Scotty Cameron - Napa

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Titleist-GolferTitleist-Golfer I'd rather be driving a TitleistNorthern CaliforniaMembers  3094WRX Points: 124Posts: 3,094 Titanium Tees
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Why are they so expensive???
The Napa is the least complicated, least forgiving, have the lowest MOI, and appeal to the fewest players, so why on Earth are all Napa's so expensive?
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  • BEND OF THE RIVER GCBEND OF THE RIVER GC Charter Members  6562WRX Points: 66Posts: 6,562 Titanium Tees
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    Most likely supply and demand, many want them and many dont sell them, so when they come up they sell for a good size chunk of change...
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  • nickpoznickpoz Members  946WRX Points: 1Posts: 946 ClubWRX
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    The Napa is a classic design and there aren't a bunch of them out there compared to the other models. I have 2 of them i've never taken out of the bag. I have them just because I love the way they look.
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  • HoosierGolferHoosierGolfer Members  1718WRX Points: 0Posts: 1,718
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    Titleist-Golfer wrote on Jan 24 2009, 02:37 AM:
    The Napa is the least complicated, least forgiving, have the lowest MOI, and appeal to the fewest players, so why on Earth are all Napa's so expensive?


    I would not say that the Napa style is the least complicated putter. Go ask David Mills to build you this style and see what he says. This style is one of the harder putters to get everything correct when building.

    I think with Scotty Napa's it comes down to the fact that these are not normal OTR putters but built in limited numbers in every Napa release. So if you add up the fact they are harder than you think to build, they are built to high standards in quality, normally have special stamping/engraving and then add in the relative low numbers produced and it is easy to see why they priced as they are.

    I own just about every 8802 style putter built in the last twenty five years and none of them come close to matching the Napa's in my collection for feel and craftmanship.

    Supply and demand of course keeps the prices even keel on these. Of all of the putters I have in this style my Scotty Napa's have suffered little or no depreciation. The value of my investment is still there. Can't really say that about all of the others.
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  • KevCarterKevCarter WisconsinClubWRX  12929WRX Points: 472Posts: 12,929 ClubWRX
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    The NAPA was OTR from Titleist's introduction in 1995 through 1999. I think they were all Limited Edition releases from 2000 on. Yes, I'm an old ****. image/laugh.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':lol:' />



    Kevin
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  • HoosierGolferHoosierGolfer Members  1718WRX Points: 0Posts: 1,718
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    Kevin, You are correct. My 1995 black oxide Napa was a OTR. I stand corrected. I'm an old **** also!



    Mark
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  • GaijinGolferGaijinGolfer Makeruna Nippon Members  1044WRX Points: 0Posts: 1,044
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    They are so expensive because they say, "Scotty Cameron" on them. Its just like with Bullseyes. A Scotty Cameron Bullseye goes for waaaaay more money than a regular one that says, "Titleist" or "Achushnet" on it.

    Some people will pay big money for anything that says Scotty Cameron on it.
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  • KevCarterKevCarter WisconsinClubWRX  12929WRX Points: 472Posts: 12,929 ClubWRX
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    Bakemono wrote on Jan 24 2009, 09:57 AM:
    They are so expensive because they say, "Scotty Cameron" on them. Its just like with Bullseyes. A Scotty Cameron Bullseye goes for waaaaay more money than a regular one that says, "Titleist" or "Achushnet" on it.

    Some people will pay big money for anything that says Scotty Cameron on it.




    Now you are catching on. The name adds value, just like Cadillac.



    Kevin
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  • nickpoznickpoz Members  946WRX Points: 1Posts: 946 ClubWRX
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    Bakemono wrote on Jan 24 2009, 10:57 AM:
    They are so expensive because they say, "Scotty Cameron" on them. Its just like with Bullseyes. A Scotty Cameron Bullseye goes for waaaaay more money than a regular one that says, "Titleist" or "Achushnet" on it.

    Some people will pay big money for anything that says Scotty Cameron on it.


    The Cameron Bullseyes are also made of Carbon Steel and fully milled. Better materials and different manufacturing. Thats another reason they are more expensive.
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  • fishlips723fishlips723 Members  321WRX Points: 0Posts: 321
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    I agree,Napa style putters are just beautiful.I started for looking for one after I saw Mickleson use it on TV.It is such a classicly beautiful club.But ofcourse thats when I got the sticker-shock.I did not see for a life of me why they would charge $400-500 for this club.After all,it wasnt made of silver or copper,or was there a lot of money spend on research and design.Napa/8802 have been around from begining of time,its a simple blade shape putter.

    In my search I did find a very nice subsitude,its a Yes putter called Sophia.I have been using her since 2004 (longest time amongst all the clubs that I have ever owned)and she is a beauty.

    I would buy a Napa if the prices werent so outragous.Having Scotty stamp on them diffentley hurts in that department.Although I dont know why,he normally designs such ugly putters,I know,I own 2 of them.
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  • pitbull808pitbull808 Putter Hoarder Marshals  9368WRX Points: 149Posts: 9,368 Marshals
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    CallawayOnly wrote on Jan 24 2009, 05:05 AM:
    Titleist-Golfer wrote on Jan 24 2009, 02:37 AM:
    The Napa is the least complicated, least forgiving, have the lowest MOI, and appeal to the fewest players, so why on Earth are all Napa's so expensive?


    I would not say that the Napa style is the least complicated putter. Go ask David Mills to build you this style and see what he says. This style is one of the harder putters to get everything correct when building.

    I think with Scotty Napa's it comes down to the fact that these are not normal OTR putters but built in limited numbers in every Napa release. So if you add up the fact they are harder than you think to build, they are built to high standards in quality, normally have special stamping/engraving and then add in the relative low numbers produced and it is easy to see why they priced as they are.

    I own just about every 8802 style putter built in the last twenty five years and none of them come close to matching the Napa's in my collection for feel and craftmanship.

    Supply and demand of course keeps the prices even keel on these. Of all of the putters I have in this style my Scotty Napa's have suffered little or no depreciation. The value of my investment is still there. Can't really say that about all of the others.





    KevCarter wrote on Jan 24 2009, 05:59 AM:
    Bakemono wrote on Jan 24 2009, 09:57 AM:
    They are so expensive because they say, "Scotty Cameron" on them. Its just like with Bullseyes. A Scotty Cameron Bullseye goes for waaaaay more money than a regular one that says, "Titleist" or "Achushnet" on it.

    Some people will pay big money for anything that says Scotty Cameron on it.




    Now you are catching on. The name adds value, just like Cadillac.



    Kevin




    I'm an almost old **** and I've owned and sold many Napa's. I remember when I was selling them for $75-100 shortly after they originally came out. In my opinion if not for Phil Mickelson using it and having success with it, there wouldn't have been that much of a demand for them because only after the Master's win did the resale price really skyrocket. I'd never have gotten $500-600 for it back when it originally came out. image/yes.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':yes:' />
    Posted:
  • hogan234hogan234 Members  2386WRX Points: 114Posts: 2,386 Platinum Tees
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    Bakemono wrote on Jan 24 2009, 10:57 AM:
    They are so expensive because they say, "Scotty Cameron" on them. Its just like with Bullseyes. A Scotty Cameron Bullseye goes for waaaaay more money than a regular one that says, "Titleist" or "Achushnet" on it.

    Some people will pay big money for anything that says Scotty Cameron on it.




    Which is interesting because having owned 2 Cameron Bullseyes and 3 Acushnet and pre-Cameron "SC" brass Bullseyes, the older brass models feel much softer (for me at least). The newer PP models have a much harder feel.
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  • MG 1977MG 1977 Members  1649WRX Points: 62Posts: 1,649 Platinum Tees
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    hogan234 wrote on Jan 25 2009, 01:57 PM:
    Bakemono wrote on Jan 24 2009, 10:57 AM:
    They are so expensive because they say, "Scotty Cameron" on them. Its just like with Bullseyes. A Scotty Cameron Bullseye goes for waaaaay more money than a regular one that says, "Titleist" or "Achushnet" on it.

    Some people will pay big money for anything that says Scotty Cameron on it.




    Which is interesting because having owned 2 Cameron Bullseyes and 3 Acushnet and pre-Cameron "SC" brass Bullseyes, the older brass models feel much softer (for me at least). The newer PP models have a much harder feel.






    The Brass one's with SC on them are in fact Scotty Cameron models (or so I belive) thats what the SC stands for. Same with the 1st production of Pro-Platinum Bullesye's...they have Titleist Bullseye on the sole , the bullseye symbol on the heel and they have SC written at the top of the hosel. I actually had a SC Brass Bullseye and agree the feel of it was superb. I didn't know what I had and sold it for peanut's, these Brass SC Bullseye's sell for £150 ($250). Below are two pictures of Brass Bullseye's, the SC one is more rounded to the toe.



    I'm a Bullseye and Napa man as that style putter with plenty of toe flow suits my putting stroke. My Gamer is currenty an old Brass heel shafted Bullseye which cost me £25!!!
    Posted:
  • MG 1977MG 1977 Members  1649WRX Points: 62Posts: 1,649 Platinum Tees
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  • HoosierGolferHoosierGolfer Members  1718WRX Points: 0Posts: 1,718
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    KevCarter wrote on Jan 24 2009, 10:59 AM:
    Bakemono wrote on Jan 24 2009, 09:57 AM:
    They are so expensive because they say, "Scotty Cameron" on them. Its just like with Bullseyes. A Scotty Cameron Bullseye goes for waaaaay more money than a regular one that says, "Titleist" or "Achushnet" on it.

    Some people will pay big money for anything that says Scotty Cameron on it.




    Now you are catching on. The name adds value, just like Cadillac.



    Kevin




    The price of putters are very much just like the price of cars as Kevin has pointed out. You can get to point B from point A in a Geo Metro or you can choose to make the trip in a Cadillac.

    I have owned some pretty low priced vehicles in my life and I currently drive a 2009 Mercury Mountaineer that had a sticker price near $40K. Not a Cadillac, but not a Geo Metro either.

    Same thing can be said of putters. I game a old $10 Spalding Rabbits Foot from time to time just for fun and I can get the ball in the hole with it the same as I can with my $500 Napa. But I must admitt, it is more fun with the Napa just like it is more fun driving my Mountaineer to the course than it was my old $500 beater when I was a kid.

    This debate can go on as I'm sure it will but it seems rather pointless to me. There are lots of putters models out there just like there are lots of vehicles to choose from.

    I have always thought it funny on this site to see guys with $400 drivers in their signature lambasting someone for paying the same price for a putter. Pretty funny stuff.
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  • KevCarterKevCarter WisconsinClubWRX  12929WRX Points: 472Posts: 12,929 ClubWRX
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    CallawayOnly wrote on Jan 25 2009, 10:01 AM:
    The price of putters are very much just like the price of cars as Kevin has pointed out. You can get to point B from point A in a Geo Metro or you can choose to make the trip in a Cadillac.

    I have owned some pretty low priced vehicles in my life and I currently drive a 2009 Mercury Mountaineer that had a sticker price near $40K. Not a Cadillac, but not a Geo Metro either.

    Same thing can be said of putters. I game a old $10 Spalding Rabbits Foot from time to time just for fun and I can get the ball in the hole with it the same as I can with my $500 Napa. But I must admitt, it is more fun with the Napa just like it is more fun driving my Mountaineer to the course than it was my old $500 beater when I was a kid.

    This debate can go on as I'm sure it will but it seems rather pointless to me. There are lots of putters models out there just like there are lots of vehicles to choose from.

    I have always thought it funny on this site to see guys with $400 drivers in their signature lambasting someone for paying the same price for a putter. Pretty funny stuff.




    Good post CallawayOnly. I'm back to driving a $500.00 beater. It's not nearly as much fun! image/laugh.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':lol:' />



    Kevin
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  • HoosierGolferHoosierGolfer Members  1718WRX Points: 0Posts: 1,718
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    Kevin, I agree! I have an old 1990 Ford Ranger that is only still around for trips to the woods and such and I doubt she is worth anything near $500 any longer. Like my old Rabbits Foots, she is still fun to drive once in awhile although I would not want to do it everyday.
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  • fishlips723fishlips723 Members  321WRX Points: 0Posts: 321
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    CallawayOnly wrote on Jan 25 2009, 11:01 AM:
    KevCarter wrote on Jan 24 2009, 10:59 AM:
    Bakemono wrote on Jan 24 2009, 09:57 AM:
    They are so expensive because they say, "Scotty Cameron" on them. Its just like with Bullseyes. A Scotty Cameron Bullseye goes for waaaaay more money than a regular one that says, "Titleist" or "Achushnet" on it.

    Some people will pay big money for anything that says Scotty Cameron on it.




    Now you are catching on. The name adds value, just like Cadillac.



    Kevin




    The price of putters are very much just like the price of cars as Kevin has pointed out. You can get to point B from point A in a Geo Metro or you can choose to make the trip in a Cadillac.

    I have owned some pretty low priced vehicles in my life and I currently drive a 2009 Mercury Mountaineer that had a sticker price near $40K. Not a Cadillac, but not a Geo Metro either.

    Same thing can be said of putters. I game a old $10 Spalding Rabbits Foot from time to time just for fun and I can get the ball in the hole with it the same as I can with my $500 Napa. But I must admitt, it is more fun with the Napa just like it is more fun driving my Mountaineer to the course than it was my old $500 beater when I was a kid.

    This debate can go on as I'm sure it will but it seems rather pointless to me. There are lots of putters models out there just like there are lots of vehicles to choose from.

    I have always thought it funny on this site to see guys with $400 drivers in their signature lambasting someone for paying the same price for a putter. Pretty funny stuff.






    Let me see if I can explain how I justify paying 400 for a driver but have a hard time doing that for a putter (although I have never lambasted anyone for doing so,to each his own).

    To me there is a lot of R&D that is involved with drivers.Also the material used,such as carbone composites,and titanium are more expensive to develope and use.Dont forget the shafts that are used and how great and complicated they are in both design and development.

    But the putters arent the same,specially this putter in question,SC Napa.Its a very basic(although beautiful) head that was basically designed in 1800's.It is made of a very basic and ample metal,steel,and its attached to a $15 shaft.

    I can see spending $100-125 for this putter,but $400-500 will have to weight till I win the lottery,.......twice.

    I rather stick to my $120 Sophia made by Yes putters.Its a very beautiful copy of the original 8802 and very functional.Had her since 04,longer then any other club in my bag.





    Please dont take what I said as lambasting or insult,I would never tell anyone how they should spend their money.



    By the way,how did all these Bulls eyes get here??I like to see some beautiful pictures of the SC Napa
    Posted:
  • JohnnyJohnny Get Kwok'd Charter Members  8708WRX Points: 61Posts: 8,708 Titanium Tees
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    I have owned (and own) some of the best blades out there.. including the original 64 8802 and original designed by AP. Both are exceptional putters with great feel, but I have to give a very slight edge to my tour sc napa in PP finish. Maybe its the PP I prefer because I like my SC masters winner as well and it's PP finish,but yes I think it comes down to supply and demand. Ppl who by SC Napas know what they are looking for and usually keep them. Anser style ppl tend to test drive and more of them are made as well.
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  • geogolfgeogolf Members  692WRX Points: 61Posts: 692 Golden Tee
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    Very few people can really putt well with them-- But 8802 shapes just look good.



    But since a Production one (non limited) hasn't been made in 10 years.... it's more of a collectors realm. Know how it goes, when you cant get something- some folks want it more.



    Of Note. ALL Napa's from the Original Gun Blues to the more modern Limited Napa Valley are a 2 piece design. (photo below) You can find very different hosels on gun blues. Some with more offset than others thicker and thinner diameters.....showing quite a bit of hand work.
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  • sergizmosergizmo Members  2763WRX Points: 156Posts: 2,763 Titanium Tees
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    That makes sense. It would be an absolute nightmare to mill one piece. A ton of 3-D milling with small stepover for stage one. I can't imagine the soft-jaws for stage 2 as there are virtually no flat surfaces and the whole neck is compound curves. Just thinking about the amount of code editing post CAM and cycle time would be enough to dissuade almost anyone from doing it one piece.



    The only 1 piecer I remember seeing was a Webb. He did a limited run of 10 or so out of 1018 or 1020. The price was 250 UK pounds and he said he was making no money doing them.
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  • HoosierGolferHoosierGolfer Members  1718WRX Points: 0Posts: 1,718
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    I don't have a ton of pictures of my Napa's but here is what I have; COA#006450

    You can look at my black oxide Napa through the COA link. Here is another of it on my desk and the one in my aviator.
    Posted:
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  • MG 1977MG 1977 Members  1649WRX Points: 62Posts: 1,649 Platinum Tees
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    I think the American Classic Napa is the best looking putter I've ever seen... I need to save up some cash and ho me one of those to game image/smile.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':)' />



    EDIT;- Sorry FishLips.... it was me who posted the pics of the Bullseye's. Somebody mentioned how just having Scotty Cameron on them made them more expensive, I was just showing the difference in shape...I love a nice Bullseye putter pure classic beauty 'You can't beat a bit of Bully'
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  • geogolfgeogolf Members  692WRX Points: 61Posts: 692 Golden Tee
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    sergizmo wrote on Jan 25 2009, 01:30 PM:
    That makes sense. It would be an absolute nightmare to mill one piece. A ton of 3-D milling with small stepover for stage one. I can't imagine the soft-jaws for stage 2 as there are virtually no flat surfaces and the whole neck is compound curves. Just thinking about the amount of code editing post CAM and cycle time would be enough to dissuade almost anyone from doing it one piece.



    The only 1 piecer I remember seeing was a Webb. He did a limited run of 10 or so out of 1018 or 1020. The price was 250 UK pounds and he said he was making no money doing them.






    Serg, I hear ya- But it can be done ! :-)
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  • Z-ManZ-Man Members  1322WRX Points: 0Posts: 1,322
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    Geo,is that your next putter?I want one
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  • fishlips723fishlips723 Members  321WRX Points: 0Posts: 321
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    mg-1977

    No worries;Your comment about Cameron stamp and its effect on the price is well taken.



    But we have to agree that its a very good looking putter no matter what the price.The pictures of the black oxide finish is very beautiful.



    Very nice.
    Posted:
  • sergizmosergizmo Members  2763WRX Points: 156Posts: 2,763 Titanium Tees
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    geogolf wrote on Jan 25 2009, 03:27 PM:
    sergizmo wrote on Jan 25 2009, 01:30 PM:
    That makes sense. It would be an absolute nightmare to mill one piece. A ton of 3-D milling with small stepover for stage one. I can't imagine the soft-jaws for stage 2 as there are virtually no flat surfaces and the whole neck is compound curves. Just thinking about the amount of code editing post CAM and cycle time would be enough to dissuade almost anyone from doing it one piece.



    The only 1 piecer I remember seeing was a Webb. He did a limited run of 10 or so out of 1018 or 1020. The price was 250 UK pounds and he said he was making no money doing them.






    Serg, I hear ya- But it can be done ! :-)




    Nice Geo. It's going to be a wild ride, lotsa tweaking. I think almost every putter guy wants to do one but when you really look at how much work and time (read:money) it takes to do right one piece it can be a little intimidating.



    What kind of offset are you shooting for?



    You may be able to do a fairly large run and sell them all. The market is fairly small, but so is the supply. Once you have the CAD model perfected, CAM and code where you want, fixturing made and a couple good protos almost all the hard work is done anyway.



    Good luck. I look forward to any pics down the line on the forum as things progress.
    Posted:

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