New Review in on New Hogan Book!

[Schleeman]

Hey Guys and Gals,

 

Look at the new review just in on my book coming out October 6 2006!

 

Editorial Reviews

 

From Booklist

For golf geeks, the matter of Ben Hogan's "secret" has been a tantalizing mystery for more than 50 years. Did Hogan--perhaps the game's greatest shotmaker--really figure out the secret to the golf swing, and if so, what the heck is it? There have been many secret-finders over the years: Hogan himself revealed part of it in his classic Five Lessons (1957); then, more recently, Jody Vasquez, in Afternoons with Mr. Hogan (2004), divulged that, when he was shagging balls for the master in the 1960s, Hogan spilled all the beans: it's about the right knee and the left wrist. Yes, says Bertrand, who worked for years with Hogan protege John Schlee, knees and wrists play roles, but Hogan withheld the "missing link." Schlee knew it, though, and before succumbing to Alzheimer's, he passed it on to Bertrand: it's what the left elbow does on the downswing. Non-golfers will find this whole business incredibly silly, but the rest of us will be excused for looking at our left elbows with newfound respect. If you read golf instructionals, this one is a must. Bill Ott

Copyright © American Library Association. All rights reserved

 

Schleeman

 

 

[Ducky]

Pre-ordered and waiting for it to start shipping from Amazon.

 

:cheesy:

[jeffy]

I picked it up yesterday and skimmed through it. Bertrand's method includes a lot of one-plane fundamentals but a two-plane release: right elbow "diving" in front of the right hip and the clubface squared by an inward turning of the left elbow toward the left hip (allegedly, Hogan's untold "secret").

[Asleep]

I picked it up yesterday and skimmed through it. Bertrand's method includes a lot of one-plane fundamentals but a two-plane release: right elbow "diving" in front of the right hip and the clubface squared by an inward turning of the left elbow toward the left hip (allegedly, Hogan's untold "secret").

So you just "outed" Hogan's secret? :cheesy:

[Schleeman]

That's typically what people say.

Instead of 'how can I do that' they just say 'I can't do that.' No wonder Hogan hated to give lessons.

[taylormadefan]

That's typically what people say.

Instead of 'how can I do that' they just say 'I can't do that.' No wonder Hogan hated to give lessons.

 

Perhaps you can help us resolve something. Jim Hardy claims that Hogan's secret and the thing that finally fixed his hook was the position of the right elbow, namely "up and behind" which is the exact opposite of "right elbow "diving" in front of the right hip and the clubface squared by an inward turning of the left elbow toward the left hip."

 

I can definately do the former and the latter. When I do the latter, I either back out of the shot, flip the hands and hit a huge hook, or make horrible contact. :D

 

When I do the former (Hardy way), I make perfect contact, and hit a high straight shot. :cheesy:

 

How can you resolve two so seemingly different interpretations of "the secret?"

 

Thanks!

[Ducky]

Well, I'm still waiting for my copy to be delivered.

 

I have a question about the book.

 

Does it cover all of Ben Hogan's theories on the swing, or just the parts that were not covered in the Five Lessons book?

[Schleeman]

Perhaps this might help. The 'up and behind' I don't see Hogan advocating because he constantly stressed arms together, elbows as close as they can be throughout the swing.

The only way to get 'up and behind' is to allow the arms to separate. If the arms remain close together, the right elbow will point to the ground and create unity on the backswing.

If the body is turning properly, the arms are together properly,and the hands work properly through the impact area, with a stardard grip, the ball will hook. That's where grip adjustment comes in. Hogan told John that once you got the machine working the proper way, you only needed to tweek the "tool in the chuck".

The left elbow turning clears a path for the right side to fire, WITHOUT INTERFERENCE. No hitting against a firm left side. Just everything get out of the way because the right side is a commin. We do not want to hinder the right side, just guide it with the left. My system is very simple. The arms dictate the plane. the body spin dictates the power and the hands allow the release.

 

Most people can not put their arms together the way Hogan advocates, but they can learn if they are willing.

 

Ducky, I really don't rehash what Hogan says in Five Lessons. I refer back a number of times. It would get too boring, so I focused mainly on clarifying a few concepts and explaining in detail some of what people should feel and not what it may look like in pictures. Hogan esplained to John feelings that one gets when using the hands, arms and elbows properly. Pictures do not convey those feelings sometimes, so they are hard to recreate.

 

Later,

Tom B

[eddie3392]

Schleeman,

I have tried on many attempts to swing or attempt to swing with the lessons that Hogan mentions, but being a natural lefty and swing righty I seem to hook the ball when I let the right come through with all the power. I have always pulled with the left hand to start the downswing. I wanted to understand how Hogan was able to swing what seems like to me from way inside to square without hitting the dreaded HOOKS!. When I feel like I am swing with his method a lot of it makes sense but the hooks never leave. Just from experimenting with the right elbow I have found a way to eliminate most of the hook to a draw, but I would love to be able to apply my strenght and know it will not go left. Do you have any insight on what I might be doing wrong? I am a 4 handicap and I play a lot of tournaments and I want to learn to hit that small cut. Sorry for the novel.

[Asleep]

<---1966

[jeffy]

Snead also gets into that "right elbow behind" position, maybe even more so in his prime, and (according to biographer James Dodson) Hogan would say, privately and after a few drinks, that Snead had the best swing.

[Asleep]

<---1958

[jeffy]

<---1958

 

Beautiful!!!

[rok78]

Great pics Asleep! Where can I get me some of that?

[taylormadefan]

Great pics Asleep! Where can I get me some of that?

 

Ron Watt's Historic Golf Photos!

[taylormadefan]

Looks like he's pulling his elbow back on the takeaway just as Hardy advocates....

 

I think the action of the elbow son the downswing might be the crux of this argument. :D

[eddie3392]

Looking at these photos it almost seems as if they maintain that right wrist set from beginning to impact. I know that is a little off of the subject but from all photos from both guys it not only shows similar elbow postitions but it really looks like their right wrist stays constant throughout the swing. Am I crazy?

[taylormadefan]

 

I see...

 

 

:cheesy:

 

BINGO! :D

[Schleeman]

You guys just make me laugh.

These photos are from John Andrisani's book 'Hogan' and they don't prove anything. I can find photos of Hogan with his right foot on the ground at impact but that doesn't mean it was a full swing or that he kept the lower body quiet throughout the downswing.

Forgive me, but I believe what was handed down to me through Schlee. You guys can analyze pictures and believe what you want, and make your own assumptions. All I have to say is Hogan couldn't swing the way he wanted too because of his accident and that's why he didn't like people commenting on his swing as the be all-end all. He felt there was a better way and wanted to keep searching.

Wasn't it Hogan who said, "Everyday I try to learn something new about golf." Well everyday I try to convey something about Hogan and his thoughts on the golf swing to whoever will listen. If you have any questions fire away.

 

Later,

Tom B

[hayam]

Thank you Tom for sharing your insight. I would love to own one of this book. Because I believe it will be a true classic. How many pages is this book? Who Wrote this book and is it possible you can Post the Introduction for this book? Does this book also cover the informations in the 5 fundamentals of golf and power golf or a totally different book? Do you think this book is a complete manual enough for people to swing like hogan? Lastly, Are there nice pictures in this book or just illustration?

 

There is a very nice Home video of Hogan In Lynnblakegolf.com Free for all to download, Hogan even did his swing at 1/10th of the speed and therefore you can see a little more clearly his intent.

[jeffy]

You guys just make me laugh.

 

 

I'm glad that we have brightened your day!

[Asleep]

You guys just make me laugh.

The.. photos ... they don't prove anything. I can find photos of Hogan with his right foot on the ground at impact but that doesn't mean it was a full swing or that he kept the lower body quiet throughout the downswing....

The origin of photos is watermarked.

 

They were not posted to either prove or disprove your book's theory, which I have not read and do not know.

 

They were posted because the thread was about Hogan, then Snead---not to incite a defensive reaction from anyone.

 

If you feel their presence in this (your) thread harms you or your book sales, I'll gladly delete the posts.

[jeffy]

I'm having hard time finding pictures of Hogan's swing before the car accident. Does anyone know where the pictures are? I'm trying to see if there's drastic difference in his swing, particularly his elbows placement before and after car accident ala keeping the elbows as close to each other as possible as Tom B suggested we do...

 

Found some at www.golfresearch.com. Here's the link:

 

http://www.golfresearch.com/Hogan/vintagehogan.html

 

I don't see the elbows being squeezed together all that much. Hogan's right elbow does get shoved in front of the right hip, just as Hardy says it did before he found the "secret". It's very interesting that Hogan taught Schlee his "old" two-plane release, yet he played his best golf using a one-plane release, as did Snead, who always used a one-plane release. Also, Hardy discussed swing theory with Hogan and, of course, he teaches a one-plane release. I'd love to know if this aspect was something they talked about.

[Ducky]

Someone make Jim Hardy spill the beans on his encounters with Ben Hogan.

 

:D

[Asleep]

Link to an earlier Hogan series......

 

<--- click on the pic

[jeffy]

Another pre-accident sequence: both face-on and down-the-line...

 

http://www.brianmanzella.com/forum/showthread.php?t=7184

[Asleep]

Another pre-accident sequence: both face-on and down-the-line...

 

http://www.brianmanzella.com/forum/showthread.php?t=7184

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[Schleeman]

Remember, Hogan continued to search for new and better ways to swing the golf club, but always felt that the arms close together was key. Even in Andrisani"s book The Hogan Way page 58, he quotes LPGA teaching professional Debbie Rivers encounter with Hogan at Shady Oaks, "Address the ball with the elbows close together."

One can not be consistently accurate unless the arms work together as a unit.

 

Tom B

[dodger]

I saw a clinic by John Mahaffey and Ken Venturi in the late 70's, after Mahaffey won the PGA. Mahaffey credited Hogan with teaching him to swing with the arms close together and the elbows facing the hips at address. He specifically said this came from Hogan. I just got a copy of this book and think it is a good read. Schlee was an innovative instructor. I have his Maximum Golf and think it is a good source as well. Anything that develops new theories is a positive as far as I am concerned. Schleeman should be congratulated for sharing Schlee's thoughts. Also, Schlee published his book in the mid-eighties, while Hogan was still active. If he had exaggerated anything, Hogan would have sued him. The fact that he never contradicted this book's instructions supports the books premise.

[Schleeman]

Thanks Dodger,

 

John Schlee was a man ahead of his time. I feel honored to be one who spent so much time with him.