Playing Hickory Golf

[Jiggered]

You've lost me now Chris, what if the grain had already been so aligned?

 

Does Ebeers explanation cover it? We are talking grain in the shaft here which can be manipulated/ set through every degree on the compass, not the grain in the club head.

 

Thanks Chris & ebeer, yes I see what you're saying now, and also Bella's tip is a good one.

 

 

We need to get that hickory club building & restoration idea up and running!

I've had a bit of an idea on that, if we can't get a sub-forum created, I'll post it in the thread.

[ebeer]

My method is to create an epoxy sleeve covering about 1 1/2" (3/4" each way) over the meeting of the shaft and neck.

It is under the whipping and filed down smooth. I have not measured the effect, but it seems to cut down the torque of

a wood as shots are much more accurate and misses are the result of me only......

 

Edit:

 

If you don't file/sand the tip of the hosel to micro thin where it meets the shaft (maybe a 1/16" thick at that point) it helps too.

The epoxy sleeve kind of acts like a ferrule covering the joining section of the wood head and shaft.

 

Hey Bella, I've done the same "sleeve" method to strengthen parts of the shaft that have been split. For small splits I use Titebond in the split area itself, then create the sleeve with one wrap of loose weave fiberlass cloth which holds the epoxy very well....then I sand down as you describe. Do you use something similar, or just wait until the epoxy gets thick before applying directly to shaft?

[Bella Woods]

Erik

 

I use the Golfsmith 5 minute Tour Van Epoxy, coat it on thick and file down when dry/cured.

 

Attached below is a pic (not a very good one) of a sleeve on a 1932 Spalding Robert T. Jones, Jr.

Cushion Neck 2 wood. Its not filed/sanded all the way down yet - just rough. This is a retrofit wood.

 

I spoke with Dave Wood about what I was doing and torque in general relating to hickory shafted woods,

he thought it would have a positive effect in relation to reducing torque.

 

 

[ebeer]

OK, that makes sense...I was using slow cure epoxy, waiting a while for it to stiffen up a bit then using the cloth to keep it from dripping. I think the 5min stuff will be much easier to work with. Assume you're sanding down to 1/16" or less?

[Bella Woods]

OK, that makes sense...I was using slow cure epoxy, waiting a while for it to stiffen up a bit then using the cloth to keep it from dripping. I think the 5min stuff will be much easier to work with. Assume you're sanding down to 1/16" or less?

 

I keep it as thick as I can without it being obvious under the whipping, you can also double whip both ends of

the sleeve to hide the edges if necessary.

[Bella Woods]

While we are on the subject, a little over a year ago I converted Randy Jensen's hickory shaft flex chart

(the one in his book) to True Temper Dynamic Gold flexes - X flex through Senior flex (ladies flex can be

interpolated). Such as S-500, S-400, S-300, S-200, S-100 etc.

 

Using a frequency analyzer on the hickory shafts has been an eye opener, and the converted chart really

lets you fine tune the hickory shaft flex. Found about five 90 year old shafts in true X flex amoung the clubs

I had bought as possible players along the way.....

 

I am convinced that a lot of hickory players are probably playing shafts that are to "soft", and accuracy/distance

is suffering as a result, and a stiffer shaft cuts down on torque. Have been tweeking my own play set to S-500

and it is working out well.

[majic]

Stix if you look at a Danga shaft the grain is vertical. Not horizontal??

[majic]

A new TMHC driver shaft S flex is around 10 degrees torque. I feel torque is a good thing in hickory play

[stixman]

Stix if you look at a Danga shaft the grain is vertical. Not horizontal??

 

I don't have a Danga wood shaft to look at at present but I'm sure you are right.

Regarding torque, I never gave any thought to that factor in Danga wood. The only D.W. clubs I had were putters and the Dominie Sanders (x2), where the swing speed was too low for torque to be a factor.

Geoff has a D.W. Driver, a thing of great beauty, he would be able to comment on torque more than I..

[jbucher]

Today I finally took the refurbished Bur key built hickory irons out for some fun. The bur keys have a lighter SW compared to my Louisville irons so I wasn't sure what to expect. The course is a par 28 @ 1366 yards. First hole is the only par 4 @280 yards and the rest par 3's ranging from 100 yards to 172 so its a good little par 3 course. I enjoyed playing them and had solid contact 90 % of the time with them. Really never went all out swinging with them. First trip around was + 4 with 2 birdies and 3 three putts. second trip was +3 and 2 three putts. Happy with the clubs and the work that had gone into back to playable condition.

Last weekend was a round with the AP National group at a local private country club with very fast greens. The rest of the course was a muddy quagmire, no roll. Seattle area has had a very wet winter. shot an 88 there and not disappointed since that was the first time playing the place. I would really like to go back and play it again when it's dry and with some course familiarity.

Having fun with the tree branches, Jimmy B

[stixman]

A new TMHC driver shaft S flex is around 10 degrees torque. I feel torque is a good thing in hickory play

 

I was saying earlier that I'm not an engineer and would not know how to measure torque in a shaft. Assessing the torque in an old shaft is, for me, a subjective way of determining if a shaft is tired

 

It seems to me that when you measure the stiffness of a hickory shaft on a Frequency Analyser it is necessary to align the shaft correctly to get a meaningful result to compare with other shafts. It would follow that if you aligned the shaft 90 degrees out you would get a result somewhat less than the former result.

My question is, is there any correlation between those two measurements in one shaft which when compared with those same measurements in another shaft would give you a comparison of the relative torque measurements in the two shafts. If so,you could create an index. Could this be a quantitive way of measuring a 'tired' shaft and a new one, or a poor quality shaft with a good one?

Please feel free to say 'No. Chris, that is fanciful rubbish'.

[jonnygrouville]

There has only been one hickory club I have tried which I couldn't use because the shaft was too whippy. Being too light is the most common cause of an unplayable club for me. Flex can generally find a way of playing them, just not going at it as hard or playing for more right to left.

 

Torque is a big deal. You can put a surprising amount of stress across the shaft, but off-centre strikes, when it starts twisting, can go anywhere.

 

[Subsonic]

Played Schoolhouse 9 for my first round of hickory Golf. First Ball was a 35 and the second ball was a 40. Not too far off from my scores with modern equipment. Had a blast!

[Jiggered]

Had a great time at the Welsh Hickory Open, but played like a complete knob.

 

Weather was perfect, a sunny day with little wind and the course was a delight so am embarrassed to say I could only score 18 points. (Must learn not to take on shots that I'd struggle to hit with my modern clubs.)

 

Thanks to Geoff for the kind loan of a 4 iron to complete my set, managed a few decent shots with it.

 

 

First jobs now I'm back are to extend my putter by an inch or two and hunt down a decent mashie. Roll on the next outing.

[jonnygrouville]

Splendid. Hope to make it over there one of these days.

 

[Blade Junkie]

Had a great time at the Welsh Hickory Open, but played like a complete knob.

 

Weather was perfect, a sunny day with little wind and the course was a delight so am embarrassed to say I could only score 18 points. (Must learn not to take on shots that I'd struggle to hit with my modern clubs.)

 

Thanks to Geoff for the kind loan of a 4 iron to complete my set, managed a few decent shots with it.

 

 

First jobs now I'm back are to extend my putter by an inch or two and hunt down a decent mashie. Roll on the next outing.

 

Good to meet you Nick and stick at it ! You've got some decent iron clubs, albeit needing a Mashie, but those woods are too light, and too short. Keep an eye out for a Brassie at 42-43", and with a swingweight at least C9.

 

It was a strange scenario I thought ... perfect weather ... hardly any wind, sun out, greens OK enough .. and yet the scoring in the main was below what you might expect. Best scratch score was 82, and best Stableford 35 points, when you'd think a 75-77 and 40-42 points would have been possible by someone !

 

The main issue for me was the amount of recent rainfall which had left the course very wet, bunkers full of water, and very little run on the fairways, so playing "long" for hickory clubs that need a bit of run.

 

Personally, I played awful on the front nine (10 points, hooking everything, especially off the tee, lots of sideways hacks out of deep rough etc etc), but managed to find some of my game on the back, with only one bad hole on the par-5 13th, when I hit a good drive down the middle of the fairway, but then topped my driver off the deck into a huge puddle straddling the fairway, which stopped it dead. I hooked the third into a bunker that was 90% full of water and unfortunately had to then drop onto a down slope in the bunker that left me trying to play a plugged ball from two feet below my feet. So the bad hole was down to poor course management and shot execution. Would still have had 18 points on the back had I not missed from 18 inches on the 17th green, a straight uphill putt that I underhit allowing the ball to break right at the hole (where it is sometimes slightly raised from when they cut the hole and pull out the turf).

 

The good players thought the greens were too bumpy but I thought they putted OK. I missed a couple of short ones, but only the golfer was culpable for those :)

 

The new 12th hole is a cracker - playing about 150 yards to a raised plateau green - beach (OOB) to the right, steep bank to the left. I hit my Mashie tee shot too low, and pulled it as well, so was down the bank about pin high (from my stance I couldn't even see the top of the flag) but flopped it to a foot and holed the putt. That was my first par of the round ... on the bloody 12th LOL. That's how bad the front nine was !

[jonnygrouville]

Shame. You're normally in the prizes somehow eh?!

 

Links fairways, the "intentional" top can work like a charm. Not if there are big puddles around by the sounds of things...

 

[stixman]

A couple of interesting hickories have crossed my path in the last couple of weeks, both sourced from Ebay at a sensible price.

 

The first is a driver with sole-plate and is stamped Jas Anderson. Now I already have a driver of his in my play set and it goes so well that a prominent Scottish member of the BGCS condemned it (and me) as a 'cheat-stick' believing it to be retro-shafted. That it isn't you will just have to take my word. However, I never found out who 'Jas Anderson was, clearly not the Anstruthers, it's a late 1920s club. So look at the first image and you will wonder what I'm blethering about, it's even stamped 'L', indicating a ladies club.

 

 

So, look at the second image and marvel at the face of this club. It's a millimeter shy of 1.5 inches and has the shape of a 1950s club.and sits flush square. This is the Grail of hickory driver hunting. The shaft will come out and be replaced by a full length Tad shaft, stiff of course, and it will become a hickory bomber fully meeting the requirements of the 'Original Hickory' brigade.

Question, shall I go the extra mile and fit an insert?

 

 

 

 

 

Finally there is a late scare-neck spoon, virtually unhit, sits beautifully, hits better....and look at that carbon in the face. Nice , or what? Oh and Swing weight, an untampered D2.

 

[Blade Junkie]

Links fairways, the "intentional" top can work like a charm. Not if there are big puddles around by the sounds of things...

 

Think of those second world war movies where the resistance stretch a wire across the road between a couple of trees, and along comes the German motorcyle rider .... well this shot pulled up a bit like that :)

[Blade Junkie]

Finally there is a late scare-neck spoon, virtually unhit, sits beautifully, hits better....and look at that carbon in the face. Nice , or what? Oh and Swing weight, an untampered D2.

 

I think I have one that is a bit like that somewhere, though I must confess I actually thought it was stained with spilt motor oil from having been left too long in a disorderly garage or shed !

[Jiggered]

The first is a driver with sole-plate and is stamped Jas Anderson. Now I already have a driver of his in my play set and it goes so well that a prominent Scottish member of the BGCS condemned it (and me) as a 'cheat-stick' believing it to be retro-shafted. That it isn't you will just have to take my word. However, I never found out who 'Jas Anderson was, clearly not the Anstruthers, it's a late 1920s club. So look at the first image and you will wonder what I'm blethering about, it's even stamped 'L', indicating a ladies club.

 

 

Might it be Joe Anderson (or Jos) of Perth, the signature looks very like one I saw on a putter of his recently. (OK Brand)

[jonnygrouville]

The first putt I hit on grainy greens pulled up like that. Slightly uphill, into the grain, pulled up like it had hit a tiny invisible Spanish village.

 

[stixman]

The first is a driver with sole-plate and is stamped Jas Anderson. Now I already have a driver of his in my play set and it goes so well that a prominent Scottish member of the BGCS condemned it (and me) as a 'cheat-stick' believing it to be retro-shafted. That it isn't you will just have to take my word. However, I never found out who 'Jas Anderson was, clearly not the Anstruthers, it's a late 1920s club. So look at the first image and you will wonder what I'm blethering about, it's even stamped 'L', indicating a ladies club.

 

 

Might it be Joe Anderson (or Jos) of Perth, the signature looks very like one I saw on a putter of his recently. (OK Brand)

 

Thank you but 'No'.

In the early days of the World Hickory Open, I spent time in the company of Rick Valentine, grandson of Jessie and great grandson of Joe Anderson. I had a few of Joe's clubs which I sold to him. He always referred to him as Joe, never 'Jos'.

And the inscription reads 'Jas', an abbreviation of James.

I'm guessing a small producer from St Andrews.

[Jiggered]

The first is a driver with sole-plate and is stamped Jas Anderson. Now I already have a driver of his in my play set and it goes so well that a prominent Scottish member of the BGCS condemned it (and me) as a 'cheat-stick' believing it to be retro-shafted. That it isn't you will just have to take my word. However, I never found out who 'Jas Anderson was, clearly not the Anstruthers, it's a late 1920s club. So look at the first image and you will wonder what I'm blethering about, it's even stamped 'L', indicating a ladies club.

 

 

Might it be Joe Anderson (or Jos) of Perth, the signature looks very like one I saw on a putter of his recently. (OK Brand)

 

Thank you but 'No'.

In the early days of the World Hickory Open, I spent time in the company of Rick Valentine, grandson of Jessie and great grandson of Joe Anderson. I had a few of Joe's clubs which I sold to him. He always referred to him as Joe, never 'Jos'.

And the inscription reads 'Jas', an abbreviation of James.

I'm guessing a small producer from St Andrews.

 

Must be a commonly used script at the time then as the similarity is uncanny, see link below.

The putter may even say "Jas" as it's hard to read on the picture and I'm just going by the seller's description.

 

http://www.ebay.co.u...=STRK:MEBIDX:IT

[Blade Junkie]

And the inscription reads 'Jas', an abbreviation of James.

I'm guessing a small producer from St Andrews.

 

Chris - there are three James Anderson's mentioned in detail in the Georgiady "Compendium of British Club Makers" book. Obviously Anderson of Anstruther, but also another couple listed as St Andrews area, including the one who won the Open three years in a row in 1887-1889 :)

 

On top of that, the book also mentions three "J" Anderson's as pros at various clubs.

[stixman]

Yes, thanks, I have that book but it gets me no nearer to jas. Anderson.

However, I now have David Kirkwood on the case and I shall report back.

I wouldn't normally be sweating it, but these are exceptionally well made clubs with an advanced head shape...so, who was he, you researchers?

[Jiggered]

The 2nd English Hickory Open will be held at The Buckinghamshire Club on Tuesday 16th May.

 

I'll advise further details as I get them !

 

This was a great event last year, and I for one will definitely be going again :)

 

Have you heard any more about this Geoff?

 

I've been trawling Google for news with no luck.

[Boney]

Had fun playing hickory golf with my Louisville set yesterday. Muddy as heck, but I played pretty well playing lift-clean-and-place. The driver and higher-lofted clubs worked especially well. I do seem to hit hooks with my long irons, but not the woods. Interesting. I made one birdie, on a 110-yard par 3, hit it behind the hole and dribbled it into the left side. The putter pictured is a Walter Clark "77 Professional" from around 1901 (I was told) that I regripped and added some lead tape to. I also wanted to brag about my skillz as seen below, check out the pitch mark repair, practically undetectable, oh yeah.

[Blade Junkie]

The 2nd English Hickory Open will be held at The Buckinghamshire Club on Tuesday 16th May.

 

I'll advise further details as I get them !

 

This was a great event last year, and I for one will definitely be going again :)

 

Have you heard any more about this Geoff?

 

I've been trawling Google for news with no luck.

 

Sorry just seen this - was away playing hickory at Kilspindie last weekend and not online much.

 

I will try and find out a bit more info for you ... last year the event took place but there wasn't any advertising material as such :)

[HoldenCornfield]

Really looking forward to this week's Southern Hickory Four Ball in Birmingham. Tad always does a great job with the tourney. Plus, he's bringing me the last three irons I need to complete my Victor reproduction iron set, so I'm charged up about that. I know there's a divergence of opinion on playing repros vs originals -- and I don't want to stoke that debate again -- but for me there's no comparison.

 

Unless you have the time and lots of money to put together a quality set of flanged originals then repros are the way to go. I played this weekend in very benign conditions and on my 120 yard approach shot on the ninth hole I carved a divot large enough to bury the family pet in with my el cheapo Wilsonian mashie niblick. Nearly broke my hand as well. It's a wonder the shaft didn't break. There is absolutely no margin for error whatsoever with those super sharp blades. They look cool as heck, for sure, but certainly not conducive for playing your best golf.

 

Looks like the weather will cooperate, being warm and dry. Highs in upper 80's each day with only minimal rain chances. Should be a great tournament!

 

Side note from last year's tournament: after Friday's round about a dozen of us -- including the recently departed Mike Just -- went to a nearby restaurant for dinner straight from the course, still dressed in our hickory era garb. We got quite a few sideways glances from the local patrons. Finally, one older lady got up the courage to come over and ask, "Are y'all the barbershop quartet?" (even though, as I said, there were at least a dozen of us -- certainly more than a quartet!) But one of the wags in the group was ready with a quip, "No, ma'am, we're the gay bowling team." Well, that got quite a few laughs from our group but she was mortified to the point of being speechless -- unusual for a Southern lady!

 

[Apologies if I've told this story here before...or if you're actually a member of a gay bowling team]