Southern Hills

tnord · August 25, 2014

I'm headed to Southern Hills for three days at the end of Sept for a little competition, and I've never been there, or even watched a tournament on TV that was played there. Looking for some input on what to expect, hints on course strategy, etc.

I'll follow up with my impressions after the trip - surprisingly I searched and didn't find much about this famous track on the site.

OK_Golf · August 26, 2014

Hey tnord,

I've been lucky enough to play Southern Hills three times (but only 1/3 as lucky on PD, played it last summer and loved it ... can't wait to get back some time).

I'm about 12-ish handicap, decent off the tee with poor short game, so filter these comments through that lens.

Firstly, the few times I have been there everyone has been very friendly and accommodating ... not too stuffy or self absorbed. This is limited interaction, but they have been friendly at least. Be sure you take some time to stroll the hallway between the men's locker room and the formal dinning room. Lot's of cool pictures and memorabilia from past major championships ... and the lunch buffet in the men's grill is great (if they have it open).

Now to the course:[list]
[*]Coming from slow-ish public course greens, I need plenty of time on the putting green, putting with lots of different breaks and uphill/downhill
[*]In general "above the hole" is bad, particularly missing the green long, but it's really bad on #4, #9 and #18
[*]If you can get a local caddy, consider it (maybe not if this is some sort of interclub??). One round out of three I had a fore-caddie and his green reading was spot on.
[*]#2 is one of the hardest holes for me ... keep it in the fairway, left is dead ... right is no good, but you can still make something happen from over there ... I think you have suck-it up and hit driver unless you are pretty long with your 3 wood.
[*]#3 favor the right side of the fairway to avoid being blocked out ... especially from left hole locations
[*]#4, need good distance control on your approach, missing the green long is dead
[*]#5 OB looms left, so if you fight a hook beware ... it's nearly impossible to mere mortals to reach, so don't worry about killing the ball
[*]#7 you can put it through the fairway, so consider a 3 wood (or something you know you can turn right to left) depending on how far you hit it and the tees you're playing
[*]#8 plays longer than the yardage
[*]#9 fairway is premium; so that you won't need to try to manipulate the ball on an approach shot that requires precise distance control. I have not figured out the formula here, but you need to club up for the up-hill approach, but you do NOT want to be long. I've putted it off this green before (note I'm a pretty weak putter though)
[*]#10 is not a driver hole; right is jail and the uphill approach requires about half a club
[*]#12 is significantly easier if you can fly the bunker in the dogleg and/or hit a draw with your driver around the dogleg ... but missing left likely forces a lay-up
[*]#13 I don't think there is any reason to go for this in two (unless you are really long) ... ponds front the green and trees on either side of the fairway knock balls down in to the water ... but you can lay up pretty close; pick any yardage you like from 100 yards up to about 60 yards (again the caddy helps here)
[*]#14 long hard par 3 your best mid to long iron here; left is OB or no stance due to the property fence
[*]#15; I can't figure this hole out, so if you do let me know. I've made double with three wood off the tee and driver, I've missed the fairway left and short or long and right. Missing the green long on a back hole location is DEAD!
[*]#16, consider going for this if you have a comfortable yardage, that's something like 225-ish for me. Water from #13 is in play short and left of the green, though
[*]#17, I've had more success with 3 wood off the tee than driver, stay left (on top of the left to right sloping fairway); right is dead ... narrow green front to back requires distance control ... in the fairway here is a birdie chance
[*]#18 ... just kill your tee ball, plain and simple ... my first 2 rounds I thought you had to keep it left in the fairway, but the last time I played I hit into a flat spot on the right side near where the fairway ends and a bridge crosses the hazard; best drive of my short So. Hills career ... the approach shot is very difficult. It's long and significantly uphill ... again I haven't cracked the code on how much club to hit to adjust for the uphill approach. Long is not good, but I think short is probably worse
[/list]

Hope you have fun ... oh yeah, this may not be an issue since you are a member of PD, but it took me 2.5 rounds to realize, "hey, this is just a golf course" ... I was pretty psyched-out the first two times I played.

tnord · August 26, 2014

thank you, that is helpful. it is an interclub deal and i'm not sure if we'll get a practice round or not before matches start so i'm going to have a little notebook with me if i can. i'll certainly be talking to guys from PD who have been there before as well on how to manage the course, but most of them play a "different" style of game then i do. i'll probably lean heavily on our head pro about how to play it, but looking to gather all the knowledge i can.

we'll be playing the blue tees if that changes anything. on #5, i see it's an awfully long hole that I likely won't be challenging, on par 5s here at PD when the wind is not in my favor and i know off the tee that i'm playing it as a 3 shot hole, i'll generally just hit a 2i off the tee to keep it in play. assuming i can hit the 2i about 240, is that a reasonable play or does that leave too challenging of a 2nd shot?

looking at some course maps and blog posts about the course, that's really probably my biggest challenge. with the doglegs and trees you have to clear, is what distance i need to hit each tee shot to stay out of trouble from the blue tees. generally....the way i play PD (since my driver currently can go left or right) is hit 2i off the tee on a lot of holes, because even though i may be just short of some others drives, i'm still hitting the same club or less than them into the green.

the green complexes i'm sure are tricky as all Maxwell greens seem to be, but that's not the part i'm worried about since our greens can be pretty severe in places.

OK_Golf · August 26, 2014

I've played from the whites when I've played. On #5 if you hit 2i 240 twice you're within 120 yards of a 600 yard hole. I'll tell you the first of the bunkers in the layup area on #5 is pretty far out, being outside 100 yards will keep all of those bunkers out of play.

I don't think I can help you with specific yardages, but my experience on some holes are as follows:

#3: seems short-ish, but I can hit a good driver ~260 and have no issue with being too long for the dog leg ... and if you lay back you have more chance of being blocked out

#7 I hit three wood in the 235 range from the white tees (the blues are not that far behind on #7, maybe 15 to 20 yards) ... hitting it much farther than this and you'll need to turn it over right to left

I think #9, and #10 are no-brainers for something less than driver ... especially if you are worried about how straight you are hitting your driver ... fairway is more important than length. I do hit driver on #9, because I'm fairly confident with it ... 20 yard 2 hybrid is my play from #10 white tee (but there is still quite a bit of room to hit if farther ... if you don't hit a hook)

#12, #15 and #16 maybe difficult for you to decide 2i vs driver, length helps plenty on these two holes, but being out of position on #12 and #15 can really ruin your score.

I don't know how anyone can hit something less than driver on #18 ... especially from the blue tees (unless your are tour pro long), but people who know your game and the course probably provide the best advice there.

Interested to hear about your experience. Best of luck.

tnord · September 25, 2014

bumping this back up in case anyone else has been there and can provide input. less than one week away from the event.

found out the format....first match best ball, second match is a modified alternate shot where you play your partners shot until after the first putt and you just hole out one ball. then singles. i found out my partner, who is a rather short hitter, probably about a 230 or 240 driver of the ball but dead straight last time i played with him. i'm not really too sure how to approach this, if i should pull driver most of the day and take an aggressive line, or to play conservative and leave him in a good position since i'll likely be playing mid-long irons into the greens most of the day.

[size=4]the short of it is suggestions on both a conservative and aggressive plays off the tee are welcome. [/size]

OK_Golf · September 26, 2014

Are you sure you are playing blue tees? When I have been there blues are the back tees (other than when they have a pro event) ... so it's ~7,000 yard par 71 from the blues ... I would NOT want to play those tees with a 230 yard driver.

Sorry no new info for you ... but anxious to hear how the course plays for a real "event" like this ... and what you think of SH compared to PD, which I LOVED on my one outing.

... I fallen into another chance to play SHCC due to a charity auction. I can't wait.

tnord · September 27, 2014

the guys playing off of scratch i think will be back at the tips, I'll be playing one up from there I believe. I think I heard it'll play ~6700/6800.

tnord · October 9, 2014

what a great golf course.

#1 is maybe the best opening tee shot in golf. they built a new tee that's probably 3 steps outside the pro shop, so I played from the old tips. holy cow can you bomb it out there....i ended up playing over the trees on the left and cutting the corner with a high fade. although one time i double crossed it and ended up LEFT of #9 fairway. made a pretty good bogey from there.

#2 is tough. i was having trouble turning over the driver last week so i played a 3w in my singles match. over did it though and was in the trees. depending on which club you can shape R-L the distance isn't that bad, i was still hitting 7/8i into the green.

#3 is another R-L 3w hole. cheat to the right side though for sure. well protected green, especially that middle right pin.

#4 you can kinda hit whatever you want just to get it to land on the downslope and chase down. another 3w hole in my mind. front pin is tough tucked between the two bunkers and the big back/front slope. if you have the skill the play would be to try and spin back a wedge.

#5 was another one that i hit driver on but probably didn't need to. bunker on the left is easily carried from the whites, and bunkers on the right are only ~280 out. i played a big high fade here and overdid it one time, starting it out pretty far left towards the driving range and faded it back to the left rough, southern hills member in my group laughed and said he'd never seen anybody try to play it that way - i told him he still hasn't. caught the last tree otherwise the green might have been reachable. really good golf hole i think, tiny green, protected layup area, well placed bunkers from tee to green, but very playable if you do it right.

#6 i never was, but lots of people in my group were long....and long is bad.

#7 another really good, tough golf hole. either layup with maybe a hybrid/3i and have something like a 7i in. or try to turn something R-L around the corner hard as the fairway slopes pretty severely to the right. i ripped a really good drawing 3w around the corner one time and it still bounced down to the very right side of the fairway where i was almost in trouble with the trees. still had a tough stance and 8i. after 4 rounds i'm still not sure what the best way to do this is.

#8 strong par 3. something like 210 i think we played it at? into a slight R-L breeze. i hit a 4i to the middle of the green and ignored the flag. tough part is there's a mound in the middle of the green that slopes away, so catch that with a long iron and no way you're stopping it. i ended up with a 50-60ft putt up the ridge then really quick back down the other side. play it at the flag and the green is really narrow and protected by bunkers. tough hole. i only hit the green once and walked away with par, bogey the other times.

#9 this should not have been that difficult for me but i struggled here. was fading the driver all week so aim down the left side and fade it over the bunker (~260 carry) was the play. over did it a couple times and ended up in the right trees (dead), hit some straight balls through the fairway on the left too (playable but long). behind the green is a tough place to play from on a back pin.

#10 good hole. i think the play is a nice easy low iron off the tee and let it chase down the hill. i hit a big 3i through the fairway into the rough once, and bunted a couple 2i to good spots. tough approach up the hill, into the wind, on an awkward stance

#11 not too difficult but left is bad. green has some pretty good slope to it.

#12 another good, strong golf hole i'm still not sure how to play. dogleg left with a bunker about 250 out. straight down the fairway though you run out of room at 280. you can play to the right of the bunker, but then you're looking at ~200yds to the green off a downslope. not exactly confidence inspiring. i thought i finally got it right in my singles match when i hit a bullet draw that just barely got over the trees i could see.....SH member said i just caught the top of the last one.

#13. reachable par 5. hit it at the bunker on the right and turn it over. needs to be up in the air though to carry the ravine, otherwise you'll get NO roll. if you get up on top of the hill you'll have something very reasonable into the green. somehow i always ended up catching the lip of the front bunker though. there's water, but it's ~30yds short of the green, so unless you really get it wrong it shouldn't be in play.

#14 another strong par 3 similar to #8. grab a long iron, shoot for the middle of the green, missing right will keep you below the hold.

#15 yet another hole that screwed with me. lots of R-L shots at this course, and this green is so severe you really want a short iron/wedge to get your distance right. i thought i did it in my last round, but again, hit a draw driver through the fairway on the right as that's where the fairway slopes to. awkward stance, tree trouble. thought i hit a perfect punch/fade PW from 105 but caught the lip of the front bunker. managed to save par though.

#16 basically the opposite of #13. hit it at the bunker on the left and fade it. again, carry the hill and you'll have ~200-220 in. water/bunker/tree protecting the left. so you go from hitting a fade off the tee to a draw so it's challenging, but it's reachable.

#17 a little like #10, in terms of hit what you want off the tee but you really need to cheat the left side. fairway runs out at ~280 i think and turns hard right. the right half of the fairway, when it's dry, can kick you into a creek even if you land in the fairway - bad news. the green can't be more than 10yds deep on the R&L so even though you could have 80-100yds into the green, it's no picnic.

#18 great great finishing hole. from the whites, again this was a 3w for me that you really need to place, not worry so much about distance....except make sure to be long enough to get past the corner. i hit a couple 3w draws up the right center that almost got through into the creek, but ended up in really good spots. also hit one too far left that had me with ~210yds on a downslope up a BIG hill - no bueno. from the bottom of the hill i had ~185 up that monster hill into the wind in our first match when we were all square. everybody else was in trouble with their second shot, and i'm standing there in the fairway on the 18th at a US Open/PGA Champ course, staring at a back pin and the MASSIVE clubhouse as the backdrop, realize that if I can pull this shot off we'll probably win, and kinda start laughing to myself "how cool is this?"

i sortof pulled it off, hit a solid draw starting out to right of the big bunker covering the front, and turning left towards the pin. i didn't get it up in the air enough though and it rolled off the back. so now i'm short sided with the same situation. my pitch lands on the fringe as intended, and rolls out another 15 ft leaving me about 5-6ft to win the hole and the match. buried it to win the match. that's the one i'll always remember.

for a course i've only played a couple times, i can still remember about every detail of every hole, but still don't quite know how to play them. THAT is how good this place is.

shanerbanner10 · April 22, 2015

Glad you enjoyed your time in T-town. Growing up I caddied and worked out there. I was lucky enough to play both the west 9 and the big course many times. Real tough course but is absolutely beautiful. If you hit a good one on the 1st tee I think it sets you up for a confident solid day. Awesome course, spend many summers walking it.