Making my own putter

[yoonie]

Have some qs

So I'm currently in the process of designing a putter in solidworks that I plan to get CNCed out of 1018 carbon steel. The only thing is, I had some qs that I had trouble with-

1) Exactly how wide/deep should the hole for hosel be? I'm looking for something like the heavy putter- 1 bend, and clean into the putter head.

2) Where should the COG be? I was thinking slightly above the center of the face to start a good roll, but seeing that the putter is slightly above the ground, should the COG actually be slightly below the center to be above the equator of the ball at impact?

3) I'm looking for a very heavy putter- actually, something near (but not quite at) the swing weight of the "Heavy Putter". Does anyone know how heavy the head should be?

4) I can't seem to find info on the exact bend angles/lengths on putter shafts. If I understand correctly, I want the projection of the shaft (as it lines up w/ the grip) to enter the center of the clubface. Basically, I can't figure out exactly where to put the hole for the shaft.

Thanks in advance.

[drewspin]

1) Width of the depends on the shaft diameter you plan to use.

 

3) VERY heavy headweight would be 400g. Most "heavy" heads are between 350-370 grams.

 

Don't forget to include sole draft.

[yoonie]

Thanks. I was actually tryign to figure out some design to use for the sole, but thanks for the reminder. So if I plan to use X diameter shaft, should the hole be exactly X size? Or should it be slightly larger like .01 or .001 inches bigger?

[glenwayputters]

Thanks. I was actually tryign to figure out some design to use for the sole, but thanks for the reminder. So if I plan to use X diameter shaft, should the hole be exactly X size? Or should it be slightly larger like .01 or .001 inches bigger?

 

good putters do not use any type of shaft insertion into the topline. they have hosels that the shaft fits on to.

 

if you have a hosel that inserts into the topline, you run the risk of having a putter that has dead spots in the face, as well as a putter that will not have good balance.

 

jay

[yoonie]

I see- i didn't know that. Thanks for the info. Where would I be able to find exact measurements for a particualr shaft?

 

Btw, sole draft= raised surface to help club pass through grass?

 

Also, does anyone have any advice on the thickness of the face? I really have no idea where to start.

[drewspin]

No- sole draft is generally negative draft from the face to the rear flange.

 

I suggest a recon trip to your favorite golf shop with a micrometer and a pencil and a notebook.

[yoonie]

Haha, yeah thanks. I was hoping to avoid that, but I guess there's no other way. Just wondering- what material did you make the putter in your sig out of? I also don't think I'm really understanding sole draft- "Negative bounce on the sole that prevents the putter from sitting or looking closed. Allows the putter to sit open but never closed. Players on tour don’t mind a putter that looks open but they never want to see a putter that is closed."

 

So it's basically grinding the back flange near the toe to make it sit squarer?

[drewspin]

Byron Morgan made the putter in my signature from a solid billet of 1018 carbon steel.

 

Negative draft can be understood by imagining a sole with 0* draft as a horizontal plane from the bottom front of the face to the bottom of the back flange. On a putter with 2* negative draft, when the bottom front of the face is on the horizontal plan, the rear flange will be elevated 2* above the horizontal plane.

[yoonie]

I see, thanks a lot. So there's no slope heel/toe, right? How thick the face on your putter if you don't mind me asking? Sorry, I don't have a micrometer.

[drewspin]

Yes there is camber in the sole, if that is what you mean. You can see it in these profile shots:

 

 

 

 

 

The top line on my handmade is .300 and the face thickness in front of the pocket is aproximately .050.

 

More details here

[yoonie]

wow that is beautiful. Only .05 inches (not cm, right?) thick? Thanks, now I know I was very much on the wrong track (mine was .45). Do you have any idea how a thicker face would feel?

 

Edit: Got it, inches. Great documentation of your putter being made. Is it everything you hoped for? Also, regarding the camber, would that be helpful on a face balanced putter? Again, thanks for all teh help drew.

[specialblend218]

Thanks. I was actually tryign to figure out some design to use for the sole, but thanks for the reminder. So if I plan to use X diameter shaft, should the hole be exactly X size? Or should it be slightly larger like .01 or .001 inches bigger?

 

 

When you print out your plans to give to the machine shop just make a tolerance note. exmple// 0.370" -.000 +.005

 

That way it will be between 0.370"-0.375"

 

 

 

Also for the half shaft offset I would start with the putter at the origin (0,0,0) and make the hosel go up in the Z direction that way when you want to offset the shaft you will just need to draw on the XY Plane and and use the coordinates of (0,Y) for the center point of the hosel, Y being a variable of how far you want the hosel to be from the toe or heel (if the you were to roll the ball in the X direction looking down on the putter from address. Then drawing the hosel symmetrically using this point will give you half shaft offset no matter the thickness of hosel or shaft.

 

Hope this helps and didn't confuse you... :rolleyes: Don't forget to post pics when you get it made.

[drewspin]

Thanks for the compliment. Byron is a master. All credit goes to him.

 

The face thickness in the pocket is .050" or thereabouts. There are plenty of putters with and without pockets that feel great. If the putter has no pocket, the face will have a variable thickness, but generally thicker than the topline - a thin top line is .300"

 

I think sole camber is generally considered necessary - I haven't seen very many putters without some radius from heel to toe.

 

Tell me about solidworks. What's involved in going from solidworks to CNC?

[ajlacombe]

Thanks. I was actually tryign to figure out some design to use for the sole, but thanks for the reminder. So if I plan to use X diameter shaft, should the hole be exactly X size? Or should it be slightly larger like .01 or .001 inches bigger?

 

 

When you print out your plans to give to the machine shop just make a tolerance note. exmple// 0.370" -.000 +.005

 

That way it will be between 0.370"-0.375"

 

 

 

Also for the half shaft offset I would start with the putter at the origin (0,0,0) and make the hosel go up in the Z direction that way when you want to offset the shaft you will just need to draw on the XY Plane and and use the coordinates of (0,Y) for the center point of the hosel, Y being a variable of how far you want the hosel to be from the toe or heel (if the you were to roll the ball in the X direction looking down on the putter from address. Then drawing the hosel symmetrically using this point will give you half shaft offset no matter the thickness of hosel or shaft.

 

Hope this helps and didn't confuse you... :rolleyes: Don't forget to post pics when you get it made.

 

I think that there may be some confusion here. He is talking about Solid Modeling not drafting, so there is no drawing. He is creating a solid model and tool paths for the CNC machine will be programmed, then the part will be cut.

 

I have a Mills Tradition and the topline is 0.4", and the pocket depth is 0.055" (face thickness 0.345"), so a much thicker face works fine. It is a lot of personal preference. I suggest you do some research on what you like before you start cutting, unless you have the ability to cut a bunch of putters :crazy:

 

I am actually working on a similar project. I am fortunate enough to work for UGS so I am using our own products for solid modeling and manufacturing. My main question now is - what are the dimensions of the following shafts from Golfsmith:

• Flared Bell Tip Shaft
  
• Over the hosel shaft
  

I need the tip ID profile in order to spec the hosel post for teh shaft to go over. One of these does not have the OD dimesion either.

 

Thanks,

 

Andy

[yoonie]

Thanks for the info on face thickness. I've been trying to do some research, but it's hard to find putters in 1018 in varying face thickness to try out.

 

Regarding solidworks, it's a CAD program so there shouldn't much involved in preparing it for CNCing except sending the file in the proper format and then firing up the machine.

[ajlacombe]

Thanks for the info on face thickness. I've been trying to do some research, but it's hard to find putters in 1018 in varying face thickness to try out.

 

Regarding solidworks, it's a CAD program so there shouldn't much involved in preparing it for CNCing except sending the file in the proper format and then firing up the machine.

 

My tradition is stainless, but I do not think that that matters...

 

How are you going to handle the hosel? The attachment. I need to find a way to get that done.

[yoonie]

I really have no idea right now. I'm thinking of just milling a nub for the hosel to fit over and doing any filing as necessary. For the putter shaft, I'm probably just gonna buy one that I plan to use and do the appropriate measurements before I get the putter milled, and then get it cut to length.

 

Btw drew, how would you describe the feel of your putter? what about you aj?

[drewspin]

I don't have mine yet... it's out for black oxide finishing right now.

 

Byron says it feels at least as good as it looks, maybe better: Soft and solid with no hint of pinginess. Byron's seen a putter or two, so I am thrilled about that assessment.

[specialblend218]

 

 

I think that there may be some confusion here. He is talking about Solid Modeling not drafting, so there is no drawing. He is creating a solid model and tool paths for the CNC machine will be programmed, then the part will be cut.

 

 

 

 

I know he's talking about solid modeling but he must draw the features to extrude/cut/revolve/etc... Also Yoonie are you doing the tool paths too? If so I would check with the machine shop first. I've only worked for one Job shop and they wouldn't take anyone's own CNC program. They would rather have plans and leave it up to them for CNC programming, mainly because most of them use MasterCAM, Gibbs, etc... to do programming, so they would redraw it anyway also you would need to know what machine they would run on it, which will change the program's feeds and speeds accordingly.

 

Once you get the solidworks completed lets see some pics! ;)

[ajlacombe]

I really have no idea right now. I'm thinking of just milling a nub for the hosel to fit over and doing any filing as necessary. For the putter shaft, I'm probably just gonna buy one that I plan to use and do the appropriate measurements before I get the putter milled, and then get it cut to length.

 

Btw drew, how would you describe the feel of your putter? what about you aj?

 

I have not made the one I am working on. The Tradition is "Solid". That is the term that comes to mind when I think about it. It is a heavy putter, so that may not be to the liking of someone that wants a lighter head. This one is 360g and 34".

[yoonie]

So what do you guys think- if I wanted a softer more muted feel, what should i go for? Thinner? I'm definitely going ot head down to the store (got some irons to fit!) and I'm gonna check out some putters there for comparison, but I just wanted some ideas/theories.

 

Should be able to get some pics of the design up soon.

 

Thanks for the info about milling specialblend. My friend has some more experience (mech e major) so I was mostly relying on his experience. I've only done a little bit myself. If what you say about teh schematics is true, I could just send them teh solidworks file to use for any figures they need, right?

[ajlacombe]

I would say heavier and thicker is going to produce a soft feel. The thinner the face, the more deflection there will be and that deflection will be an additional vibration that will be sent up the shaft. Whether that is a good or bad thing will depend on your reaction to that vibration.

 

Practice putt with a bunch of putters, use your fingers to determine the thickness of the face and the relative weight of the putters. See which ones you like and then determine if there is a common physical aspect between those putters. That should get you in the ball park for what you like:

• Weight
  
• Shape
  
• Face thickness
  

Good luck,

 

Andy

[yoonie]

This is vaguely what it's supposd to look like. This was a sketch for my friend to show him the kind of shaping and such there is left to do get the weight/COG right, so a lot of things are done half-assed. There's a cut line where there shouldn't be one, and the alignment line is supposed to continue all the way to the circle. I have to adjust the COG so it's lil lower than what it is now I think.

 

Right now, it should weight ~500g, so I'll be further shaping the bumpers to get rid of another 100-150g or so.

[drewspin]

Yoonie - what's the theory on the ring/circle?

[yoonie]

just an alignment aid/ picking up the ball. Also helps in allowing me to position the COG. Once i get the bumpers shaped the way I want, I can do a little fine tuning w/ the thickness/bend. Also, there's a cavity under the neck to the ring, it's just hard to see. Face thickness @ 0.25 inches

[lefty92]

Looking good Yoonie! It's definitely unique.

Are you giving any prototypes away?;)

[yoonie]

Haha, I think I'm just gonna take my chances on one and get it as close as I can. I think any other prototypes would have to come in the future, when I have a little more cash. This one is a little closer to final, but I need to add the alignment line, adjust the bumpers and shape of the neck of the ring, and add walls to surround the cavity and support the neck. Also, it's upside down.

[sergizmo]

yoonie>

 

Just so you know, the rear portion with the circle will take some doing. Because it is so long and so thin, it may start to resonate (chatter) when milled if specialized fixturing isn't developped. It would need to be supported along the entire length on the second side (depends if you do top or bottom first) to prevent this.

 

Not trying to discourage you in any way, just giving you a heads up.

 

If you have any questions feel free to ask.

 

BTW, nice CAD drawings! What are you using, Solid Works?

 

Serge

[cbae]

yoonie>

 

Just so you know, the rear portion with the circle will take some doing. Because it is so long and so thin, it may start to resonate (chatter) when milled if specialized fixturing isn't developped. It would need to be supported along the entire length on the second side (depends if you do top or bottom first) to prevent this.

 

Not trying to discourage you in any way, just giving you a heads up.

 

If you have any questions feel free to ask.

 

BTW, nice CAD drawings! What are you using, Solid Works?

 

Serge

 

I would also question the need to have the topline have an "overhang" on the heel and toe portion behind the face. Would such a rectangular-shaped cavity even be possible to cut out? The closed-end of those cavities appear to have 90-degree corners.

[specialblend218]

So what do you guys think- if I wanted a softer more muted feel, what should i go for? Thinner? I'm definitely going ot head down to the store (got some irons to fit!) and I'm gonna check out some putters there for comparison, but I just wanted some ideas/theories.

 

Should be able to get some pics of the design up soon.

 

Thanks for the info about milling specialblend. My friend has some more experience (mech e major) so I was mostly relying on his experience. I've only done a little bit myself. If what you say about teh schematics is true, I could just send them teh solidworks file to use for any figures they need, right?

 

 

From my very little putter building experience it seems the heavier thicker putters seem to feel more solid. But it really has to do with the shape and weight which affect vibration.

 

As for the Solidworks file I would give them the file on CD and print the plans (3 view and isometric). Although as Serg mentioned that looks awfully tough to machine. As the machining gets complicated it gets really pricey due a more expesive machine (like and EDM machine to cut the pocket) needing to be used and/or custom fixtures to be made to hold the part such as Serg mentioned on the back. Just by eyeballing there will need to be something resting under the ring so they would need to mill a mount to create the part. Something as complicated as this design might be a much better route to see how much it would cost to get sand casted, since they can usually do a good price from 3D Cad file to an actually piece.