Scotty Cameron to Ping

[Caligula]

If I was Ping I'd make posh milled versions of the original designs and with nice head covers and various attractive stampings available in all popular weights and lengths and materials. Where they could score is by making what people want available to them at reasonable cost.

[cbae]

Isn't it interesting when someone, like Scotty Cameron, has been as successful at doing what they do for such a long time eventually become a target for the jealousy and envy of others. I think those who choose to bash Scotty probably cant afford his product(s). I also think that those who do not appreciate the craftsmanship and feel of Scotty's putters probably haven't even touched one of his putters outside of GolfGalaxy. Golfsmith, InsertYourFavoriteLargeGolfRetailerHere.

 

 

My $.02

 

Not bashing. Just pointing out that actual sales of Camerons aren't nearly what most people assume it to be. Just like any other company that sells putters, Titleist has hits and it has duds. Slapping the name "Scotty Cameron" on a putter doesn't guarantee success at the register.

[sergizmo]

If I was Ping I'd make posh milled versions of the original designs and with nice head covers and various attractive stampings available in all popular weights and lengths and materials. Where they could score is by making what people want available to them at reasonable cost.

 

The Redwood series is a good step in this direction. Over time they will hopefully expand the line to include more models and the options listed above. These are Ping's original designs, they should be still be making money off of them.

 

As for price they can leave them as they are. CNC milling stainless is not cheap, and if people want quality they should pay for it.

[RobotDoctor]

Yes, Scotty Cameron used the Anser as a platform and made some design changes. Yes, Scotty Cameron took a TP Mills design and made some design changes. In both cases, he has evolved the original designs and added his spin to them. He has worked for other manufacturers like Mizuno, Ray Cook and Cleveland and added original designs like the Blue Goose and the MX1. People can regurgitate the same old case that he stole someone's designs. However, if people want to go down this road then apply the same vitriol to every company that has taken Karsten's Anser or a TP Mills design and made it that company's own.

 

Ping may call Cameron "Scotty Xerox" but I find it hilarious that Ping now has introduced the Redwood series. Maybe Ping is now copying Scotty Cameron since Scotty has been making a milled Anser styled putter for 15 years or more.

[Skippy11]

I have always been a ping guy, I have a Zing I got in 85 and have been through a few others..( will always play ping irons) Recently the Camerons have been in the bag for a a simple reason.. Weight.. The Scotty's are heavier and that is what I need right now. I just replaced a ping Anser TI2 with a Newport for that reason.

 

Yes I was a Scotty hater , but I do love the feel I have with the couple I have now.

 

 

Rick

[sergizmo]

Ping may call Cameron "Scotty Xerox" but I find it hilarious that Ping now has introduced the Redwood series. Maybe Ping is now copying Scotty Cameron since Scotty has been making a milled Anser styled putter for 15 years or more.

 

Uhhhhhhh, no. I hope this was a joke. A company milling a putter that they designed isn't copying anything. I'm sure Cameron wasn't the first person to mill a putter, either.

[bladerunner]

I have always been a ping guy, I have a Zing I got in 85 and have been through a few others..( will always play ping irons) Recently the Camerons have been in the bag for a a simple reason.. Weight.. The Scotty's are heavier and that is what I need right now. I just replaced a ping Anser TI2 with a Newport for that reason.

 

Yes I was a Scotty hater , but I do love the feel I have with the couple I have now.

 

 

Rick

 

The Scotty´s are in general 330 g while the Ping Redwood´s are between 340-355 g depending on the model, so there are heavier models of traditional models aswell!

[zzy]

It's getting pretty absurd, now that Scotty has even copied the B60, right down to the 'B' shape on the sole. He pretty much takes what works and stamps his name on it. He doesn't even try to make the design original (e.g. the shoulders on an Anser vs. a Newport are identical). Then again, he's probably making a fortune doing it so I can't really blame him. Can't blame Ping for wanting a cut of the high-price market, either. Truth is, the both putt the same and difference in all in your head (I own several of both). If anything, I'd say Pings are better if customized properly.

[oilcan_007]

I agree with the guys that say Scotty does not need PING and PING definetly does not need scotty. PING has their own staff of guys that make putters just for tour players, and they make some cool stuff. I was fortunate enough to see this department on a visit to the plant.

[Swingtheclub]

How could anyone state that Cameron does not need Ping without them to copy what would he do.

 

It does not say much for the golf public. but he basically took Pings designs made them with his name on them putt a cover on them and raised the price.

 

The idiots bought.

[grooveman]

CameronTitliestFortune500 is what is because the best golfer in the world uses "The Brand" putter. Your gut feeling say's, hmmm...if Tiger uses a Cameron, then it must be "the best." Marketing. Branding. Advertising. Design. Call it whatever you like. The machine deserves credit. All are doing a great job building the brand. Welcome to the machine!

 

I leave you with three questions from my golf closet...

 

1. Does anyone want to use my George Low Sportsman Wizard 600?

2. What if Tiger won his next 10 majors with a "Designed By Nike" putter?

3. What will you give me for my Titleist 975D driver with a stock DG-X100 shaft?

 

Time for my Starbucks...gotta' go.

[Konrad]

___*, Scotty Cameron is going to work for Ping.

___*, Tiger's irons aren't Nikes.

___*. Tour is better than retail.

___*, one golf website is better than the other.

___*, Steve Williams is going to retire.

 

Okay? Now we don't need to post topics like this.

 

 

*fill in whatever answer your heart desires.

[snkstaff]

Scotty is who Scotty is. To each his own opinion. I still think the best feeling milled putter I ever had was a T.P. Mills softtail. But back to topic, Scotty could go it on his own if he wanted but Titleist will never ever let him go!

[sapguy]

Interesting thread, although I think that many of the posters seem to have problems staying on topics ;) If we would simply stop the Scotty bashing and the subsequent "counterattack" Scotty LoveFest, then we would have to read a lot less to get to the heart of the matter.

 

That said, if Scotty would ever leave Titleist, he would be on his own rather than joining up with anyone else - that's just my opinion.

 

I am a Cameron player, but I have always loved Ping putters, and I will be picking up a Redwood shortly. I may or may not game with it, but a Ping putter deserves a place in my collection.

[sapguy]

Scotty is who Scotty is. To each his own opinion. I still think the best feeling milled putter I ever had was a T.P. Mills softtail. But back to topic, Scotty could go it on his own if he wanted but Titleist will never ever let him go!

 

"never" is a very strong word :)

 

Titleist runs a business. When the time comes when it does not make sense for Titleist to have Scotty as part of the family any longer, they will bid adieu to each other ;)

[XYB34A]

Ping putters from the 60's,70's,80's etc. are cast. Scotty Cameron's are taken from a piece of steel. Granted different types of steel. And are put on a machine and milled. Or the excess steel is cut away, just like a statue in a museum. Mag-Bronze, Becu, stainless steel models of ping are poured into a mold and heated and then cooled. Then the excess rough edges are removed and polished. Old pings were lighter than Scotty Cameron's. Times have changed. The school of thought many years ago, was a light putter for fast greens. Anyone born after 1980 on this site really doesn't have a concept of how much golf has changed in the last 17 years. I would venture to say anyone born after 1975 doesn't have a clue. If you were a course rat, meaning your mother and father dropped you off to basically get you babysat. And that is for the private club player type. In the 80's or even maybe early 90's, a 12 year old kid wasn't dropped off at a semi-private or muni. Getting back to the subject. Does anyone remember Pings that had hot spots. You could hit a ping 9 iron an average of 130 yards. And all of the sudden right in the middle of the fairway, you would hit it 165. The putter's were the same. Every once in a while. It would just go off in your hand. And u can say nerves, or whatever. They just did. Golf Digest, Golf Illustrated, Golf Magazine all did articles on them in the 80's. I had a subscription to them all for years. I finally did a paper drive thing for my daughter when she was in high school in the mid 90's and it took a pick up truck to haul them out of the basement. I loved the ping zing. It putted the same stroke as an 8802. Cameron's are a good putter. I have an original Tei3 Newport, that I have owned since 1998. It has never been refinished. It still putts great. The bluing is fading on it. Like an old Winchester Model 12, or Remington 1100. So basically after this ramble. Its the old comparing apples to oranges thing. They may look the same, but they are not the same. Due to materials they are made with, and the process used to do so. So I like them both.

[big_joe]

Off the top of my head, I can name several original designs, Detour 1, Detour 2, Newport Detour, Futura, Futura Phantom, Circa 62 #5, Studio MB #5...

 

 

 

I have to say that the man is a marketing genius. And if Titleist dumped him I doubt he would go out on his own. I dont think he has the resources to biuld his own plant etc... Just my opinion.

[JKB]

Hmmm..

Next there will be a topic about Tiger going to Ping or something stupid like that

Ping is fine... why change ?

Scotty signed a contract too

[scs1070]

Ping putters from the 60's,70's,80's etc. are cast. Scotty Cameron's are taken from a piece of steel. Granted different types of steel. And are put on a machine and milled. Or the excess steel is cut away, just like a statue in a museum. Mag-Bronze, Becu, stainless steel models of ping are poured into a mold and heated and then cooled. Then the excess rough edges are removed and polished. Old pings were lighter than Scotty Cameron's. Times have changed. The school of thought many years ago, was a light putter for fast greens. Anyone born after 1980 on this site really doesn't have a concept of how much golf has changed in the last 17 years. I would venture to say anyone born after 1975 doesn't have a clue. If you were a course rat, meaning your mother and father dropped you off to basically get you babysat. And that is for the private club player type. In the 80's or even maybe early 90's, a 12 year old kid wasn't dropped off at a semi-private or muni. Getting back to the subject. Does anyone remember Pings that had hot spots. You could hit a ping 9 iron an average of 130 yards. And all of the sudden right in the middle of the fairway, you would hit it 165. The putter's were the same. Every once in a while. It would just go off in your hand. And u can say nerves, or whatever. They just did. Golf Digest, Golf Illustrated, Golf Magazine all did articles on them in the 80's. I had a subscription to them all for years. I finally did a paper drive thing for my daughter when she was in high school in the mid 90's and it took a pick up truck to haul them out of the basement. I loved the ping zing. It putted the same stroke as an 8802. Cameron's are a good putter. I have an original Tei3 Newport, that I have owned since 1998. It has never been refinished. It still putts great. The bluing is fading on it. Like an old Winchester Model 12, or Remington 1100. So basically after this ramble. Its the old comparing apples to oranges thing. They may look the same, but they are not the same. Due to materials they are made with, and the process used to do so. So I like them both.

 

I may be wrong, but the best player in the world is playing a cast putter. If it is good enough for him!!!!!

[gompers]

Firstly, I think that putters are such a personal thing that there is no "right" or "wrong". There's only what's right for you.

 

Scotty makes great putters. I'm a pretty high capper, but even I can tell when picking one up that it's a Mercedes compared to most putters. There is little to no question that the vast majority of his most successful putters are not original designs. He just puts that "premium" feel to them. If that inspires more confidence in you, great. I still believe that it's more the craftsman and not the tool.

 

All that being said, there is nothing that Scotty does that Ping can't do. They invented most of his successful designs. He doesn't do anything substantial to his putters that Ping couldn't do if they chose (and with the redwood series, they are starting to realize that I think). I see no reason for Ping to want Scotty. Neither one "needs" the other at this point. The fact that Scotty has made a nice living off of slight refinements of their designs just highlights a marketing failure on Ping's behalf.

 

I'm not a Scotty hater. His putters certainly aren't just cheap Ping knock-offs. There's a good reason his putters are so well-regarded. There's simply no reason that Ping shouldn't be right there next to him and Titleist, and that's why I can't see them hiring him.

[RobotDoctor]

I may be wrong, but the best player in the world is playing a cast putter. If it is good enough for him!!!!!

 

From the sources I have, and one of them owns an authentic Tiger Woods backup putter, Tiger's putter is milled and not cast.

[dfung]

Ping putters from the 60's,70's,80's etc. are cast.

 

Actually, most of them are cast now too (except for Redwood, Craz-e One, and DOC)

 

Scotty Cameron's are taken from a piece of steel. Granted different types of steel. And are put on a machine and milled. Or the excess steel is cut away, just like a statue in a museum.

 

Actually, when you see a statue in a museum it will almost certainly be cast from bronze using exactly the same process (lost-wax investment) as Ping uses to make stainless heads. The artist scupts something in clay or wood, they make a negative mold from that in plaster, then a positive duplicate in wax. Then you pack the wax form in casting sand, and pour molten bronze in. When it's cool, you wash away the sand and finish the piece. If it's a statue, you end up welding all the pieces together; if it's a clubhead you're done!

[trek1500]

God I hope not...his putters are in a league of their own...

 

Titleist & him are a great fit!

[geogolf]

I may be wrong, but the best player in the world is playing a cast putter. If it is good enough for him!!!!!

 

From the sources I have, and one of them owns an authentic Tiger Woods backup putter, Tiger's putter is milled and not cast.

 

Know the backups and limited runs are. But as far as what he plays.. from some folks I have known quite a while..... I'd say it's a 50/50 (if not better chance) it's cast.

[hondja7713]

Ping putters from the 60's,70's,80's etc. are cast.

 

Actually, most of them are cast now too (except for Redwood, Craz-e One, and DOC)

 

Scotty Cameron's are taken from a piece of steel. Granted different types of steel. And are put on a machine and milled. Or the excess steel is cut away, just like a statue in a museum.

 

Actually, when you see a statue in a museum it will almost certainly be cast from bronze using exactly the same process (lost-wax investment) as Ping uses to make stainless heads. The artist scupts something in clay or wood, they make a negative mold from that in plaster, then a positive duplicate in wax. Then you pack the wax form in casting sand, and pour molten bronze in. When it's cool, you wash away the sand and finish the piece. If it's a statue, you end up welding all the pieces together; if it's a clubhead you're done!

 

I think justaman5's post is referring to marble / stone statues not bronze or metal ones.

If you want to see a cool animation of this process, check out how the new X5 is made on the Titleist website. I think justaman5 is right about the "hotspots" on cast clubs. I've also had that problem on "Beached" slotted putters and with insert putters, even Camerons. The XG Odyssey putters are an improvement than the older ones, and Teryllium putters had hotspots too (I think its due to the elastomer). I'm dying to try the new Teryllium 10 putters, the insert looks extra thick and the finish is amazing (but a bit too shiny).

 

Ah you guys need to relax. There's no need to ask "whats so special about a Cameron", just say, "Hey I tried many Camerons, and they dont work for me. Not worth the price in my opinion". Why is that so difficult. "whats so special about a Cameron" is a loaded question that pisses off the Cameron Crazies out there who just love Camerons.

 

Even this topic, stating that Scotty might go to Ping is nuts. Great entertainment though! LOL. God I love this place.

[homerthedog]

Scotty is who Scotty is. To each his own opinion. I still think the best feeling milled putter I ever had was a T.P. Mills softtail. But back to topic, Scotty could go it on his own if he wanted but Titleist will never ever let him go!

 

"never" is a very strong word :beee:

 

Titleist runs a business. When the time comes when it does not make sense for Titleist to have Scotty as part of the family any longer, they will bid adieu to each other ;)

 

I agree. They let Tiger go and he is worth a heck of a lot more than Scotty is.

[aj8346]

I've just read this entire post! Loved it from start to finish.... I'm new to this site and am a junkie already.. I will probably lose my job with all these great treads.... But this one was just pure fun reading...

 

1. No way Scotty goes to Ping - but great topic

2. I like SC and Ping - Have a redwood anser myself and love it - actually have a SC baby T grip on it (i guess I flipped the way Tiger has his - SC with a Ping grip)

3. I think what drives the sales of the SC or the popularity of them is that feeling of having something that is rare - tour played and so on... What i'm getting a kick out of lately is the custom Pings i'm seeing and how everyone going crazy to find some of these.. I think Ping has figured SC's marketing system... Lord knows i'm already thinking about getting mine redone or one of those black stain finished ones...

[SwingMan]

Y'all forgot one thing -- Ping would never have Scotty join them.

 

I would seriously doubt if the "Welcome" mat would be out. Karsten would come out of his grave if his son hired Cameron.

 

lol.