Anybody actually measure the Optifit Hosel affects?

http://gameimprovementgolf.com/the-truth-about-adjustable-hosel-drivers/

http://wishongolf.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/adjustable-hosel-drivers.pdf

Above are Tom Wishon's actual measurements from recent adjustment hosel devices. Note the Callaway is not on there, although I honestly do not know when it came to market. One thing I found interesting is how open many of the true face angles are, especially with Titleist. This is probably why I love the 816 hybrid, because it's one of the few hybrids I don't turn over a ton.

I am very interested to know what the true measurements of the Optfit neck are. I am looking into maybe picking up the new SZ but I see on Cally's website it sits at 56.5* lie which is pretty darn low, thus I assume it what causes the fade bias many of us amateurs are seeing. Is the hosel able to change face angle and lie? One or just the other? If you look at Taylormade's website they specifically state the neck adjustments only change lie, not loft (which we of course know is true, no changing lofts unless you hover the club a certain way).

I know the Optifit has an N and D setting, but by how much lie/face angle change does this bring on?

Tom Wishon if you read this, can you please comment?

Sorry, don't have any specific measurements - and doubt Tom has them either for the Callaway heads since he had to make a special effort to borrow those heads he did measure when he wrote that article.

The 'base' specs will depend on the specific head. The adapter only provides adjustment around the base specs. It doesn't dictate what those base specs might be.

I can say that according to the way Tom (and most people for that matter) measure the head specs, for the Callaway adapter the loft setting changes typically will modify the face angle (not loft) and the N/D settings will change the lie angle with the D being more upright. For Callaway (and Titleist) these are mostly independent adjustments.

Not sure what statement you are referencing from TM's web site but for TM (and most of the other OEM hossel adjustments), the hossel adjustment changes both lie angel and face angle (not just lie angle). That's just the hossel adjustment, the sole plate for the older heads is a different topic.

For the amount of face angle adjustment, take what the OEM generally refer to as a loft adjustment, multiply * 1.8* and you'll get the amount the face angle changes. Again, from what and to what specific face angle can be dependent on the specific head model.

Thanks Stuart.

For the Tm reference, if you go to the '16 M2 spec page, you'll see that the only variable option is lie angle. With Cally for example it will say, "9* standard (8-11*) lie 56.5*" whereas TM's says "9* lie 56-60*". To me this seems to indicate despite the hosel saying up or down in loft, they are only providing you changed in lie angle. I suppose face angle would change, too but they (nor any OEM) seems to acknowledge that.

Sounds like if I gamed the SZ based on what folks are saying and my swing, I'd prob buy the 9* and put it up to 10 or 11, in D setting. I'll fade the crap out of a very open faced driver.

That just a difference in how the two OEM's decided to list their specs. Don't read anything more into it. For the adjustable features they have the option to list the base value (in the neutral hossel position) or the range or both. TM only lists the base head loft, Cally lists the base as well as the range. TM lists the lie range while cally lists the lie angle for the neutral setting. You have to dig a bit deeper to get all the details.

e.g. If you go into the 'description' section of the TM page it specifically says:

Adjustable Loft Sleeve

• 12 positions, 4° (+/- 2° degrees of loft) to dial in maximum performance by adjusting loft, lie and face angle.
  

Of course, that's their concept of loft (more commonly referred to as "effective loft") and not the same as Tom's - which is the true static loft of the head.

I also prefer a closed face angle so do the same thing. Start with a 9* head and adjust the loft up 1-2*. Not hit the Cally drivers lately but I have noticed in the past that Callaway's tend to be not as open as TM drivers in the neutral position. So that might also make the Callaway a good choice for you.

Yeah I don't even read vendor marketing or whatever. They are just selling us products, not the real deal info like Tom.

Surprisingly though I hit M2 pretty well. Mostly straight drives or small fades or draw, nothing excessive either way. Somebody said because of the MyFly on Cobra, the loft does change?? I have a 10.5 head down to 9* and I can't slice it. Literally I try to rip big fades or cuts and I end up getting weak lazy balloon fades. Once in a while I get a straight blocked push, but that's my hands and releasing really, not the face angle. 95% of my shots with my current driver are draws. Is the stock static face angle of Fly Z severely closed and I just made it less closed?

At the current lie angles for drivers, the change in MEASURED FA is approximately .6* for each degree of loft change. ACTUAL FA change depends on the design of the sole of the club. Lower loft opens FA and higher loft closes FA. As Tom and many others (myself included) have described, the adjustable hosel change affect depends on how you take your grip on the club. The FA change will only come into play if you allow the clubhead to come to rest naturally before taking your grip, then realign your body to aim the shot. If you want the loft change to come into play, you have to take your grip while aligning the clubface to square up with your intended path.

The OptiFit adapter is, like many other adapters on the market, a 3* total loft change adapter. The "Loft" cog changes the loft by 1* per tooth, so the MEASURED FA change would be as stated above. The second cog makes the lie angle more upright (Draw) or Normal.

BT

the change in MEASURED FA is approximately .6* for each degree of loft change.

Actually you got that backwards, it's 1* FA for each 0.6* of effective loft change. Or 1.8* FA per 1* of effective loft.

Loft & Face Angle correlation at various lie angles (source) from Tom's newsletter. Most OEMs label their adjustable sleeve with the corresponding LOFT change @ square FA vs the actual FA change in soled/neutral/green machine position.

Right, so for ME personally, I generally sole my driver at set up, and mainly set up open or closed to path. IE, as a lefty, if I want to hit a draw, I set up slightly left of target line, but my club face is slightly closed to path. I don't have a square face to path because that often leads to a push. The opposite is true for if I want a fade.

Sounds like to me, I wouldn't ever get an effective loft change, only face angle changes, and then 1 upright lie change from the Callaway. Potentially more lie angles with the Taylormade.

Right, so for ME personally, I generally sole my driver at set up, and mainly set up open or closed to path. IE, as a lefty, if I want to hit a draw, I set up slightly left of target line, but my club face is slightly closed to path. I don't have a square face to path because that often leads to a push. The opposite is true for if I want a fade.

 

Sounds like to me, I wouldn't ever get an effective loft change, only face angle changes, and then 1 upright lie change from the Callaway. Potentially more lie angles with the Taylormade.

If you manipulate the face orientation to be consistent at address regardless of the setting (and therefore also get a consistent face orientation at impact), you likely will get some changes in dynamic loft from the adjustment changes to the effective loft.

Simple test to find out. Change the 'loft' setting and see what happens to the launch angle.

Generally speaking, changing lofts has some change in ball flight for me, but not massive differences in peak height or spin. I see the most change in the draw/fade bias usually.

the change in MEASURED FA is approximately .6* for each degree of loft change.

Actually you got that backwards, it's 1* FA for each 0.6* of effective loft change. Or 1.8* FA per 1* of effective loft.

Sorry, had a couple beers and everything goes to crap! Thanks for straightening things out.

BT

No worries BT.

Stu/WRX,

Do you know the measured FA of the new SZ in the S/N config? I know Lie Angle is 56.5*, but if I did go get fit, I know for sure I need a neutral or even potentially slightly closed FA to produce my best flight.

Same for M2 (which is the more likely candidate for purchase). Stock FA would help a bunch, as I know standard setting of Lie is 58.5*.

Sorry, can't help you with those specifics. Hopefully someone else can.

That just a difference in how the two OEM's decided to list their specs. Don't read anything more into it. For the adjustable features they have the option to list the base value (in the neutral hossel position) or the range or both. TM only lists the base head loft, Cally lists the base as well as the range. TM lists the lie range while cally lists the lie angle for the neutral setting. You have to dig a bit deeper to get all the details.

 

e.g. If you go into the 'description' section of the TM page it specifically says:

 

Adjustable Loft Sleeve

• 12 positions, 4° (+/- 2° degrees of loft) to dial in maximum performance by adjusting loft, lie and face angle.
  

 

Of course, that's their concept of loft (more commonly referred to as "effective loft") and not the same as Tom's - which is the true static loft of the head.

 

I also prefer a closed face angle so do the same thing. Start with a 9* head and adjust the loft up 1-2*. Not hit the Cally drivers lately but I have noticed in the past that Callaway's tend to be not as open as TM drivers in the neutral position. So that might also make the Callaway a good choice for you.

14 pages of comments about what Wishon said, and you are one of the few that understand it. Some will never get it.

anyone know how many degrees upright the D setting on the callaway adapters is?