Educate a guy about Colokrom Irons

[super20dan]

way cool colokns

[Ironmaster Oddities]

V shaft is regular. I think the 915 stainless Armours them. I'll look it up later and amend this post, if needed

[mocokid]

[quote name='teevons' timestamp='1382397357' post='8036873']
according to this article, the Miller macgregor irons were 915 and custom [url="http://www.golf.com/equipment/johnny-miller-1973-us-open-golf-equipment-macgregor-wilson"]http://www.golf.com/...acgregor-wilson[/url]
[/quote]

Yes, JM used the old Armours, the 915's, and the Tourney Custom- the 985's. The TC 985 was basically a 1970's version of the Tommy Armour 985 (similar to the 1960's version- on ebay from time to time), after MacG lost the TA name.

[xgolfx]

[quote name='Ironmaster Oddities' timestamp='1414469197' post='10360689']
V shaft is regular. I think the 915 stainless Armours them. I'll look it up later and amend this post, if needed
[/quote]

I can't recall a V designation in a pro line club

CHARLEY PENNA

[Fellaheen51]

Shafts band says MacGregor True Temper Tourney with the V in a diamond. Pics of shaft label and club:

[attachment=2476287:image.jpg]
[attachment=2476289:image.jpg]
[attachment=2476291:image.jpg]

[stevemcgee99]

You obviously didn't get those irons from eBay for $6. Do you live near a golf-rich thrift store?

[Ironmaster Oddities]

[quote name='Fellaheen51' timestamp='1414515283' post='10362639']
Shafts band says MacGregor True Temper Tourney with the V in a diamond. Pics of shaft label and club:

[attachment=2476287:image.jpg]
[attachment=2476289:image.jpg]
[attachment=2476291:image.jpg]
[/quote]
V shaft was the medium shaft for Tourney irons at that time. m85 and Armour 945 irons had a stiffer shaft . M75 and the scarce Armour 925 both had the V shaft, I think.

[Fellaheen51]

[quote name='stevemcgee99' timestamp='1414633965' post='10371501']
You obviously didn't get those irons from eBay for $6. Do you live near a golf-rich thrift store?
[/quote]

From a online consignment auction house. Surfing through the listings I saw this bag and was a able to ID the irons from the pics. Also had a set of Wilson Staff 4250 lammys (D, 3, 5), a nondescript metal D and a funky old bag. Only bidder at $5. Tax + buyer's premium = $5.83 out the door. Coke soaked the heads and 0000 steel wool to the shafts to clean them up. Here's a link to the listing that I was working with if interested. Just never know where old clubs might show up.

http://www.mi-auction.com/cgi-bin/mnlist.cgi?repomax4/803611

[quote name='Ironmaster Oddities' timestamp='1414637926' post='10371837']
V shaft was the medium shaft for Tourney irons at that time. m85 and Armour 945 irons had a stiffer shaft . M75 and the scarce Armour 925 both had the V shaft, I think.
[/quote]

Thx IO. Further study in Kaplan seems to indicate that Mac 75 series clubs had regular shafts. I think. The Mac line of 50's and 60's sure was confusing. Glad I obtained the Kaplan guide as a tool in an attempt to sort it out. Also serves as my "wish list" book for late night bedside reading.

[oldschoolrocker]

I can say for certain that my partial set of 925's have the v shaft.

[rex235]

[quote name='xgolfx' timestamp='1414417208' post='10356725']
Gil Capps new book"THE MAGNIFICENT MASTERS" quotes Miller about these clubs. He devotes two pages to describe them. He took the 915 t heads his dad found to Ortiz to cut the hozels and grind the heads . Miller refinished the woods with 2 parts linseed oil and one part orange shella, re gripped and applied new whipping . His 4 wood was a prewar Tommy Armour with an ivory insert. His 3 wood was a 1948 Tommy Armour with a shallow face. His driver was a Tommy Armour velocitized (1955) with a 10 1/2 loft. He put a 36 inch shaft onto a 1952 Bullseye

CHARLEY PENNA
[/quote]

Charley-

+1

Has Miller ever shared who/where he got that 1952 Bullseye from?

[i]Still....."Two books easy"[/i]

[gartmox]

I bought a set of Colokroms M85 that have an R on the shaft label. Guess that means regular shafts but they seems A LOT stiffer then modern regular shafts.
Bought what i think is the "matching" woods for the era aswell. The flex on the woods says C, anyone knows what that means?

Am i right thinking mid 50s era?

ill post some pics of the clubs below:

[gartmox]

pics

[Kathy Marie]

What beautiful photos, thank you Gartmox!

[xgolfx]

[quote name='rex235' timestamp='1414715331' post='10376267']
[quote name='xgolfx' timestamp='1414417208' post='10356725']
Gil Capps new book"THE MAGNIFICENT MASTERS" quotes Miller about these clubs. He devotes two pages to describe them. He took the 915 t heads his dad found to Ortiz to cut the hozels and grind the heads . Miller refinished the woods with 2 parts linseed oil and one part orange shella, re gripped and applied new whipping . His 4 wood was a prewar Tommy Armour with an ivory insert. His 3 wood was a 1948 Tommy Armour with a shallow face. His driver was a Tommy Armour velocitized (1955) with a 10 1/2 loft. He put a 36 inch shaft onto a 1952 Bullseye

CHARLEY PENNA
[/quote]

Charley-

+1

Has Miller ever shared who/where he got that 1952 Bullseye from?

[i]Still....."Two books easy"[/i]





The book states it was a 1952 John Reuter. No info on where Miller obtained it

CHARLEY PENNA
[/quote]

[astamm8]

[quote name='gartmox' timestamp='1414770295' post='10378595']
I bought a set of Colokroms M85 that have an R on the shaft label. Guess that means regular shafts but they seems A LOT stiffer then modern regular shafts.
Bought what i think is the "matching" woods for the era aswell. The flex on the woods says C, anyone knows what that means?

Am i right thinking mid 50s era?

ill post some pics of the clubs below:
[/quote]

Both the R and the C were the stiffest standard shafts available (although Mac called them "medium stiff") and would have been standard on the M85, PT1, SS1, 945, etc. big boy top of the line pro line clubs. There may have been a stiffer custom wood shaft available, but I'm not sure. The R was for Rocket, I think. Anyway, the R, while oft mistaken as such, does not indicate regular.

Wood shafts would roughly be C = X, E = S, G = R, K = ladies' stiff (or senior), and J = ladies.

Iron shafts were roughly R = X, V = S, Z = R, Y = ladies' stiff (or senior), and Z = ladies' regular.

This was mid to late 50s. The shafts and the names changed over time, there were some others in the catalog, and still others available by custom order, particularly older model shafts.

[Titleist87]

Just picked up a sand iron Colokrom M75 for $5 which I believe to be from the remake set of the 1980s. I'm led to believe this because the copper extend to the topline, the shaft is a modern True Temper Dynamic silver label. It does have the three rings on the hosel and what I think is the correct ferrule. It just seems to look modern and not vintage. Even has the shaft label of a previous owner, Jack Faith, of Almaden CC in San Jose.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[BIG STU]

Just picked up a sand iron Colokrom M75 for $5 which I believe to be from the remake set of the 1980s. I'm led to believe this because the copper extend to the topline, the shaft is a modern True Temper Dynamic silver label. It does have the three rings on the hosel and what I think is the correct ferrule. It just seems to look modern and not vintage. Even has the shaft label of a previous owner, Jack Faith, of Almaden CC in San Jose.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Nope it is not a remake because the 80s reissues did not have a shaft pin and the muscle back in the reissues was not as pronounced. Also all the remake Colokrom irons I owned were M-85s and did not have numbers or the yellow on the ferules. That serial number is a dead give away and one of the guys on here should be able to decipher it for you

[rex235]

Drstroud-

This iron was from the 1950s, but very carefully buffed, polished, and reshafted with the original ferrule.

The 1980s MacGregor remakes of these Colokrom irons include the "MT" winged logo, but did not include the "Tourney" stamping, and the M75 was smaller and not as thick as this. Also, the '50s originals were in red, where the '80s remakes were in black.

Also, the hosel shows remnants of the original pin, which was to the original iron shaft.

Not bad for $5.

[Coralray]

That is a great sand iron. I have been playing a M85 version for a month and really like its super soft feel. The copper when in condition like yours and mine does give great traction on aggressive approaches where you can make the ball dance a bit from fairway lies. I have ground the sole to be more modern by taking the back of the flange rounder. Excellent from the sand, these clubs look just like a D.S. but without the notch from the sole. Sadly only 54 degrees of loft; it'd be a shame to bend one, they sit beautifully, even with a little too much bounce. Heavy too, too heavy for full swing shots, but great from green side trouble.

[KYMAR]

Nice pickup D! Thats very cool looking!

[rex235]

Coral-

Yes, and sadly, these "Winged MT" Sand Irons were RH Only.

MacGregor made LH MT Tourney Colokrom Sand Irons (some were Special Order), but have yet to see any LH Sand M series wedges with the "MT" Wings milled like this. In fact, there are no LH wedges with the "MT" milled wings.

In LH MacGregor models, the MT Wings ended at the 9 iron.

[Titleist87]

[quote name='Coralray' timestamp='1439692617' post='12145778']
That is a great sand iron. I have been playing a M85 version for a month and really like its super soft feel. The copper when in condition like yours and mine does give great traction on aggressive approaches where you can make the ball dance a bit from fairway lies. I have ground the sole to be more modern by taking the back of the flange rounder. Excellent from the sand, these clubs look just like a D.S. but without the notch from the sole. Sadly only 54 degrees of loft; it'd be a shame to bend one, they sit beautifully, even with a little too much bounce. Heavy too, too heavy for full swing shots, but great from green side trouble.
[/quote]

That is one thing I noticed too was the weight of the club, very heavy.

[rex235]

Dr-

Do you know what the swingweight of the club is?

According to Golf World, the club with the highest swingweight measured by the USGA was Ben Hogan's Driver........[b]G5.[/b]

[Titleist87]

[quote name='rex235' timestamp='1439731647' post='12147258']
Dr-

Do you know what the swingweight of the club is?

According to Golf World, the club with the highest swingweight measured by the USGA was Ben Hogan's Driver........[b]G5.[/b]
[/quote]

No idea but definitely on the heavy side of the swingweight scale.

[HoganApexBlades]

[quote name='rex235' timestamp='1439731647' post='12147258']
Dr-

Do you know what the swingweight of the club is?

According to Golf World, the club with the highest swingweight measured by the USGA was Ben Hogan's Driver........[b]G5.[/b]
[/quote]

That would have definitely helped eliminate the possibility of hooking the ball off the tee, wouldn't you say?

[BIG STU]

[quote name='drstroud' timestamp='1439694329' post='12145956']
[quote name='Coralray' timestamp='1439692617' post='12145778']
That is a great sand iron. I have been playing a M85 version for a month and really like its super soft feel. The copper when in condition like yours and mine does give great traction on aggressive approaches where you can make the ball dance a bit from fairway lies. I have ground the sole to be more modern by taking the back of the flange rounder. Excellent from the sand, these clubs look just like a D.S. but without the notch from the sole. Sadly only 54 degrees of loft; it'd be a shame to bend one, they sit beautifully, even with a little too much bounce. Heavy too, too heavy for full swing shots, but great from green side trouble.
[/quote]

That is one thing I noticed too was the weight of the club, very heavy.
[/quote]All of those old sand wedges were heavy by today's standards for several reasons. Better steel and the design of golf courses has changed since those days. They had thicker sand in those days sorta like what I call brick mason's sand and fairways were not manicured like they are now. Old timers like me that learned the game with those sticks are somewhat screwed now all these newer wedges are so light we have to get a plethora of lead tape to go on them to get the weight up.

[stevemcgee99]

[quote name='rex235' timestamp='1439731647' post='12147258']
According to Golf World, the club with the highest swingweight measured by the USGA was[color=#daa520] Ben Hogan's Driver........[b]G5.[/b][/color]
[/quote]

I can understand why. You don't have to swing hard to get a good shot when the club is heavy.

[hunterho]

Wow. There's a separate Colokrum thread. Just picked up a set today 2-9 & sand iron along with M85W 2-4. Grooves are in great shape. Grips also look great.

[oldschoolrocker]

Nice pickup.

[Coralray]

I have since ground the M85 to a D6 swing weight by softening the leading edge and adding camber to the trailing edge of the sole by removing quite a bit of material from the back of the heal and toe. It is now far more deft green side and plays to 100 yards. At original swing weight it was an unreliable 80 yards. The sole now resembles a modern grind with the face and top line totally left intact. It's now a far more versatile club being capable at approach shots and feels better within the sets progression, instead of being such a heavy outlier, specific to green side trouble shots. I don't see removing the chrome from the sole as a problem, file it smooth and let it rust as it will. Practice a few bunker shots and it will be scoured clean, including likely any rust preventive you may have tried.