Game Golf tracking system (merged)

[Dan Drake]

I wasn't really into debating the merits of strokes gained, but more along the lines of how much Game Golf info is usable in calculation strokes gained using the least amount of additional things to do on the course.

For instance, you jot down the length of the hole on your "strokes gained" card, then use Game Golf normally. When you get to the green, you jot down your distances on your SG card. After the round, you use your Game Golf track to fill in the remainder of your SG card.

Would that work?

[TimAZ]

[quote name='Dan Drake' timestamp='1420209598' post='10674043']
I wasn't really into debating the merits of strokes gained, but more along the lines of how much Game Golf info is usable in calculation strokes gained using the least amount of additional things to do on the course.

For instance, you jot down the length of the hole on your "strokes gained" card, then use Game Golf normally. When you get to the green, you jot down your distances on your SG card. After the round, you use your Game Golf track to fill in the remainder of your SG card.

Would that work?
[/quote]

Specifically, you need the distance to the hole for each shot.

Here's the thread with the (amazing) spreadsheet that will do the tricky math for you. And it also has a sheet you can print out to record stats while you're on the course. It's not too much work, but enough taht I don't want to mess with it when I'm playing with friends. And it does allow you to compare each shot to your own averages, I believe.

[indent=1][url="http://www.golfwrx.com/forums/topic/1094857-ive-developed-a-strokes-gained-spreadsheet-and-anyone-interested-can-use-it/"]http://www.golfwrx.com/forums/topic/1094857-ive-developed-a-strokes-gained-spreadsheet-and-anyone-interested-can-use-it/[/url][/indent]

And here's my feature request to show distance remaining for each shot, which would make it possible to enter your data after your round without having to record anything while you're on the course:

[indent=1][url="http://myexperience.gamegolf.com/forums/236342-feature-requests/suggestions/6811402-distance-remaining-after-each-shot"]http://myexperience.gamegolf.com/forums/236342-feature-requests/suggestions/6811402-distance-remaining-after-each-shot[/url][/indent]

There is at least one feature request for Shots Gained support, but I don't have the link handy. But I believe it's one of the highest "upvoted" requests, so it should be easy to find. In my opinion, GG's "compare" feature is a great first step, but strokes gained would be great.

Tim

[TimAZ]

I'll take a crack at this, though I'm not 100% sold on strokes gained and can't claim to have a depth of understanding of the approach.

Broadie looked at all of the data and established the average number of strokes it takes a PGA Tour pro to hole out from any given distance (and lie). This average is based on data from a variety of courses, players, and tournaments. So for example, it shows that if the ball is 200 yards out and in the fairway, the PGA Tour average is 3.19 strokes to finish. If you are 200 yards out and in the fairway, and you hole out in three strokes, you've "gained" .19 strokes--you were .19 strokes better than the PGA Tour average. If you take 5 shots from there, you "lost" 1.81 strokes to the PGA Tour average.

The math gets a little trickier as you look at the next shot. If you are 200 out and in the fairway, and you that ball and leave yourself a 20 yard shot from the rough, you look at the average from there: the PGA Tour average for a ball 20 yards out and in the rough is 2.59 strokes to finish. So you went from 3.19 to 2.59, a difference of .6, but you used a full stroke to do it. So on that shot, you "lost" .4 strokes--it was worse than the tour average. So the approach gives you a reference against which you can compare each individual shot from your round.

Anyway, I don't mean to sidetrack the thread. Broadie's book is worth a read in my opinion, even if you don't buy into it or, like me, you don't want to put forth the effort to gather the data every time you play. In my case, my game is bad all over, but I figure I'll revisit it down the road. Here's one more relevant thread:

[indent=1][url="http://www.golfwrx.com/forums/topic/1089289-ive-gone-100-to-strokes-gained-for-stats-from-tee-to-green-heres-how/"]http://www.golfwrx.c...reen-heres-how/[/url][/indent]

I apologize for keeping us off-topic, and for somewhat duplicate content. I just thought it might be useful to hear another description.

Cheers!
Tim

[i]Edit to add: Math is not my friend, please speak up if I've made a mistake![/i]

[Dan Drake]

Tim, Thank you! I hadn't even thought about just asking the Game Golf guys to help us. I spoke to Michael from Game Golf a while ago and he said there is more they can get the product to do, so hopefully this is included. I got all the good stuff of the links you provided and upvoted your request.

Dan

[putts4bogey]

An inquiry for the users. I've heard great things about the product, but also heard there are issues at some of the golf courses with more than 18 holes. I'm not sure if that is current or even true, but my home course has 27 holes with a few parallel fairways...any issues with proper tracking?

[minteq]

I got mine this week, but I am on the fence about returning it. I have read mixed reviews, some say it's great, others say it's a pain.

For those of you that have it, is it worth it? Have you or can you see your game improving because of this? Does the info that it provides give you a good indication of weak areas?

Thanks in advance for the help.

[techjunkee]

I like it, and can't really imagine playing golf without it. And will greatly help areas of your game over time.

[Skyboxer]

I also love mine. [quote name='techjunkee' timestamp='1420741396' post='10709627']
I like it, and can't really imagine playing golf without it. And will greatly help areas of your game over time.
[/quote]

Same here. Really love it so far.
We have a small course (Was 9 par 3's but they added 3 par 4's) where it was only mapped for the 9 original holes. Submitted the course to GG for changes and it was completed in a couple days.

Only used twice so far but really love the data it gives me so far. Neat device.

[Colby327]

[quote name='putts4bogey' timestamp='1420663822' post='10703473']
An inquiry for the users. I've heard great things about the product, but also heard there are issues at some of the golf courses with more than 18 holes. I'm not sure if that is current or even true, but my home course has 27 holes with a few parallel fairways...any issues with proper tracking?
[/quote]

I haven't had any issues with other holes or parallel fairways. Even if you did, you could manually make the changes/corrections after the round. Its pretty easy.

The hardest thing for me is remembering to tag shots. I get caught up in the round, or talking to people, and forget a tag once and awhile.

[putts4bogey]

Thanks for the reply, Colby.

[minteq]

Thanks for the replies, I am going to keep it and see if it helps me

[TimAZ]

[size=3]I logged my 20th round on Game Golf today and thought I would take a few minutes to sum up my experience so far. I suppose this is mostly of interest for potential buyers I’d definitely love to hear what other users think, especially in regards to statistics (at the end of this long post).[/size]

[size=3][b]TL;DR - love it so far, but wish there were more stats available[/b][/size]

[size=3][b]Hardware:[/b] The tags were easy to install and the main unit doesn’t bother me during a round, which was a concern at first. In fact, most people I play with have no idea I use GG until I mention it. I would prefer black tags, but I understand why GG makes them red. They do become a conversation piece when people notice them. No problems with durability or build quality.[/size]

[size=3][b]Tagging:[/b] This was a little iffy the first time, but tagging is pretty automatic now. I make one or two mistakes per round, but extra tags are easy to fix (or prevent, using the device’s green light) and the swing detection feature has been spot on for missed tags. I frequently play practice rounds and hit multiple balls per hole, and this can be a bit of a hassle. I’d love to see a graceful way to handle this, but I don’t know what that would be. It does handle jumping around and replaying holes (there’s a local course that offers unlimited play for a day for a flat fee, so this is useful). Incidentally, I tag when I first approach the ball with my club, not really as part of my pre-shot routine. In my case, GG adds no time to my round, which I know is a concern for some potential customers.[/size]

[size=3][b]Battery: [/b]Never had a problem with the battery dying, but I am surprised at how low it is after a single round. [/size]

[size=3][b]GPS Accuracy: [/b]I know others have mentioned problems, but it’s been accurate for me. I don’t pause or “wait for the GPS to catch up” or anything. I figure that GPS hardware these days has no trouble “keeping up” with me when I run or ride in my car, so I see no reason this family sizable device can’t keep up with my walking pace. As often noted, GPS technology (overall, not just GG) is insufficient for meaningful putting data.[/size]

[size=3][b]Transferring data: [/b]I occasionally (1 in 5 times, perhaps) have to unplug and re-connect the device when I get home and transfer, but I’ve never lost data or anything.[/size]

[size=3][b]Customer service: [/b]My one customer service experience was outstanding. On the Saturday of Thanksgiving weekend, I played a course with a funky layout and some of the holes were in the wrong order in GG. I opened a ticket late Saturday night, and got an email first thing Monday morning that the problem—and my round—was corrected. And I like that they have a public log of feature requests, with a voting system that allows users to request additions.[/size]

[size=3][b]Social Networking (and coaching):[/b] I don’t use much social media, and have no desire to post golf crap on Facebook wall, so I don’t use any of that kind of stuff. I was a little hesitant about privacy issues with GG, but it turns out that making rounds public has been a good thing—my teaching pro bookmarked my profile and seems to check in on it regularly. Sometimes after a round he’ll send me an email (“bring your 7-iron next time”, etc). I think there’s a ton of potential here for instructors gain insight into what’s really happening on the course.[/size]

[size=3][b]iPhone app: [/b]I don’t have and Android or iPhone, but I put the iPhone app on my iPad. It seems nice, but I don’t use it enough to have a strong opinion on it.[/size]

[size=3][b]Reviewing/signing a round:[/b] I find the process very straightforward. I use a Garmin GPS to get distances and keep score during the round, so I usually pull up my Garmin data side-by-side with the GG data and quickly run through the review process. I don’t find it to be long, and actually enjoy it. It makes me realize how little I used to reflect on rounds after they were finished. Now I find myself looking at my decisions and my poor shots, which is a good thing. I usually have one or two shots that I manually adjust in order to ensure that fairway accuracy and sand shots are registered correctly, but it’s not a big deal. Once I noticed that the data at the bottom of the screen changed to indicate the lie (i.e., “sand save” appears if you move the tag into a bunker, “scrambling” appears if you move it off the green, etc) it became that much quicker.[/size]

[size=3][b]Stats:[/b] So this is the important part to me. I love the stats GG has implemented so far. I especially love the Compare feature. I don’t care how I stack up against a pro, but I love comparing myself to different benchmarks. I want to get my average below 90, so I compare my stats to golfers who average 85-90 and see where I need the most work. I also like the Insights features that show dispersions (and associated data). However, I feel like there is so much more this product could do with the data. Much of what’s available is what I think of as “old school” golf data: fairway accuracy, average driving distance, average score, sand save %, etc. I would love to see more “advanced” metrics. Ideally, this might be Shots Gained, as has been discussed in this thread. I know that the putting data is problematic, but all other shots could be easily measured with this methodology—putting is a big thing to leave out, but the data would work without it. How many strokes do I lose off the tee compared to golfers 10 strokes better than me? Which is a bigger weakness, my approach shots or my short game? Did I perform better with my hybrids today than I did last week?[/size]

[size=3]Short of that, there’s a ton of other stuff that could be gleaned, such as GIR+1 or NGIR, both of which are useful to a high handicapper like me who rarely hits a green in regulation. Look at the type of stats OOBGolf is able to track ([url="http://www.oobgolf.com/golfers/stats/available_stats.php"]http://www.oobgolf.c...lable_stats.php[/url]), and that’s without any GPS data. Certainly some of that is unnecessary, but the point is that with a GPS location (and club selection) for every shot in a round, we should be able to get so much more than “Hey look, I averaged 1.9 putts per hole today.” This isn’t so much a complaint as it is wistfulness—I can only imagine how insightful this data could be if we had access to it.[/size]

[size=3][b]Bottom line:[/b] I do love GG, and I do think it gives me valuable insights into my game. However, when friends ask about it I can't quite give it an unqualified recommendation. For data nerds like me, it's a no-brainer. At $120, as it was during the Amazon flash sale, it's a no-brainer. At $200 for casual golfers who aren't that into gadgetry and/or stats, it's more of a toss up. I don't think it's that far off though, and I expect the website to keep improving. [/size]

[size=3]Anyway, just my two cents.[/size]

[size=3]Tim[/size]

[minteq]

[quote name='TimAZ' timestamp='1420948751' post='10725195']

[size=3]I logged my 20th round on Game Golf today and thought I would take a few minutes to sum up my experience so far. I suppose this is mostly of interest for potential buyers I’d definitely love to hear what other users think, especially in regards to statistics (at the end of this long post).[/size]

[size=3][b]TL;DR - love it so far, but wish there were more stats available[/b][/size]

[size=3][b]Hardware:[/b] The tags were easy to install and the main unit doesn’t bother me during a round, which was a concern at first. In fact, most people I play with have no idea I use GG until I mention it. I would prefer black tags, but I understand why GG makes them red. They do become a conversation piece when people notice them. No problems with durability or build quality.[/size]

[size=3][b]Tagging:[/b] This was a little iffy the first time, but tagging is pretty automatic now. I make one or two mistakes per round, but extra tags are easy to fix (or prevent, using the device’s green light) and the swing detection feature has been spot on for missed tags. I frequently play practice rounds and hit multiple balls per hole, and this can be a bit of a hassle. I’d love to see a graceful way to handle this, but I don’t know what that would be. It does handle jumping around and replaying holes (there’s a local course that offers unlimited play for a day for a flat fee, so this is useful). Incidentally, I tag when I first approach the ball with my club, not really as part of my pre-shot routine. In my case, GG adds no time to my round, which I know is a concern for some potential customers.[/size]

[size=3][b]Battery: [/b]Never had a problem with the battery dying, but I am surprised at how low it is after a single round. [/size]

[size=3][b]GPS Accuracy: [/b]I know others have mentioned problems, but it’s been accurate for me. I don’t pause or “wait for the GPS to catch up” or anything. I figure that GPS hardware these days has no trouble “keeping up” with me when I run or ride in my car, so I see no reason this family sizable device can’t keep up with my walking pace. As often noted, GPS technology (overall, not just GG) is insufficient for meaningful putting data.[/size]

[size=3][b]Transferring data: [/b]I occasionally (1 in 5 times, perhaps) have to unplug and re-connect the device when I get home and transfer, but I’ve never lost data or anything.[/size]

[size=3][b]Customer service: [/b]My one customer service experience was outstanding. On the Saturday of Thanksgiving weekend, I played a course with a funky layout and some of the holes were in the wrong order in GG. I opened a ticket late Saturday night, and got an email first thing Monday morning that the problem—and my round—was corrected. And I like that they have a public log of feature requests, with a voting system that allows users to request additions.[/size]

[size=3][b]Social Networking (and coaching):[/b] I don’t use much social media, and have no desire to post golf crap on Facebook wall, so I don’t use any of that kind of stuff. I was a little hesitant about privacy issues with GG, but it turns out that making rounds public has been a good thing—my teaching pro bookmarked my profile and seems to check in on it regularly. Sometimes after a round he’ll send me an email (“bring your 7-iron next time”, etc). I think there’s a ton of potential here for instructors gain insight into what’s really happening on the course.[/size]

[size=3][b]iPhone app: [/b]I don’t have and Android or iPhone, but I put the iPhone app on my iPad. It seems nice, but I don’t use it enough to have a strong opinion on it.[/size]

[size=3][b]Reviewing/signing a round:[/b] I find the process very straightforward. I use a Garmin GPS to get distances and keep score during the round, so I usually pull up my Garmin data side-by-side with the GG data and quickly run through the review process. I don’t find it to be long, and actually enjoy it. It makes me realize how little I used to reflect on rounds after they were finished. Now I find myself looking at my decisions and my poor shots, which is a good thing. I usually have one or two shots that I manually adjust in order to ensure that fairway accuracy and sand shots are registered correctly, but it’s not a big deal. Once I noticed that the data at the bottom of the screen changed to indicate the lie (i.e., “sand save” appears if you move the tag into a bunker, “scrambling” appears if you move it off the green, etc) it became that much quicker.[/size]

[size=3][b]Stats:[/b] So this is the important part to me. I love the stats GG has implemented so far. I especially love the Compare feature. I don’t care how I stack up against a pro, but I love comparing myself to different benchmarks. I want to get my average below 90, so I compare my stats to golfers who average 85-90 and see where I need the most work. I also like the Insights features that show dispersions (and associated data). However, I feel like there is so much more this product could do with the data. Much of what’s available is what I think of as “old school” golf data: fairway accuracy, average driving distance, average score, sand save %, etc. I would love to see more “advanced” metrics. Ideally, this might be Shots Gained, as has been discussed in this thread. I know that the putting data is problematic, but all other shots could be easily measured with this methodology—putting is a big thing to leave out, but the data would work without it. How many strokes do I lose off the tee compared to golfers 10 strokes better than me? Which is a bigger weakness, my approach shots or my short game? Did I perform better with my hybrids today than I did when last week?[/size]

[size=3]Short of that, there’s a ton of other stuff that could be gleaned, such as GIR+1 or NGIR, both of which are useful to a high handicapper like me who rarely hits a green in regulation. Look at the type of stats OOBGolf is able to track ([url="http://www.oobgolf.com/golfers/stats/available_stats.php"]http://www.oobgolf.c...lable_stats.php[/url]), and that’s without any GPS data. Certainly some of that is unnecessary, but the point is that with a GPS location (and club selection) for every shot in a round, we should be able to get so much more than “Hey look, I averaged 1.9 putts per hole today.” This isn’t so much a complaint as it is wistfulness—I can only imagine how insightful this data could be if we had access to it.[/size]

[size=3][b]Bottom line:[/b] I do love GG, and I do think it gives me valuable insights into my game. However, when friends ask about it I can't quite give it an unqualified recommendation. For data nerds like me, it's a no-brainer. At $120, as it was during the Amazon flash sale, it's a no-brainer. At $200 for casual golfers who aren't that into gadgetry and/or stats, it's more of a toss up. I don't think it's that far off though, and I expect the website to keep improving. [/size]

[size=3]Anyway, just my two cents.[/size]

[size=3]Tim[/size]
[/quote]

Thanks for the review, I have mine and was on the fence about it, I did not know if I wanted to mess with it, or it would be a pain, but after reading comments like yours, I am going to use it this year and see how and if it improves my game. I think I know my weaknesses, but it would be nice to have stats to confirm it, like does my score go down if i miss more fairways and how much does it go down, do I hit some of my irons the same as others (I think I hit my 4 and 5 about the same distance).

[dcmidnight]

The one thing that I have confidence in is that the GG folks really seem to be proactive in making changes to the site itself. My guess is that since the data itself is already stored in your account that they could roll out new statistics or features fairly easily. I'm looking forward to seeing if they announce anything at the PGA show though.

[TimAZ]

[quote name='dcmidnight' timestamp='1420984520' post='10726279']
The one thing that I have confidence in is that the GG folks really seem to be proactive in making changes to the site itself. My guess is that since the data itself is already stored in your account that they could roll out new statistics or features fairly easily. I'm looking forward to seeing if they announce anything at the PGA show though.
[/quote]

This is my hope and assumption as well. The data is all there, so I'm sure they'll come up with interesting and insightful stats. It seems reasonable to me that they went with the most common/recognizable stats at launch and will add things as the product matures. I also understand that they probably don't want to just dump a ton of stats out there and overwhelm people--they likely want to make deliberate decisions about what (and how) they display.

As a side note, I also concede that as a high handicapper, it's largely academic--every area of my game needs improvement, and I don't [b]really[/b] need GG to tell me that

[1Up2Down]

Just got the chance to use it . . .

Be nice!

[url="http://www.gamegolf.com/player/payryan"]http://www.gamegolf.com/player/payryan[/url]

[dingleb]

When I was a 20+ hcp, I was manually collecting stats like this but now, I can use different clubs for the same distance depending on how I want to flight the ball after figuring out wind, lie conditions and target. Reviewing the round later may not make sense without much more info. I stopped collecting stats because the only thing that really matters to me is whether I had fun and that wasn't a stat to measure or calculate. I might go low (relative to hcp index) because I got lucky for example. That's not the same as grinding one out. I don't know how this thing would show that. I will pass on this.

[brtnsbs]

[quote name='Dan Drake' timestamp='1420062997' post='10667311']
Has anyone tied this in with a "strokes gained" Mark Broadie approach? Any ideas about how that would be easiest to do?
[/quote]

I have an excel sheet that I use to track strokes gained. The GameGolf team is trying to incorporate strokes gained in some way but they won't release it until they do it right. They are acutely aware that the data has to be extremely precise, down to the yard and also has to be relevant to the pin (which GameGolf doesn't track) so my guess is their still pretty far away from a strokes gained section.

[techjunkee]

[quote name='brtnsbs' timestamp='1421603643' post='10770221']
[quote name='Dan Drake' timestamp='1420062997' post='10667311']
Has anyone tied this in with a "strokes gained" Mark Broadie approach? Any ideas about how that would be easiest to do?
[/quote]

I have an excel sheet that I use to track strokes gained. The GameGolf team is trying to incorporate strokes gained in some way but they won't release it until they do it right. They are acutely aware that the data has to be extremely precise, down to the yard and also has to be relevant to the pin (which GameGolf doesn't track) so my guess is their still pretty far away from a strokes gained section.
[/quote]

I always move the flags accordingly in post-round edit. Eventually GAMEGolf will have more interpretations for the data collected, and I'm always excited for their updates!

[Ima3putter]

Has anyone had any problems with the tagging device staying on your belt? I have had trouble with the device falling off my belt.

Thanks.

[sompin2do]

[quote name='Ima3putter' timestamp='1421613338' post='10771141']
Has anyone had any problems with the tagging device staying on your belt? I have had trouble with the device falling off my belt.

Thanks.
[/quote]

YES! Today. Third round using it. Got to the 15th tee,tagged my 3 wood and when I got to my drive - Gone! Holy crap and I'm pushing a cart with 2 friends. After a quick jog back to the tee and not finding it I finished the round without it. Also managed to lose the tag from my 6 iron today.

After the round I asked the next 2 groups if they had picked it up. Most don't seem to know what you're talking about.

Went to the pro shop and they let me take a cart back out to search. Actually found it laying just outside the tee markers.

Really thought this gadget was pretty cool but now I'm noticing even my tags tend to work their way out and had one fly off today that I didn't lose. My grips are PURE P2 wraps and I'm contemplating a drop of silicone to try and keep the tags on.

May have to keep the tagging device in my pocket. The thing is so light you can't tell it's on your belt and the clip really isn't all that strong.

Debating on just returning it.

[dcmidnight]

Thankfully I havent had an issue with either. Frankly I think the tags are so hard to screw in I cant imagine them just falling out.

And while I havent had an issue with the belt unit, I feel like if you did you'd know immediately at your next shot and it would be simply enough to track down.

[techjunkee]

The tags really are designed around fitting the New Decade Multi-Compound grips. Fit perfectly in mine.

However, the SUPERSTROKE mid slim 2.0 putter grip took a little bit of modifying for a flush proper fit.

[wetdogsmell]

I can't decide if I should get the Game Golf setup or just carry around a little notebook and jot down notes as I play. I'm probably around a 15 handicap. Not sure I am consistent enough to really use it for dialing in yardages. Plus my skill level also means i'm using my irons quite a bit for chipping or punching out of trouble.

The main thing I want to find out is what part of my game needs the most work. Right now it's all based on 'feel' so i'd like some data to back it up.

[ParHunter]

[quote name='wetdogsmell' timestamp='1421765972' post='10782809']
I can't decide if I should get the Game Golf setup or just carry around a little notebook and jot down notes as I play. I'm probably around a 15 handicap. Not sure I am consistent enough to really use it for dialing in yardages. Plus my skill level also means i'm using my irons quite a bit for chipping or punching out of trouble.

The main thing I want to find out is what part of my game needs the most work. Right now it's all based on 'feel' so i'd like some data to back it up.
[/quote]
The game golf platform gives you more then just the yardages. And I think they already filter out chips etc. But even if they don't you can see a 'grouping' of how long the shots go.
GameGolf also gives you stats on your teeshot (the distribution of them on a virtual fairway). So you can see more than just you miss 23% right or so. You can actually see the severity. You might lose more shots to the right but the real killers could be the ones you snap hook (for example).

It also gives you approach stats, showing you on a virtual green where your shots land (filtered by distance or club).
It now also compares your stats to other players in the same or different scoring group.

I don't know, is there a demo account for Game Golf where new users can see the detailed stats? These are stats which are only visible to the actual user.

[sompin2do]

[quote name='techjunkee' timestamp='1421726721' post='10781205']
[b]The tags really are designed around fitting the New Decade Multi-Compound grips.[/b] Fit perfectly in mine.

However, the SUPERSTROKE mid slim 2.0 putter grip took a little bit of modifying for a flush proper fit.
[/quote]

Where did you hear this? I just spoke with Jason in support and he said they weren't designed around any particular grip but so far most of the problems were from those with PURE grips. He also sent me a link to an article on using a small drop of glue to prevent. That would be pretty permanent with the glues they recommend and could damage the tag when it's time to change grips so I'm going to try something else for now. So far I'm impressed with their customer service. He's also going to send me another 6i tag.

[dcmidnight]

Hey what about cutting a real small strip of plumbers tape and wrapping it around the threads before screwing it in?

Would definitely be tighter but also wouldnt be permanent.

[brtnsbs]

[quote name='wetdogsmell' timestamp='1421765972' post='10782809']
I can't decide if I should get the Game Golf setup or just carry around a little notebook and jot down notes as I play. I'm probably around a 15 handicap. Not sure I am consistent enough to really use it for dialing in yardages. Plus my skill level also means i'm using my irons quite a bit for chipping or punching out of trouble.

The main thing I want to find out is what part of my game needs the most work. Right now it's all based on 'feel' so i'd like some data to back it up.
[/quote]

If anything you're a prime candidate for getting a GameGolf, you'll see exactly how you compare in multiple areas of your game to your peer group. They added a comparison feature a few months ago and it compares you to the average golfer in any scoring range (i.e. scratch golfer, 75-80 golfers, 80-85 golfer, all the way to 120 average score. Its exactly what you're looking for. Here is my game, my average score is 83.4 over 50 rounds vs. golfers that average 80-85.

[attachment=2580085:game-golf-compare-page-scramble-to-scratch.png]

Here is my game against a scratch golfer.

[attachment=2580093:game-golf-comparision-page-scratch-golfer.jpg]

As for chipping/punching they aren't included in your median distance calculation for your club performance. If you can't tell I highly recommend you get one! I've written a bunch of reviews of GameGolf on my blog too if you want to see how far its comes since it came out in February.

[sompin2do]

[quote name='dcmidnight' timestamp='1421791851' post='10785871']
Hey what about cutting a real small strip of plumbers tape and wrapping it around the threads before screwing it in?

Would definitely be tighter but also wouldnt be permanent.
[/quote]

Did that yesterday with about 4 wraps and they still worked their way loose. Plumbers tape is super thin so I might have to add many wraps.

I have found that thin iron shots are the most likely times this happens. Jason in support also told me "wrap type" grips seem to be the most reported.

Today I'm going to try glue dots on a couple of them. The tags still sit flush but the dots aren't like super glue. Not giving up....

[brtnsbs]

[quote name='sompin2do' timestamp='1421850600' post='10789821']

Did that yesterday with about 4 wraps and they still worked their way loose. Plumbers tape is super thin so I might have to add many wraps.

I have found that thin iron shots are the most likely times this happens. Jason in support also told me "wrap type" grips seem to be the most reported.

Today I'm going to try glue dots on a couple of them. The tags still sit flush but the dots aren't like super glue. Not giving up....
[/quote]

I'm amazed you're having a problem with them falling out. I have GolfPride MultiCompounds and those puppies were tough to screw in and nowhere close to falling out. How big is the air hole at the top of your grips? It must be larger than the standard air hole.