Educate a guy about Colokrom Irons

OK guys,

Please educate me.

At my local second hand store, there was an ancient iron in their barrel in the back (already away for the season).. At least it was ancient-ish, a MacGregor/Tommy Armour 11 iron, with the Colokrom stamp on the back. Looks like it's a Tourney 845. Rusty, chrome puckering, it's love at first sight (again).

Of course, slightly fascinated, I grab the sucker, and put it in my gamer bag in the hole I've been saving for the right wedge.

What seems odd is the face has the texture of being rusty, even though this is supposed to be a copper insert? When I scrub it, it still has a rusty texture to it. And I really have no interest in cleaning it up further, as it can get a 2-piece ball to back up 4" from 100 yds - a perfect vintage club distance that was missing from my bag. Heck, I even used it to pitch in for my only eagle this year.

So can someone explain what the whole Colokrum thing is, what it was supposed to do, and if I should look at adding a MacGregor vintage bag to the rapidly shrinking floor space I have in my garage? I mean this 11 iron flat out works from 100-60, and I wondered if the other irons are equally this good.

Edit: Wanted to show the same model on eBay - looks like the heads are copper (BeCu?) then were chrome plated. Is this correct? Good to know before working on the club....

http://www.ebay.com/...=item43c0b65d22

[quote name='ScooterMcTavish' timestamp='1382387990' post='8035977']
OK guys,

Please educate me.

At my local second hand store, there was an ancient iron in their barrel in the back (already away for the season).. At least it was ancient-ish, a MacGregor/Tommy Armour 11 iron, with the Colokrom stamp on the back. Looks like it's a Tourney 845. Rusty, chrome puckering, it's love at first sight (again).

Of course, slightly fascinated, I grab the sucker, and put it in my gamer bag in the hole I've been saving for the right wedge.

What seems odd is the face has the texture of being rusty, even though this is supposed to be a copper insert? When I scrub it, it still has a rusty texture to it. And I really have no interest in cleaning it up further, as it can get a 2-piece ball to back up 4" from 100 yds - a perfect vintage club distance that was missing from my bag. Heck, I even used it to pitch in for my only eagle this year.

So can someone explain what the whole Colokrum thing is, what it was supposed to do, and if I should look at adding a MacGregor vintage bag to the rapidly shrinking floor space I have in my garage? I mean this 11 iron flat out works from 100-60, and I wondered if the other irons are equally this good.

Edit: Wanted to show the same model on eBay - looks like the heads are copper (BeCu?) then were chrome plated. Is this correct? Good to know before working on the club....

[url="http://www.ebay.com/itm/Tommy-Armour-TOURNEY-COLOKROM-Irons-3-4-9-Golf-Clubs-REC-945-Steel-Shafts-R-Flex-/290995985698?pt=Golf_Clubs&hash=item43c0b65d22"]http://www.ebay.com/...=item43c0b65d22[/url]
[/quote]


The heads were first copper plated. Then,they were masked and chromed. When the masking was removed, the face was copper. They were soft and abrasive. With balata, you can do tricks. These are md 50's vintage.

CHARLEY PENNA

Thanks Charley,

So they are forged steel which was copper plated, then chrome plated? Sounds like I won't be wanting to go too aggressively after the faces on these then.

Were these were one of your dad's designs? I can't help but be impressed with the way the weight is positioned on them (I love low weight on an MB), and their elegant understatement. I'm almost thinking I may eventually need a set. I'm guessing the copper plating gives them a very soft feel compared to other blades of the era.

SMac,
I've got a set of these and they play as well as anything today. Gotta be cognizant of the sole and leading edge when playing them in soft conditions, but I find the weight distribution to be very much to my liking and the ball really jumps off the face crisply.

[quote name='ScooterMcTavish' timestamp='1382389456' post='8036151']
Thanks Charley,

So they are forged steel which was copper plated, then chrome plated? Sounds like I won't be wanting to go too aggressively after the faces on these then.

Were these were one of your dad's designs? I can't help but be impressed with the way the weight is positioned on them (I love low weight on an MB), and their elegant understatement. I'm almost thinking I may eventually need a set. I'm guessing the copper plating gives them a very soft feel compared to other blades of the era.
[/quote]

My uncle, Toney Penna was responsible for all designs while he was at MacGregor. At that time, all irons were forged. Golf clubs were not cast until the late 1960's. I have the patent document for the first castings. Toney got the idea for casting from his son, Tommy. Tom went to Georgia Tech. After graduating, he was associated with Von Braun in the space program. When Toney left MacGregor, he wanted to make irons, but he could not get many of the skilled guys to move from Cincinnati to Jupiter, Florida. Tommy suggested they make irons like the Egyptians made jewelry. The casting patents were voided if you merely changed a line, so everyone followed. Solheim made putters by casting, but not irons until a few years later. The molds for each club were costly, but economy of scale dropped the cost. There was less finishing necessary. I have irons made over half a century ago from 431 stainless ( never chromed) that glisten today .there are a couple sets I put up for sale on thegolfauction website last week

CHARLEY PENNA

Sorry Charley,

Apparently I need to read your other posts closer; assumed you were Toney's son, not his nephew. I do agree with the other thread that between the stories you have from your dad and uncle that you could write the bestselling golf book of all time.

Beautiful clubs being sold on the auction as well - I spent way too much time on there this weekend. I wish I had the budget to be a collector as well as a player.

Thanks for yet another fascinating story about the golden age of golf.

these look like the irons johnny miller used when he won the 1973 us open at oakmont..

[quote name='jmvargas' timestamp='1382392765' post='8036405']
these look like the irons johnny miller used when he won the 1973 us open at oakmont..
[/quote]


I'm pretty sure, but not positive, that Miller used a MacGregor set of blades which were referred to by MacGregor as. "The 985".. Tom Watson used them also. I think Weiskopf favored this model iron head. Later, the grooves were deemed non conforming, but they never took away anyone's trophy who used those irons

CHARLEY PENNA

While visiting a sister, I found a set at a yard sale that looked unhit. That confused me until I discovered they re-released these in something like 1986. I play them when I visit her, which is often. They are right up there with any Mac irons I've ever played. I still prefer the FC4000s, but that ceramic face is just a bit more novel than the copper.

There is a prior post on this here titled
[b] [size=3]How do I identify whether my Macgregor Colokrom's are the 1980's remake model?[/size][/b]

according to this article, the Miller macgregor irons were 915 and custom [url="http://www.golf.com/equipment/johnny-miller-1973-us-open-golf-equipment-macgregor-wilson"]http://www.golf.com/equipment/johnny-miller-1973-us-open-golf-equipment-macgregor-wilson[/url]

[quote name='teevons' timestamp='1382397357' post='8036873']
according to this article, the Miller macgregor irons were 915 and custom [url="http://www.golf.com/equipment/johnny-miller-1973-us-open-golf-equipment-macgregor-wilson"]http://www.golf.com/equipment/johnny-miller-1973-us-open-golf-equipment-macgregor-wilson[/url]
[/quote]

The 8 through pw were stamped tourney custom . They were 985 heads see enclosed pix. The 2 to 7 were old Armour heads from the 40s or 50s. They were too thin and light for short irons

CHARLEY PENNA

Charley-

Thanks for all your information on the origination of MacGregor Tourney Colokrom irons.

Have already posted photos of one of those rare MacGregor Sand Irons...

The 1955 LH MacGregor "MT" Tourney Colokrom Sand Iron, with the "TP" stamped initials..

It performs exactly as claimed with balata balls (and not too badly with modern ones!)


[i]Two Books.... Easy...[/i]

[quote name='rex235' timestamp='1382411890' post='8038275']
Charley-

Thanks for all your information on the origination of MacGregor Tourney Colokrom irons.

Have already posted photos of one of those rare MacGregor Sand Irons...

The 1955 LH MacGregor "MT" Tourney Colokrom Sand Iron, with the "TP" stamped initials..

It performs exactly as claimed with balata balls (and not too badly with modern ones!)

The set Miller used was as low tech as you can get in my opinion! Of all the great rounds, I think his 63 at Oakmont is the finest because :

1 the golf course I'm not sure, but they still may have furrowed the bunkers as in past opens
2 his equipment
3 the last of 4 rounds
4. His proximity to the hole meant he had to DRIVE as near to perfect as possible. He had to hit tee shots not only into the fairway, but also to the correct SIDE
OF THE FAIRWAY ,IN ORDER TO HAVE A CHANCE TO HIT HIS SHOT TO THE 15 FOOT CIRCLE THE USGA GAVE HIM TO BE ABLE TO KEEP THE BALL IN BIRDIE RANGE
5 it was not merely a wonderful putting round. Putting was made as simple as possible by magnificent drives and we'll executed second shots

CHARLEY PENNA

[i]Two Books.... Easy...[/i]
[/quote]

Charley-

+1

Supposedly Johnny Millers' 63 at the '73 US Open at Oakmont led to the high scores at the US Open at Winged Foot in '74. Winner..... Hale Irwin......+7?

Anyone know where one might find a LH MacGregor TC 985 set like the ones you (and Miller) feature?

[i]Have got a few RH items to negotiate with......[/i] :>D

This set , including the one iron, is on thegolfauction website under the Toney and Charley Penna collection

CHARLEY PENNA

Well, found another Colokrom copper faced iron this weekend at a thrift - a MacGregor Tourney Colokrom, REC.M65 (Wingback with the winged MT logo). A couple of interesting notes about it:

- Looks like a lady used it as it still has her shaft label on it - apparently she belonged to the most Tony local CC.
- The club seems a bit short, but there is nothing to designate it a ladies, except maybe the shaft band (True Temper Rocket L-flex)
- I surprised at how thick the topline is - was this common with this model?

Regardless, it was a great find, as this may have dissuaded me from looking for this particular model of iron - I had always liked the look of this set, but that topline is just too thick for me.

Scott,
An observation about the top line and some clearly speculation on my part. I am of the opinion that perhaps during that time frame the more meatier clubheads were in vogue. I am thinking of some of the other clubs I have seen from that time period and as I recall most all looked stout. I would hope someone more learnered than I chime in. Personally, I found that clubhead to produce a very crisp strike. Kicking myself for getting rid of mine, but greed being part of my nature I turned a tidy profit.

[quote name='ScooterMcTavish' timestamp='1402944779' post='9507929']
Well, found another Colokrom copper faced iron this weekend at a thrift - a MacGregor Tourney Colokrom, REC.M65 (Wingback with the winged MT logo). A couple of interesting notes about it:

- Looks like a lady used it as it still has her shaft label on it - apparently she belonged to the most Tony local CC.
- The club seems a bit short, but there is nothing to designate it a ladies, except maybe the shaft band (True Temper Rocket L-flex)
- I surprised at how thick the topline is - was this common with this model?

Regardless, it was a great find, as this may have dissuaded me from looking for this particular model of iron - I had always liked the look of this set, but that topline is just too thick for me.
[/quote]
Scott,
the M-65 was a club made for seniors and better women players. Softer shaft and, I think, a half inch shorter than the M-75 and M-85.

[quote name='Ironmaster Oddities' timestamp='1402952182' post='9508835']
[quote name='ScooterMcTavish' timestamp='1402944779' post='9507929']
Well, found another Colokrom copper faced iron this weekend at a thrift - a MacGregor Tourney Colokrom, REC.M65 (Wingback with the winged MT logo). A couple of interesting notes about it:

- Looks like a lady used it as it still has her shaft label on it - apparently she belonged to the most Tony local CC.
- The club seems a bit short, but there is nothing to designate it a ladies, except maybe the shaft band (True Temper Rocket L-flex)
- I surprised at how thick the topline is - was this common with this model?

Regardless, it was a great find, as this may have dissuaded me from looking for this particular model of iron - I had always liked the look of this set, but that topline is just too thick for me.
[/quote]
Scott,
the M-65 was a club made for seniors and better women players. Softer shaft and, I think, a half inch shorter than the M-75 and M-85.
[/quote]

I concur and believe the M55 was strictly a ladies shafted club also. I found one and I'm thinking about a reshaft and refinish for it to fit my needs.

M85 Tour Stiff shaft; M75 Firm shaft; M65 Regular shaft; M55 lady or senior shaft.

Just bought a set of the Colokroms from the 50s here in Sweden. I got a wedge with this set but it has the stamping MN instead of REC.M85 and under the club it says MACGREGOR D.S..

Does anyone know why the wedge got another stamping and is it a sandwedge?

The D.S. stands for Double Service or Dual Service. The "MN" could be the initials of the original owner. The name implies usage either off grass or out of the sand.

Okey thx for the info. Any other difference then the shaft between M85, M75, M65, M55?

I read earlier in this thread that M85 was shafted with tour stiff but mine got regular shafts.

Charley/Teevons-

The picture differs slightly from the actual clubs used..note the description.

Fortunately, there was a publication titled Peterson's Golf in the 1970's which published a photo of Johnny Miller's actual clubs he used during the 1973 US Open at Oakmont-

Peterson's showed MacGregor Driver, 3, & 4 woods (note there are five screws in the sweepback soleplate models)-Millers long irons from MacGregor were from the 1940s, and also had lead tape, the MacGregor 985 TC short irons, Wilson Staff Dynapower Sand Wedge, and Acushnet Bullseye Standard Model putter.

It was in September, 1973, at the Philadelphia Airport, where I met and asked a young amateur golfer from Texas (who was travelling to play Harbour Town in SC, but his golf bag had rerouted to somewhere else-) to sign this same Peterson's Golf Magazine.

It read.....'" To ---------, Best of Luck Always, [b] Ben Crenshaw[/b]...."

Gil Capps new book"THE MAGNIFICENT MASTERS" quotes Miller about these clubs. He devotes two pages to describe them. He took the 915 t heads his dad found to Ortiz to cut the hozels and grind the heads . Miller refinished the woods with 2 parts linseed oil and one part orange shella, re gripped and applied new whipping . His 4 wood was a prewar Tommy Armour with an ivory insert. His 3 wood was a 1948 Tommy Armour with a shallow face. His driver was a Tommy Armour velocitized (1955) with a 10 1/2 loft. He put a 36 inch shaft onto a 1952 Bullseye

CHARLEY PENNA

Charley,

What??!?!! Can I *believe* my eyes, Miller's 4W had an insert made of **[i]elephant [/i]ivory**???!?!?

Could have been pre-war Rhinocerous ivory, they were pretty thick skinned about such things in those days!

[quote name='stixman' timestamp='1414424587' post='10357235']
Could have been pre-war Rhinocerous ivory, they were pretty thick skinned about such things in those days!
[/quote]no indeed. Though wasn't rhino horn also in high demand as a "gentleman's restorative"?

[quote name='xgolfx' timestamp='1414417208' post='10356725']
Gil Capps new book"THE MAGNIFICENT MASTERS" quotes Miller about these clubs. He devotes two pages to describe them. He took the 915 t heads his dad found to Ortiz to cut the hozels and grind the heads . Miller refinished the woods with 2 parts linseed oil and one part orange shella, re gripped and applied new whipping . His 4 wood was a prewar Tommy Armour with an ivory insert. His 3 wood was a 1948 Tommy Armour with a shallow face. His driver was a Tommy Armour velocitized (1955) with a 10 1/2 loft. He put a 36 inch shaft onto a 1952 Bullseye

CHARLEY PENNAA
[/quote]

Charley, thank you for your post. It is the most detailed one describing JM's clubs that I've seen so far.

Since this is the Colokrom thread, here's the one's I picked up a couple of weeks ago for > $6.00. Believe them to be '57's based on the colokrom stamping design. M75 model with Tourney <V> shaft. Really in quite good shape. Ferrules and original leather grips are in excellent shape. Missing end caps on five of the eight. The 4i is the worst of the set with quite a bit of pitting on the face, the rest are VGC. Have a Mac Tourney D.S. M85 11 iron that while not a colokrom, matches the set well. Haven't hit them yet, probably won't before the end of the season.

What flex does the "V" shaft equate? Thinking maybe senior or slower swing speed player. Fine by me if so.

A couple of pics, all gussied up and ready for their closeup. Almost to pretty to play.

[attachment=2475573:image.jpg][attachment=2475575:image.jpg]

Damn pics keep wanting to rotate on iOS mobile posting.