The Arm Swing Illusion / Jim Waldron's Swing Philosophy

[Atrayn]

Funny you mention the "rotation". He can be quite hard to understand but I took that, as he demonstrated, being the back hinging not the "roll" causing the face to open. I think that he's on the same track as we are discussing now, being blended. I never liked the Donte version that just talked about the hinge with no c0ck. I didn't take Donte as suggesting an overly weak left hand grip. If I remember correctly he states, "two knuckles and two knuckles only".

It's definitely a vital micro-move and I believe overlooked quite a bit.

Thanks for the clarification.

[Silky]

[quote name='Jim Waldron' timestamp='1431701713' post='11563830']

Sounds like you need a lesson!

You need to actively c0ck/hinge your wrists during the backswing. The notion of pivot momentum doing it for you is, in my opinion, one of the most destructive in golf, and one reason I ask my Great Shot! new students to read "The Four Magic Moves" to winning golf by Joe Dante. (even though I don't advocate for his grip or backswing method of wrist setting, rather the concept that you need to do it with wrist muscles).

Many body and shaft plans happen in a good golf swing. You need to abandon the notion that everything should move in the same or similar planes. Just cannot work that way. Lots of shifting going on, even a "simple" swing like Billy Horschel or Justin Rose!

One way to release the wrist c0ck angles in the forward swing is entirely (or nearly so) through pivot momentum, called a "passive release", which must be married to a slow to medium pivot thrust speed. Fast pivot thrust speeds require an active wrist c0ck release. Average golfers especially will find the passive release easier to learn and to manage since all you need is Stage One of the two stage booster rocket to be active, ie the Pivot Thrust part. Stage two will then happen automatically.
[/quote]

I wished I attended your school 30 years ago. I learn by truths not rote, I would have been a difficult skeptical student. LOL.

The concept of "flat left wrists" and passive arms with neutral grip brought to me a flattish swing with bow left wrist at the top of swing. My home remedy is conscious plane shifting and wrist hinging by palming with the left hand on the steeper plane a la Dante except the bowing of the left wrist. This brings slight cupping to my left wrist though.

I do the downswing in two stages as you mention - lower body first with passive upper body and then upper body torquing. I misunderstood your Pivot Thrust as the second stage. In my mind, the first stage is for transporting and aligning of the upper body and endow it with initial momentum with active turning and torquing in the second stage?

[Jim Waldron]

[quote name='Silky' timestamp='1431738528' post='11567000']
[quote name='Jim Waldron' timestamp='1431701713' post='11563830']
Sounds like you need a lesson!

You need to actively c0ck/hinge your wrists during the backswing. The notion of pivot momentum doing it for you is, in my opinion, one of the most destructive in golf, and one reason I ask my Great Shot! new students to read "The Four Magic Moves" to winning golf by Joe Dante. (even though I don't advocate for his grip or backswing method of wrist setting, rather the concept that you need to do it with wrist muscles).

Many body and shaft plans happen in a good golf swing. You need to abandon the notion that everything should move in the same or similar planes. Just cannot work that way. Lots of shifting going on, even a "simple" swing like Billy Horschel or Justin Rose!

One way to release the wrist c0ck angles in the forward swing is entirely (or nearly so) through pivot momentum, called a "passive release", which must be married to a slow to medium pivot thrust speed. Fast pivot thrust speeds require an active wrist c0ck release. Average golfers especially will find the passive release easier to learn and to manage since all you need is Stage One of the two stage booster rocket to be active, ie the Pivot Thrust part. Stage two will then happen automatically.
[/quote]

I wished I attended your school 30 years ago. I learn by truths not rote, I would have been a difficult skeptical student. LOL.

The concept of "flat left wrists" and passive arms with neutral grip brought to me a flattish swing with bow left wrist at the top of swing. My home remedy is conscious plane shifting and wrist hinging by palming with the left hand on the steeper plane a la Dante except the bowing of the left wrist. This brings slight cupping to my left wrist though.

I do the downswing in two stages as you mention - lower body first with passive upper body and then upper body torquing. I misunderstood your Pivot Thrust as the second stage. In my mind, the first stage is for transporting and aligning of the upper body and endow it with initial momentum with active turning and torquing in the second stage?
[/quote]

Transition is quite complex, no simple answers and I have written about it here and in other threads too, you can do a search for more info on that topic.
Pretty much as you describe it, transition kind of gets you settled in and then you actively "torque" or "twist" hips first, then core, then shoulder girdle/upper torso to deliver the CH with speed into the ball.

Although lower body moves before upper in Transition, I would not call it "passive", it has a role to play but the pivot is moving more like medium speed during transition, with shoulder girdle moving about twice the RPM speed as hips. And core initiates the move even before the lateral tailbone/hip shift and rotation.

Hey, I cherish my "difficult, skeptical" students - makes the school a lot more fun!

You can be skeptical but still open-minded, as I am sure you know.

[Jim Waldron]

I really have to thank my genius video editor and our webmaster since for the first time ever, we actually beat a target deadline, in this case May 25, by ten whole days! i need to figure out how this happened since normally we are late and miss the deadline......

Module One, Part A: The Six Laws of Club Motion video is now up in the Pro Shop section of our website, for download or DVD sale.

http://www.balancepointgolf.com/index.php/pro-shop/golf-videos

We offer the download in two versions, full HD for highest picture quality (but longer download time) or standard DVD quality picture (at faster download time). One hour and forty minutes of viewing time.

This video is all about how to improve your golf swing by understanding precisely how the club is designed to be used in six key areas: shaft lean/clubhead lag, shaft plane and plane angle, including the necessary plane shift, clubface angle control - the key to accurate golf shots, angle of attack and low point control - one of the keys to making solid contact, clubhead speed and power sources and application, and clubhead acceleration. Also covers basic information about proper impact and some related topics on swing theory. And drills for each of the six laws.

[Silky]

[quote name='Jim Waldron' timestamp='1431739810' post='11567104']
[quote name='Silky' timestamp='1431738528' post='11567000']
[quote name='Jim Waldron' timestamp='1431701713' post='11563830']
Sounds like you need a lesson!

You need to actively c0ck/hinge your wrists during the backswing. The notion of pivot momentum doing it for you is, in my opinion, one of the most destructive in golf, and one reason I ask my Great Shot! new students to read "The Four Magic Moves" to winning golf by Joe Dante. (even though I don't advocate for his grip or backswing method of wrist setting, rather the concept that you need to do it with wrist muscles).

Many body and shaft plans happen in a good golf swing. You need to abandon the notion that everything should move in the same or similar planes. Just cannot work that way. Lots of shifting going on, even a "simple" swing like Billy Horschel or Justin Rose!

One way to release the wrist c0ck angles in the forward swing is entirely (or nearly so) through pivot momentum, called a "passive release", which must be married to a slow to medium pivot thrust speed. Fast pivot thrust speeds require an active wrist c0ck release. Average golfers especially will find the passive release easier to learn and to manage since all you need is Stage One of the two stage booster rocket to be active, ie the Pivot Thrust part. Stage two will then happen automatically.
[/quote]

I wished I attended your school 30 years ago. I learn by truths not rote, I would have been a difficult skeptical student. LOL.

The concept of "flat left wrists" and passive arms with neutral grip brought to me a flattish swing with bow left wrist at the top of swing. My home remedy is conscious plane shifting and wrist hinging by palming with the left hand on the steeper plane a la Dante except the bowing of the left wrist. This brings slight cupping to my left wrist though.

I do the downswing in two stages as you mention - lower body first with passive upper body and then upper body torquing. I misunderstood your Pivot Thrust as the second stage. In my mind, the first stage is for transporting and aligning of the upper body and endow it with initial momentum with active turning and torquing in the second stage?
[/quote]

Transition is quite complex, no simple answers and I have written about it here and in other threads too, you can do a search for more info on that topic.
Pretty much as you describe it, transition kind of gets you settled in and then you actively "torque" or "twist" hips first, then core, then shoulder girdle/upper torso to deliver the CH with speed into the ball.

Although lower body moves before upper in Transition, I would not call it "passive", it has a role to play but the pivot is moving more like medium speed during transition, with shoulder girdle moving about twice the RPM speed as hips. And core initiates the move even before the lateral tailbone/hip shift and rotation.

Hey, I cherish my "difficult, skeptical" students - makes the school a lot more fun!

You can be skeptical but still open-minded, as I am sure you know.
[/quote]

Being skeptical but open-minded, that is the main Buddhist philosophy!

I had different notion about the word "transition" before and grossed over what you described in this thread before this.

Now that I reread your exposition in this thread about Transition and Tilt Switch and mapping to the motions that I found successful, I have to exclaim another WOW for you. This is enlightening

[Jim Waldron]

[quote name='Silky' timestamp='1431821809' post='11571162']
[quote name='Jim Waldron' timestamp='1431739810' post='11567104']
[quote name='Silky' timestamp='1431738528' post='11567000']
[quote name='Jim Waldron' timestamp='1431701713' post='11563830']
Sounds like you need a lesson!

You need to actively c0ck/hinge your wrists during the backswing. The notion of pivot momentum doing it for you is, in my opinion, one of the most destructive in golf, and one reason I ask my Great Shot! new students to read "The Four Magic Moves" to winning golf by Joe Dante. (even though I don't advocate for his grip or backswing method of wrist setting, rather the concept that you need to do it with wrist muscles).

Many body and shaft plans happen in a good golf swing. You need to abandon the notion that everything should move in the same or similar planes. Just cannot work that way. Lots of shifting going on, even a "simple" swing like Billy Horschel or Justin Rose!

One way to release the wrist c0ck angles in the forward swing is entirely (or nearly so) through pivot momentum, called a "passive release", which must be married to a slow to medium pivot thrust speed. Fast pivot thrust speeds require an active wrist c0ck release. Average golfers especially will find the passive release easier to learn and to manage since all you need is Stage One of the two stage booster rocket to be active, ie the Pivot Thrust part. Stage two will then happen automatically.
[/quote]

I wished I attended your school 30 years ago. I learn by truths not rote, I would have been a difficult skeptical student. LOL.

The concept of "flat left wrists" and passive arms with neutral grip brought to me a flattish swing with bow left wrist at the top of swing. My home remedy is conscious plane shifting and wrist hinging by palming with the left hand on the steeper plane a la Dante except the bowing of the left wrist. This brings slight cupping to my left wrist though.

I do the downswing in two stages as you mention - lower body first with passive upper body and then upper body torquing. I misunderstood your Pivot Thrust as the second stage. In my mind, the first stage is for transporting and aligning of the upper body and endow it with initial momentum with active turning and torquing in the second stage?
[/quote]

Transition is quite complex, no simple answers and I have written about it here and in other threads too, you can do a search for more info on that topic.
Pretty much as you describe it, transition kind of gets you settled in and then you actively "torque" or "twist" hips first, then core, then shoulder girdle/upper torso to deliver the CH with speed into the ball.

Although lower body moves before upper in Transition, I would not call it "passive", it has a role to play but the pivot is moving more like medium speed during transition, with shoulder girdle moving about twice the RPM speed as hips. And core initiates the move even before the lateral tailbone/hip shift and rotation.

Hey, I cherish my "difficult, skeptical" students - makes the school a lot more fun!

You can be skeptical but still open-minded, as I am sure you know.
[/quote]

Being skeptical but open-minded, that is the main Buddhist philosophy!

I had different notion about the word "transition" before and grossed over what you described in this thread before this.

Now that I reread your exposition in this thread about Transition and Tilt Switch and mapping to the motions that I found successful, I have to exclaim another WOW for you. This is enlightening
[/quote]

Thanks! I think I will start a Transition thread sometime this summer. It is a fascinating topic and often shrouded in myth and mystery for a lot of golfers. Lots of overlap there with the role of the arms, pivot, hit impulse, etc.

I think one useful analogy is driving a car onto the entrance ramp of a freeway, you are going the 35 mph speed limit while on the ramp, but you have to accelerate quickly - but not too quickly or you might lose control of the car ! - to keep pace with the flow of traffic on the freeway doing 70mph. Transition you are on the ramp, and when your left arm gets parallel to the ground or ideally a bit lower than that,ie hands around waist high, you really "fire" the Pivot Thrust to start doing 70mph. And of course you don't instantly go from 35 to 70, there is certainly a build-up of speed due to the nature of the car motor and transmission, but at some point after you arrive safely on the freeway and you "floor it" - that is like the Pivot Thrust.

It is a "violent wrenching movement" as the great Bobby Jones said. You can feel it in your core, almost like you have wet towels wrapped around your spine from mid-back to hips and you are twisting the towels to get the water to wring out. You feel a connection in your feet to the earth, almost like your feet are screwing themselves into the ground. You feel like you are squeezing your inner thighs together - Scissors Action. You will feel your belly button press into your spine.

When we do the Pivot Thrust segment of our Great Shot! golf school, the comments we here early on while doing these specific drills designed to "switch on" the core muscles and others used in pivot thrusting, are usually like"...are you kidding me? I have NEVER ever hit a golf ball using these muscles!"

Tilt Switch is in my experience both one of the most difficult swing concepts to deeply understand and also to train your body to execute. I had my first glimpse of this in a golf school with Mac O'Grady back in 1994 and had never heard of this concept until then (although he does not call it Tilt Switch). Like the ASI, Tilt Switch requires true 3D thinking to understand clearly. It also requires a foundation to be already in place - a rock solid Lower Body Stability Platform and really good sense of Balance.

[4pillars]

Jim

Going through your new DVD release and I really think seeing it visually really adds power to the information in the Great shot book, plus the extra information not in the book (The Wild Bill Melhorn information comes to mind).

One question that cropped up when you explained the 3 Wood is how high do you tee it. Presumably just above the surface.and how high do you tee up for hybid and iron shots.

[Jim Waldron]

[quote name='4pillars' timestamp='1431845281' post='11572538']
Jim

Going through your new DVD release and I really think seeing it visually really adds power to the information in the Great shot book, plus the extra information not in the book (The Wild Bill Melhorn information comes to mind).

One question that cropped up when you explained the 3 Wood is how high do you tee it. Presumably just above the surface.and how high do you tee up for hybid and iron shots.
[/quote]

Thanks! And I agree. Always the issue with mostly text-based information, it gets you headed in the right direction and clarifies a lot of stuff, but seeing the body and club motion makes it much more real and concrete.

3 wood tee height about 1/4" off the ground or even a bit less. Hybrids about half that height. Irons - a bit less than hyrbrids. When I do my playing lessons, I often see the student teeing up an iron on a par 3 with at least 1/4 inch of space under the ball or even more. No way of hitting a solid iron shot with that tee height. The clubhead is moving downwards, just like a shot from the fairway, so you need to tee it really low.

[4pillars]

I needed to do an index of the DVD so i could find the exercises again, so here are the timings.

00:00 Preface (Sub-concious vs concious learning)
02:13 Introduction to the six laws of club motion
06:23 Forward shaft lean
12:02 Drill Hinge and hold chip drill
15:26 Low point/angle of attack
23:08 drill How to take a divot drill
24:00 Shaft plane angle
31:01 Drill waist to waist swing drill
32:34 Plain board
43:47 The Plane shift
50:54 More on plane shift (Wild Bill Mehlhorn)
58:43 drill Hit Driver and lob wedge alternatively
60:00 Clubface angle control
01:20:41 Drill Forearm rotation
01:26:20 Clubhead acceleration
01:30:25 Short to long drill
01:32:23 Clubhead speed
01:37:57 Drill Anti stearing

[ironcat]

[quote name='Jim Waldron' timestamp='1431701232' post='11563776']
[quote name='DannyG' timestamp='1431694391' post='11563112']
[quote name='Jim Waldron' timestamp='1431632485' post='11559810']
Many of you have asked about the status of my new Great Shot! golf swing/ballstriking video series, and I am happy to announce that our first of ten Modules in that program will be available for download from our website www.balancepointgolf.com on May 25. The first video is titled Module One A: The Six Laws of Club Motion, and is one hour and 42 minutes of viewing time.

The material covers what the golf club design is all about, and how and why that design has certain built-in qualities that require the "club/instrument" to move in a precise way in order for you to make solid contact with the golf ball, and with enough power and accuracy to play great golf. One of the first things I discovered when I began my teaching career over 22 years ago, was that many students - especially mid to high handicaps - struggle with learning an effective golf swing, because they lack that understanding of how the club is supposed to move, the ideal impact conditions, and how power is created and delivered into the ball. I found that there were six "laws" for effective club motion, and that when those six laws were present in a golf swing (assuming good starting position and aim at Setup), a good shot outcome was guaranteed.

I also discovered that teaching pure body mechanics in a "vacuum", ie absent that understanding of how the club is designed to move, resulted in poor learning outcomes of those all important body mechanics. I found that when students understood that club design supported why I was asking them to move their body part in a precise way, then that piece of mechanical learning happened at a much faster rate, and the learning was permanent, ie it supported dominant habit formation. Knowing the club design laws made it much more likely for them to achieve a "light bulb" moment about how to move their body.

Module One B and Module Two: The Arm Swing Illusion are nearly complete, with a target release date for June 15. Module One B is about some of the basics of body motion, the three pre-swing fundamentals of grip, setup and aim, some basic swing theory, baseline balance and tempo, and other related topics. There is a "body of knowledge" about the golf swing and how to create a golf shot that is sorely lacking in the game of golf in general, and again - especially among mid to high handicaps, and Module One Parts A and B will cover that information. Module Two turned out even better than I expected, and covers the Arm Swing Illusion in depth, along with all of it's many ramifications on other parts of the golf swing.
[/quote]

Jim, I purchased your Great Shot ebook but it can get a little confusing without visuals. I'm really looking forward to your videos. Do you have titles and release dates for all the modules. (Just want to get an understanding of the entire program.) Also, have you discussed the costs of the modules? Thanks.
[/quote]

The whole program will be divided into ten modules, eleven really since we had to split Module One since it was too long for reasonable download time. The basic idea behind the program was to offer the experience of our Great Shot! golf swing/ballstriking school in a "virtual" format for those folks who just cannot make the trip in person to Oregon or Hawaii. At first we thought we would just hire a film crew to tape the entire three day golf school, 22.5 hours of actual instruction (and that does not even include lunch where the group is still talking golf!) but we quickly abandoned that idea for logistical reasons. But the content will be the same.

Module Three will be on the mechanics of the Pivot. Four on the Arms and Triangle. Five on the Wrists and Right Arm. Six through Ten will cover Balance, Rhythm, Tempo, Timing/Sequencing, How to Practice (range and home slow mo mirror work), Flaws and Fixes, Swing Illusions, and the Six Swing Mini-Segments.

Modules will be released for download from our site when completed, likely about one per six weeks throughout this summer and fall. DVD option will also be offered. Our goal is to have the last Module done by December 15 target release date. But it could take longer, so we will see. Weather is a factor filming in Oregon in the Fall and also finding time in my schedule for taping.

Cost per module will vary a bit depending on total viewing time of that module, in the $59.95-$89.95 range. Module One A is $69.95.
[/quote]

Will you need all the modules to understand your concept because that averages out at $770 for the full dvd package making it quite an expensive suite of golf dvds.

I'm intrigued enough to buy one or two but worried I'd need all of them for it to work?

Is the concept that complex to require 11 dad's or can you grasp the basics with a few and then add to it if needed?

[Jim Waldron]

[quote name='ironcat' timestamp='1431894425' post='11574590']
[quote name='Jim Waldron' timestamp='1431701232' post='11563776']
[quote name='DannyG' timestamp='1431694391' post='11563112']
[quote name='Jim Waldron' timestamp='1431632485' post='11559810']
Many of you have asked about the status of my new Great Shot! golf swing/ballstriking video series, and I am happy to announce that our first of ten Modules in that program will be available for download from our website www.balancepointgolf.com on May 25. The first video is titled Module One A: The Six Laws of Club Motion, and is one hour and 42 minutes of viewing time.

The material covers what the golf club design is all about, and how and why that design has certain built-in qualities that require the "club/instrument" to move in a precise way in order for you to make solid contact with the golf ball, and with enough power and accuracy to play great golf. One of the first things I discovered when I began my teaching career over 22 years ago, was that many students - especially mid to high handicaps - struggle with learning an effective golf swing, because they lack that understanding of how the club is supposed to move, the ideal impact conditions, and how power is created and delivered into the ball. I found that there were six "laws" for effective club motion, and that when those six laws were present in a golf swing (assuming good starting position and aim at Setup), a good shot outcome was guaranteed.

I also discovered that teaching pure body mechanics in a "vacuum", ie absent that understanding of how the club is designed to move, resulted in poor learning outcomes of those all important body mechanics. I found that when students understood that club design supported why I was asking them to move their body part in a precise way, then that piece of mechanical learning happened at a much faster rate, and the learning was permanent, ie it supported dominant habit formation. Knowing the club design laws made it much more likely for them to achieve a "light bulb" moment about how to move their body.

Module One B and Module Two: The Arm Swing Illusion are nearly complete, with a target release date for June 15. Module One B is about some of the basics of body motion, the three pre-swing fundamentals of grip, setup and aim, some basic swing theory, baseline balance and tempo, and other related topics. There is a "body of knowledge" about the golf swing and how to create a golf shot that is sorely lacking in the game of golf in general, and again - especially among mid to high handicaps, and Module One Parts A and B will cover that information. Module Two turned out even better than I expected, and covers the Arm Swing Illusion in depth, along with all of it's many ramifications on other parts of the golf swing.
[/quote]

Jim, I purchased your Great Shot ebook but it can get a little confusing without visuals. I'm really looking forward to your videos. Do you have titles and release dates for all the modules. (Just want to get an understanding of the entire program.) Also, have you discussed the costs of the modules? Thanks.
[/quote]

The whole program will be divided into ten modules, eleven really since we had to split Module One since it was too long for reasonable download time. The basic idea behind the program was to offer the experience of our Great Shot! golf swing/ballstriking school in a "virtual" format for those folks who just cannot make the trip in person to Oregon or Hawaii. At first we thought we would just hire a film crew to tape the entire three day golf school, 22.5 hours of actual instruction (and that does not even include lunch where the group is still talking golf!) but we quickly abandoned that idea for logistical reasons. But the content will be the same.

Module Three will be on the mechanics of the Pivot. Four on the Arms and Triangle. Five on the Wrists and Right Arm. Six through Ten will cover Balance, Rhythm, Tempo, Timing/Sequencing, How to Practice (range and home slow mo mirror work), Flaws and Fixes, Swing Illusions, and the Six Swing Mini-Segments.

Modules will be released for download from our site when completed, likely about one per six weeks throughout this summer and fall. DVD option will also be offered. Our goal is to have the last Module done by December 15 target release date. But it could take longer, so we will see. Weather is a factor filming in Oregon in the Fall and also finding time in my schedule for taping.

Cost per module will vary a bit depending on total viewing time of that module, in the $59.95-$89.95 range. Module One A is $69.95.
[/quote]

Will you need all the modules to understand your concept because that averages out at $770 for the full dvd package making it quite an expensive suite of golf dvds.

I'm intrigued enough to buy one or two but worried I'd need all of them for it to work?

Is the concept that complex to require 11 dad's or can you grasp the basics with a few and then add to it if needed?
[/quote]

Great question! Let me see if I can better explain what the whole video program is all about. For many years now, I have had prospective students call or email me to say something like "I would love to attend your golf swing/ballstriking school but I just cant afford the time or money or both to travel out to see you. Is there any kind of 'virtual' self-directed swing training program that you offer?". So in around 1998 I created a VHS and later DVD program for those kinds of folks. This is the new, vastly up-dated version of that program.

One of the basic concepts behind the program is that there exists a fairly large "body of knowledge" about golf swing fundamentals that are common (in a general sense) to most great ballstrikers, along with a parallel body of knowledge from scientific research on the golf swing. Those are the two main influences as far as content. The coaching perspective is simply that if you learn how to do ANYONE of those skills/fundamentals - whatever term you like - then you have increased the probability, on average and over time, of hitting higher quality golf shots.

Another basic concept is that there is a "natural learning sequence" as to how you would dole out that information to a beginner or higher handicap golfer, ie "first things first". (which certainly does NOT mean that this information only applies to those golfers, ie grip, for example. I work with 8 handicaps all the time who actually are using a grip that is so poor you would find it more often in an 25 cap,ie they are an 8 in spite of that bad grip and might be a 4 with a proper grip). Another is that some of those fundamentals or mechanical pieces have much more[i] influence over [/i]your shot outcome than others. And finally one last idea - that some of that information is ONLY effectively applicable to golfers of a certain skill level, ie advanced players mainly.

So I structured the content and the sequence of the modules to reflect all of those facts.

It is 90% "model" information but there will be a long module that covers Faults and Fixes. We may end up moving that one up in line, will decide shortly.
So for example the ninth module will be about some of the swing issues that are more common to advanced players like learning to harness and control the Dynamic Forces that affect advanced Release styles, pivot sequencing, etc and how that affects ball flight. So if you are a typical 20 handicap with a bad grip and setup, and poor balance, you would be crazy to buy that module!

It is not "my concept" but rather my "take" on how to help someone breakthrough to better ballstriking from a lot of different angles and techniques, ie lots of concepts, not just one. And tons of drills!

Each module is full of great information, so that you can start to see some level of improvement right away by working on those key areas covered in the module. And each module will have detailed description as to content on our website so that you will know what the basic subject matter is about before purchasing.

A beginner or higher handicap could start with module one a and b, and two on the arm swing illusion, and there is enough "stuff" in those first three modules to work on for 3-6 months of training, maybe even longer. A really good player may only want the ASI module and the last two, since he or she already has in place in their own golf swing, some of the basics of pivot/arm/wrist mechanics, they likely have a good grip and setup and aim, etc.

We will offer a large discount for purchasing all ten modules as a unit, won't know precisely what the exact cost will be until later this year when we are closer to completion, and it will include the Great Shot e-book, the two hour audio program on how to learn and train effectively, and possibly also include a one hour webcam live lesson with me. We are still working out the details on how to structure discounted pricing when buying multiple units, but it will happen.

If you PM me with a bit of info on your current handicap, 6 iron, 3 iron/hybrid and driver distances, and GIR stats, I can make a recommendation for which modules might be a good place to start.

When I find some time later in the week I will post a lot more on the content of the modules, and what skill level they are geared toward.

[Jim Waldron]

[quote name='4pillars' timestamp='1431881030' post='11573808']
I needed to do an index of the DVD so i could find the exercises again, so here are the timings.

00:00 Preface (Sub-concious vs concious learning)
02:13 Introduction to the six laws of club motion
06:23 Forward shaft lean
12:02 Drill Hinge and hold chip drill
15:26 Low point/angle of attack
23:08 drill How to take a divot drill
24:00 Shaft plane angle
31:01 Drill waist to waist swing drill
32:34 Plain board
43:47 The Plane shift
50:54 More on plane shift (Wild Bill Mehlhorn)
58:43 drill Hit Driver and lob wedge alternatively
60:00 Clubface angle control
01:20:41 Drill Forearm rotation
01:26:20 Clubhead acceleration
01:30:25 Short to long drill
01:32:23 Clubhead speed
01:37:57 Drill Anti stearing
[/quote]

Thanks for that! Good info to have....

[Silky]

[quote name='Jim Waldron' timestamp='1431831915' post='11571966']
..... I think I will start a Transition thread sometime this summer. It is a fascinating topic and often shrouded in myth and mystery for a lot of golfers. Lots of overlap there with the role of the arms, pivot, hit impulse, etc.

I think one useful analogy is driving a car onto the entrance ramp of a freeway, you are going the 35 mph speed limit while on the ramp, but you have to accelerate quickly - but not too quickly or you might lose control of the car ! - to keep pace with the flow of traffic on the freeway doing 70mph. Transition you are on the ramp, and when your left arm gets parallel to the ground or ideally a bit lower than that,ie hands around waist high, you really "fire" the Pivot Thrust to start doing 70mph. And of course you don't instantly go from 35 to 70, there is certainly a build-up of speed due to the nature of the car motor and transmission, but at some point after you arrive safely on the freeway and you "floor it" - that is like the Pivot Thrust.

It is a "violent wrenching movement" as the great Bobby Jones said. You can feel it in your core, almost like you have wet towels wrapped around your spine from mid-back to hips and you are twisting the towels to get the water to wring out. You feel a connection in your feet to the earth, almost like your feet are screwing themselves into the ground. You feel like you are squeezing your inner thighs together - Scissors Action. You will feel your belly button press into your spine.

When we do the Pivot Thrust segment of our Great Shot! golf school, the comments we here early on while doing these specific drills designed to "switch on" the core muscles and others used in pivot thrusting, are usually like"...are you kidding me? I have NEVER ever hit a golf ball using these muscles!"

Tilt Switch is in my experience both one of the most difficult swing concepts to deeply understand and also to train your body to execute. I had my first glimpse of this in a golf school with Mac O'Grady back in 1994 and had never heard of this concept until then (although he does not call it Tilt Switch). Like the ASI, Tilt Switch requires true 3D thinking to understand clearly. It also requires a foundation to be already in place - a rock solid Lower Body Stability Platform and really good sense of Balance.
[/quote]

I would love to buy your books and videos, but being an old retiree with no consistent income, I need to budget for that sometime in the near future. I know you love to teach and you must be a great teacher, so I am taking advantage of that for now.

Reading your post above, I couldn't resist trying that on my backyard net - "violent wrenching movement". I would like to experience that feeling in my old and worn out body. I interpreted that as the dynamic X-factor in full action. So I tried the extreme with the intention of moving my hips forward and rotate so that the right hip passing the ball while my back still facing the targets before the Pivot Thrust. And .... I discovered my upper body and arms and club being slung forward like the children from the middle to the end of the chain in the Follow the Leader Game, that they have little or no control of the motion. Although I managed to hit the ball, but I lost the control of the Pivot Thrust - no sense of the right upper arm, the shoulder girdle rotating, the release. I know that club release from about P6 forward is the motion of the club around the hands due to centrifugal force from the Pivot Thrust. So I need to moderate my Transition somewhat to allow that to happen under control, like you described?. In any case, I love the feel of the connectedness of motions from the ground the the club head. I feel this in my glutes and lower back muscles though, not in the stomach?

At the conceptual level, I view the Transition and the Tilt Switch as rotation near the body coronal plane seamlessly flowing into the Pivot Thrust which I view as the rotation in the body transverse plane. Correct?

[Jim Waldron]

[quote name='Silky' timestamp='1432008354' post='11583926']
[quote name='Jim Waldron' timestamp='1431831915' post='11571966']
..... I think I will start a Transition thread sometime this summer. It is a fascinating topic and often shrouded in myth and mystery for a lot of golfers. Lots of overlap there with the role of the arms, pivot, hit impulse, etc.

I think one useful analogy is driving a car onto the entrance ramp of a freeway, you are going the 35 mph speed limit while on the ramp, but you have to accelerate quickly - but not too quickly or you might lose control of the car ! - to keep pace with the flow of traffic on the freeway doing 70mph. Transition you are on the ramp, and when your left arm gets parallel to the ground or ideally a bit lower than that,ie hands around waist high, you really "fire" the Pivot Thrust to start doing 70mph. And of course you don't instantly go from 35 to 70, there is certainly a build-up of speed due to the nature of the car motor and transmission, but at some point after you arrive safely on the freeway and you "floor it" - that is like the Pivot Thrust.

It is a "violent wrenching movement" as the great Bobby Jones said. You can feel it in your core, almost like you have wet towels wrapped around your spine from mid-back to hips and you are twisting the towels to get the water to wring out. You feel a connection in your feet to the earth, almost like your feet are screwing themselves into the ground. You feel like you are squeezing your inner thighs together - Scissors Action. You will feel your belly button press into your spine.

When we do the Pivot Thrust segment of our Great Shot! golf school, the comments we here early on while doing these specific drills designed to "switch on" the core muscles and others used in pivot thrusting, are usually like"...are you kidding me? I have NEVER ever hit a golf ball using these muscles!"

Tilt Switch is in my experience both one of the most difficult swing concepts to deeply understand and also to train your body to execute. I had my first glimpse of this in a golf school with Mac O'Grady back in 1994 and had never heard of this concept until then (although he does not call it Tilt Switch). Like the ASI, Tilt Switch requires true 3D thinking to understand clearly. It also requires a foundation to be already in place - a rock solid Lower Body Stability Platform and really good sense of Balance.
[/quote]

I would love to buy your books and videos, but being an old retiree with no consistent income, I need to budget for that sometime in the near future. I know you love to teach and you must be a great teacher, so I am taking advantage of that for now.

Reading your post above, I couldn't resist trying that on my backyard net - "violent wrenching movement". I would like to experience that feeling in my old and worn out body. I interpreted that as the dynamic X-factor in full action. So I tried the extreme with the intention of moving my hips forward and rotate so that the right hip passing the ball while my back still facing the targets before the Pivot Thrust. And .... I discovered my upper body and arms and club being slung forward like the children from the middle to the end of the chain in the Follow the Leader Game, that they have little or no control of the motion. Although I managed to hit the ball, but I lost the control of the Pivot Thrust - no sense of the right upper arm, the shoulder girdle rotating, the release. I know that club release from about P6 forward is the motion of the club around the hands due to centrifugal force from the Pivot Thrust. So I need to moderate my Transition somewhat to allow that to happen under control, like you described?. In any case, I love the feel of the connectedness of motions from the ground the the club head. I feel this in my glutes and lower back muscles though, not in the stomach?

At the conceptual level, I view the Transition and the Tilt Switch as rotation near the body coronal plane seamlessly flowing into the Pivot Thrust which I view as the rotation in the body transverse plane. Correct?
[/quote]

Not quite on your last point. Depends on which body part you are talking about. Pivot Thrust includes weight shift, scissors action, right side tilt or bend, hip extension, and hip, core and torso rotation. It is always all three dimensions, but some more than others.
'
Core is most essential part of it, ie activating those muscles and feeling that fact.

Pivot Thrust is not as you described in the dynamic x factor, that is for Transition, and it just means using your core rotation and tailbone/hip girdle lateral shift while you still finish the last 10 degrees or so of backswing. And it sounds like you over did it. Not good on the body.

[Greyboy]

This is a very interesting concept. Admittingly, I've only grasped the backswing theory (or think I did) but my backswing has always been too far inside and around me, resulting to a tendancy to come over the top and hit some ugly pulls, or wipe across the ball with weak, thin slices.

I brought this concept to the range this morning, and had a really good session. I felt going back, that I was raising or pusing the club up, versus pulling it inside and around me. The club and my hands felt much more infront of my chest (versus way behind me) and it must have just been getting me into a better position for the downswing. My ball started on a better line (slightly right of the target vs often left of target) and the flight was a nice high draw. I even felt on several of the swings that my hands were effortlessly dropping on the downswing versus trying to muscle it from the top. That split second I noticed the weightless drop, I feel a little uncomfortable like I'm in a bad position (probably just because I'm not used to it) but the result of the ball flight doesn't lie.

Not really sure where I'm going, just rambling about how this little tid bit of information might have done wonders to my swing. It was only 1 day at the range though, and we all know what works one day isn't always the case for the next day. But hopefully this sticks a bit. I'd have to imagine I'm in a better position at the top and that it has to give me better results coming down.

[Jim Waldron]

[quote name='Greyboy' timestamp='1432219016' post='11600698']
This is a very interesting concept. Admittingly, I've only grasped the backswing theory (or think I did) but my backswing has always been too far inside and around me, resulting to a tendancy to come over the top and hit some ugly pulls, or wipe across the ball with weak, thin slices.

I brought this concept to the range this morning, and had a really good session. I felt going back, that I was raising or pusing the club up, versus pulling it inside and around me. The club and my hands felt much more infront of my chest (versus way behind me) and it must have just been getting me into a better position for the downswing. My ball started on a better line (slightly right of the target vs often left of target) and the flight was a nice high draw. I even felt on several of the swings that my hands were effortlessly dropping on the downswing versus trying to muscle it from the top. That split second I noticed the weightless drop, I feel a little uncomfortable like I'm in a bad position (probably just because I'm not used to it) but the result of the ball flight doesn't lie.

Not really sure where I'm going, just rambling about how this little tid bit of information might have done wonders to my swing. It was only 1 day at the range though, and we all know what works one day isn't always the case for the next day. But hopefully this sticks a bit. I'd have to imagine I'm in a better position at the top and that it has to give me better results coming down.
[/quote]

The main benefit of the pushaway of the arms is it makes it impossible to suck the arms in behind you. Which creates "space" for you to release on your forward swing, ie your body is not in the way of your hands/arms during the Release segment.

Great to hear the ASI concept is helping you - pretty cool! I suggest doing a bunch of mirror work on this before taking it to the range though.

[4pillars]

Jim

I am wondering if Dan of the Danplan has ever reached out to you, as he is Portland based. (His plan to reach Tour level golf in 10,000 hours.).

He is now at done over 5000 hrs but ever got better than a 3hcp and is stagnating and from an interview he recently did he is struggling with how to take from practice to the course.

[Jim Waldron]

[quote name='4pillars' timestamp='1432317541' post='11609344']
Jim

I am wondering if Dan of the Danplan has ever reached out to you, as he is Portland based. (His plan to reach Tour level golf in 10,000 hours.).

He is now at done over 5000 hrs but ever got better than a 3hcp and is stagnating and from an interview he recently did he is struggling with how to take from practice to the course.
[/quote]

Yes, Dan did contact me a few years ago about starting a coaching relationship, we emailed a couple of times, but he never followed through and ended up going with another local Portland teacher. Too bad as I have no doubt that I could have helped him in both his mechanical approach to a better golf swing and to how to master the mental game. Not everyone is ready for a truly brain-mind/body connection approach to learning golf. This is a 21st century approach to teaching/learning golf, and most of golf teaching is still stuck in 16th-20th century (at best 20th!, mostly earlier) paradigms about the use of the mind and how the body learns motor skills.

[4pillars]

[quote name='Jim Waldron' timestamp='1432344514' post='11611334']
[quote name='4pillars' timestamp='1432317541' post='11609344']
Jim

I am wondering if Dan of the Danplan has ever reached out to you, as he is Portland based. (His plan to reach Tour level golf in 10,000 hours.).

He is now at done over 5000 hrs but ever got better than a 3hcp and is stagnating and from an interview he recently did he is struggling with how to take from practice to the course.
[/quote]

Yes, Dan did contact me a few years ago about starting a coaching relationship, we emailed a couple of times, but he never followed through and ended up going with another local Portland teacher. Too bad as I have no doubt that I could have helped him in both his mechanical approach to a better golf swing and to how to master the mental game. Not everyone is ready for a truly brain-mind/body connection approach to learning golf. This is a 21st century approach to teaching/learning golf, and most of golf teaching is still stuck in 16th-20th century (at best 20th!, mostly earlier) paradigms about the use of the mind and how the body learns motor skills.
[/quote]

That's a real shame he didn't follow through with you. I have been following his path with interest unfortunately as an example of what not to do, but it would seem to me that you apprach is nearer the principle of deliberate practice than what he actually did.

[Jim Waldron]

[quote name='4pillars' timestamp='1432366650' post='11612458']
[quote name='Jim Waldron' timestamp='1432344514' post='11611334']
[quote name='4pillars' timestamp='1432317541' post='11609344']
Jim

I am wondering if Dan of the Danplan has ever reached out to you, as he is Portland based. (His plan to reach Tour level golf in 10,000 hours.).

He is now at done over 5000 hrs but ever got better than a 3hcp and is stagnating and from an interview he recently did he is struggling with how to take from practice to the course.
[/quote]

Yes, Dan did contact me a few years ago about starting a coaching relationship, we emailed a couple of times, but he never followed through and ended up going with another local Portland teacher. Too bad as I have no doubt that I could have helped him in both his mechanical approach to a better golf swing and to how to master the mental game. Not everyone is ready for a truly brain-mind/body connection approach to learning golf. This is a 21st century approach to teaching/learning golf, and most of golf teaching is still stuck in 16th-20th century (at best 20th!, mostly earlier) paradigms about the use of the mind and how the body learns motor skills.
[/quote]

That's a real shame he didn't follow through with you. I have been following his path with interest unfortunately as an example of what not to do, but it would seem to me that you apprach is nearer the principle of deliberate practice than what he actually did.
[/quote]

I agree. I was preaching the concept of Deep Practice, "reps", focused mind practice, no ball practice, Deep Insight, half speed swings with a ball, Feel Channel practice, slow motion mirror work as the keys to improvement way back in 1992 when I started my teaching career. I got a lot of that from the Asian martial arts tradition.

[Reasonability]

Jim from looking at your avatar - our respective ages are not too terribly different.

Can you comment on if or how these concepts can convert to action for those of us who are not spring chickens? Any challenges we have to be aware in terms of the mind (LOL - we all know the body is not what it used to be for us).

Thanks!

[Jim Waldron]

[quote name='Reasonability' timestamp='1432393788' post='11613436']
Jim from looking at your avatar - our respective ages are not too terribly different.

Can you comment on if or how these concepts can convert to action for those of us who are not spring chickens? Any challenges we have to be aware in terms of the mind (LOL - we all know the body is not what it used to be for us).

Thanks!
[/quote]

Yep, I will be 64 this year, so can relate to what you are saying. Nothing special for seniors as far as mental game or mental focus training. Just it can be a little harder to learn to tame a wandering mind as you age, since it can sometimes wander even more than in your younger years. I think just basic general anti-aging protocols will help - lower calorie diet is key. I use the alternate day fasting diet, where on my "fast" days I only eat around 600 calories. When I cheat, I end up with around 1,000. On the the "on" days you can eat as much as you want, from the approved foods list, and the occassional high calorie dessert. Fish oil in fairly high dosages, and natural anti-inflammation supplements like turmeric are really essential for brain health.

Daily mediation is something I advise all of my students to do, and I teach them my own method for how to do this. Ten minutes am and pm will keep your mind sharp and reduce "reactivity", ie emotional stress reactions.

[4pillars]

Jim

Going through the Great Shot manual again and your list of the contents of the videos you don't seem to put explicit attention on shot shaping (its obiivioulsy in the wrist rolling drill).

How important do you think shot shaping is and when should you start.

Also from a personal point of view I believe that the video on practice and slow motion work should appear much earlier on.

[Jim Waldron]

[quote name='4pillars' timestamp='1432465816' post='11617446']
Jim

Going through the Great Shot manual again and your list of the contents of the videos you don't seem to put explicit attention on shot shaping (its obiivioulsy in the wrist rolling drill).

How important do you think shot shaping is and when should you start.

Also from a personal point of view I believe that the video on practice and slow motion work should appear much earlier on.
[/quote]

Thanks for your feedback. Yes - we are moving that practice module up in the order. We thought it would be a good fit with the Flaws and Fixes module, but now are thinking maybe just make it a short and separate module. I do talk about this a lot on the two hour audio program that will be released soon. And there is some stuff on practice in module one part b as well.

Shot-shaping is an advanced skill set, so not covered explicitly in this program, which is more about learning the mechanics of the golf swing on a standard straight or nearly straight shot, ie slight draw for most, or optionally slight cut. With today's equipment, tough to really curve the ball, in any case. I think once you are down around a six index or so, then it can be reliably learned and used on the course. Just so many other more important skills to master until you do get to that level.

[starsail85]

Jim do you think its fair to say that even a six handicaper would be causing more trouble than benefit by trying to work the ball both ways?

[Jim Waldron]

[quote name='mizunostaffer' timestamp='1432585339' post='11624012']
Jim do you think its fair to say that even a six handicaper would be causing more trouble than benefit by trying to work the ball both ways?
[/quote]

Yes as far as a stock shot, especially approach shots into greens. Better to stick with just one shot shape - draw or cut. But learning to intentionally make the ball curve in a big way is a good skill to have when you need it, and most six handicaps will have the swing skill to support that learning.

[Jim Waldron]

Here is the Great Shot! video series breakdown by subject matter that I promised last week. First off, this NOT a "swing method" or "one magic move" approach - far from it. My approach is quite eclectic - if a swing concept or drill has a proven track record, I will use it. Rather, the Great Shot! ballstriking program is about the body of knowledge that includes all of the many essential fundamentals that great ballstriking demands, in three Master Fundamental categories: Mechanics, Balance and Coordination (sequencing, rhythm and tempo). You will see immediate results when incorporating any of the information in any of the Modules.

Module One Part A: The Six Laws of Club Motion covering how the club must move - and why - in order to hit solid golf shots. Available now from our website. One hour and forty minutes of viewing time. $69.95. http://www.balancepointgolf.com/index.php/pro-shop/golf-videos

Module One Part B: The Basics of Body Motion: swing theory, mechanics, Swing Map drills, Grip position/pressure points/overall pressure, baseline balance and tempo, aim and alignment, Setup, Finish. Release date is June 15.

Module Two: The Arm Swing Illusion. Release date is June 15.

Module Three: Pivot Mechanics including Spine Angle, Tilt Switch, Weight Shift, Hip/Core/Torso rotation, Left and Right Side Tilt, Pivot Thrust, etc.

Module Four: Arm Mechanics, Triangle, Arm Lag, SuperConnection.

Module Five: Wrist and Right Arm Angle Mechanics, including Release, forearm rotation, release points, etc.

Module Six: The Six Swing Segments - breaking the segments down into detailed mechanics. Advanced educated hands. Practice strategies.

Module Seven: Balance Module Eight: Tempo, Rhythm and Sequencing.

Module Nine: Flaws and Fixes.

Module Ten: Blending the Dynamic Forces, Advanced Sequencing and Release Types. Trouble Shots.

A two hour long audio file on learning and practice strategies will also be a part of the program, release date is June 15.

[4pillars]

Byeong-hun An who won at Wentworth must be close to you swing, although he claims to be using the A swing

[url="http://youtu.be/E9yL3QqnxBA"]http://youtu.be/E9yL3QqnxBA[/url]

swing starts at 15 seconds. very few Youtubes of him.

[Jim Waldron]

[quote name='4pillars' timestamp='1432847695' post='11645444']
Byeong-hun An who won at Wentworth must be close to you swing, although he claims to be using the A swing

[media=]http://youtu.be/E9yL3QqnxBA[/media]

swing starts at 15 seconds. very few Youtubes of him.
[/quote]

No, he is not a model for swing I advocate, at least not in any way representative of a pure model. Looks like he takes it inside the plane on takeaway.

Tons of much better examples on tour: Rose, Horschel, Rory, Haas, Scott, Stenson, Kymer.

[Jim Waldron]

I thought I would share this recent lesson experience with the forum, since it was such a perfect example of the toxic influence of the ASI in a young golfers swing. T is a 14 year old female golfer, on the high school golf team, playing for about two years, no formal instruction until working with me recently. She loves golf and wants to get better, and fast! Because she is young and flexible, she is able to move her arms sideways and around her body with almost NO PIVOT, only about 30 degrees of shoulder girdle rotation at the Top. Naturally, when I asked here about her own concept of what a good swing is all about, she told me tries to swing her arms "across my chest" as far as possible, and then reverse that move on the forward swing.

When I explained to her the concept of a proper Pivot - a spiral-shaped motion happening in 3D space - she was stunned.