Taper Tip Wood Shafts

[astamm8]

Info and Discussion Desired

I'm just wondering about taper tip wood shafts. Choosing a shaft when refinishing an old wood can be a problem, and so far I've just had the hosel reamed out for a .335 shaft. But lately I've really been thinking about trying to go with some tapered wood shafts.

I see some True Tempers around (.277 and .294) that seem to be the same but are variously described as Dynamic and Dynamic Gold. Did they make these in both Dynamic and Dynamic Gold? What is the difference between the two? For what it's worth, I've also seen Dynamic Lite in .294.

What I typically see are .277 shafts (in R) with a .600 butt and .294 shafts with a .620 butt (in S and X). I don't like big butts (!), and for a long time I couldn't find anything above an R in .277. And of course .294 is already to big to fit without some work.

I was very fortunate to get my hands on some .277 45" and 44" inch shafts. The have .600 butts. They're True Temper, but don't have a code on the butt. The step pattern matches a Dynamic Gold S400 that I have in a Penna that I think is .294, but I'm not sure. It is smaller than .335 though. I don't have any .335 dynamic golds to compare it to.

Anyone have the goods on True Temper taper tip wood shafts? It's hard to find this kind of info these days. Were there any other Taper Tip shafts that were popular? I'm thinking after the NDWS and more like the end of the persimmon era. What about like the Apex wood shaft? Was that ever a Taper Tip?

Thanks!

[Bella Woods]

astamm8:

Yes, True Temper made tapered tip wood shafts in both Dynamic and Dynamic Gold.
Dynamic the old standard from the 1940s on, Dynamic Gold the newer "improved shaft".

Actually, parallel tip "unitized" shafts didn't exist prior to the early 1970s. So I would think
that any shaft prior to that would be tapered, no matter who made it.

.277 was the regular shaft with .600 butt. .294 was the stiff/extra shaft with .620 butt. Ladies/senior was
.270, it was the way of the world for many years.

Tapered tip (wood) shafts basically disappeared in the mid to late 1990s.

The True Temper Dynamic Gold shaft was in principal the same shaft as the old Dynamic shaft,
but supposedly the weight tolerance was much tighter. Therefore, for instance, S100, S200,
S300, S400, S500 instead of just the S flex. The steps were also about 1/8" longer i think.

I can't remember when the Dynamic Gold was introduced though, late 1970s to early 1980s?
Maybe someone on the board will remember.

[rex235]

[quote name='Bella Woods' timestamp='1313280936' post='3482396']
astamm8:

Yes, True Temper made tapered tip wood shafts in both Dynamic and Dynamic Gold.
Dynamic the old standard from the 1940s on, Dynamic Gold the newer "improved shaft".

Actually, parallel tip "unitized" shafts didn't exist prior to the early 1970s. So I would think
that any shaft prior to that would be tapered, no matter who made it.

.277 was the regular shaft with .600 butt. .294 was the stiff/extra shaft with .620 butt. Ladies/senior was
.270, it was the way of the world for many years.

Tapered tip (wood) shafts basically disappeared in the mid to late 1990s.

The True Temper Dynamic Gold shaft was in principal the same shaft as the old Dynamic shaft,
but supposedly the weight tolerance was much tighter. Therefore, for instance, S100, S200,
S300, S400, S500 instead of just the S flex. The steps were also about 1/8" longer i think.

I can't remember when the Dynamic Gold was introduced though, late 1970s to early 1980s?
Maybe someone on the board will remember.
[/quote]

Bella-

Had some persimmon woods made for me in the early '80s, with Dynamic Gold shafts
The earliest DGs had different shaft band colors.
BTW- Any idea who might have some Tourney Pro Pel 2 shafts for 2.3.4 woods?

[astamm8]

Thanks guys!

What do you make of a .277 tip, .600 butt shaft that's a True Temper and matching step pattern to a Dynamic Gold S400 Taper Tip?

Any other taper tip shafts? Apex, maybe?

[rex235]

Sounds a little like the Cleveland Classic persimmon wood shaft, but....

Your answer might be in here...

[url="http://www.golfwrx.com/forums/topic/318780-vintage-steel-shafts/"]http://www.golfwrx.com/forums/topic/318780-vintage-steel-shafts/[/url]


A friend reshafted my MacGregor Persimmon LH2W with an Apex 4 taper tip shaft. [i]Not bad at all.

[/i]

[Bella Woods]

[quote name='astamm8' timestamp='1313286110' post='3482649']
Thanks guys!

What do you make of a .277 tip, .600 butt shaft that's a True Temper and matching step pattern to a Dynamic Gold S400 Taper Tip?

Any other taper tip shafts? Apex, maybe?
[/quote]

astamm8 - I checked and I stand corrected - both TT Dynamic and TT Dynamic Gold wood shafts have/had 1 7/8" steps. (Per Maltby).

Because taper tip shafts were basically butt trimmed to length only, the step pattern should be the same on all unless
they were tip trimmed for some reason. Butt trimming only is why the shafts were sold in varying lengths for installation.

So - your .277 tip .600 butt True Temper shaft is probably a Dynamic Gold R flex (R something - 100,200,300,400,500) shaft -
I am assuming that no shaft band exists.

I don't know much about Apex shafts, but I would be surprised if they were not made with a taper tip - they have been around a
long time.

[astamm8]

[quote name='Bella Woods' timestamp='1313290745' post='3482887']
Because taper tip shafts were basically butt trimmed to length only, the step pattern should be the same on all unless
they were tip trimmed for some reason. Butt trimming only is why the shafts were sold in varying lengths for installation.

So - your .277 tip .600 butt True Temper shaft is probably a Dynamic Gold R flex (R something - 100,200,300,400,500) shaft -
I am assuming that no shaft band exists.
[/quote]

But the first step is the same distance up the shaft on a Dynamic Golf S400. Wouldn't an R?00 shaft have the first step up further than an S?

What was the butt size on the old NDWS (or others)? The made those in .277 and S and X flexes. Was there not a replacement shaft in the 70s and 80s that did not require reaming out to .294?

Thanks.

[Bella Woods]

astamm8:

If the first step of the Dynamic Gold S400 is the same distance as the .277 shaft,
it would indicate that the same raw length shaft (assuming no tipping) was used on both.

Various lengths were available when buying the True Temper tapered tip shafts (45", 44",
43 1/2", 43",42 1/2" and 42"). In general, the 45" and 44" shafts were purchased for drivers,
43 1/2" shaft for 2 woods, 43" shaft for 3 woods, 42 1/2" for 4 woods and 42" for 5,6 and 7 woods.
One thing that is nice about tapered tip shafts is that the club is cut to length after
installation in the club head.

If you were to stand all of the different length shafts together resting on the butt end, all
of the steps would (pretty closely) match up although the tips would be different heights.
The reason that unitized (parallel tip) shafts became so popular is that you only had to buy one
length shaft and tip trim it to length.

Bottom line is that if you have a .277 taper tip shaft, it is a regular flex shaft, depending on
its weight it could be R100, 200, 300, 400, 500 etc. It could be tipped stronger also, Maltby says
that for every 1/2" a tapered tip shaft is tipped, it changes the flex by 1/4 stiffer, tipping it
2" would change a regular flex to stiff. It also changes the tip diamater when you tip a tapered shaft
also.

I believe that the old (1940s etc) NDWS shaft had a .620 butt, however I have never measured the
ones that I have. NDWS shaft was .294 not .277, the old NDW shaft (Tourney D Chrome) may have come
with a .277 tip.

Yes there was a replacement shaft in the 1970s and 1980s that did not require a .294 bore, the .277
tapered tip True Temper Dynamic Gold shaft (amoung others I am sure).

I pulled out my 1995 Golfsmith catalog and you could still buy True Temper Dynamic Gold .277 tapered
tip shafts from them (Regular Flex)in 44", 43", 42 1/2" and 42" lengths (for less than $7 per shaft!).
I don't remember for how long after 1995 you could still buy the tapered tip wood shafts, but I don't
think it was for very long. They kind of disappeared around the same time as the persimmon woods, due
to the graphite shaft popularity in the "modern wood" explosion.

Looking long enough, you can probably still find the .277 shaft (new and never used).

[Bella Woods]

astamm8:

I just read your original post and see you already found a couple
of .277 shafts, so much for paying attention.

Per Maltby:

R500 - 128 Grams
R400 - 126 Grams
R300 - 124 Grams
R200 - 122 Grams
R100 - 120 Grams

Maybe if you weigh them you can figure out which R flex you have, the
above are plus or minus 1/32oz (a little less than a gram).

[astamm8]

Thanks Bella.

I measured the width of the shaft just above the whipping (this is a good 4 or 5 inches up the shaft) on a Dynamic Gold .294" S400 and it was considerable wider than the same spot on the Dynamic (Gold?) R?00 shaft. So even thought the step pattern is the same, I guess that the stiff is made stiffer my have a thicker tip and butt. What about the X? The tip and butt are the same as the S, so I'm guessing that the first step is closer to the clubhead? On parallel that's obviously how it's done; first step closer to the tip is stiffer.

Well that kind of sinks my ship as far as getting a .277 shaft with a .600 butt, since I can't use an R. My other thought is to get a 42" R500, install it in a driver and extend the butt to 43" (or whatever the playing length is). This would be like a R500 driver shaft, tipped 3", which should be stiff enough.

I measure a Tourney C shaft that I had around, and it's .277 (I can't measure the butt as it's gripped). Weren't pretty much all of the top Mac's from the late 40s to early 60s .277? I thought they were, so I figured there must be some shafts out there that were .277 and stiffer. Oh well.

[Bella Woods]

astamm8:

That is exactly what was done, the stiff was made stiffer by a thicker tip and butt,
but weight played a role in it as well. The heavier the shaft, the stiffer the shaft.

The difference between the S flex and X flex tapered tip shafts (both having .294 tip
and .620 butt) was simply the weight of the shaft. The x flexes were slightly heavier.

I would not close the book on your .277 tip .600 butt shaft hopes yet, if you have an
R500 and tip it even just 1/2" you will be approaching S200 territory (your tapered tip
will now be .281 though). Tip it 1" and you will have a solid S300 with a .285 tapered tip.

With such a small adjustment to the tip (.281 or .285), you can use a round file instead of
boring it out with a drill. I don't know if that defeats your purpose or not.

The top MacGregor clubs of the 1940s through 1960s, if played by a good/top amateur or pro,
in my opinion, would have been the stiff/extra stiff flex .294, not the .277. I am sure a
lot of club players and "regular" golfers of that era played the R shaft with .277
(some maybe even tipped).

[rex235]

[quote name='Bella Woods' timestamp='1313350674' post='3484576']
astamm8:

That is exactly what was done, the stiff was made stiffer by a thicker tip and butt,
but weight played a role in it as well. The heavier the shaft, the stiffer the shaft.

The difference between the S flex and X flex tapered tip shafts (both having .294 tip
and .620 butt) was simply the weight of the shaft. The x flexes were slightly heavier.

I would not close the book on your .277 tip .600 butt shaft hopes yet, if you have an
R500 and tip it even just 1/2" you will be approaching S200 territory (your tapered tip
will now be .281 though). Tip it 1" and you will have a solid S300 with a .285 tapered tip.

With such a small adjustment to the tip (.281 or .285), you can use a round file instead of
boring it out with a drill. I don't know if that defeats your purpose or not.

The[u] top MacGregor clubs of the 1940s through 1960s, if played by a good/top amateur or pro,
in my opinion, would have been the stiff/extra stiff flex .294, not the .277[/u]. I am sure a
lot of club players and "regular" golfers of that era played the R shaft with .277
(some maybe even tipped).
[/quote]

Bella-[attachment=840326:VELD.JPG][attachment=840325:VELWB.JPG]

Thanks for the advice. Will be sending a set of [u].294s[/u] to Louisville Golf tomorrow for them to fit into my LH2Ws with the Eye-O-Matic Crown insert.

[Bella Woods]

rex235:

Are you going to have them refinish then too? They will
look beautiful! What "level" .294 shaft?

[rex235]

[quote name='Bella Woods' timestamp='1313441541' post='3489138']
rex235:

Are you going to have them refinish then too? They will
look beautiful! What "level" .294 shaft?
[/quote]

Yes. Louisville Golf is on for refinishing them.

Am more a fan to the dark cherry stain color as opposed to walnut, but I do appreciate the color of those refnished MacG TA 653s .

The Driver shaft we like is S400-
We've played very consistent golf with that flex in our other persimmons, so we are aiming there. They're in the box, and will be sent tomorrow.

[Chelanace]

Apex shafts, did in fact come taper tip. I have a few laying around.

[astamm8]

I have an Apex speedslot that is not a bore thru (if that helps identify it). Does anybody know if that is likely to be taper tip?

[astamm8]

[quote name='Chelanace' timestamp='1313667112' post='3498395']
Apex shafts, did in fact come taper tip. I have a few laying around.
[/quote]


Do you know the tip sizes and flexes of those Apexes?