private club gratuity

[The Big Pinch]

What about tipping the employees at the bag drop and cart area?

[Pepperturbo]

Not allowed, but quietly done at some clubs by members that think they are above the rest. Some members were caught at my last club and brought before the BOD. Their actions, regardless of motivation, influenced the behaivor of staff. Staff getting $$$ paid greater attention to those flashing $$$, overlooking other members. People that flash $$$ have an agenda too, and all too often it's not all that good.

[ruascott]

Pepper, you seem to have a lot of experience at clubs....how many do you/have you belonged to. They sound like nice places, a lot better than ones I've been a member.

[Pepperturbo]

The majority of people that join clubs don't really benefit from the club experience, as they only want to golf with a limited few folks, and quietly use the facilities; which is OK. But, IMO they miss what CC lifestyle is about.

Over the last twelve years been a member of two private clubs; one considered very high end. It's not so much that my clubs are better then others though, or that I am something special. It's the attitude of the clubs members, club activities, moreover my attitude that made my the clubs experiences good ones. Of course being a good golfer, willing to compete for the club and a willingness to take on mundane member tasks and leadership added to my experience. Again, my "attitude" makes my life experiences. Also having a strong business background and reputation, being sociable and a joiner adds to the experience.

Self-starters and joiners have better experiences then loners or people that need help getting to know others, least in clubs and corporate America. That's why picking the right club is important. People need to know what they want from club life. I volunteered for multiple committees each year, which help me to meet most club members. Within a few months I was learning about how a golf course is managed, how the club is run, reviewing P&L's, etc; all on the fly. All of which ends up being a valuable education for me, for which I am thankful, and able to share here.

[CPSOX]

Pepper, what clubs are (were) you a member at?

[JJFWebster]

"A 15% gratuity is automatically added to all Member food & beverage charges"

I still tip a bit of cash if I get really good service.

[atlanta golfer]

[sub]Our club has an automatic 20% added to everything with a footnote that says additional money may be added for truly exceptional service. We also have an end of year bonus fund which they take out of each member's account, which can be eliminated by request if you don't want to contribute (I can't imagine anybody saying no but I don't have access to that list).[/sub]

[sub]I am all ok with this, because I can walk in, get a beer or sandwich or meal or whatever, not even worry about signing my name because they all know me, and I just ask for things and they write them down and nothing else to worry about till the monthly bill. In my mind, this is what a private club is all about. Also, fyi, our club is middle of the road, nothing fancy or anything.[/sub]

[DLiver]

My last two clubs have had different ways of handling tips. My current club had a service charge added to food and beverage. This fee supposedly went back to the employees in the form of higher wages and benefits (our servers got a higher wage--and benefits--than servers at restaurants in the area). My old club had the standard tip setup where members would determine gratuities on an individual basis, and servers were paid typical restaurant wages. My old club had a lot of turnover while my current club retains employees for a surprisingly long time.

We just did away with the service charge, but didn't change any compensation to employees, so we will see how that works out.

I have been a guest at a lot of really nice clubs, and some allow tipping, and some don't. Some REALLY discourage it, and some say "no tipping" with a wink and a nod. I would say there is no one approach that is favored above others.

[ChipDriver]

[quote name='The Big Pinch' timestamp='1339007794' post='5042124']
What about tipping the employees at the bag drop and cart area?
[/quote]

Depends on the club...the inside operations tipping policy could be different than outside operations. The members will know. Some clubs around here have no tipping inside, no tipping outside operations, but you're allowed/expected to tip caddies. Another is optional additional tipping inside; bag tipping is optional; caddie tipping expected.

Was a guest at Whisper Rock in Arizona - the host member specifically and emphatically told us "no tipping".

Confusing.

[CowtownTexas]

By rule, we're allowed to tip the valet guys, caddies, and locker room attendents. Beyond that, we're not supposed to though I know some members do. That being said, I don't and feel the service I receive is no different than any others.

[LagunaLove]

I'll break my opinions down in two area.

F&B - This has nothing to do with the OP's original question. I don't like an automatic gratuity percentage added to your bill. First off, I don't think it breeds people to give good service because they're already getting what they get, regardless of whether they gave you good service or not. I think that's bad and makes people lazy and very complacent.

Golf Staff - I'm specifically talking about valet guys, the guys cleaning your clubs, the guys really taking care of you. I always tip these guys without question, if the club allows it, because especially at the private clubs I've been fortunate enought to play, they're the guys that will really take care of you. I'm not talking about just cleaning your clubs or pulling your car up, but taking care of you and anything you may need. Always take care of those guys and they always take care of me. With that said, I'll throw them a $10, maybe a $20 if they're really good, but I've seen them with members who don't tip and they give them just as great service, so I don't think that has a real effect on them, maybe some, but no the clubs I've been at. Though, it's only a small amount of clubs and nothing compared to a guy like Pepper or anything...

[Pepperturbo]

[quote name='LagunaLove' timestamp='1339113653' post='5049660']
I'll break my opinions down in two area.

F&B - This has nothing to do with the OP's original question. I don't like an automatic gratuity percentage added to your bill. First off, I don't think it breeds people to give good service because they're already getting what they get, regardless of whether they gave you good service or not. I think that's bad and makes people lazy and very complacent.

Golf Staff - I'm specifically talking about valet guys, the guys cleaning your clubs, the guys really taking care of you. I always tip these guys without question, if the club allows it, because especially at the private clubs I've been fortunate enought to play, they're the guys that will really take care of you. I'm not talking about just cleaning your clubs or pulling your car up, but taking care of you and anything you may need. Always take care of those guys and they always take care of me. With that said, I'll throw them a $10, maybe a $20 if they're really good, but I've seen them with members who don't tip and they give them just as great service, so I don't think that has a real effect on them, maybe some, but no the clubs I've been at. Though, it's only a small amount of clubs and nothing compared to a guy like Pepper or anything...
[/quote]

Your thinking is fine.... except it appears to be based upon an assumption; those club employees are not being properly compensated and only do a "quality" job for money. Lets be honest... we can't overlook, you want special attention for that extra $10-$20 tip, right? Or do you just like to over tip for mediocre service?.

Lets set the bar... I know guys that tip $50-$100 to valets, including the shoe valet, etc; making your $10-20 mediocre. Imagine "if" the valet only reacts to who pays the most, gets his best work. That's the reason for club rules, and why good / private clubs scrutinize the work ethic of its employees. Valets at private clubs are suppose to give all members and their guests the same level of service. Members that break the rules and tip, have a personal agenda. Typically it's to buy more attention and importance. What's funny about that is the biggest tippers are NOT normally the wealthiest or flashiest members. There's a reason people have wealth; they don't give it away and usually don't appreciate poor work ethics.

Darn near everyone at my last club drove high end cars, but some were 300k+.. They can't all be lined up out front, like at a restaurant, trying to promote exclusivity and importance. Properly cleaning clubs is comparable to a shoe valet or locker room valet. If the person chooses that job, he needs to meet a minimum work ethic for the compensation; that means no door dings, and treating everyone equally with their best work.

[LagunaLove]

[quote name='Pepperturbo' timestamp='1339176302' post='5053472']
[quote name='LagunaLove' timestamp='1339113653' post='5049660']
I'll break my opinions down in two area.

F&B - This has nothing to do with the OP's original question. I don't like an automatic gratuity percentage added to your bill. First off, I don't think it breeds people to give good service because they're already getting what they get, regardless of whether they gave you good service or not. I think that's bad and makes people lazy and very complacent.

Golf Staff - I'm specifically talking about valet guys, the guys cleaning your clubs, the guys really taking care of you. I always tip these guys without question, if the club allows it, because especially at the private clubs I've been fortunate enought to play, they're the guys that will really take care of you. I'm not talking about just cleaning your clubs or pulling your car up, but taking care of you and anything you may need. Always take care of those guys and they always take care of me. With that said, I'll throw them a $10, maybe a $20 if they're really good, but I've seen them with members who don't tip and they give them just as great service, so I don't think that has a real effect on them, maybe some, but no the clubs I've been at. Though, it's only a small amount of clubs and nothing compared to a guy like Pepper or anything...
[/quote]

Your thinking is fine.... except it appears to be based upon an assumption; those club employees are not being properly compensated and only do a "quality" job for money. Lets be honest... we can't overlook, you want special attention for that extra $10-$20 tip, right? Or do you just like to over tip for mediocre service?.

Lets set the bar... I know guys that tip $50-$100 to valets, including the shoe valet, etc; making your $10-20 mediocre. Imagine "if" the valet only reacts to who pays the most, gets his best work. That's the reason for club rules, and why good / private clubs scrutinize the work ethic of its employees. Valets at private clubs are suppose to give all members and their guests the same level of service. Members that break the rules and tip, have a personal agenda. Typically it's to buy more attention and importance. What's funny about that is the biggest tippers are NOT normally the wealthiest or flashiest members. There's a reason people have wealth; they don't give it away and usually don't appreciate poor work ethics.

Darn near everyone at my last club drove high end cars, but some were 300k+.. They can't all be lined up out front, like at a restaurant, trying to promote exclusivity and importance. Properly cleaning clubs is comparable to a shoe valet or locker room valet. If the person chooses that job, he needs to meet a minimum work ethic for the compensation; that means no door dings, and treating everyone equally with their best work.
[/quote]

Oh no, I think you're misunderstanding what I'm saying. If the service is bad to mediocre, I won't tip nearly as much, but I always tip. With that said, I've had to the privilege to play a high-end private here in Las Vegas numerous times and they have the best golf course service I have ever seen, nothing close to mediocrity and I always take care of them because they really do a quality job in all aspects from valet to golf staff to just about everything else. I'm not trying to get special service at all. Also, Vegas is a bit different animal because it probably is the tipping capital of the world. I'm not asking for special service or to keep my car in VIP or anyting of that matter. I just appreciate the service that they give, because it really is quality.

With that said, I couldn't agree more with the guys that are usually big tippers having an agenda. I've seen it before and I'm sure at clubs with a lot of politics that's exactly why they do it. I've honestly never played a 'No Tipping' club, so I have no experience there. That's my perspective, I hope you don't think I'm doing this to get special service, not it at all, after having worked at private clubs in college, I've learned to appreciate really good service and I tip accordingly, that is all.

[Pepperturbo]

[quote name='LagunaLove' timestamp='1339180322' post='5053804']
[quote name='Pepperturbo' timestamp='1339176302' post='5053472']
[quote name='LagunaLove' timestamp='1339113653' post='5049660']
I'll break my opinions down in two area.

F&B - This has nothing to do with the OP's original question. I don't like an automatic gratuity percentage added to your bill. First off, I don't think it breeds people to give good service because they're already getting what they get, regardless of whether they gave you good service or not. I think that's bad and makes people lazy and very complacent.

Golf Staff - I'm specifically talking about valet guys, the guys cleaning your clubs, the guys really taking care of you. I always tip these guys without question, if the club allows it, because especially at the private clubs I've been fortunate enought to play, they're the guys that will really take care of you. I'm not talking about just cleaning your clubs or pulling your car up, but taking care of you and anything you may need. Always take care of those guys and they always take care of me. With that said, I'll throw them a $10, maybe a $20 if they're really good, but I've seen them with members who don't tip and they give them just as great service, so I don't think that has a real effect on them, maybe some, but no the clubs I've been at. Though, it's only a small amount of clubs and nothing compared to a guy like Pepper or anything...
[/quote]

Your thinking is fine.... except it appears to be based upon an assumption; those club employees are not being properly compensated and only do a "quality" job for money. Lets be honest... we can't overlook, you want special attention for that extra $10-$20 tip, right? Or do you just like to over tip for mediocre service?.

Lets set the bar... I know guys that tip $50-$100 to valets, including the shoe valet, etc; making your $10-20 mediocre. Imagine "if" the valet only reacts to who pays the most, gets his best work. That's the reason for club rules, and why good / private clubs scrutinize the work ethic of its employees. Valets at private clubs are suppose to give all members and their guests the same level of service. Members that break the rules and tip, have a personal agenda. Typically it's to buy more attention and importance. What's funny about that is the biggest tippers are NOT normally the wealthiest or flashiest members. There's a reason people have wealth; they don't give it away and usually don't appreciate poor work ethics.

Darn near everyone at my last club drove high end cars, but some were 300k+.. They can't all be lined up out front, like at a restaurant, trying to promote exclusivity and importance. Properly cleaning clubs is comparable to a shoe valet or locker room valet. If the person chooses that job, he needs to meet a minimum work ethic for the compensation; that means no door dings, and treating everyone equally with their best work.
[/quote]

Oh no, I think you're misunderstanding what I'm saying. If the service is bad to mediocre, I won't tip nearly as much, but I always tip. With that said, I've had to the privilege to play a high-end private here in Las Vegas numerous times and they have the best golf course service I have ever seen, nothing close to mediocrity and I always take care of them because they really do a quality job in all aspects from valet to golf staff to just about everything else. I'm not trying to get special service at all. Also, Vegas is a bit different animal because it probably is the tipping capital of the world. I'm not asking for special service or to keep my car in VIP or anyting of that matter. I just appreciate the service that they give, because it really is quality.

With that said, I couldn't agree more with the guys that are usually big tippers having an agenda. I've seen it before and I'm sure at clubs with a lot of politics that's exactly why they do it. I've honestly never played a 'No Tipping' club, so I have no experience there. That's my perspective, I hope you don't think I'm doing this to get special service, not it at all, after having worked at private clubs in college, I've learned to appreciate really good service and I tip accordingly, that is all.
[/quote]

Understood, and I don't judge from 2D posts. Its not at clubs with lots of politics, as much as clubs with lots of "diverse" wealth, that, in turn, causes politics. Vegas is the tipping capital of the US, but NYC isn't far behind. Monte Carlo is #1 in the world. Thank God it's Friday.

[ChipDriver]

The problem with "rogue" tipping is a odd one...and a case of "a good deed potentially being punished."

In a tipping scenario - there is a school of thought that assumes that the staff will become "coin operated" and will start to overlook non-tipping members, in order to get to the good tippers - like seagulls begging for a french fry. And it will put pressure on the non-tippers to start "bidding for attention". This will potentially piss off the membership...and at many clubs it's not good to piss off the membership.

So even if you're a guest at one of these clubs - please follow the rules. Your "good deed" is actually flirting with getting your host member a reprimand or suspension from the club. In short - YOU RISK MAKING YOUR HOST LOOK BAD in the eyes of other members. And THAT is very discourteous.

[Pepperturbo]

[quote name='ChipDriver' timestamp='1339189774' post='5054532']
The problem with "rogue" tipping is a odd one...and a case of "a good deed potentially being punished."

In a tipping scenario - there is a school of thought that assumes that the staff will become "coin operated" and will start to overlook non-tipping members, in order to get to the good tippers - like seagulls begging for a french fry. And it will put pressure on the non-tippers to start "bidding for attention". This will potentially piss off the membership...and at many clubs it's not good to piss off the membership.

So even if you're a guest at one of these clubs - please follow the rules. Your "good deed" is actually flirting with getting your host member a reprimand or suspension from the club. In short - YOU RISK MAKING YOUR HOST LOOK BAD in the eyes of other members. And THAT is very discourteous.
[/quote]

Excellent!

[shotmaker86]

I've been a server/bartender at two different clubs for the last 7 years and I can tell you that yes, F&B staff at any country club is going to make more per hour than a public restaurant. A server/bartender at a public restaurant is going to make roughly $2-$3/hr plus whatever tips they make for the day. F&B staff at most country clubs is going to make the hourly minimum wage or maybe slightly more if they've been at the club for awhile. The first club I worked at had a 15% gratuity added to any food or beverage purchased, whether it be a bag of peanuts or a four course meal. None of this went to the staff in any form. The second club I worked at, there was also a 15% gratuity added to everything F&B related, including food and beverages for banquets and weddings etc. Half (7.5%) of this 15% went into a pool for the duration of the pay period, then divided up between the F&B staff according to the number of hours they worked during the pay period, with a larger share going to those who worked more and vice versa and was added to your paycheck. With this system, the "tip-share" would essentially cancel out any amount of income tax on your paycheck, so multiply your hourly wage by your hours worked and you could essentially estimate how much your paycheck would be. For both clubs, you would run into 3 situations. There was no extra tip left, there was a small tip left that wouldn't be indicative of a person's public tipping habits (Most likely b/c of a misunderstanding of where the 15% goes, or as the OP mentions is an effort to to make the 15% plus equivalent to 20% by adding a couple bucks as they believed the whole 15% was going to the server.), or people would tip normally. The previous situations are listed in decreasing order according to the frequency of their occurrence. Also, while country club servers make much more per hour than a public restaurant server, the difference comes when you look at the amount of sales vs. the amount of compensation between the two for the same amount of work. If a country club server does $500 in sales for a 5 hour shift (@ $8/hr) under either of the two systems mentioned, they walk out with $40 or less after after their paycheck is taxed. A restaurant server who does $500 in sales with an average tip of 15% will walk out with $75 cash plus the apx. $10 their hourly wage earned them. Not to mention, the restaurant server will not be taxed for the entire $85 they made that shift because only a fraction of their tips gets reported. Also, it should be mentioned that I am only comparing full meals / bar tabs and basic sit-down style restaurant services in my sales comparisons, as no country club server would be miffed for not being tipped for handing out a bag peanuts or a Gatorade in the snack bar. So, with all that being said, the simplest way to put it is that country club F&B staff can by and large be grossly under tipped while restaurant service staff is grossly underpaid in their hourly wages for the same amount of effort. Yes, being paid more hourly is helpful when it's slow, but it's also a kick in the teeth when you really go all out for someone and they leave nothing as a tip on a huge bill because they assume the server is pocketing all of the gratuity they see on the check. So, from my experience the best way to remedy any sort of awkwardness between yourself and the food and beverage staff with regards to tipping is to first, get to know them and have a friendly relationship with them. This way, your value to them in regards to the effort they put in to your personal service is based on more than money. I've had many a member who never tipped, but because of the camaraderie we had, I had no problems going above and beyond for them because they became more like friends than just another customer. Second, if your club adds a gratuity, then find out exactly what it's for and where every penny of it goes, and then make your tipping decisions based on this information. Lastly, re-read the previous sentence. Don't let whoever is serving you assume you're a d#!k because you didn't understand how the gratuity worked and you left nothing on a $300 tab because you thought the server got it all. Regardless of the higher wage, the same amount of effort was put into that $300 in sales as there would've been had the same server served you in a normal restaurant. Also, you have to remember that money makes the world go round, so naturally if your known to tip extra despite the gratuity, then the server is more than likely going to go to greater lengths to fulfill any special requests etc. Since a country club F&B staff person can rely on their hourly wage, there's really not a whole lot of incentive to do anything special for someone that isn't going to reward you for such unless, you are always friendly, familiar and reasonable with the person serving you as I mentioned above. A lot can be said for being a good customer. Sorry this was long, but I feel like it needed adequate explanation as it's been a point of confusion for the membership, and a point of contention with the F&B staff for as long as I worked at either club. So, educate yourself on what the gratuity is for and how much goes to who, and make your decisions from there. Also, don't forget that the server is the last person to see your food before it gets to the table... JK I hope this helps some people here.