Irons for “Shotmakers”

[BCULAW]

I am an iron geek/junkie. Love all types, but predominantly played forged blades until a couple of years ago, when I undertook some serious swing changes chasing more distance and a more “athletic” swing. Since the change, I found myself gravitating towards player CBs and even some “tweener” sets. 
 

My game has been really bad of late. I was scoring in the seventies consistently before the swing overhaul. I played what I always called “small ball.”  I hit shots rather than make swings. Knock downs, shaping shots. Rarely made “full” swings with the irons. 
 

Last week, I played in absolutely HOWLING winds in Austin. On the third hole, I realized I needed to hit shots rather than make swings. I fell easily back into “small ball” and hit some really, really great shots. I “chipped” an 8 iron from 128 to six feet on my first “small ball” swing. I hit a 5 iron from 163 into the wind on a par three leaving 4 feet for birdie. Despite the tough conditions, I feel confident in saying I had more realistic birdie opportunities in that round than in recent recollection. It was a TON of fun!

 

I am likely to focus on small ball for a bit and it got me curious. Who are the other “shotmakers” on this site, and what irons are you using for the task. I know the traditional view is that “shotmakers” prefer blades, but Corey Pavin worked his way around the course with Cleveland VAS!!!

 

Are you shotmakers using blades or something else for the job?

[blades_are_life]

You should always play to hit shots rather than make swings!

[poor_putting]

I’m currently playing mizuno 241’s 6-P and 243 4-5. Would definitely go to 5 iron next time in 241’s as I prefer a thinner sole. 

 

Came from Miura 1957 “baby blades”. These were more easily workable but found my self putting a little more movement on the ball than I wanted to, especially draws.
 

Not sure if it was going to a stiffer feeling shaft or the head but I have an easier time hitting a low ball and fade as well. I went from x100’s, which felt so smooth to project X LS 6.5’s. 

[bnperrone]

I play in a lot of wind and really like to hit partial shots. I’m low 4s index and I absolutely love my PXG 0211ST set after 25-ish years in Mizunos. I also tried a bunch of things during Covid and none of the players tech stuff really stuck. 
 

I play them GW through 7. That’s a 165-170 carry club for me, so I figure I’m ready for some help when I’m north of 175. It seems like an odd blend but I’m really happy with a couple Wilson D9 forged long irons. 

[ProV1Killa]

5 hours ago, BCULAW said:

I am an iron geek/junkie. Love all types, but predominantly played forged blades until a couple of years ago, when I undertook some serious swing changes chasing more distance and a more “athletic” swing. Since the change, I found myself gravitating towards player CBs and even some “tweener” sets. 
 

My game has been really bad of late. I was scoring in the seventies consistently before the swing overhaul. I played what I always called “small ball.”  I hit shots rather than make swings. Knock downs, shaping shots. Rarely made “full” swings with the irons. 
 

Last week, I played in absolutely HOWLING winds in Austin. On the third hole, I realized I needed to hit shots rather than make swings. I fell easily back into “small ball” and hit some really, really great shots. I “chipped” an 8 iron from 128 to six feet on my first “small ball” swing. I hit a 5 iron from 163 into the wind on a par three leaving 4 feet for birdie. Despite the tough conditions, I feel confident in saying I had more realistic birdie opportunities in that round than in recent recollection. It was a TON of fun!

 

I am likely to focus on small ball for a bit and it got me curious. Who are the other “shotmakers” on this site, and what irons are you using for the task. I know the traditional view is that “shotmakers” prefer blades, but Corey Pavin worked his way around the course with Cleveland VAS!!!

 

Are you shotmakers using blades or something else for the job?

Sounds like we went on similar journeys.  I tried changing to the "modern swing", completely lost anything that resembled the ability to play golf, and then locked myself in a closet with several hours of Mike Malaska videos.  When I came out I promptly sold the T100 and ordered a combo set of Mizzy 241/245.  Nothing plays small ball like blades.  The 620CB/P7MC irons come close, but let's face it they're blades with cute little dents in the back.  I'm sure there will be a lot of input here, but, IMO if you're truly playing small ball any iron designed to help launch the ball is simply getting in your way.

[dmeeksDC]

The New Level 480MC strikes that balance. Not a blade but also not much of a cavity. A bit of a bevel on the leading edge, traditional lofts because it launches low, and mid to low bounce in a pure forged 1020 head. Short blade length, thin soles. It is undoubtedly a shotmaker’s iron, not for everyone, but it is precise. 

[BCULAW]

59 minutes ago, ProV1Killa said:

Sounds like we went on similar journeys.  I tried changing to the "modern swing", completely lost anything that resembled the ability to play golf, and then locked myself in a closet with several hours of Mike Malaska videos.  When I came out I promptly sold the T100 and ordered a combo set of Mizzy 241/245.  Nothing plays small ball like blades.  The 620CB/P7MC irons come close, but let's face it they're blades with cute little dents in the back.  I'm sure there will be a lot of input here, but, IMO if you're truly playing small ball any iron designed to help launch the ball is simply getting in your way.

I definitely feel this post. I played some decent golf with my “new” swing, and have never driven the ball better or longer, but iron play was always the strength of my game and it really suffered when I switched to a more rotational/shallow swing. 
 

I found myself going to bigger and bigger irons in hopes of getting more consistency in my iron play. Incidentally, when I first started playing golf, my iron play was terrible and no amount of forgiveness would help. It wasn’t until I STARTED playing small ball with blades that my iron game sharpened. It feels like I may do something similar now. 
 

I’m currently in 620CBs. They are great at “small ball” and I will probably stick with them for a bit, but there is something about working a true blade around the course that speaks to my soul. 

Edited May 6 by BCULAW

[ALIF]

I swing “small ball” with irons most of the time, but SEND the driver when it’s in my hands.

[hammergolf]

7 hours ago, BCULAW said:

I am an iron geek/junkie. Love all types, but predominantly played forged blades until a couple of years ago, when I undertook some serious swing changes chasing more distance and a more “athletic” swing. Since the change, I found myself gravitating towards player CBs and even some “tweener” sets. 
 

My game has been really bad of late. I was scoring in the seventies consistently before the swing overhaul. I played what I always called “small ball.”  I hit shots rather than make swings. Knock downs, shaping shots. Rarely made “full” swings with the irons. 
 

Last week, I played in absolutely HOWLING winds in Austin. On the third hole, I realized I needed to hit shots rather than make swings. I fell easily back into “small ball” and hit some really, really great shots. I “chipped” an 8 iron from 128 to six feet on my first “small ball” swing. I hit a 5 iron from 163 into the wind on a par three leaving 4 feet for birdie. Despite the tough conditions, I feel confident in saying I had more realistic birdie opportunities in that round than in recent recollection. It was a TON of fun!

 

I am likely to focus on small ball for a bit and it got me curious. Who are the other “shotmakers” on this site, and what irons are you using for the task. I know the traditional view is that “shotmakers” prefer blades, but Corey Pavin worked his way around the course with Cleveland VAS!!!

 

Are you shotmakers using blades or something else for the job?

Any club is workable with the correct face to path relation. The majority of Tour players use some form of CB irons so you should be fine with what you currently have in the bag. Unless of course you’re like the rest of us on here who just make up a reason to get new clubs…. Lol

[BCULAW]

2 minutes ago, hammergolf said:

Any club is workable with the correct face to path relation. The majority of Tour players use some form of CB irons so you should be fine with what you currently have in the bag. Unless of course you’re like the rest of us on here who just make up a reason to get new clubs…. Lol

Yeah. I definitely get that. In fact, I have played a few “small ball” rounds with GI irons like the old Cally X-14s and Ping G series and have really enjoyed them (though less so as of late with the jacked lofts, thin-face, and harsher feel). Just curious what other folks are playing with this style of play. I actually think something like the i230 might be a great option as I am not as precise as I once was. 

[Ivyguy]

This hit a heartstring. 
 

I miss my NONCORMING S59s.  I love these irons.  Can hit anything, durable and forging-ish.  
 

Newer version of that might be things like the Cally TCB, Titleist CB, and I think the 7mb from TM is a viable option. 
 

Workable irons come with a forgiveness trade off.  
 

Now I’m in J40 DPC.  They’re fine, and good for my game.  

[Gysse]

what exactly is  “small ball”  ?   Is it the old "british" ball

 

[NRJyzr]

9 hours ago, BCULAW said:

Yeah. I definitely get that. In fact, I have played a few “small ball” rounds with GI irons like the old Cally X-14s and Ping G series and have really enjoyed them (though less so as of late with the jacked lofts, thin-face, and harsher feel). Just curious what other folks are playing with this style of play. I actually think something like the i230 might be a great option as I am not as precise as I once was. 

 

It seems like the ability to move the ball around decreases as MOI increases.  "Seems" is the operative word, there's not much other than anecdotal evidence, or reviewer short comments (these just want to go straight).

 

Where that could be relevant, the i230 have a surprisingly high MOI, relative to their ancestors; it's in the range of the G25 and earlier G series.  Interestingly, the Tour folks seem to have skipped past them and jumped on Blueprint S. 🤔   i230 also have a pretty high CG, which may or may not be an issue depending on swing and course conditions.

 

Maybe those or Zx7 Mk II could be worth a look?  

 

That said, there's not much difference in forgiveness between either of those and that of blades such as Z Forged or Wilson's Staff Blades, much like the Nike Vr Pro.

 

Couple quick random thoughts before I start on my email backlog...

 

 

 

[BCULAW]

7 hours ago, Gysse said:

what exactly is  “small ball”  ?   Is it the old "british" ball

 

Ha ha!  No. It’s just a term I use to describe my game when I work my way around the course instead of pounding away and hitting every club it’s full distance. When I play this way, I tend to hit way more half and 3/4 shots, and rarely play to a full swing. So, I call it “small ball.”

[bodhi555]

Playing in the UK the courses I play are pretty narrow and tree lined compared to what you folks have in the US, with lots of gradients and ever present wind, so I have to play "small ball", and love nothing more than plotting my way round trying to keep out the cabbage. 

 

I've got a set of VR Pros and they're perfect for that sort of thing. I tend to favour a draw and I find that far more controlled than with any CB I've tried - they tend to get a bit hooky thanks to the offset and different weight balance. 

 

 

[blades_are_life]

14 hours ago, ProV1Killa said:

The 620CB/P7MC irons come close, but let's face it they're blades with cute little dents in the back.

this is correct, which is why we love them

[g_nw]

20 hours ago, BCULAW said:

Are you shotmakers using blades or something else for the job?

 

I love my P7MCs for exactly what you’re describing. They’re a shallow cavity back with tons of blade-like workability (and lofts) prioritized over forgiveness (but it’s there) relative to other irons in its category — and they’re slightly larger (blade length primarily) than their MB counterparts. I prefer the ‘20 version for its slightly lower launch and its finish. The turf interaction, from my perspective is great (thin sole really helps). And, I believe in their 2k ton forging process — they have a ton of “hit” and are insanely consistent while remaining stupid-soft. Can’t recommend enough, they’re built for what you’re describing.

Edited May 6 by g_nw

[JLP_GOLF]

are t100 irons not workable?  that has not been my experience.  i can make them do whatever i need them to based on the feels i need to call on for the shot at hand.  can work blades and p7mc easily as well but have never seen any difference in one being more workable than the other.  i dk maybe thats just me

[PNW]

2 hours ago, BCULAW said:

Ha ha!  No. It’s just a term I use to describe my game when I work my way around the course instead of pounding away and hitting every club it’s full distance. When I play this way, I tend to hit way more half and 3/4 shots, and rarely play to a full swing. So, I call it “small ball.”

Like baseball! Fun and creative way to score

 

My opinion... heads with higher VCOG are more fun to flight and they retain more spin vs something designed to launch higher. A few of my favorites with varying MOI forgiveness (choose your preference) are Wilson Staff Blades, JPX 923 Tour, i230. The Staff Blades and JPX Tours are very similar in terms for forgiveness just with different feel, Wilson being more dense and JPX Tour being typical Mizuno soft. 

[NRJyzr]

27 minutes ago, JLP_GOLF said:

are t100 irons not workable?  that has not been my experience.  i can make them do whatever i need them to based on the feels i need to call on for the shot at hand.  can work blades and p7mc easily as well but have never seen any difference in one being more workable than the other.  i dk maybe thats just me

 

It's not a binary question of "yes/no," but a question of the effort involved.  You can make a G400 Max move laterally if you make the effort, but everyone talks about how straight they want to go.  If it wants to fly straight on its own, that suggests it's harder to make it move laterally.  <shrug>

 

After playing blades for 10 years, then Pings for a year, and switching back, I found the CBs I'd used flew straighter, both intentionally and not so intentionally.  

 

Which is where my supposition, "workability is inversely related to MOI" comes from.

 

Edited May 6 by NRJyzr

[g_nw]

19 hours ago, ProV1Killa said:

Nothing plays small ball like blades.  The 620CB/P7MC irons come close, but let's face it they're blades with cute little dents in the back.

 

4 hours ago, blades_are_life said:

this is correct, which is why we love them

 

LMAO cute little dents in the back, missed that… 🤣🥃 agree, and love them!

[g_nw]

7 hours ago, NRJyzr said:

That said, there's not much difference in forgiveness between either of those and that of blades such as Z Forged or Wilson's Staff Blades, much like the Nike Vr Pro.

 

Fwiw, TEJ posted a great video on the Srixon lineup this week and my takeaway was that the Z Forged II is very friendly! There’s no question, I’d want to at least try them if I were getting a new set of irons right now.

 

 

 

[jda]

IMO, you need to be able to do both.  Just swings and just shots will short side you sometimes.  You need to be able to take a shot with a 5i from 200-210 just as much as a swing from 163.  Do what the situation dictates.  Blades will always be better for shots, but you don't always need a blade.  If you can hit the center, then there is no downside to blades loft for loft - don't fall into the speed stupidity where a PW is now 40 degrees in a new club where it is a 8i in a blade, etc.

 

Went ap2/t100 for a while and put older Titleist 660s back in the bag.  The t100 did NOTHING better than the 660s save for a toey strike... nothing.  Been gaming the 660s again and love them.  Ironically, the 660s with a 48 degree PW go at least as far (if not further) than the t100 with a 46 degree PW.  On chippy or partial shots, the 660s put as much spin on the ball as a full swing and the t100 did not do this.

 

To me, Pavin was just a short hitter.  He did not choose this as a way to hit balls closer when he had the ability to mash the ball.  I was quite young when he was winning, so I could be misremembering.

[jrdubbb]

If you want a set of blades, the Takomo 301MB's will fit the bill and not break the bank. I love having something that can shape the ball like my old Mizuno MP-14's, but the worn leading edge helps when I go after a full shot and get steep. I don't see any better value for the type of club you're after. The 301CB could also be a look if you like those cute little dents in the back!

[robbie91]

I've gone through almost the same experience. Played somewhat high level scratch golf into my early 20's hitting a majority of hold off and 3/4 iron shots. Made a swing change and about five years back and really focused on hitting full iron shots. I ended up buying a set of Ping I210s to match this preference and got along well with the clubs -- high and straight. That said, I did miss the ability to cut through the turf and work the ball. Granted, I think this issue was largely shaft dependent and less about the unicorn I210s. This year I switched into the Blueprint S with a more traditional shaft profile and have been astonished by the results -- super easy to knock down and work but still plenty forgiving enough for a full out swing.  

[wam78]

8 hours ago, PNW said:

Like baseball! Fun and creative way to score

 

My opinion... heads with higher VCOG are more fun to flight and they retain more spin vs something designed to launch higher. A few of my favorites with varying MOI forgiveness (choose your preference) are Wilson Staff Blades, JPX 923 Tour, i230. The Staff Blades and JPX Tours are very similar in terms for forgiveness just with different feel, Wilson being more dense and JPX Tour being typical Mizuno soft. 

I was coming to say the same.  Wilson Staff blades and jpx tours.  Both of which are more “forgiving” than they should be.  When I say forgiving, I mean ball speed on both are surprising.