question about laser range finders (current gps user)

[geoangus]

One of the features I like most about gps units, is the distance to the front or rear of the green. For example, blue flag, gps tells me 125 to center, 140 to rear, so I'll pull the club that most likely keeps me under 140. Now a laser might tell me that its 135 to the flag, but how easy is it to determine the distance to the back of the green with a laser?

[Solutions Etcetera]

It depends on the topography. Lets say the back of the green slopes up; then maybe you can find a spot that will reflect the beam back to the unit. I have often been able to get a reading on a patch of grass so long as there is a vertical component to it.

But if it is flat (or sloping down) you can pretty much forget getting an accurate reading (or one that is even close).

[eppey]

It's actually a non issue really if you know the flag color of have a pin sheet from the course. Shoot the distance to the flag and take more or less club depending on front, middle or back. So for your example the laser will tell you a blue flag is 136 so take a club that will put you at less than that if you put a poor swing on it and 136 right on with a perfect swing. For me that would be a wedge. If the numbers were the same - 136 to pin with a laser but the flag was red I would take a 9 iron and risk going long. Hopefully my poor explanation makes sense.

[JJFWebster]

I have them both. The GPS is better hands down. I'm not sure how yours works but my skycaddie actually adjusts the view of the green based on my angle of approach. It also shows large slopes and undulations in the green. The laser is good if the course has not been mapped for GPS.

[Wayneo]

[quote name='JJFWebster' timestamp='1339025671' post='5043780']
It also shows large slopes and undulations in the green.
[/quote]

Only if your course has been updated to "Intelligreen Pro" which is still in Beta. From the courses I've played, I'd say it's only about 40% with that feature enabled.

[Fourmyle of Ceres]

Generally speaking, no you can't accurately determine front and back edges of the green with a laser. If you were real patient then in some cases you might get a good idea of the front from, say, 120 yards out or maybe of the back edge from 60-70 yards on very rare occasions. But most of the time, no. And definitely not from 150-200 yards away.

[misterlau]

You really can't with laser alone. GPS and laser are both great technologies that give you more info than sprinkler heads, but each has it's strengths and weaknesses.

That's why a lot of people (myself included) carry both. Then, depending on your current situation, you can pick the right device and get the information you really need.

[hook_or_slice]

[quote name='geoangus' timestamp='1339024106' post='5043676']
One of the features I like most about gps units, is the distance to the front or rear of the green. For example, blue flag, gps tells me 125 to center, 140 to rear, so I'll pull the club that most likely keeps me under 140. Now a laser might tell me that its 135 to the flag, but how easy is it to determine the distance to the back of the green with a laser?
[/quote]

Think of it this way in the situation you describe, a red flag can be 112-120, a white flag 120-130 and a blue flag 130-138. So within colors there can be a full club variation in locations. A cheap laser and a cheap GPS gives you a much better tool set than either an expensive GPS or laser alone.

[Agent Jim]

I am really happy with my Bushnell V2 Slope. It will pick up the front of the green. I am good about estimating distance to the front once I get the pin distance though. I don't even use my GPS anymore.

[kbuilt]

Usually I tend to tag the group in front of us standing on different areas of the green when possible.

[Kadin 25]

+1 V2 SLOPE with pin sheet. Never an issue.

[randygolfer]

I have both - an SGX and a GX-4i - I will use my GPS for 85% of the time I am playing - I like that I have course management functionality, distances, and scoring all in one place. When I am at a tough pin placement - or I cant really get a good read on where the pin is relative to the green, I will pull out my laser for the approach shot.

I think the big plus for GPS - at least for me - is that it puts most of your course management tools in one place (scorecard, yardage book, green contour/size etc.) and you can use with one hand.

[DaveLeeNC]

GPS and laser each have their own strengths and weaknesses. My primary tool is the laser. I added a low end GPS device for two reasons

1) For distances outside of 175 to 225 where the laser (or at least mine - OK, but not the best) makes it hard

2) To help with issues of 'how far from the pin to the back edge' issues (as an example)

I found my GPS to be helpful regarding issue #1 above. 200'ish yards out it would not be unusual for me to not even bother with the laser, although if I were 'standing around waiting' I would 'shoot it' in every case.

Regarding #2 it is a different story. I have found my GPS device (Bushnell Neo) to be no more than +-5 yards even with PERFECT hole mapping (which never happens, or if it does how would one know). Add to that the fact that mapping's are mostly not bad on average, but something that needs to be verified in advance if you really care. I have seen mappings off by 20 yards more than twice, for example. So with +-inherent error and unknown mapping error, the device is not useful to me WRT item #2 above.

Maybe a Skycaddie system would not have any of these issues. I have no way to know. In the meantime I like my laser with very occasional NEO information in some circumstances.

dave

[bmellisen]

It can be a little challenging if its a totally new course or if everything slopes away from you. But overall not many issues finding something to measure to. I will aslo say this, and gps people can chime in because my experience this weekend could be an anomoly. But played twice, first time with a guy who had a gps. His distance was at least 2-5 yards off of what i picked up, and at one point was 14 yards. And played a sedond course with gps in carts, and it was off by 5 yards about half the time. Is that normal? Whats the +/- on gps supposed to be?

[Agent Jim]

I was out one day and the GPS was saying the hole was over 9 miles away. It would work a few holes, then go back all whacky. I have found, when working properly, its off +/-1-5 yards on average.

[MileHighClub]

[quote name='eppey' timestamp='1339024579' post='5043704']
It's actually a non issue really if you know the flag color of have a pin sheet from the course. Shoot the distance to the flag and take more or less club depending on front, middle or back. So for your example the laser will tell you a blue flag is 136 so take a club that will put you at less than that if you put a poor swing on it and 136 right on with a perfect swing. For me that would be a wedge. If the numbers were the same - 136 to pin with a laser but the flag was red I would take a 9 iron and risk going long. Hopefully my poor explanation makes sense.
[/quote]

Exactly. I adjust a club up or down to the fat part of the green if necessary. It works for me. Only problem is if you don't know pin location, which isn't very often.

[tbarlow11]

My dad just purchased the Bushnell Hybrid Laser Range Finder and GPS. It's both in one... If you really wanted to, you could get that.

But like others have said, most courses give a pin sheet, and at worse give you flag colors or those little small "repair ball mark flags" to tell you whether the pin is in the front middle or back. Take your gps out and you can use it to write down distances from front to middle to back, at your home course at least.

[phillypete]

I firmly believe most non-tour pros will shoot better scores with a gps in hand than a laser.

the reason is lasers promote pin hunting, where as a gps promotes thinking about the options and alternatives of using the entire green.

for example if a laser tells me I have 125 to the pin, I'm more than likely going to yank the pw and try to hit the full shot to the pin. However if I know right off the bat that the pin is in the back right and the green plays from the from torward the hole, then I might pull the 9i and hit a little chippy runner which is a much high percentage shot fore.

I've owned a range finder as well as gps on my iPhone. And everytime commit to using the range finder, I find myself struggling to get proper yardages to landscape features.

[njlam]

Every Father's Day, I think about the whole golf distance device issue and usually conclude that their is too much improvement in the offing to make an investment, and I will wait another year for the technology to get better.

This year, my kids seemed to be running out of gift ideas, so I thought I would at least have a GPS or rangefinder device in mind in case they needed a suggestion.

My research began as follows:

First consideration: GPS or rangefinder.

Initially, this decision seemed like a lay up: The GPS had much more technology and information at our fingertips. The devices had become very small and many of the best ones had no annual subsciption fees. I had decided on a top of the line Garmin (Approach G6) because of its size, features and reputation in the GPS and sports arenas. Then I went to Golfsmith to look at one....

I guess I waited too long to get a GPS....now that I am over 50 (turn 52 on Monday), I can no longer read the smaller GPS screens without reading glasses. Having no interest in bringing reading glasses on the course in addition to a distance measuring device when I play golf, the GPS can no longer be considered.

Reading all these GPS vs rangefinder forums, I am suprised I am the only one to bring up this issue. How do visually challenged/older players use a GPS?

Secondary considerations:

At my home course, they vary the tee areas (grass) on the driving range, so the distances to the flags can be different everyday. A laser rangefinder is an application here where a GPS does not

On these GPS vs rangefinder forums, there seems to be more complaints about the accuracy of the GPS devices than there are for the lasers.

It seems that many of the modern laser rangefinders do not need a prism to lock on to a distance, so the GPS advantage of distance to bunkers, hazards, etc is not as great as long as there is line of sight.

My research concludes that the Leupold GX 3i is a rangefinder that is a good combination of features, durability and quality.

Any thoughts on my thought process or my rangefinder choice?

If I can't read the GPS, I won't use it. A range finder may improve my vision on th course.

I expect to get it on Monday.
.

[BlackDiamondPar5]

[quote name='njlam' timestamp='1342315581' post='5276894']
I guess I waited too long to get a GPS....now that I am over 50 (turn 52 on Monday), I can no longer read the smaller GPS screens without reading glasses. Having no interest in bringing reading glasses on the course in addition to a distance measuring device when I play golf, the GPS can no longer be considered.

Reading all these GPS vs rangefinder forums, I am suprised I am the only one to bring up this issue. How do visually challenged/older players use a GPS?

[/quote]

I agree while the G6 is very nice, its screen is borderline too small for me and I wear +1.25 readers. I think a short term fix could allow the user to change font sizes.

Next hardware release should consider a little larger screen like the size of most android phones.

[Wayneo]

Njalm,
let me chime in.

[quote name='njlam' timestamp='1342315581' post='5276894']
I can no longer read the smaller GPS screens without reading glasses.

At my home course, they vary the tee areas (grass) on the driving range, so the distances to the flags can be different everyday. A laser rangefinder is an application here where a GPS does not

It seems that many of the modern laser rangefinders do not need a prism to lock on to a distance, so the GPS advantage of distance to bunkers, hazards, etc is not as great as long as there is line of sight.

My research concludes that the Leupold GX 3i is a rangefinder that is a good combination of features, durability and quality.
[/quote]

I own a SkyCaddie GPS unit, and they have an option for large numbers for us old timers, however they do require an annual subscription.

For the GPS, the center, front, and back of the green never changes, and those are the mapped points. So it doesn't matter where YOU are, those green locations never change. All GPS's work this way.

I also own a Leupold GX-4, and while it's a great unit, and you don't need prisms, I find it difficult to measure the distance to bunkers, hazards, etc. Flags, no problem. You just gotta hope you're not too shaky, I usually brace myself when using it.

Either option you choose, the Leupold is a great unit.

[Fourmyle of Ceres]

The one eternal annoyance about GPS units, at least the ones I've tried, is their wandering about over a 4-8 yard range whilst sitting perfectly still in one place. Now if the screen says "153" when I arrive at the tee box, then decides no it's "155" a moment later that makes no difference in how I play the shot. But then after hitting the ball I come back to my bag and it says "149" and if I stand around for couple more minutes it might change yet again to "154".

None of which is going to make me hit a bad shot. But I'm paranoid enough that I keep wondering "Is this the time I hit my '155 club' then walked over to see it says '167' instead?". Why can't these things settle down and give the same number until you move them again?

[DaveLeeNC]

[quote name='Fourmyle of Ceres' timestamp='1342454952' post='5285492']
The one eternal annoyance about GPS units, at least the ones I've tried, is their wandering about over a 4-8 yard range whilst sitting perfectly still in one place. Now if the screen says "153" when I arrive at the tee box, then decides no it's "155" a moment later that makes no difference in how I play the shot. But then after hitting the ball I come back to my bag and it says "149" and if I stand around for couple more minutes it might change yet again to "154".

None of which is going to make me hit a bad shot. But I'm paranoid enough that I keep wondering "Is this the time I hit my '155 club' then walked over to see it says '167' instead?". Why can't these things settle down and give the same number until you move them again?
[/quote]

I am now a laser guy (in part because of the issue that you stated). From what i can tell.....

1) The newer units are somewhat less prone to this 'walk around' problem than those from the 2007-2010 era.

2) Generally speaking your 'best reading' is the one that you get after walking up to your ball, pause and wait a few seconds for the dsplay to settle down, and that is your answer.

3) GPS is no better than maybe +- 5 yards (even with perfect mapping, which is yet another error). And it isn't like a +- 5 yard error makes the technology useless.

4) You need to take particular care in cases where you don't have a clear view of the sky

dave

[Fourmyle of Ceres]

Yeah, my first-generation Skycaddie had all that plus it would just go away completely from time to time and not work until I had re-downloaded firmware. That one didn't last long, when the first year's subscription was out I eBay'd it.

Been using a laser ever since but recently picked up one of the Bushnell Neo+ no-subscriptions cheapies. It's more reliable overall but does that infuriating "Oops, changed my mind" thing still.

And I agree, the number I get after that first re-do (about 90 seconds after I stop walking) is the one that is correct. While I'm off hitting the ball and/or waiting on others to hit it usually changes by 3-4 yards to a worse number.

At my home course I know virtually every yardage that matters to within 3-4 yards by eyeball anyway. I got the Neo+ to use on my upcoming 8 rounds, 3 courses, 6 days golf holiday. It's going to be precise enough for feeling my way around strange courses but still pretty annoying.

And yes, the mapping errors are in there as well. At my home course the "center of green" seems pretty good but some of the front and back numbers are ludicrous. So I ignore them anyway.

P.S. A few of the bunker yardages I've glanced it seem pretty decent although honestly I don't use those numbers so I haven't checked closely.

[Wayneo]

Fourmyle - their bunker yardages are to the 'center' of the bunker. Not like you'd want to know when it started and ended if nothing else was worthy of being mapped, just the center.

[Cobras7]

I purchased a rangefinder only a few days ago because i wanted to try it out and i had a tournament to test it out in. I did have a similar worry however i found it unusual to need the front or back at my course. I did need it on one hole and i used a green side bunker to measure the top lip and that essentially gave me the front. I highly recommend the Bushnell Tour V2. It is compact and easy to use.

[feedlotdoc]

I have an SG5 and a cheap laser range finder. In the past I have avoided the range finder because it is no good where I play from (other fairways, trees, etc.). I am now using both, GPS when I'm off track to get an idea of what I need to hit, laser when I have a clear open view of the pin. My SG5 and laser agree to the center of the green +/- 2 yds. I have only been using both consistently for about 2 weeks, but I firmly believe adding the laser to my bag has helped my game.