Now that's something you don't see everyday...LDA competitor at the Range

[CallawayKid86]

A few years ago Bubba talked about how the LDA wanted him to come out and compete. He said it wasn't worth the time it takes to completely redo his swing to compete in 1 event. Given time, some of the guys like woodland and watson could probably get their club head speed up in the 130-140 range, but the amount of work wouldn't be worth it.

[DC300]

I'll say this, I have won local LDA events, my winning drive was 380. I don't for one second believe that a true professional golfer like a Bubba or Woods couldn't learn to hit it with those guys, its NOT the same swing. You have to learn it. I hit balls a couple times a week for a couple months and managed to get a few out there over 400 yards, but all that said, my golf game went straight to hell in a hand basket. You need to over rotate and involve the lower body more to generate max torque, it's not the way you "golf" On the course, I have settled to the fact that I can only get about 300 yards off the tee and be accurate, as soon as I go for more, I'm all over the place. I'm no fool, I'm not on the level of these guys in any way shape or form, but if I can do that in a short time, these guys that have real talent and conditioning could do it. I'm a fast twitch person in all sports, I'm not strong, I'm not big, I'm not tall like Bubba, I just get through the ball. I'm much more like an out of shape Sadlowski than a Woodland and I really think that's more of an advantage than the stocky muscle for PURE distance. You need flexibility and fast twitch potential more than anything else. I think DJ would be the guy that could shock the world if he wanted to.

On the subject of length vs distance, once you groove that swing, another inch is worth about 7-10 yards. When I was fooling around with it, I had a long driver that I could smack pretty consistently around 360 on the course and then my usual driver for a tighter set up. That was a lot of fun, but more scoring was AWFUL, you throw yourself out of whack with those long clubs.

[SHIVAN]

Everyone needs to remember that before Bubba or DJ did it on tour, people used to say, "No way a PGA player can repeatedly hit the fairway 350yds out, in a tournament." Before Tiger did it, no one could win a US Open by 15 strokes. Etc...

If DJ, Tiger, Bubba, Woodland, or some of the other big hitters wanted to dial up 140-150mph with an LDA max length driver, I assume they would pursue that goal with the same incredible attention to detail and success as they approached attempting to shoot 65 at Augusta.

The Long Drive guys are incredibly impressive, but has anyone ever heard a golf instructor or pro talk about hitting their clubs at "80%"? When you hear the LDA guys talk, they talk about giving it 110%, do not hold back, leave everything on the grid.

I guarantee you that Monte (and all the others who attempt to compete as pro golfers on a tour) has, or had, a "go-lo and shoot 63" swing, as well as a "hit a 400yd drive" swing.

[Jasonfish_02]

[quote name='davidw88' timestamp='1390810906' post='8541641']
[quote name='bNeill' timestamp='1390810144' post='8541629']
[quote name='davidw88' timestamp='1390806213' post='8541509']
There just saying that the pya pros aren't trying to hit it as hard as they possibly can, they have to hit them straight, these fellas are just trying to hit it as far as possible, I bet they could get a few more mph out of there swing if they tried, maybe not as much as them but would be a bit closer.
[/quote]

The grid is actually really tight at those speeds.
[/quote]

But they only have to hit one out of 6 in it, not every shot.
[/quote]

Regardless if it's 1 out of 6 or not. At 400 yards long 60 yards isn't all the wide. Most golfers hit a driver what 260-280? Well give the LD guys what they use to hit 260 and I'm willing to bet you'd be very surprised at how often they would then be in the fairway. At 400 yards being off 1-2 degrees is huge when at 260 it's not that big of a deal and you will still be in the fairway. My LD swing is completely different t than my go out find fairways and play a round of golf swing.

[jons1]

Even in the videos i posted in this thread, pga tour players have had driving contests where they are trying to hit the ball as far as possible, and can not hit it as far as the top long drive competitors using the same length clubs. Watson, Johnson, etc., are long, but a good 50 yards behind the top LDA competitors. They produce more clubhead speed/ball speed. I can assure you that Bubba could not hit a 3 iron 350 yards, but he just backs off it 100 yards to keep it in play. And the running joke between Tiger and Bubba is how much further Bubba can hit the ball, so I don't know why Tiger is even in this thread.

[Jasonfish_02]

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=D3v_UNBEZQ8

Watch at the end. Gary picks up the LD club they have and went 353. I get he isn't training for LD but come on, he is hitting 191 BS with his play driver. LDer's will go 2 Bills with their play drivers if they wanted to. I don't doubt He could get up to 200 with an LD stick given time but 5mph bs isn't as easy to come by when you're at that speed. 210bs is flat out brining it, but that doesn't even come close to 220.

[jons1]

[quote name='Jasonfish_02' timestamp='1390885954' post='8548783']
[url="https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=D3v_UNBEZQ8"]https://m.youtube.co...h?v=D3v_UNBEZQ8[/url]

Watch at the end. Gary picks up the LD club they have and went 353.
[/quote]

If a Miller or Sadlowski went after him, they would hit the same club 400+.

[SHIVAN]

[quote name='Jasonfish_02' timestamp='1390885954' post='8548783']
...I get he isn't training for LD... LDer's (presumably who are training for speed) will go 2 Bills with their play drivers if they wanted to.

I don't doubt he could get up to 200 with an LD stick given time...[/quote]

Ok so again, we take the fastest of the best players in the world, and expect him to dial it up on command? Wouldn't you say that LD takes a bit of work to excel? Can't just grab 150mph club speed on command...

I bet you could give Tim Burke a conforming set of 14, an entry in to the WM event this week, and he wouldn't make the cut. Is that fair to Tim?

Nor is it fair to Gary to expect he can just pick up a long driver and start popping 220bs.

[Al.J]

If you listen to Gary's comment about using the LD driver, he said he choked up quite a bit so he could control it. Give him some time practicing with it and he'd be grabbing the end of the shaft and right there with the rest of the big boys. Pretty impressive that his gamer went 343 !!

[jons1]

[quote name='Al.J' timestamp='1390928823' post='8551037']
If you listen to Gary's comment about using the LD driver, he said he choked up quite a bit so he could control it. Give him some time practicing with it and he'd be grabbing the end of the shaft and right there with the rest of the big boys. Pretty impressive that his gamer went 343 !!
[/quote]

I feel like a broken record... JS's 45" gamer he uses for tournaments goes over 400 on the fly. just saying. Gary is really long compared to, say, Ricky Fowler and Justin Leonard.

[SHIVAN]

I feel like a broken record too. Butch Harmon is SPECIFICALLY working on getting Gary Woodland to swing more under control. Everyone keeps telling me how hard it is for the best in the long drive game to become the best. How hard they work. How much time, and how many reps, they put in honing their craft of going 110% for that one golden bb to get them the crown.

Then you have a PGA touring pro who happens to be a fast swinger pick up an LD club, while still ACTIVELY being instructed to hit fairways and greens, while shooting sub-70 for four rounds and 72 holes, and expect that he can put in 5 reps and miraculously pump out 220bs? Really?

Just as I pointed out about Tim Burke, does anyone here believe that Tim could be given an exemption today for the WM Open and make the cut? Would that be fair to Tim?

I would wager that if Gary Woodland put in the reps to generate 145mph+ club speed, he could do it. He's simply not going to do it though. The World Long Drive pays what, $250,000, [u][b]once[/b][/u] per year? Gary can win once, and make 4x that....I bet he'll take 353yd for the Callaway side show, and the ability to play for $1M every other week.

[Jasonfish_02]

[quote name='SHIVAN' timestamp='1390926459' post='8550699']
[quote name='Jasonfish_02' timestamp='1390885954' post='8548783']
...I get he isn't training for LD... LDer's (presumably who are training for speed) will go 2 Bills with their play drivers if they wanted to.

I don't doubt he could get up to 200 with an LD stick given time...[/quote]

Ok so again, we take the fastest of the best players in the world, and expect him to dial it up on command? Wouldn't you say that LD takes a bit of work to excel? Can't just grab 150mph club speed on command...

I bet you could give Tim Burke a conforming set of 14, an entry in to the WM event this week, and he wouldn't make the cut. Is that fair to Tim?

Nor is it fair to Gary to expect he can just pick up a long driver and start popping 220bs.
[/quote]

I agree that it does take some work to excel but raw speed like that is not something everyone can obtain just by training for it and working hard. No doubt Gary is long as well as other PGA guys and with training might make it through a couple rounds believe me when I tell you the top LD guys are on a completely different level, the "normal" LD guys is where I'd put Gary at with training.

Before ever starting LD I'd go to the range 1x a week golf 9 holes 2 times a week and would consistently carry the ball 340+ and with roll out between 350-370 depending on the ball flight verified with GPS with my stock driver. So someone who would hit 100 balls at the range and golf 9 holes twice a week was longer than Gary is now and in LD I am nobody special. I think it's safe to say he would far and away hand my butt to me on the course but speed isn't something everyone has, yes he is fast compared to PGA guys. Who knows he might not be any faster with a full 50" club, some guys are and some guys aren't. All in all You can build speed and work on speed but lots of people just have more of it than others.

Since what you're saying is all it takes is training...I shall quit my day job and just work on my golf game. According to your idea I shall then be able to make it to the tour because I have put the time in and trained for it?

[Donnierparker]

How many guys in the world consistently swing 145? Maybe 8-10 that I know of. It's a lot harder to get from 125 to 145 than it is to get to 125. Wouldn't you agree jason?

[SHIVAN]

[quote name='Jasonfish_02' timestamp='1391050621' post='8562242']
[quote name='SHIVAN' timestamp='1390926459' post='8550699']
[quote name='Jasonfish_02' timestamp='1390885954' post='8548783']
...I get he isn't training for LD... LDer's (presumably who are training for speed) will go 2 Bills with their play drivers if they wanted to.

I don't doubt he could get up to 200 with an LD stick given time...[/quote]

Ok so again, we take the fastest of the best players in the world, and expect him to dial it up on command? Wouldn't you say that LD takes a bit of work to excel? Can't just grab 150mph club speed on command...

I bet you could give Tim Burke a conforming set of 14, an entry in to the WM event this week, and he wouldn't make the cut. Is that fair to Tim?

Nor is it fair to Gary to expect he can just pick up a long driver and start popping 220bs.
[/quote]

I agree that it does take some work to excel but raw speed like that is not something everyone can obtain just by training for it and working hard. No doubt Gary is long as well as other PGA guys and with training might make it through a couple rounds believe me when I tell you the top LD guys are on a completely different level, the "normal" LD guys is where I'd put Gary at with training.

Before ever starting LD I'd go to the range 1x a week golf 9 holes 2 times a week and would consistently carry the ball 340+ and with roll out between 350-370 depending on the ball flight verified with GPS with my stock driver. So someone who would hit 100 balls at the range and golf 9 holes twice a week was longer than Gary is now and in LD I am nobody special. I think it's safe to say he would far and away hand my butt to me on the course but speed isn't something everyone has, yes he is fast compared to PGA guys. Who knows he might not be any faster with a full 50" club, some guys are and some guys aren't. All in all You can build speed and work on speed but lots of people just have more of it than others.

Since what you're saying is all it takes is training...I shall quit my day job and just work on my golf game. According to your idea I shall then be able to make it to the tour because I have put the time in and trained for it?
[/quote]

No actually what I am saying is that every LD person I've read talks about how much hard work, dedicated LD practice, it takes to get to the top level. Then they want to talk about how Bubba, Gary and DJ are so short, even though those guys are not putting in the reps with any sort of commitment to pure distance.

I'm pointing out that it can not be had both ways, and using Tim Burke as an example of exactly what I mean. Tim is top of the heap right now in LD, and if you handed him an exemption and 14 clubs he wouldn't make the cut in Phoenix this week.

BEFORE someone like Gary Woodland should have his "LD" swing considered against guys like Tim Burke, Jaime Sadlowski, Mark Winther, et al, it might be better if Gary actually got in some practice at it, and see what he could do. Right now, he's got a Butch Harmon angel sitting on his shoulder telling him to "keep it in control", "you can eagle the par 5's from the fairway big guy"....

That being said, I doubt you would ever seen Gary Woodland give up his day job to compete in LD, or even put in the reps to do LD. Would you give up a shot at $1.0+ million per week to prove that you could hit it 450yds? I wouldn't. I would take my 30x.x average drive distance over the year that Woodland has, and count the multi-millions in my bank account.

[Pleasedwith3putts]

If you ever go on a launch monitor you will find how difficult it is to "find" even 5mph swingspeed. The difference between feeling smooth and flat out can be litreally a few mph for most players and there are very few PGA pros who can crank it to 130 mph with any length driver.

As others have said, the difference between a Woodland and a LD guy is night and day - Tiger is not even featuring in the debate. You could give him the next year to prepare, with all the equipment choices he wants and he almost certainly could not make the grade as so much of it is genetics (not many obvious physical similarites between say Jamie and Joe Miller)

[SHIVAN]

[quote name='Pleasedwith3putts' timestamp='1391105924' post='8565972']
As others have said, the difference between a Woodland and a LD guy is night and day - Tiger is not even featuring in the debate. You could give him the next year to prepare, with all the equipment choices he wants and he almost certainly could not make the grade as so much of it is genetics...[/quote]

I agree, the difference is night and day.

[BobbieDollar]

imo you need a large range of motion in the shoulder turn and very open and fast hips to be a long driver. The work done is in developing fast twitch responses between brain and body to groove engrams or pathways in the brain that will accept top speeds as normal. Tiger has limited shoulder turn now due to all his weightlifting and does not hit as far as when he was skinny back 15 years ago. Also long drivers will always attempt to hit up on the ball and get their heads well behind the impact zone like baseball sluggers, this is to gnerate leverage and allow for max extension of both arms thru followthru. The more separation one can generate between shoulder turn and hip turn the greater the torque the faster the undwinding of the swing. You even see reverse pivots in the backswing with Sadlowski and Tuone that enable massive 150 degree or more shoulder turn at the top.

[hoganswing]

I've never seen a long driver in person. I've seen long tour pro's like John Daly and they're fun to watch so if a long driver is 50 + yards past them that would be very impressive to see.

[GoldenBearCub]

Tiger's injury free rubber band spine of 2000 + A tad less than Tiger's current build= A potential chance.
Kudos to mcdonoughball236, according to Butch, Tiger's SS when he began with him was 135 average on solid days, still swinging for accuracy. Did a little tinkering on Flightscope's trajectory optimizer. Don't think he could do it? Listen to these stats for a sec.
Flashback to 2000 or so. Instead of a stickly Tiger we have a much more chiseled figure. Average swing speed for Tiger hovers at 126, with a ball speed of 183. That is 90% of Tiger's potential according to himself (he has surely proved it). Given this, his full potential would allow him to swing at 140 miles per hour. Now, his smash factor is obviously not going to stay at his solid 1.47 average, so lets bump that down to 1.4 with a 45 inch driver still. Ball speed with a 1.4 smash at 140 SS gives us 196 mph of ball speed. His AoA is obviously negative. 1* increase in AoA will slice off about 100 rpm's. 2200 turns into 1900 with just a 3 degree change. He's gonna start to go for a bit more launch off the tee, let's say he'll strive for 14*, rather than his traditional 11*. Plug that baby into the Optimizer and you get 345 carry, 389 total on a firm driving range fairway. I'd love 44 yards of roll, wouldn't you?
But wait, there's more? Really? I haven't event thrown in the variable of Driver LENGTH itself yet. He's playing anywhere from a 43.5 to a 44.75 in the last decade so we'll average it out at a 44. Toss him a 48" driver, and once he gets used to it, his smash factor will surely go down, but his swing speed is about to increase even more. 3 mph for every 2" more. That's 6 mph. 148mph multiplied by 1.35 Smash this time, and we get 200 mph ball speed.
OPTIMIZER FINAL RESULTS: [b]366 carry, 401 total. [/b]
Food for thought everyone. We'll get there, in two that is.
Bubba on the other hand? No doubt he could, Smash of 1.55 currently is insane. Get that SS up if he could and he'd be all over it with that off the charts AoA of his.

[mesquite2]

200 mph is not going to win anything in the Open division at Remax Worlds, last year's winning drive had a ball speed of 222mph. Not all LD competitors use a 48 inch shaft, I never did, my speed actually went down with a 48 inch shaft. Phil & Vijay tried using a 48 inch shaft on tour, didn't last long though.
You just can't say that Tiger WILL get this much roll or that much roll, all parts of a LD grid are different, it takes a lot of work & dedication to be a world class LD competitor. Optimizer numbers are just that, numbers on a machine, very different, never seen anybody win a world championship with optimizer numbers yet, every LD competitor has a limit for both swing & ball speed, you can't just keep going up in both.

[druce001]

I've played a few rounds with a LDA guy, he played a different game...

[jons1]

ive seen j sads at outdoor range doing clinic, different planet. 400 carry on trackman. i can never understand how those guys cant dial it back 50 yards and pitt their way around a golf course and dominate every tour. maybe one day a guy will

[VinceRKG]

Oh you guys, lol these guys can play also. Landon is an awesome guy to be around and talk with. Great golfer also. We always hang out in Mesquite at Krank Kondo with everyone and its awesome.

Lots of hitters now play amazing as well, I can name three guys that can go out to any course and shoot under par they are that good. While playing a round out of no where, Tim shot 74 and hit all but one FWW with his LD club at 48 USGA. Mitch who is on staff with Krank and works at Legacy shot a 60 that day. Danny from Scottsdale has been in lots of State Opens and past five years has missed WM open and US open spots by 1-2 strokes. Crazy....But lots of these guys can play.

Tim Burke was just at Krank last week and avg ball speed of 230 on our machine which is at the top of Charts for Krank with their hitters. On Tackman hes at 221 right now which is moving!! This year will be interesting big time to see how everyone is picking up speed to match his.

I can guarantee no PGA Tour golfer will ever come close to a top Long Driver in competition. And if we take some LD hitters to the course, they can match them.

[JasonFL]

I saw some guy the other at the range that no doubt was a pro.

Couldn't stand within 20 feet of him without ear plugs...and he was wearing ear plugs.

Absolutely nothing like it.