been progressing steadily after only 3 seasons and have cracked 90. I'm just swinging very steeply right now.

[Loki7177]

Another good point from the above post. You will hit the ball much better with crappy clubs and a good swing then great clubs and a crappy swing. Not saying you have crappy swing, but you get the idea. If you have 1000+ to put into irons you can afford a lesson or two. Plus you won't have to deal with the hassle of sending them back to Callaway to get readjusted, not to mention the time it takes to get a custom order from a Callaway too.

[Evil R1]

Thanks for the advice but I;m not playing Kmart Irons. I;ve been progressing steadily after only 3 seasons and have cracked 90. I'm just swinging very steeply right now.

 

Sorry if that came out wrong, I wasn't trying to say you were playing with crappy K-Mart Clubs.

 

Just in my oppinion is I personally feel I would be better off with a set of Golden Bear Clubs from The Sports Authority and a nice textbook swing from lessons, than a self taught swing and Top of the Line Clubs. I'm sure the best solution is somewhere inbetween (X-18's and lessons?)

 

Thanks,

[jwalker497]

I understand and agree with you all that a swing is the most important. That aside, which of the 2 options would you choose?

[Evil R1]

I guess I would look at it two ways. If you are not taking lessons currently than it might be a while before you fix you swing to stop digging the toe in and the 3º Up will definately make the game more enjoyable (theoretically). At the same time you might ingrain a major swing flaw that once learned might be very difficult to un-learn as your clubs wouldn't be setup to adjust to the "New" swing once you start taking lessions or work the issue out yourself.

 

So, I guess I would either be just static fit (height, wrist to ground, etc) to ensure the proper standard lie angle and length. Or I would purchase a set of Forged Irons that can be bent by a local club fitter. I know some of the places around me offer free lifetime adjustments on all irons they sell. While they wouldn't be Fusion Wide Soles, they would be irons that can adjust as your game adjusts without having to pay Callaway $50 + shipping to have them adjusted.

 

Just an idea, best of luck to whatever you decide.

[jwalker497]

I'm not worried about getting them adjusted in the future, cuz my shot told that would be free.

[dac]

your swing may not be flawed if you're getting clean shots in with the clubs bent upright as you've mentioned. how is your ball contact and ball flight? if it's long and straight (for the most part) with the swing you've got, i don't see any particular swing "flaw."

 

pro's have their equipment tweaked in unusual ways, too, and i can name a few pro's whose swings are less than 'perfect,' if you know what i mean. just a thought, of course...

[jwalker497]

your swing may not be flawed if you're getting clean shots in with the clubs bent upright as you've mentioned. how is your ball contact and ball flight? if it's long and straight (for the most part) with the swing you've got, i don't see any particular swing "flaw."

 

pro's have their equipment tweaked in unusual ways, too, and i can name a few pro's whose swings are less than 'perfect,' if you know what i mean. just a thought, of course...

 

 

THANKYOU!

 

Everyone is obsessing on my swing flaw and lessons. But that's not my question. I never said I had a known swing flawor not - I don't know, I'm sure I do. But lessons aren;t happening right now. Belive me, I;ve seen may bad swings and although I;m no professional, I can shoot in the high 80s on a good day and that's not a bad round in my mind, so I can;t be doing anything that bad. I;ve imporoved a lot in the short time I have played.

 

I demoed the standard lie clubs and hit the fusion wide sole pretty good. Of course, I have my fair share of mishits too, but When it came time to fit me, they gave me the lie board and I generally hit the standard lie clubs near to toe, meaning I needed an upright adjustment. The Toe was diggin in the ground. I don;t know if that was just something I was doing that day, as some days you're swing is there and sometimes it not. As the guy explained what Lie angle is - I began thinking that, maybe part of the reason that I;m hitting near the toe right now, is becuase I am focusing on bringing the club on my takeaway up versus a more traditional rotation. My swing just changes evolves, goes backward whatever. Whatever my swing issues may or may not be - I think I would really benefit from the new technology today and a larger more forgiving golf club than what I have. So I have a few choices and am trying to make the most edcuated.

 

1. Go with my first choice Wise soles in the 2* Upright (some lie adjustment not all that they said I needed) and I can work on my swing.

 

2. Go with the Big Bertha model in the 3* Upright (Closer to what I reccomended, but the clubs were not my first choice, 2nd choice)

 

3. Go with a different Iron like the rapture (Which I was not impressed by) and get the recommended 4* Lie adjsutment (5* in pings)

 

4. Go with a standard Lie on the Wide soles and just work on my swing.

[joesgonegolfing]

I did not see it so if I missed it let me know but, if your fitting consisted of hitting off a lie board and static measurements then it was not done correctly. YOU MUST SEE BALL FLIGHT.

 

When I fit clubs, I watch ball flight and it tells you most everything you need to know. Grip size if your hooking needs to be bigger balls going right need upright lies and so on.

 

Watching ball flight and a good launch monitor basically have relegated standard static fitting obsolete.

 

As an example I am a +1 that on a lie board mark irons closer to the toe, but if you watch my ball flight I need flatter lies to take out some of the hook. How I am impacting on turf vs lie board is different.

 

I am sure many will disagree with me but RARELY is anyone + or - more than 2-3 degrees. Additionally I was a 26 handicap when I started playing in 1997, I learned on Taylor Burner Tours, a blade and then later Mizuno MP33's. Yes game improvement irons help and they do make the game easier but pick up a true blade 7 iron for some of your practice and you will see more improvement with your GI irons.

 

Joe

[jwalker497]

I did not see it so if I missed it let me know but, if your fitting consisted of hitting off a lie board and static measurements then it was not done correctly. YOU MUST SEE BALL FLIGHT.

 

When I fit clubs, I watch ball flight and it tells you most everything you need to know. Grip size if your hooking needs to be bigger balls going right need upright lies and so on.

 

Watching ball flight and a good launch monitor basically have relegated standard static fitting obsolete.

 

As an example I am a +1 that on a lie board mark irons closer to the toe, but if you watch my ball flight I need flatter lies to take out some of the hook. How I am impacting on turf vs lie board is different.

 

I am sure many will disagree with me but RARELY is anyone + or - more than 2-3 degrees. Additionally I was a 26 handicap when I started playing in 1997, I learned on Taylor Burner Tours, a blade and then later Mizuno MP33's. Yes game improvement irons help and they do make the game easier but pick up a true blade 7 iron for some of your practice and you will see more improvement with your GI irons.

 

Joe

 

Thanks Joe, good post.

 

I fogot to mention. Yes I Saw ballflight the whole time from everything I hit and I think that's why I am especially confused. I hit som fantastic shots with the standard Lie Clubs, nice High & Straight (avg 6 iron 160). As the fitter gave me more upright clubs, I noticed the impact mark moving toward the center of the club, but many of the shots had the same result.

 

So that's why I am thinking that mabe 2* is plenty to help some of my inconsistency right now or maybe even go with standard lie. 3* on up doesn't seem right. If am striking the ball a way a 6"7" person is then I don;t think I want to order a custom built set around that, do i????

[lysaght68]

Get the Widesoles because you know those are the sticks you want. In your shoes I would seek out a second or even a third authorized Callaway fitter to confirm the results from your first fitting. It will cost some extra $ and time but put your mind at ease about playing sticks that fit you. Did the fitter who recommended 4 degree upright lie angles also recommend playing your irons at shorter than standard length? If that's the case the very upright angle makes more sense the shorter length you play. Also, with Callway or Ping irons you'll likely get very good re-sale value down the road if you make some drastic swing changes and require significantly different specs. Good luck.

[jwalker497]

Standard lenght

[sfdoddsy]

I responded on the other site, but I suspect I misinterpeted your fitting results. I thought you were actually 6' 7.

 

If you are 5" 10 but, as your fitter says, swinging like a 6'7 person, I think you would be crazy to order the Wide Soles so upright.

 

Your swing is what it is and may change, but +4 is absurdly upright unless you stand so close to the ball that you shave your toes.

 

You've hit the Wide Soles at standard length and lie and liked them the most. You hit them high and straight.

 

Buy them.

 

If, after a couple of months, you notice that you are digging the heel in a bit and hence hitting them left, then you may need them bent flatter. If you dig the toe a bit and fade right you may need them bent upright.

 

But any fitter who suggests that someone of your height gets his clubs bent 4* upright is an idiot, unless you have the swing of an Ian Woosnam.

 

Get the Wide Soles. Leave them standard at first.

 

You'll love them.

 

Steve

[jwalker497]

Thanks steve, i thought 3-4* seemed like a lot and I certainy don't want to mold clubs to that.

 

So you think I should go standard and then adjust if I need it?

 

or should I got 1 or 2* up and then adjsut if I need it?

[SwingMan]

Get the Fusion Wide Soles - get them 2 up - and adjust them later as your swing improves.

 

Hey, I play a bit overlength - 1/2 inch - got my Callys 1 to 2 up - no problem. Of course, those Callys are long gone - 7 years ago gone - but I am still .5 over and 2 up. Until I get to wedges, then I go 1 up.

 

Enjoy the Wide Soles.

[jwalker497]

Just found out you cannot adjust wide soles once you order them. All othe rmodels can be adjusted.

 

I can;t win!

 

I;m just going with Big Berthas - to hell with it!

[jscw]

If my memory is right, + 1/2 (or +1) inch is equal to 2 degree up. If you want to keep your swing and don't want go 4 or 5 degree up, longer shafts might be an option.

If, I say if, Jim Furyk uses off the shelf clubs, he might need to get more than 2 degree up. His swing, well, is so non-traditional.

[lidomkj]

Tons of good advice here, but a few things jump out at me.

 

You want new irons, get new irons, but why get something that can not be adjusted? I can understand getting something fit to match your swing now, but you know that it will change over time. Get something you can adjust or you will be buying new irons again later and have a hard time selling clubs that are 3-5 degrees upright. Might make the game more enjoyable now, but harder later.

 

Get a second opinion, if someone is recommending a fitting that seems completely wrong, they probably are wrong. I quit golf for about 10 years and picked it back up 2 years ago. Bought a new set right away, but was fitted wrong 1/2 inch longer and 2 degrees upright. Still had a rusty swing, but I did not know any better. Fitting was not that common 10 years ago and most clubs were standard and only option was regular, stiff or extra stiff shafts. Bought them and within 2 weeks, returned them and got a new set after getting 2 proper fittings. Everything was standard, but now I play 1/2 inch shorter. Turns out the guy who did my fitting was fired for not knowing what he was doing.

 

The choice is yours on what to do, but I would take a good look at the advice listed above. Obviously, that is what you are looking for or you would not have posted this topic.

[jwalker497]

GOOD ADVICE.

 

after all this talk, i decided to go with standard fusions, then if i need an adjustmnet down the road, i'd get it. Placed the order, got a call back saying that the fusion wide soles, cannot be adjusted, once they are cast, that's it.

 

So i had 2 choices -

 

1.go with the fusios standard and never be able to adjust them - or

 

2. go with the Big Bertha 2006 which can be adjusted later on down the road.

 

Thinking 2 makes the most sense.

[birdie29]

Dont mean to throw a spanner in the wrx but mizuno mx900 can be adjusted up and down after purchase many times. Plus loft can be altered too with no bother i believe becuase it is forged. Just as forgiving as well i think

[jwalker497]

I decided to order the big berthas so that I have the ability to adjust them in the future if need be. thanks for all the good advice