The Arm Swing Illusion / Jim Waldron's Swing Philosophy

[Hilts1969]

I have spent a few days reading this thread and got up to about page 32 and have found it quite confusing in general, the backswing I find okay, by coincidence a few weeks ago I started my own backswing this way and shorter irons were the best strikes I have ever hit, however the longer clubs were a big slice

My problem is grasping what happens beyond parallel on the downswing, doing slow motion swings and not moving my arms or wrists has me going well beyond the ball, if I release my wrists downwards like chopping an axe or hitting a nail with a hammer I arrive at Impact though it looks like I would put a sliced spin on the ball even though it is square

Are there any videos on the downswing as the thread got a bit derailed for me with talk of biceps and too much technical talk

Also should my left wrist be flat as mine naturally cups, should I flatten it and if so when

Thanks in advance

[Jim Waldron]

[quote name='Hilts1969' timestamp='1433019157' post='11657114']
I have spent a few days reading this thread and got up to about page 32 and have found it quite confusing in general, the backswing I find okay, by coincidence a few weeks ago I started my own backswing this way and shorter irons were the best strikes I have ever hit, however the longer clubs were a big slice

My problem is grasping what happens beyond parallel on the downswing, doing slow motion swings and not moving my arms or wrists has me going well beyond the ball, if I release my wrists downwards like chopping an axe or hitting a nail with a hammer I arrive at Impact though it looks like I would put a sliced spin on the ball even though it is square

Are there any videos on the downswing as the thread got a bit derailed for me with talk of biceps and too much technical talk

Also should my left wrist be flat as mine naturally cups, should I flatten it and if so when

Thanks in advance
[/quote]

Sounds like you need a lesson. As I have said here before, this thread is not meant to be a substitute for an actual lesson but rather a general discussion of swing theory that can aid in helping golfers better understand the swing in a Big Picture kind of way.

Wrists moving downwards has to be blended in with a proper Pivot motion.

Bending back the right wrist will flatten the left wrist during the takeaway.

[fmzip]

Interesting discussion!

I've been plagued with pulling the hands across my body since I started this game 20 years ago. I tried everything and still haven't conquered it. It certainly is an illusion and am intrigued with this discussion.

Interestingly, I called into the golf channel about 10 years ago and was able to talk to David Leadbetter and posed my question. He suggested " pushing down and out" to push the right arm bent. I grasped what he was saying but just another tip that wasn't possible to implement fully. Now that I have read this thread, the illusion is becoming clearer. Can't wait to download a video when it becomes available on Jim's website later this month. Looking forward to the day I am no longer jammed in my backswing!

Jim, will there be some exercises in the video to groove this move?

[Jim Waldron]

[quote name='fmzip' timestamp='1433180262' post='11667420']
Interesting discussion!

I've been plagued with pulling the hands across my body since I started this game 20 years ago. I tried everything and still haven't conquered it. It certainly is an illusion and am intrigued with this discussion.

Interestingly, I called into the golf channel about 10 years ago and was able to talk to David Leadbetter and posed my question. He suggested " pushing down and out" to push the right arm bent. I grasped what he was saying but just another tip that wasn't possible to implement fully. Now that I have read this thread, the illusion is becoming clearer. Can't wait to download a video when it becomes available on Jim's website later this month. Looking forward to the day I am no longer jammed in my backswing!

Jim, will there be some exercises in the video to groove this move?
[/quote]

Yes - a lot of drills in the ASI video Module 2 to help to eliminate the Illusion from your subconscious Swing Map. It is going to be literally every single thing I know about the arm swing illusion and all of the many ramifications including how it affects right arm angle release and wrist angle release, arm to torso connection, arm lag, pivot thrust mechanics, and some related topics. When you finish watching this video - I think finished product will be around one hour 45 minutes viewing time - you will clearly be able to truly see through the Illusion in a way that just reading this thread does not permit.

[Silky]

Jim,

Please kindly reply to the following.

Which module of your training materials would you recommend for seasoned old golfers who are well-read since "the Search for a Perfect Golf Swing", Ben Hogan's "Five Lessons..", Joe Dante's "Four Magic Moves", etc.

What part of the body you define as Core?

How far can Transition can bring you in terms of club position before the Pivot Thrust?

Best regards

[Jim Waldron]

[quote name='Silky' timestamp='1433302748' post='11679510']
Jim,

Please kindly reply to the following.

Which module of your training materials would you recommend for seasoned old golfers who are well-read since "the Search for a Perfect Golf Swing", Ben Hogan's "Five Lessons..", Joe Dante's "Four Magic Moves", etc.

What part of the body you define as Core?

How far can Transition can bring you in terms of club position before the Pivot Thrust?

Best regards
[/quote]

Module One covers all the basic fundamental swing concepts, grip and grip pressure, Setup, aim, basic balance and tempo. The information becomes increasingly more technical and detailed in breaking down the mechanical parts of the swing in the later modules.

Core means from hips to bottom of the rib cage. Belly muscles, hips, glutes, and low back, side or QL muscles.

Transition brings your hands to about waist height where Pivot Thrust trigger happens

[fmzip]

I posted this in another thread but it may help people here.

 

 

 

Jim would most likely ask two questions:

 

1. Where is Dufner's sternum?

 

Try and imagine him without a shirt on.

His sternum is facing the camera. There is a 90 degree chest rotation away from his starting position.

 

2. Where are his right arm and both hands? Are they behind or in front of his chest?

 

When you can "see" in the depth dimension, it becomes obvious Dufner's hands and right and left arm are all in front of his chest. They aren't behind, not a bit and they are not even at the side of his torso. Just like a waiter holding a tray of food in front of the right side of his chest as he walks through the restaurant.

 

Great image! I am still 40 pages back and devouring this thread from start to finish. i got the concept from the early pages but truly "seeing it" is the difficult part. The pushing out at a 45 degree while rotating and looking in the mirror had me phyched from the beginning. How could it be that the club doesn't go outside the line with the proper rotation and remain on plane with a bit of an elbow fold?? :)

 

After seeing this image and sitting in my rotating office chair, I take my right arm I and put it in the tray position just like a waiter, leaving my right elbow 4-7 inches from side while facing the monitor . Then I bring my left arm and take my left thumb and hold onto it with my right hand, just like a grip or as depicted above I then rotate my chair to my right and viola! I can now clearly see that my arms are not behind me as I rotate! Even if I were to rotate 360 degrees like a cork screw, my arms would always be in front of me regardless of my degree of rotation. For some reason the free wheeling of the office chair rotating while focusing on my arms makes the illusion very understandable!

 

For those having a hard time seeing this, try the above to see if it helps you see the illusion. I can see how one could cry after struggling trying to get on plane on the back swing since day one. I for one have tried everything. What I thought I saw was impossible to implement based on my perception. Looking forward to that DVD release to work on some excercies to create some muscle memory! Might need to do a remote lesson as well. Good stuff Jim

[fmzip]

[quote name='Kiwi2' timestamp='1390454790' post='8514495']
[quote name='Marengo' timestamp='1390450797' post='8514121']
I am really having a tough time with the grip. I am thinking to myself to relax the hands. As soon as I get over the ball, I put the death grip on. I think this is one of the major reasons why I can't get my arms to do nothing. Are there any drills to help with grip pressure? I saw the one where you hold the club straight up and slowly relax the hands until the club drops a little. I can start with that feeling/pressure at set up but as soon as I start the backswing the grip tightens. It's like my hands won't listen to what my mind is saying.
[/quote]

Checking and learning the individual pressure points of the hands may help you.

Jim lists 7 of these:

1: The right thumb pad pressing down on the left thumb (assuming you are a righthander) so that the left thumb is totally covered. 3A
2: The heel of your right hand pressing sideways on the left thumb. 3B
3: The base of the right thumb and index finger pressing toward each other so that the gap is eliminated. 4A
4: The hook of the right index finger around the shaft 4B
5: the tips of the two middle fingers of both hands. 2
6:The little finger of the left hand pressing up against the left hand fleshy pad.1A
7: Sideways pressure of the tip sof both little fingers . 1B

The most pressure is applied at 3A, 1B and 1A
Medium pressure is applied at 2, 3B and 4A
Only a tiny mount of sideways pressure is applied at 4B

You learn to do this by concentrating on each of the pressure points alone with your eyes closed. noticing what happens to them as you swing.

Jim has a sequence as to how to learn these.

Those of you wishing to learn more can do so by obtaining Jim's manual.

[b]This information is Jim Waldron's intellectual property and protected by copyright. Please do the right thing and respect that. It is posted here to help members and should not be reproduced or shared with other people without Jim's written consent.[/b]
[/quote]

Where would I find images that coincide with these positions?

[fmzip]

Answered my own question^^^^^^^

http://www.golfwrx.com/forums/topic/292559-tgmstmorad-dictionary-of-terms/

[Jim Waldron]

[quote name='fmzip' timestamp='1433388382' post='11686402']
Answered my own question^^^^^^^

[url="http://www.golfwrx.com/forums/topic/292559-tgmstmorad-dictionary-of-terms/"]http://www.golfwrx.c...onary-of-terms/[/url]
[/quote]

Nope - different system of instruction.

[fmzip]

[quote name='Jim Waldron' timestamp='1433393216' post='11686746']
Nope - different system of instruction.
[/quote]


Could you point me in the right direction please?

Thanks

[Jim Waldron]

[quote name='fmzip' timestamp='1433419677' post='11687552']
[quote name='Jim Waldron' timestamp='1433393216' post='11686746']
Nope - different system of instruction.
[/quote]


Could you point me in the right direction please?

Thanks
[/quote]

All of the information on my concept of hands in the golf swing is in our training manual, which you can buy as an e-book download from our website at www.balancepointgolf.com.

[fmzip]

[quote name='Jim Waldron' timestamp='1433427098' post='11688264']
[quote name='fmzip' timestamp='1433419677' post='11687552']
[quote name='Jim Waldron' timestamp='1433393216' post='11686746']
Nope - different system of instruction.
[/quote]


Could you point me in the right direction please?

Thanks
[/quote]

All of the information on my concept of hands in the golf swing is in our training manual, which you can buy as an e-book download from our website at www.balancepointgolf.com.
[/quote]

Thanks Jim,

I will order both once the DVD is available

[Jim Waldron]

I posted this in another thread but it may help people here.

 

 

 

Jim would most likely ask two questions:

 

1. Where is Dufner's sternum?

 

Try and imagine him without a shirt on.

His sternum is facing the camera. There is a 90 degree chest rotation away from his starting position.

 

2. Where are his right arm and both hands? Are they behind or in front of his chest?

 

When you can "see" in the depth dimension, it becomes obvious Dufner's hands and right and left arm are all in front of his chest. They aren't behind, not a bit and they are not even at the side of his torso. Just like a waiter holding a tray of food in front of the right side of his chest as he walks through the restaurant.

 

Great image! I am still 40 pages back and devouring this thread from start to finish. i got the concept from the early pages but truly "seeing it" is the difficult part. The pushing out at a 45 degree while rotating and looking in the mirror had me phyched from the beginning. How could it be that the club doesn't go outside the line with the proper rotation and remain on plane with a bit of an elbow fold?? :)

 

After seeing this image and sitting in my rotating office chair, I take my right arm I and put it in the tray position just like a waiter, leaving my right elbow 4-7 inches from side while facing the monitor . Then I bring my left arm and take my left thumb and hold onto it with my right hand, just like a grip or as depicted above I then rotate my chair to my right and viola! I can now clearly see that my arms are not behind me as I rotate! Even if I were to rotate 360 degrees like a cork screw, my arms would always be in front of me regardless of my degree of rotation. For some reason the free wheeling of the office chair rotating while focusing on my arms makes the illusion very understandable!

 

For those having a hard time seeing this, try the above to see if it helps you see the illusion. I can see how one could cry after struggling trying to get on plane on the back swing since day one. I for one have tried everything. What I thought I saw was impossible to implement based on my perception. Looking forward to that DVD release to work on some excercies to create some muscle memory! Might need to do a remote lesson as well. Good stuff Jim

 

Sounds to me like you are seeing through the Illusion at a very high level!

 

One of the big root causes of the ASI is the need to keep your head steady, and your gaze fixed on an object at ground level ( I normally dont recommend the golf ball because it activates the Ball Bound Syndrome, which creates several toxic impulses) like a blade of grass.

 

You chest is rotating underneath your steady head, which makes it seem from your own first-person perspective, that your arms are "swinging" themselves sideways across your chest and "around" your chest.

[chigolfer1]

Jim, sorry to invade thread with out of the blue question, but I asked this in a non pinned topic that you probably won't see.

Is the right side bend after the tilt switch the same concept as Kelvin Miyahira's lateral bend? Also, is this effective at shallowing the shaft? It sure seems like it is.

Thanks in advance

[Jim Waldron]

[quote name='chigolfer1' timestamp='1433468930' post='11692390']
Jim, sorry to invade thread with out of the blue question, but I asked this in a non pinned topic that you probably won't see.

Is the right side bend after the tilt switch the same concept as Kelvin Miyahira's lateral bend? Also, is this effective at shallowing the shaft? It sure seems like it is.

Thanks in advance
[/quote]

I am not too familiar with Kelvin's stuff, but I would think it is indeed the same concept. Yes - it does shallow the shaft, when done correctly. The main thing is to understand that right side bend or tilt is NOT optional - rather required, no matter what Swing Style you are using. Most of my new students have never heard of it, mainly due to the widespread use of two dimensional thinking about the golf swing. This is one of main root causes for coming up out of Spine Angle, since right tilt actually replaces forward tilt from the hip sockets, during the forward swing from about halfway down or P6 until Finish.

It often is not so much EE or early extension as it is lack of replacing that EE (moving from hip flexion to extension, which must occur) with right tilt.

[chigolfer1]

Awesome stuff Jim, thanks. And I'd never heard of it characterized as right tilt "replacing" forward tilt but I can see exactly what you mean because Ive always wondered how you "keep your spine angle" but when you look at pros from halfway down to impact their lower backs through glutes are straight. (Hard to describe but hopefully you know what I'm getting at).

I also could never figure out how the pros get the look they get from impact to extension. I couldn't even do it in slow motion in front of a mirror so it was obvious I was missing something and, obviously if I couldn't figure out how to recreate it in slow motion, I had zero chance of incorporating into an actual swing. Well, with this right side bend, I can now at least approximate the look of a real golfer, which seems like a necessary step.




[quote name='Jim Waldron' timestamp='1433470799' post='11692620']
[quote name='chigolfer1' timestamp='1433468930' post='11692390']
Jim, sorry to invade thread with out of the blue question, but I asked this in a non pinned topic that you probably won't see.

Is the right side bend after the tilt switch the same concept as Kelvin Miyahira's lateral bend? Also, is this effective at shallowing the shaft? It sure seems like it is.

Thanks in advance
[/quote]

I am not too familiar with Kelvin's stuff, but I would think it is indeed the same concept. Yes - it does shallow the shaft, when done correctly. The main thing is to understand that right side bend or tilt is NOT optional - rather required, no matter what Swing Style you are using. Most of my new students have never heard of it, mainly due to the widespread use of two dimensional thinking about the golf swing. This is one of main root causes for coming up out of Spine Angle, since right tilt actually replaces forward tilt from the hip sockets, during the forward swing from about halfway down or P6 until Finish.

It often is not so much EE or early extension as it is lack of replacing that EE (moving from hip flexion to extension, which must occur) with right tilt.
[/quote]

[Jim Waldron]

[quote name='chigolfer1' timestamp='1433472067' post='11692768']
Awesome stuff Jim, thanks. And I'd never heard of it characterized as right tilt "replacing" forward tilt but I can see exactly what you mean because Ive always wondered how you "keep your spine angle" but when you look at pros from halfway down to impact their lower backs through glutes are straight. (Hard to describe but hopefully you know what I'm getting at).




[quote name='Jim Waldron' timestamp='1433470799' post='11692620']
[quote name='chigolfer1' timestamp='1433468930' post='11692390']
Jim, sorry to invade thread with out of the blue question, but I asked this in a non pinned topic that you probably won't see.

Is the right side bend after the tilt switch the same concept as Kelvin Miyahira's lateral bend? Also, is this effective at shallowing the shaft? It sure seems like it is.

Thanks in advance
[/quote]

I am not too familiar with Kelvin's stuff, but I would think it is indeed the same concept. Yes - it does shallow the shaft, when done correctly. The main thing is to understand that right side bend or tilt is NOT optional - rather required, no matter what Swing Style you are using. Most of my new students have never heard of it, mainly due to the widespread use of two dimensional thinking about the golf swing. This is one of main root causes for coming up out of Spine Angle, since right tilt actually replaces forward tilt from the hip sockets, during the forward swing from about halfway down or P6 until Finish.

It often is not so much EE or early extension as it is lack of replacing that EE (moving from hip flexion to extension, which must occur) with right tilt.
[/quote]
[/quote]

Yes, and this is a really, really Big Deal in golf instruction. One of the most common flaws, by far. EE is often mis-understood, in my opinion. It is NOT the way as commonly described sometimes on this and other forums. You need to learn how to keep your hip girdle/tailbone stable and still move from flexion into extension. We use the Wall drill in our golf schools. You position yourself so that your butt cheeks are about two inches from a wall, arms across the chest in an X shape, and then practice your Pivot. Your right butt cheek should touch the wall on the backswing, and your left butt cheek moves further away from the wall. On transition, your left butt cheek will touch the wall, and right butt cheek come off the wall a bit. From P6, you really start to tilt rightward as you move into extension, but you still need to keep that left butt cheek on the wall as you do this, at least until after impact.

The problem for a lot of golfers is, if they lack core/belly strength, or glute strength (often both), they will in fact move the butt cheeks toward the ball/target line AND not tilt right enough, which compounds the problem. Now if you dont throw the wrist c0ck angles away, you might actually whiff it.

My point being EE is not just hips moving away from the wall too early (one form of it) but rather you can keep the hips back but still come up too soon and/or not replace that with right tilt enough or soon enough.

[chigolfer1]

Do you advocate dead lifts, glute ham raises, etc for the posterior chain since so many of us lifelong desk jobbers likely have lower cross syndrome issues? I've been concentrating on that a lot, and combined with good instruction, it seems to have helped with the bad setup posture and EE I used to have. I'm just more comfortable being on my heels with butt back.



[quote name='Jim Waldron' timestamp='1433472661' post='11692818']
[quote name='chigolfer1' timestamp='1433472067' post='11692768']
Awesome stuff Jim, thanks. And I'd never heard of it characterized as right tilt "replacing" forward tilt but I can see exactly what you mean because Ive always wondered how you "keep your spine angle" but when you look at pros from halfway down to impact their lower backs through glutes are straight. (Hard to describe but hopefully you know what I'm getting at).




[quote name='Jim Waldron' timestamp='1433470799' post='11692620']
[quote name='chigolfer1' timestamp='1433468930' post='11692390']
Jim, sorry to invade thread with out of the blue question, but I asked this in a non pinned topic that you probably won't see.

Is the right side bend after the tilt switch the same concept as Kelvin Miyahira's lateral bend? Also, is this effective at shallowing the shaft? It sure seems like it is.

Thanks in advance
[/quote]

I am not too familiar with Kelvin's stuff, but I would think it is indeed the same concept. Yes - it does shallow the shaft, when done correctly. The main thing is to understand that right side bend or tilt is NOT optional - rather required, no matter what Swing Style you are using. Most of my new students have never heard of it, mainly due to the widespread use of two dimensional thinking about the golf swing. This is one of main root causes for coming up out of Spine Angle, since right tilt actually replaces forward tilt from the hip sockets, during the forward swing from about halfway down or P6 until Finish.

It often is not so much EE or early extension as it is lack of replacing that EE (moving from hip flexion to extension, which must occur) with right tilt.
[/quote]
[/quote]

Yes, and this is a really, really Big Deal in golf instruction. One of the most common flaws, by far. EE is often mis-understood, in my opinion. It is NOT the way as commonly described sometimes on this and other forums. You need to learn how to keep your hip girdle/tailbone stable and still move from flexion into extension. We use the Wall drill in our golf schools. You position yourself so that your butt cheeks are about two inches from a wall, arms across the chest in an X shape, and then practice your Pivot. Your right butt cheek should touch the wall on the backswing, and your left butt cheek moves further away from the wall. On transition, your left butt cheek will touch the wall, and right butt cheek come off the wall a bit. From P6, you really start to tilt rightward as you move into extension, but you still need to keep that left butt cheek on the wall as you do this, at least until after impact.

The problem for a lot of golfers is, if they lack core/belly strength, or glute strength (often both), they will in fact move the butt cheeks toward the ball/target line AND not tilt right enough, which compounds the problem. Now if you dont throw the wrist c0ck angles away, you might actually whiff it.

My point being EE is not just hips moving away from the wall too early (one form of it) but rather you can keep the hips back but still come up too soon and/or not replace that with right tilt enough or soon enough.
[/quote]

[Jim Waldron]

[quote name='chigolfer1' timestamp='1433473345' post='11692872']
Do you advocate dead lifts, glute ham raises, etc for the posterior chain since so many of us lifelong desk jobbers likely have lower cross syndrome issues? I've been concentrating on that a lot, and combined with good instruction, it seems to have helped with the bad setup posture and EE I used to have. I'm just more comfortable being on my heels with butt back.



[quote name='Jim Waldron' timestamp='1433472661' post='11692818']
[quote name='chigolfer1' timestamp='1433472067' post='11692768']
Awesome stuff Jim, thanks. And I'd never heard of it characterized as right tilt "replacing" forward tilt but I can see exactly what you mean because Ive always wondered how you "keep your spine angle" but when you look at pros from halfway down to impact their lower backs through glutes are straight. (Hard to describe but hopefully you know what I'm getting at).




[quote name='Jim Waldron' timestamp='1433470799' post='11692620']
[quote name='chigolfer1' timestamp='1433468930' post='11692390']
Jim, sorry to invade thread with out of the blue question, but I asked this in a non pinned topic that you probably won't see.

Is the right side bend after the tilt switch the same concept as Kelvin Miyahira's lateral bend? Also, is this effective at shallowing the shaft? It sure seems like it is.

Thanks in advance
[/quote]

I am not too familiar with Kelvin's stuff, but I would think it is indeed the same concept. Yes - it does shallow the shaft, when done correctly. The main thing is to understand that right side bend or tilt is NOT optional - rather required, no matter what Swing Style you are using. Most of my new students have never heard of it, mainly due to the widespread use of two dimensional thinking about the golf swing. This is one of main root causes for coming up out of Spine Angle, since right tilt actually replaces forward tilt from the hip sockets, during the forward swing from about halfway down or P6 until Finish.

It often is not so much EE or early extension as it is lack of replacing that EE (moving from hip flexion to extension, which must occur) with right tilt.
[/quote]
[/quote]

Yes, and this is a really, really Big Deal in golf instruction. One of the most common flaws, by far. EE is often mis-understood, in my opinion. It is NOT the way as commonly described sometimes on this and other forums. You need to learn how to keep your hip girdle/tailbone stable and still move from flexion into extension. We use the Wall drill in our golf schools. You position yourself so that your butt cheeks are about two inches from a wall, arms across the chest in an X shape, and then practice your Pivot. Your right butt cheek should touch the wall on the backswing, and your left butt cheek moves further away from the wall. On transition, your left butt cheek will touch the wall, and right butt cheek come off the wall a bit. From P6, you really start to tilt rightward as you move into extension, but you still need to keep that left butt cheek on the wall as you do this, at least until after impact.

The problem for a lot of golfers is, if they lack core/belly strength, or glute strength (often both), they will in fact move the butt cheeks toward the ball/target line AND not tilt right enough, which compounds the problem. Now if you dont throw the wrist c0ck angles away, you might actually whiff it.

My point being EE is not just hips moving away from the wall too early (one form of it) but rather you can keep the hips back but still come up too soon and/or not replace that with right tilt enough or soon enough.
[/quote]
[/quote]

Yes - basically core workouts, including glutes, hip flexors/extensors, oblique abs. Doing the wall drill with moving from flexion into extension alternatively at a fast pace while keeping both butt cheeks on the wall is a good exercise. Can also be done with a heavy bar across the shoulders for more load.

[4pillars]

[quote]Yes - basically core workouts, including glutes, hip flexors/extensors, oblique abs. Doing the wall drill with moving from flexion into extension alternatively at a fast pace while keeping both butt cheeks on the wall is a good exercise. Can also be done with a heavy bar across the shoulders for more load.[/quote]

What you want are kettlebells - glutes and core

[chigolfer1]

Agreed, I do kettleball swings every time I deadlift.

Since I am mostly trying to stay in shape for basketball, skiing (and golf believe it or not) I have almost completely given up bench, curls and other "vanity" lifts that will just make me slower.


Some are naturally strong and/or don't sit at a desk all day so don't need it. For everyone else, I think it would really be beneficial. I realize guys like Jack never lifted a weight in their lives but fall in the naturaly strong category. And keep in mind strong doesn't necessarily equal big.





[quote name='4pillars' timestamp='1433533576' post='11696804']
[quote]Yes - basically core workouts, including glutes, hip flexors/extensors, oblique abs. Doing the wall drill with moving from flexion into extension alternatively at a fast pace while keeping both butt cheeks on the wall is a good exercise. Can also be done with a heavy bar across the shoulders for more load.[/quote]

What you want are kettlebells - glutes and core
[/quote]

[Jim Waldron]

[quote name='chigolfer1' timestamp='1433536667' post='11697046']
Agreed, I do kettleball swings every time I deadlift.

Since I am mostly trying to stay in shape for basketball, skiing (and golf believe it or not) I have almost completely given up bench, curls and other "vanity" lifts that will just make me slower.


Some are naturally strong and/or don't sit at a desk all day so don't need it. For everyone else, I think it would really be beneficial. I realize guys like Jack never lifted a weight in their lives but fall in the naturaly strong category. And keep in mind strong doesn't necessarily equal big.





[quote name='4pillars' timestamp='1433533576' post='11696804']
[quote]Yes - basically core workouts, including glutes, hip flexors/extensors, oblique abs. Doing the wall drill with moving from flexion into extension alternatively at a fast pace while keeping both butt cheeks on the wall is a good exercise. Can also be done with a heavy bar across the shoulders for more load.[/quote]

What you want are kettlebells - glutes and core
[/quote]
[/quote]

I am waiting on trying kettleball swings until I fix a recurring low back injury. But I do deep squats with heels flat on the ground twice a day with a 15lb long bar over my shoulders. It is a great exercise for the golfing muscles, especially glutes stabilization.

[fmzip]

While watching a gazillion backswings from behind on the LPGA and PGA tours these past few days, a commercial popped onto the screen. I think this image clearly helps see the illusion. The depth of the arms from the body is clear as day. The arms are definitely not behind the player. Hard to get stuck from here....

 

[Kuuuch]

Might be way off here and if I am no offense will be taken as I am going to purchase the downloadable document on the arm illusion soon to gain a better understanding.

My focus has been the backswing in which I've dealt with the hands being sucked inside (rolling the left wrist/arm coming across chest) resulting in a draw that is sometimes uncontrollable (when I'm not compensating enough to get the club back on plane). Today was the first time I played after working on the arm illusion and getting the club back on plane. I have been going off feel and unfortunately unable to record a video of my swing. However, something worked today as I played for the first time in 2 weeks and shot a 73. I missed only a few fairways all day and when I felt like I had a proper takeaway, my ball flight was straight with a little tale at the end. I even was able to hit a fade and not a push fade for the first time in forever.

Here's been my focus:[list]
[*]Pushing club away from body and coil at same time
[*]More cupping of the left wrist to prevent wrist from rolling and helps me keep thumbs vertical
[*]Left arm is connected to the left side of my pec at address
[/list]
Most shots even sounded different today than usual, you could hear the "whoosh" after contact. Hoping I'm on the right track but open to any suggestions! Once my playing partners are able to go with me to the range I'll post a video.

[Jim Waldron]

[quote name='Kuchhhhhh' timestamp='1433562755' post='11699006']
Might be way off here and if I am no offense will be taken as I am going to purchase the downloadable document on the arm illusion soon to gain a better understanding.

My focus has been the backswing in which I've dealt with the hands being sucked inside (rolling the left wrist/arm coming across chest) resulting in a draw that is sometimes uncontrollable (when I'm not compensating enough to get the club back on plane). Today was the first time I played after working on the arm illusion and getting the club back on plane. I have been going off feel and unfortunately unable to record a video of my swing. However, something worked today as I played for the first time in 2 weeks and shot a 73. I missed only a few fairways all day and when I felt like I had a proper takeaway, my ball flight was straight with a little tale at the end. I even was able to hit a fade and not a push fade for the first time in forever.

Here's been my focus:[list]
[*]Pushing club away from body and coil at same time
[*]More cupping of the left wrist to prevent wrist from rolling and helps me keep thumbs vertical
[*]Left arm is connected to the left side of my pec at address
[/list]
Most shots even sounded different today than usual, you could hear the "whoosh" after contact. Hoping I'm on the right track but open to any suggestions! Once my playing partners are able to go with me to the range I'll post a video.
[/quote]


Sounds like you have the basic idea. I always recommend though to students who are new to the concept to spend quite a bit of time practicing the takeaway in slow motion first in a mirror for real time visual feedback, rather than "taking it to the course (or even the range)" first and simply thinking about doing the move or intending to do the new move. The reason is that you can intend to do the new move and your body very well might still do your old move. And you wont know it, may hit some bad shots and then falsely conclude that the "new move" does not work. It does work, of course, but ONLY if your body is actually doing it. Videotape will show you.

[Jim Waldron]

While watching a gazillion backswings from behind on the LPGA and PGA tours these past few days, a commercial popped onto the screen. I think this image clearly helps see the illusion. The depth of the arms from the body is clear as day. The arms are definitely not behind the player. Hard to get stuck from here....

 

 

Great pic, that clearly demonstrates what actually should happen with arms v body in the backswing!

[Kuuuch]

[quote name='Jim Waldron' timestamp='1433622292' post='11701828']
[quote name='Kuchhhhhh' timestamp='1433562755' post='11699006']
Might be way off here and if I am no offense will be taken as I am going to purchase the downloadable document on the arm illusion soon to gain a better understanding.

My focus has been the backswing in which I've dealt with the hands being sucked inside (rolling the left wrist/arm coming across chest) resulting in a draw that is sometimes uncontrollable (when I'm not compensating enough to get the club back on plane). Today was the first time I played after working on the arm illusion and getting the club back on plane. I have been going off feel and unfortunately unable to record a video of my swing. However, something worked today as I played for the first time in 2 weeks and shot a 73. I missed only a few fairways all day and when I felt like I had a proper takeaway, my ball flight was straight with a little tale at the end. I even was able to hit a fade and not a push fade for the first time in forever.

Here's been my focus:[list]
[*]Pushing club away from body and coil at same time
[*]More cupping of the left wrist to prevent wrist from rolling and helps me keep thumbs vertical
[*]Left arm is connected to the left side of my pec at address
[/list]
Most shots even sounded different today than usual, you could hear the "whoosh" after contact. Hoping I'm on the right track but open to any suggestions! Once my playing partners are able to go with me to the range I'll post a video.
[/quote]


Sounds like you have the basic idea. I always recommend though to students who are new to the concept to spend quite a bit of time practicing the takeaway in slow motion first in a mirror for real time visual feedback, rather than "taking it to the course (or even the range)" first and simply thinking about doing the move or intending to do the new move. The reason is that you can intend to do the new move and your body very well might still do your old move. And you wont know it, may hit some bad shots and then falsely conclude that the "new move" does not work. It does work, of course, but ONLY if your body is actually doing it. Videotape will show you.
[/quote]

Thanks Jim and I'm looking forward to seeing a video. I've thought before that I've found the new move as you speak of and all I did was delay the time it took before the club got sucked back inside. Definitely takes a lot of work and might be awhile before it happens subconsciously but I'm excited to work on it.

[Jim Waldron]

[quote name='Kuchhhhhh' timestamp='1433653159' post='11704200']
[quote name='Jim Waldron' timestamp='1433622292' post='11701828']
[quote name='Kuchhhhhh' timestamp='1433562755' post='11699006']
Might be way off here and if I am no offense will be taken as I am going to purchase the downloadable document on the arm illusion soon to gain a better understanding.

My focus has been the backswing in which I've dealt with the hands being sucked inside (rolling the left wrist/arm coming across chest) resulting in a draw that is sometimes uncontrollable (when I'm not compensating enough to get the club back on plane). Today was the first time I played after working on the arm illusion and getting the club back on plane. I have been going off feel and unfortunately unable to record a video of my swing. However, something worked today as I played for the first time in 2 weeks and shot a 73. I missed only a few fairways all day and when I felt like I had a proper takeaway, my ball flight was straight with a little tale at the end. I even was able to hit a fade and not a push fade for the first time in forever.

Here's been my focus:[list]
[*]Pushing club away from body and coil at same time
[*]More cupping of the left wrist to prevent wrist from rolling and helps me keep thumbs vertical
[*]Left arm is connected to the left side of my pec at address
[/list]
Most shots even sounded different today than usual, you could hear the "whoosh" after contact. Hoping I'm on the right track but open to any suggestions! Once my playing partners are able to go with me to the range I'll post a video.
[/quote]


Sounds like you have the basic idea. I always recommend though to students who are new to the concept to spend quite a bit of time practicing the takeaway in slow motion first in a mirror for real time visual feedback, rather than "taking it to the course (or even the range)" first and simply thinking about doing the move or intending to do the new move. The reason is that you can intend to do the new move and your body very well might still do your old move. And you wont know it, may hit some bad shots and then falsely conclude that the "new move" does not work. It does work, of course, but ONLY if your body is actually doing it. Videotape will show you.
[/quote]

Thanks Jim and I'm looking forward to seeing a video. I've thought before that I've found the new move as you speak of and all I did was delay the time it took before the club got sucked back inside. Definitely takes a lot of work and might be awhile before it happens subconsciously but I'm excited to work on it.
[/quote]


I think once you really are able to see through the Illusion - and the related illusions of arm lag, wrist c0ck release, connection and right arm angle release - that the slow mo practice becomes much easier and the changes are made at a much faster rate. Watching the new ASI video a few times from start to finish will likely uproot at least 90% of the Illusion from your subconscious. Then it just takes some practice getting used to the new feels.

[fmzip]

[quote name='Jim Waldron' timestamp='1433731904' post='11708820']Watching the new ASI video a few times from start to finish will likely uproot at least 90% of the Illusion from your subconscious. Then it just takes some practice getting used to the new feels.
[/quote]

Eagerly waiting for that video! Is it still on target for June 30th? Any hope for it coming out sooner?