Playing Hickory Golf

[HoldenCornfield]

[quote name='majic' timestamp='1434200431' post='11744040']
I agree Stix. If it is a good head weight so the swing weight is ok I would have it done. Fit one of my shafts and you will have a good club
[/quote]

I'll add this: when I replaced some of my old hickory shafts with Tad's it added several swing weight points to each. I didn't bother to weigh them, old vs new, but the newer one must have a higher moisture content.

[Woodridge]

For those near WI, there is an event on June 27th in Green Lake. I also got an email from the organizer with the rest of the summer schedule posted below. Let me know if you are interested and I'll pass on the contact info. Doc was fine with me posting the email in here.


[i]Hello everyone,[/i]
[i]I hope the start to your summer is going well and you are getting back into season form.[/i]
[i]It sounded like a good time was had by all at Whistling Straits, and Greg had a great start to WHG’s inaugural Gutty event.[/i]
[i]I wanted to get another email out regarding the 3rd leg of the WHG’s series .[/i]
[i]We have 12 signed up to date for Tuscumbia, but I know we can get more.[/i]
[i]If you’ve already contacted me, thank you.[/i]
[i]If you haven’t yet, look at your calendar. If June 27th is open, come and join us.[/i]
[i]It will be a full day of golf, food and camaraderie (if you don’t want to play in both of the events, come join us for one).[/i]
[i]Please RSVP by June 20th, so I can confirm the #’s for the golf course and restaurant.[/i]

[i]Also, make room in your schedule for:[/i]
[i]1) Cherokee Challenge - July 11th[/i]
[i]2) Thornberry Creek Charity Challenge – August 22nd[/i]
[i]3) Wisconsin Hickory Open (Kummel Cup) – September 17-19[/i]

[i]I look forward to seeing everyone soon.[/i]

[i]Your friend in hickory golf.[/i]

[i]'Doc'[/i]

[ebeer]

Not much hickory posting, everyone must be out playing - I know I was

Played my home course, and found myself just out of the fairway with a nice 160yd approach on the first hole. Reaching into my bag I found my mashie was missing (I had taken it out of the bag to compare lofts against a recent acquisition and apparently left it on the workbench). No big deal, I still had 9 clubs to play with and figured it would be a good opportunity practice new shots. On my home course I rarely play the white tees but that's where my playing partners were so I played along. As luck would have, a high percentage of approache shots called for my mashie (thank you Mr. Murphy). I typically hit my mashie niblick 130-150, my mashie 150-170, and jigger 170-180. So the missing mashie left a sizable gap. I know from past experience that trying squeeze distance from mashie niblick through brute force can have disastrous potential. I opted to choke down heavily on my jigger, but for me this is one of the harder clubs to lay off distance. And unfortunately many of the aprons on my course are over-run with kikuya (or as as I like to say "ki-screw-ya"). This made playing low running shots really difficult. All said I got better at a 150-160 "choke down three quarter jigger" and am happy to know I can play that shot if necessary - I just have to be happy with a longer putt or green side chip.

I suppose this is one of the aspects I find most appealing about hickory play, the need to invent shots and to expand your quiver of options. This makes me feel much more part of the game, that I have more influence on the outcome, and am ultimately more fulfilled after a round. Even when these shots don't work out, it's a still a learning experience and fun to try something out of the norm.

[majic]

Some of us are in the way to the Belvedere Open in Michigan. Playing my way up.

[ebeer]

[quote name='majic' timestamp='1434509982' post='11766522']
Some of us are in the way to the Belvedere Open in Michigan. Playing my way up.
[/quote]

Good luck Tad! Looks like a great event, I'll look for updates on SoHG.

[CanadianCrippler]

Good day all. This is my first post on a Hickory site and I am doing so due to a recent acquisition of some vintage hickory clubs among others. I do not collect them and plan to sell, however I am not sure about values.

I would be happy to first list them on this forum or in the classified section of WRX versus putting onto the Bay, but want to get a fair price for them. From what I can tell, the shafts are nice and straight and most all are complete. I know I have a putter that dates 100 years old and a number of other putters and clubs.

If you have some experience with values, PM me and I will put the list together, pictures too as it makes sense.


Thanks!

CC

[majic]

The winner of the Belvedere Hickory Open is Cliff Martin from LosAngeles
Fantastic golf on one of the best hickory venues we play. 70-73 a one under for two days. I think closest competitor was 10 behind. Wow!!! Some great golf. [attachment=2817834:ImageUploadedByGolfWRX Mobile1434974598.753556.jpg]

[Kirasdad]

Yahoo for SoCal!

Congratulations Cliff. That is truly wonderful golf.

[bajadulce]

Yes, fantastic shooting by Cliff. -1 for 36 holes is golfing your ball!

@ way to go representing California/SoCal:
I don't know Cliff as he's only played in one West Coast event (the 2013 California Hickory Open) according to his record and didn't get a chance to meet w/ him that day. He has never attended any of the North-South tournaments at Pacific Grove a few miles up the road or last year's CA Open, No Pacific Hickory Cup, Gearhart, nor SFrancisco Hickory Open. Never played in any of our NorCal events. So I'm wondering what's up? Are we playing too pedestrian of courses? Pacific Grove Muni - San Clemente Muni - Meadowlark - Sharp Park etc? Not good enough (competition)? I consider Ken Holtz's tournament in Arizona as a west coast event as well.. not there either?

Maybe someone who knows the guy can ask him next month in Dayton or possibly at Mid Pines or even Carnoustie, why he hasn't attended any of our events on the west coast... cause I have a genuine interest in knowing what Eddie and the rest of us need to do differently to appeal to these dedicated hickory players.

... Are you going to play in San Clemente this year John? That can't be more than an hour drive from Pasadena?

hoping you guys have a fantastic summer!
hope to see you SoCal boys in November in SanClemente too!
Steve

[Kirasdad]

Yes, I will be at San Clemente for sure. I would love to go to the North/South but the dates Eddie has just don't work for me. I have an ongoing event every summer on that weekend that is run by an old friend and I am paid well to be there so I can't really skip it. It's too bad for Eddie works his tail off to promote hickory golf in SoCal and I want to support him in any way I can. Maybe the dates will shift on one of these things next year and I will be able to make it.

Cliff is a nice guy, if email is any judge. I have not met him, well at least that I am aware of, but I have emailed with him several times, He is very cordial. I try to play in one major event a year, and early on I may have run across him, but I didn't know he was from LA so I did not make his acquaintence. I do know he belongs to Bel Air CC. That is largely a show business kind of club so he probably has some sort of studio/network gig, which by definition means he's really busy and probably has to pick and choose his events carefully.

I am thinking about trying to play at Gearheart. Trying to work out the schedule and make it fit. Steve do you know how many they are expecting to play, or anything about the course?

[ebeer]

[quote name='Kirasdad' timestamp='1435076791' post='11819040']
do you know how many they are expecting to play, or anything about the course?
[/quote]

Gearhart is a really fun course. It's not long, plays in links style, and has some nasty bunkers with some challenging holes. Particularly #18, even from the white tees is a very long 5 par with big uphill climb to the green. My favorite part about this course is location. There are no ocean facing holes, but course is very near the ocean and plays like a traditional Scottish links. This is reinforced by Oregon weather, cold, damp, and foggy. Best of all is Gearhart is destination golf, with lots of lodging in walking distance from the clubhouse. Oh and did I mention the clubhouse? It's been converted to a McMenamin's hotel. For the uninitiated, McMenamin's is an Oregon brewery and was the first to capitalize on the beer tourism revolution. In one building you'll find the hotel, the pro shop, a restaurant, outdoor elevated patio viewing #18 green and three bars! As far as traveling for golf, this is about as convenient as it gets. If you don't stay in the hotel, there are condos for rent right across the street. All are a 10min walk to the beach for sunset strolls and razor clams. I had a blast at this event last year and would be there is a heartbeat if the tournament wasn't the week before USHO in Dayton.

Photos from last year's event in Gearhart [url="http://www.norcalhickory.com/gallery/album.php?album_id=9"]here[/url].

[majic]

North South if in July might attract more to a great venue. Cliff plays in SoHG events and needs points to qualify for an International match. I am pretty sure he played in North South.
I don't know if I have the answer but re West Coast guys need to help promote amongst themselves as well as look at the SoHG events. Some SoHG guys would love to come to North South but Belvedere was last week.

[bajadulce]

I think it's fantastic that Cliff plays in these international point events and more-than-a-day's-drive-in-the-car destinations. And I hope he continues and wish him the best luck. If I had the financial means to do the same, I'd be right there as well. At the same time, you should support your home region to some degree.

Documentation is a little buried, but If one looks hard enough you can find records of who attended what. Eddie holds 2 annual events (North-South in NorCal and California Hickory Open in SoCal). Cliff has never attended any of the North-Souths and only the one Cal Open in So Cal. We here in NorCal hold 2 events as well (Apple City and San Francisco Open). We're more of a regional group and small family of friends so I don't include our events in the mix. But we do exist.

[quote][color=#282828] West Coast guys need to help promote amongst themselves[/color][/quote]You're preaching to the choir on this one. We have 4 distinct groups here on the West Coast (APNational, NWHickory, NorCal Hickory, and PacificCoastHickory). I do everything I can to help promote the other 3 and round up as many players as I can for their events. We advertise their events on our site, I print out applications to hand out to our guys, add applications to our newsletter, give full admin access to the other groups so they have access to our contact list, have an open community forum where any one of them can advertise, engage in conversation, etc. We're about as liberal and open arms as can be. For whatever reason, there seems to be competition between the groups however, which I don't understand.

John, Gearhart is a neat course. They have removed something like 1500+ trees in a recent renovation in an attempt to restore it to it's original pre-1900 concept. I really enjoy width when I play hickory more than anything else (i'd rather play on 50+ yard wide fairways with crappy greens than 30 yard tree lined with 4" rough and Augusta-like roll on my 20 foot putts any day!).

Not to get off on a tangent, but what did you hickory golfers think of this year's USOpen? It had width, it had firm and fast, lacked trees, kickboards, crazy undulating greens as would be expected 100 years ago to emulate speed. A bit too much real estate and over-the-top in terms of mounding and dirt moved, but pretty darn hickory friendly in a lot of aspects. Maybe too much "bling" for me tho.

~ have a great summer and hope to tee it up w/ some of you here soon!

[TimV]

Question -
I go online and see groups and tournaments for Hickory players. Is there anything similar for Pre-80 Vintage players? If so, I couldn't find it.

[oldschoolrocker]

A sad thing, but No Tim. At least not that I have found.

[Woodridge]

Cliff Martin seems like a good dude.



http://www.hickorygolfers.com/lovely-belvedere-a-treat-for-las-cliff-martin_2513_a.aspx

A word with the champion
Mr. Cliff Martin, who is a member of the Bel-Air Country Club of Los Angeles, felt the golf bug in 1985 when he discovered the famous series of golf instructionals made by Bobby Jones Jr. “I watched those tapes from start to finish and I try to keep that visual image ingrained in my mind,” he said.

During one of his occasional visits to St. Andrews, Scotland, Mr. Martin saw an advertisement for the Kingarrock Golf Course, a 9-hole hickory-only course on the grounds of a former estate in nearby Cupar. He went out with six clubs, shot a 36, repeated that during a follow-up visit the next year and was in love with hickories.

He had hoped to compete in several hickory outings in 2014, but needed time to recuperate from a neck surgery. Now, in 2015, he hopes to carry through on the plan. Mr. Martin had heard and read about the Belvedere Hickory Open and put it on his itinerary. He brought his 6-year-old son, his mother, and the boy’s nanny along to make the Charlevoix trip a family outing. They took great pleasure in the many wonders of the Charlevoix area as well as Mackinac Island.

“You would not see me swimming,” he said, “but we enjoyed seeing the clearest water anywhere as well as the green woods, and sunsets, and boats – there is just a great vibe to the whole area.”

The golf course, he said, “was a delight. It fit my eye and made sense the way the layout was designed,. The green complexes were interesting, you could put yourself into some really bad places. The whole experience was wonderful and the staff could not have been nicer.

“I will make every effort to return next year to defend the title. I’ll bring my son again and try to come earlier to take in more of the area.”

Mr. Martin often tees it up with some of the California hickory groups, and estimates he uses his hickory clubs about 70 percent of the time. He says he is working on fellow Bel-Air members to give it a try, but the going is slow for now.

The clubs in his bag are mostly modern replicas, which he prefers to travel with, saying he is loathe to put his originals through the dubious baggage practices of modern airports. But there is a mixture of originals that he enjoys. “My putter is an old Spalding and my favorite bulldog is a Wilsonian that I hit as well or better than any reproduction club.”

[Bella Woods]

I met Cliff Martin at Tads Birmingham Alabama event and also talked with
him a bit at the Belvedere welcome reception. He is a nice guy, very down
to earth.

Baja - he did have neck surgery last year - I am sure that got in the way
of golf........

[bajadulce]

oooooo neck surgery? Ouch. I never doubted he was a nice guy. I'm sure he's a super guy and a gentlemen in every respect. That's exactly why I'm so interested in finding out who he is and find out how we can attract him to occasional play in one of our less prestigious West coast events.

No comments on Chambers bay from the hickory group? USGA? Mike Davis? I've heard all from the modern Wrxer's, was really hoping to read from the hickory perspective. Obviously the sheer size of the place and the site itself (reclaimed quarry and how much dirt had to be moved) is about as far away from the courses of the hickory era as one can get (well maybe TPC - The Players and Whistling Straits are further!), but it displayed a few hickory elements I thought. Or maybe I was one of the gullible and bought what Davis and USGA were selling.

Tad,
A fellow club member is now converted to hickory and he just bought a 32 degree mashie from you (Willy Schlick). The grip on this thing is incredibly tacky! I know you've written before how to attain this tackyness, but was curious of the technique again. Products and brands of pine tar etc? Or perhaps it is the type of leather that is more important than the conditioning?

[Kirasdad]

I thought the US Open at Chambers Bay was really cool. Loved the course look and the "along the ground" nature of play. At the proper length (as hard and fast as it was, probably 6400-6500) I think it would be great for hickory. The comments on the other side of golfwrx are predictably brutal mostly it seems because it "looked funny" and the ball took odd bounces. Our country is fixated on target golf being the only true way to play whereas the opposite is actually the case, if one looks at the history of golf.

Who said a golf course always has to be green?

[Blade Junkie]

Steve, I also thought that Chambers Bay was fantastic. From the moment McIlroy started charging, that final round was possibly the most exciting golf I have ever seen in any tournament anywhere. Yes they had a problem with the greens, but we still had a 64, two 65s, a handful of 66s over the four days, plus Oosthuizen shooting 29 on the back nine. And that last round .. just WOW ! First McIlroy contending and getting within two of the lead, then Adam Scott coming through, little charges from Snedeker and Schwartzel, the ebb and flow all round between Spieth, Johnson and Grace, Jason Day trying to hang in there despite obvious discomfort, the young Aussie lad Cameron Smith making Eagle on the last to soar into the top four, Louis O birdieing six of the last seven holes, and the drama and interplay between Spieth and Johnson on 17 and 18. So many stories and such brilliant stuff !!!

There was actually a hickory event played there on the last day before they closed the course for the US Open, which they played at 5510 yards.


A few pics at this link ---> [url="http://apnationalgolfclub.com/chambers-bay-hickory-championship/"]http://apnationalgol...y-championship/[/url]

Plus the original flyer for the event here --> [url="http://apnationalgolfclub.com/the-open-before-the-open-chambers-bay-hickory-open-championship-sunday-may-24th/"]http://apnationalgol...unday-may-24th/[/url]


I hope they repeat that !

A hickory event at Chambers Bay, plus the 4 rounds at Bandon Dunes ... now that would make a great 'North West' golf vacation week ! On my bucket list anyway

[Blade Junkie]

On the subject of Cliff Martin - nice guy and great player!

He made the final group at the WHO last year and was marking Sandy Lyle's scorecard in the final round.

I saw him close up in a four ball betterball as part of the International Match afterwards. Cliff and Ben's dad Joe bested Joe Smith and I by 2&1. Both of them hit it miles and we were typically 30 to 40 yards behind them off the tee. We did well to run them close, as they were a few under gross combined, and about +2 each individually. Cliff was hitting a modern reproduction driver made in Canada, with some sort of black insert in it. He took one look at my poor little Gibson driver with the face all bashed in and advised me to get one with an insert lol.

Even with the neck problems he played great. I hope his Op went well and fixed the problem for him. Scary stuff what he was having done !


Final trivia point - he actually played in the British Amateur Championship a few years back, which is further evidence of his quality as a player

[majic]

Cliff is a great person and a wonderful player and ambassador for hickory golf.
Regarding the clubs he often travels with and had at Belvedere his irons were the Star OA irons. Again this great blade wins.
For hose of you that prefer antique clubs look for the MacGregor irons in the OA series and Popular numbered set with the flanged soles or the almost identical Gibson Star Maxwell or Momac? Series with nice flanged soles. Both sets were produced starting around 1917 and are nearly identical. Both MacGregor and Gibson made great shafts.
My grips are hand wrapped with the finest leather and cost double what anyone else uses. Always tacky and for life if taken care.
To put tack into a cut leather or other leather I found a method that does pretty well. Buy Swedish pine tar or Easton pine tar. Best you can afford. Mix with Brampton grip solvent. Mix well. Rub this mixture into the leather. Let it sit for 1 hour. Go back over. Let it sit overnight. From that point on use Lexol in brown spray bottle available at car parts supply stores or Walmart to clean grips. Spray on and wipe and let it dry.

[HoldenCornfield]

[quote name='Bella Woods' timestamp='1435180682' post='11828184']
I met Cliff Martin at Tads Birmingham Alabama event and also talked with
him a bit at the Belvedere welcome reception. He is a nice guy, very down
to earth.

[/quote]

+1, I met him on the range at B'ham. Good guy.

[majic]

I now have the "new" J Victor East designed Bobby Jones reproductions in stock. We made this set for years but I decided to improve them. They always have been and still are one piece heads so they can be bent. Only made one year by Spalding and those are very expensive I tried to improve my product and these heads are the result. Great playing. Numbers and four degrees loft club spacing from 1-9 and Niblick
Place your orders soon. [attachment=2830974:ImageUploadedByGolfWRX Mobile1435667761.582676.jpg][attachment=2830976:ImageUploadedByGolfWRX Mobile1435667800.304336.jpg][attachment=2830978:ImageUploadedByGolfWRX Mobile1435667823.485165.jpg]

[majic]

[attachment=2830980:ImageUploadedByGolfWRX Mobile1435667925.218934.jpg]
Victor face

[Blade Junkie]

Look very nice Tad - what did you change ?

[majic]

Greater attention was paid to the leading edge and sole width with improved rinsing masters and highlighted importance on this. Top line thickness was made consistent and some head sizes improved as the original masters I was not totally happy with. I have tested these and like them very much and highly suggest them for people that want an adjustable head, consistent 4 degree gaps and great feel.

[BIG STU]

[quote name='Kirasdad' timestamp='1435196866' post='11829806']
I thought the US Open at Chambers Bay was really cool. Loved the course look and the "along the ground" nature of play. At the proper length (as hard and fast as it was, probably 6400-6500) I think it would be great for hickory. The comments on the other side of golfwrx are predictably brutal mostly it seems because it "looked funny" and the ball took odd bounces. Our country is fixated on target golf being the only true way to play whereas the opposite is actually the case, if one looks at the history of golf.

Who said a golf course always has to be green?
[/quote]I liked it myself It reminded me of some of the public courses I grew up playing on. Not perfect greens and not perfect fairways plenty of shot options. I think those guys have been spoiled and pampered too much with almost perfect conditions. I laughed at the ones that were crying like my old man used to say "Shut your pie hole and play everyone is playing the same course"

[Woodridge]

Last Saturday, I played in the WI hickory group outing in Green Lake, WI. It was played at Tuscambia Country Club, built in 1896 and listed as WI oldest golf course. It was a 27 holes event, with the first 9 being Gutty golf and following a break for lunch, the afternoon round of 18 holes was post 1900 golf. I missed the gutty golf because I had a 4 hour drive, but arrived just in time for lunch. There were 12 players total, most from WI, but 3 of us drove up from IL. It was a perfect day to play and a grand group of guys. My golf was less than stellar as my putter let me down to the tune of 6 to 8 putts missed under 5 feet. Afterwards, we had a nice prime rib dinner some good conversation. Next time, I think I would go up the night before because it was a very long day for me. I left around 6:30am and didn't arrive home until after 10pm. Still, it was well worth it as the course and companionship were top notch.

Next up for me is the Heart of America event in Des Moines, IA which starts next Friday. I'll try and take some pictures of the event to post.

[Bella Woods]

Woodridge:

Sounds like a good time in Wisconsin, good group of people there.

Have fun at the Heart of America - that's one of the tournaments I would
really like to play in but have not at this point.

I have the U.S. Hickory Open in a couple of weeks.