Golf rules and interpret forum? where?

[golf-ccc]

Trying to find a rules forum....

Hello,

I'm trying to find a place in the forum to discuss golf rules and interpretations to them....do you know a place??

By the way, what i'm trying to rule is the following situation, hope anyone can help.

In stroke play, on the putting green, my opponent had a very tough put that there was no way to leave the ball even close with no direct path and a slope opposite to the curve needed to approach the hole.

My opponent asks my caddie to attend the flag for him, but my caddie gets distracted as my apponent makes a very strong put-stroke that would send the ball outside the putting green, his ball hits the flag that was never lifted by my caddie (because he was distracted by something) and and stops the ball 2 ft away to save a par that could very easy be a double.

My opponent claims that since he specifically asked my caddie to attend the flag he should not be penalized with 2 strokes and neither replace the ball to its original place. He claims that if a caddie doesn't not lift the flag intentionally or by distraction as in this case, when specifically asked to do so, the player should not be penalized for a breech in the rule.

ANy tohughts on this will be much more appreciated...

[golfernut78]

GolfWRX Rules Forum

[sfdoddsy]

Your opponent is wrong.

 

It doesn't matter whether the person tending the flag is your opponent, your caddie, his caddie or your grandmother. It also doesn't matter if they tried to remove the flag and failed. It doesn't matter if the holder dropped dead and was thus unable to remove the flag.

 

If a putt hits the flag it is a two stroke penalty in stroke play or loss of hole in match play.

 

In other words, whether or not your opponent asked your caddie to mind the pin means nothing. Tending the pin is a courtesy only. It is his responsibility to ensure it is not still stuck in the hole.

[golf-ccc]

What's the rule when you ask a person to attend the flag, the person agrees and intentionally leave the flag in the hole. Do you still get the 2 stroke penalty? Is there any penalty for the attendant for not complying to do what he agree to do?

[DemolitionMan]

Your opponent is wrong.

 

It doesn't matter whether the person tending the flag is your opponent, your caddie, his caddie or your grandmother. It also doesn't matter if they tried to remove the flag and failed. It doesn't matter if the holder dropped dead and was thus unable to remove the flag.

 

If a putt hits the flag it is a two stroke penalty in stroke play or loss of hole in match play.

 

In other words, whether or not your opponent asked your caddie to mind the pin means nothing. Tending the pin is a courtesy only. It is his responsibility to ensure it is not still stuck in the hole.

 

Actually, you are the one that is wrong. There are very specific rules regarding unauthorized attendance of a flag, authorized attendance, what happens when the flag hits a ball, decisions for various scenarios, etc....on the USGA website. Your explanation is oversimplifying the issues even though in the end, there is a two stroke penalty for the person who putted.

 

In the scenario above, the caddy was asked and authorized to tend the flag and in accepting it becomes the responsibility of the caddy to remove the flag correctly. However, if it can be determined that the caddy was distracted and not deliberate, the person putting gets a two stroke penalty and plays the ball as it lies. Or loss of hole in match play.

 

If the caddy deliberately did not pull the flag then the player of that caddy is disqualified in both stroke and match play. In this scenario, deliberately trying to get your opponent to be penalized for striking an attended flag is considered a serious breach of rule 1-2, you are DQ'd.

 

And in the event that the caddy left the flag in knowing the ball would hit it and trying to help the person putting have a better outcome then in match play the caddy's player loses the hole, but it stroke play the caddy's player gets a two stroke penalty and the person putting gets a two stroke penalty. I suppose that could be four strokes if it's your caddy that did that.

[smarshal75]

Your opponent is wrong.

 

It doesn't matter whether the person tending the flag is your opponent, your caddie, his caddie or your grandmother. It also doesn't matter if they tried to remove the flag and failed. It doesn't matter if the holder dropped dead and was thus unable to remove the flag.

 

If a putt hits the flag it is a two stroke penalty in stroke play or loss of hole in match play.

 

In other words, whether or not your opponent asked your caddie to mind the pin means nothing. Tending the pin is a courtesy only. It is his responsibility to ensure it is not still stuck in the hole.

 

Actually, you are the one that is wrong. There are very specific rules regarding unauthorized attendance of a flag, authorized attendance, what happens when the flag hits a ball, decisions for various scenarios, etc....on the USGA website. Your explanation is oversimplifying the issues even though in the end, there is a two stroke penalty for the person who putted.

 

In the scenario above, the caddy was asked and authorized to tend the flag and in accepting it becomes the responsibility of the caddy to remove the flag correctly. However, if it can be determined that the caddy was distracted and not deliberate, the person putting gets a two stroke penalty and plays the ball as it lies. Or loss of hole in match play.

 

If the caddy deliberately did not pull the flag then the player of that caddy is disqualified in both stroke and match play. In this scenario, deliberately trying to get your opponent to be penalized for striking an attended flag is considered a serious breach of rule 1-2, you are DQ'd.

 

And in the event that the caddy left the flag in knowing the ball would hit it and trying to help the person putting have a better outcome then in match play the caddy's player loses the hole, but it stroke play the caddy's player gets a two stroke penalty and the person putting gets a two stroke penalty. I suppose that could be four strokes if it's your caddy that did that.

 

 

Wow, there is quite a bit of grey area regarding caddy intent. I mean, how does one determine the caddy was unintentionally distracted or merely acted distracted with the intent of causing a penalty?

[DemolitionMan]

Your opponent is wrong.

 

It doesn't matter whether the person tending the flag is your opponent, your caddie, his caddie or your grandmother. It also doesn't matter if they tried to remove the flag and failed. It doesn't matter if the holder dropped dead and was thus unable to remove the flag.

 

If a putt hits the flag it is a two stroke penalty in stroke play or loss of hole in match play.

 

In other words, whether or not your opponent asked your caddie to mind the pin means nothing. Tending the pin is a courtesy only. It is his responsibility to ensure it is not still stuck in the hole.

 

Actually, you are the one that is wrong. There are very specific rules regarding unauthorized attendance of a flag, authorized attendance, what happens when the flag hits a ball, decisions for various scenarios, etc....on the USGA website. Your explanation is oversimplifying the issues even though in the end, there is a two stroke penalty for the person who putted.

 

In the scenario above, the caddy was asked and authorized to tend the flag and in accepting it becomes the responsibility of the caddy to remove the flag correctly. However, if it can be determined that the caddy was distracted and not deliberate, the person putting gets a two stroke penalty and plays the ball as it lies. Or loss of hole in match play.

 

If the caddy deliberately did not pull the flag then the player of that caddy is disqualified in both stroke and match play. In this scenario, deliberately trying to get your opponent to be penalized for striking an attended flag is considered a serious breach of rule 1-2, you are DQ'd.

 

And in the event that the caddy left the flag in knowing the ball would hit it and trying to help the person putting have a better outcome then in match play the caddy's player loses the hole, but it stroke play the caddy's player gets a two stroke penalty and the person putting gets a two stroke penalty. I suppose that could be four strokes if it's your caddy that did that.

 

 

Wow, there is quite a bit of grey area regarding caddy intent. I mean, how does one determine the caddy was unintentionally distracted or merely acted distracted with the intent of causing a penalty?

 

I suppose that falls under the area of being a game of honesty, gentlemen, and all that jazz. In reality, if you are playing for something meaningful, have your own caddy tend the flag, or be very sure the opponent is going to do what you expect them to do.

[golf-ccc]

I found the interpretation of this specific case at www.usga.org, the posts above are correct, if the caddie is distracted, the opponent gets the two strokes....my only observation is that if the caddie was trying to help the opponent, it is the palyers caddie that gets the 2 strokes, no the opponent so there is no 4 stroke penalty, only 2 for the player.

 

Summing up, if its intentional to cause the opponent a penalty, then is desqualification of the player. (math and strokes)

if the intention was to prevent the ball to go further but no intention of causing a penalty, then its 2 strokes for the player and replay the ball by opponent (loss of hole in matchplay)

If it was unintentional, distrction or somelike that, then it's 2 strokes for the opponent and play the ball as it is.

 

On the other hand, I agree that the line between intention, prevention and distraction is very thin and must be defined by honesty and integrity.

[smarshal75]

Like DemolitionMan posted...have your own caddy cover the pin.

 

So, what do you do when your opponent claims your caddy intentionally didn't pull the pin? Who arbitrates this matter? In my opinion this is a crappy rule interpretation.

 

I don't not why, but my common intuition just says the offending caddy's player should take the strokes for his/her failure to pull the pin as asked and agreed to do. Maybe if the caddy's player was assessed the strokes he/she would keep their head in the game instead of daydreaming. Just doesn't seem fair.