Loft vs Material

DrBrown54 · February 1, 2016

I need some education on iron heads. I had a fitting done on a flight scope. My 7 iron swing was averaging 79mph. I hit 3 different clubs to compare: Callaway Apex, AP2 and jpx-850. The AP2 was hands down the better iron in my eyes. I could work the ball wherever I wanted and off center hits felt solid. The only let down was the distance just wasn't there. The Callaway was the longest, I'm guessing because it's cast material? I carried it ~168, the 850s went ~163, and the AP2s carried ~155. All of them had S300 shafts and were 2* flat, if it matters.

1) Will cast material usually carry farther?

2) The AP2s have 2* weaker loft than the 850s, is that the cause for ~8yds more with the 850?

3) Are there any shafts that could result in more distance that offer the same flex as the DG300?

4) Are there any other irons that are as nice off the face as AP2s with similar swing weight?

I'd look up all this myself but I wouldn't know where to find specs on swing weights and such. Thanks in advance if you read this far!

Golfrnut · February 1, 2016

No, the material itself isn't going to matter.

1. In order to try and pinpoint why, would have to know launch, spin, ball speed, spin loft, etc. There are plenty of reasons why one iron could produce better results, launch conditions, iron lofts, etc...the list goes on.

2. Depending on launch conditions and ball speed...absolutely. There again, would help to know launch conditions to know whether you are hitting the ball in the right window.

3. There are plenty of options...will any of them produce more distance for you would be nothing more than a guess. There are plenty of shaft properties than can have a better or worse impact.

4. Feel is completely subjective. My "nice" may very well not be your "nice".

DrBrown54 · February 1, 2016

I understand it's hard to generalize. As for my numbers, I think my launch angle with the 7i were all 24-27*. He said I was hitting them a tiny bit high, but pretty close to the right window. RPMs on solid strikes were all 7100-7300. I remember my SF was pretty good with ball speeds from 105-108mph. He said I was efficient for my swing speed with the 7i (76-80mph). I don't remember seeing any angle of decent or face to path type numbers so I can't comment on that.

What I really meant about FEEL was off the face, not so much balance. For example, the XR Pro irons felt like I was hitting a brick. My longest with the XR Pro carried 181, which beats the crap out of 155 with the AP2. BUT the Callaway felt too harsh off the face and I couldn't work the ball. The mizuno was kinda in between all around but it didn't feel balanced to me with the S300 (maybe I could try a different shaft). Anyway, those are the stats I remember if it helps.

Golfrnut · February 1, 2016

No, I was mainly talking launch, spin, and balls speed. Agree with what he probably told you, launch is high, but he also may/not be an instructor so going down that road might be a terrible idea, and not his area of expertise.

And although it may seem small, but 3 miles an hour of ball speed with a little lower launch angle and a bit less spin can easily account for a 5-8 yard distance difference. That's really all it takes, it's not drastic at all. At the same time, you are trying irons that are built a little differently in terms of how they try to generate ball speed using thinner face designs, etc. With that, there are also feel differences that can be associated to those differences as well. So yes, what you are saying seems perfectly normal for the results you have.

DaveMac · February 2, 2016

Just to add the difference in distance naturally is a combination of ball speed, launch angle and spin. The weaker lofted AP 2 is at a dissavantage in comparison to the Apex especially since you launch and spin the ball a little higher than idea. If the test was not conducted with the same shaft, the heavier DG may have cost you some club head speed and ball speed with the AP 2, so it would be worthwhile testing like for like.

The new breed of 'hotter face' irons tend to have a crisper, brighter impact feel, finding the right balance, can be difficult. Ironically some of the non forged models can offer a better impact feel than the Apex for example simply because of additional vibration dampening. It might be worthwhile extending your search to take in a few other models to see if you can find a combination of distance and feel you are happy with, models as diverse as the Titleist AP1, Taylormade PSi Ping I and Srixon Z355 / Z545 come to mind.

EDIT. Just back from a fitting session today, testing Z355 / Z545 and Apex CF 16. Didn't like the feel of the Z355, with my strikes the Apex felt perhaps a touch better than the Z545's. the Z545's delivered better consistency, they feel reasonably soft when you hit the sweet spot a little bright and clicky off centre. The Z545's are definely high ball speed, I picked up about 5 mph with the 6 iron compared to my Yonex Steelfiber's, lofts were the same, swing speed the same, just better smash, suggests construction does have an effect.

DrBrown54 · February 6, 2016

On the CF16 note, I did not try those because I looked at the price tag and laughed as I walked away. The problem these days is there's way too many options and the shop is all too eager to take my charge card.

I'm currently playing my 2003 model Maxfli A10s, so I think virtually anything made this decade would be an improvement heh. But in real world I fly my 7i about 157 with an S300 that's tipped about an inch. Which is why the AP2 only carrying 150-155 was a let down. I found the AP2 has the same weaker lofts as my current irons so I guess it's about right. I need to take my own 7i and hit it against the others. I know if I toe slap my A10 irons I lose 10-13 yards usually. I didn't seem to loose that much with the AP2s, maybe 5 yds. I'm still torn and really need more time in the range/monitor to figure it out.