Hogan Precisions...To Rechrome Or Not To Recrome - That is the question

[northplatteriver]

I have been excited about a new purchase I have recently made, a set of 1957 Ben Hogan Precisions 2-E. Originally I had thought I would have them rechromed, but when I received them they actually appear to be in decent condition with just a few spots where the chrome has chipped on a leading edge or some some flaking of the chrome on the back of the head. Shafts are decent, but in about the same shape with a bit of flaking of the chrome, but very playable and solid. I started wondering if I had them rechromed, would they be more collectible or less collectible. I am also curious on thoughts about reshafting. I would really like to replace the shaft for a couple of reasons, the first is to get them to a more modern length, and the second is for performance. The plan at this point is to just chill for a bit and play them as is and let the initial adrenaline rush subside so I can be more objective on if I want to really spend the money on getting them heads redone and if I did get them redone have I basically destroyed them from a collectibility perspective. I just really want to play them. I already adore them. I see beautiful pictures on this site and others on the internet of these clubs after being refinished and my jaw literally drops. It is hard to believe that they would be worth less after having a proper refinishing job done. Actually I just wanted to post another picture of them, but I would also really like to hear from those that have been in similar situations or what a true collector is looking for.

[HoganApexBlades]

I have been excited about a new purchase I have recently made, a set of 1957 Ben Hogan Precisions 2-E. Originally I had thought I would have them rechromed, but when I received them they actually appear to be in decent condition with just a few spots where the chrome has chipped on a leading edge or some some flaking of the chrome on the back of the head. Shafts are decent, but in about the same shape with a bit of flaking of the chrome, but very playable and solid. I started wondering if I had them rechromed, would they be more collectible or less collectible. I am also curious on thoughts about reshafting. I would really like to replace the shaft for a couple of reasons, the first is to get them to a more modern length, and the second is for performance. The plan at this point is to just chill for a bit and play them as is and let the initial adrenaline rush subside so I can be more objective on if I want to really spend the money on getting them heads redone and if I did get them redone have I basically destroyed them from a collectibility perspective. I just really want to play them. I already adore them. I see beautiful pictures on this site and others on the internet of these clubs after being refinished and my jaw literally drops. It is hard to believe that they would be worth less after having a proper refinishing job done. Actually I just wanted to post another picture of them, but I would also really like to hear from those that have been in similar situations or what a true collector is looking for.

 

North,

 

I also acquired a set (2-9) of 1957 Precisions with 3" hosels, triple rings, TT Rocket shafts and OEM leather grips. The condition is probably an 8/10. I have seen the refinished heads also and have drooled over their beauty. However, knowing that my clubs are still in very good condition and are ORIGINAL, I have no reason to spend the money getting them refinished. Remember, they are only original ONCE. As soon as they get rechromed, their originality is gone along with the PATINA. Unless your plan is to display them prominently and never use them, why would you spend all that money just to show them off???

[baloo]

I would leave them original.

[Nessism]

The value of those clubs isn't overly high and I doubt they ever will be to the point where you need to fret about originality.

 

If you love the pristine look of restored clubs then go for that. Or just play them as is. Go with your heart.

[northplatteriver]

The value of those clubs isn't overly high and I doubt they ever will be to the point where you need to fret about originality.

 

If you love the pristine look of restored clubs then go for that. Or just play them as is. Go with your heart.

I guess they can always be re-chromed and when I do I am thinking about having it done by a local guy here Omaha that does a bunch of work for local hickory players. I have a couple wedges I will have him do to see how good they look first, but that is later down the road. For now I will play them in their original state with the exception of reshafting. Not sure how much a difference it will make, but it sounds like they will feel and perform even better. Went out this morning and almost slipped a disk trying to get more than 130 out of the 7 iron, but the 5 was just about the same as normal. Looks like the Precisions were lofted quite a bit weaker than my 91 Apex's from 6 iron up, 5 on down are roughly the same.

 

91 Apexs are...

2i - 19.5

3i - 23

4i - 26.5

5i - 30

6i - 33.5

7i - 37

8i - 41

9i - 45

E - 49

 

1958 Sunburts are

3 22

4 26.5

5 31

6 36

7 40

8 45

9 49

E 53

[dukeman]

I have a set of these. I want to play them, but I can't even make myself replace the leather grips.

[northplatteriver]

I have a set of these. I want to play them, but I can't even make myself replace the leather grips.

Just put on something sticky like grip tape for tennis rackets, and get them out there. Trust me, you will love it. Just recieved my matching 1957 Equalizer in the mail today and have already had it on the range. I thought I liked the 9 iron best until I hit this. Would be like leaving the Maserati up on blocks in the garage. Get those babies out in the sunshine!

[HoldenCornfield]

The value of those clubs isn't overly high and I doubt they ever will be to the point where you need to fret about originality.

 

If you love the pristine look of restored clubs then go for that. Or just play them as is. Go with your heart.

 

This.

[raggal62]

You may also consider as an experiment just extending one of the shafts a bit and testing for performance.

[fluffy265]

I buy my share of collectable clubs, but I purposely try not to buy anything so that's pristine that I might question ever playing them.

I'd rather see clubs like this being played and looked after, If you want to make money off these down the track, leave them as is.

However if you are a playing them, do what whatever you need to do to make them playable.

Those TT Rocket shafts are absolute magic in my opinion, so personally I hope you pull them and send them to me !

Honestly now, extend them to length, put your grips on them and you will have a nice set of Hogan sledge hammers ( I mean that as a compliment!).

 

J

[BIG STU]

I have always been of the thought of leave them like they are and play them. Rust and patina are signs of battle to me. And as I have said before modern shafts are the way to go if you can not hit the original ones. I had a set of 59 Mac FCs that I did a trade deal on. They were beautiful and had been rechromed and I hesitated to hit them for a year. But in the rechrome process they lost the ceramic faces so no collector value there. I ended up getting a wild hair so to speak and played them. Liked them but my running partner Bear liked them so I gave them to him. I will confess I do have 2 virgin clubs in my collection that have never hit a ball period. One is the Penna driver I posted a while back and a Ginty 7 wood. The Penna is a no brainer since I have a bunch of Penna drivers and actually have one just like it that I do hit. The Ginty well I do not get along with them that well but this one looked nice so I got it.

[dpark]

Keep them original. And play them :)

[northplatteriver]

Keep them original. And play them :)

Played 42 holes with them yesterday as they are. Loved them. No plans to do anything with them other than play them as is. Thought the shorter shafts would make a difference, but just takes a bit of getting used to it. Have to take into account the differences in the strength of the lofts, but they were right on numbers when this is taken into account.

[northplatteriver]

Keep them original. And play them :)

Played 42 holes with them yesterday as they are. Loved them. No plans to do anything with them other than play them as is. Thought the shorter shafts would make a difference, but just takes a bit of getting used to it. Have to take into account the differences in the strength of the lofts, but they were right on numbers when this is taken into account.

Only thing now is to find a decent "Exploder" for the this set. I have a "Forty-Seven" Hogan sand iron that kind of fits with the set, but if the Precision Exploder is as good as the Precision Equalizer I definitely want one. I guess the hunt never truly ends with vintage clubs, there is always another Unicorn to chase!

[birly-shirly]

Nice. Sweet to hear how these have worked out for you. Good luck with the search for a matching Exploder.

[augustgolf]

Keep them original. And play them :)

Played 42 holes with them yesterday as they are. Loved them. No plans to do anything with them other than play them as is. Thought the shorter shafts would make a difference, but just takes a bit of getting used to it. Have to take into account the differences in the strength of the lofts, but they were right on numbers when this is taken into account.

Only thing now is to find a decent "Exploder" for the this set. I have a "Forty-Seven" Hogan sand iron that kind of fits with the set, but if the Precision Exploder is as good as the Precision Equalizer I definitely want one. I guess the hunt never truly ends with vintage clubs, there is always another Unicorn to chase!

 

If you like the forty-seven, that is cool. It isn't nearly from the same vintage time wise, but is otherwise a very solid club that was only produced for a short period of time. Can't hardly find any of them out there.

 

If you ever feel the need to find it a home where it will be respected and played and cared for, give me a shout. And, in the meantime, I'll keep my eyes peeled for an exploder for you. Sounds like a trade might be in the works!

[nolixul]

The other point about replating is variable weight loss. The heads are stripped and then taken down to a very fine smooth finish before replating with various layers. Taking the heads down after replating involves getting rid of pits, dings, etc before polishing prior to plating. (Also regrooving will probably be needed). It is rare to be able to this without losing weight, and often a variable amount of weight, from across the iron set. Although replated irons may look nice, you may well find the originals are a better playing set. Collectors mostly look for original sets that have NOT been refinished. Refinished sets would appeal more to non-collector types who want to play or display. Hard core players will go for original heads and tweak to suit with their choice of shaft grips etc if needed. I personally avoid refinished sets like the plague now. Refinishing a set just to extract value is usually flawed logic too as the expense in getting a good refinishing done, plus reshafting, regripping etc is not always possible to make back through subsequent sale.

 

I made a mistake of buying a beautiful refinished set of Hogans years ago, only to find that i needed to really tweak the heads with lead, hosel weights and tungsten to get them playable. Kind of defeated the purpose of showing off and playing beautiful clubs. I've no qualms now about playing clubs splattered with lead, but back then, I was distraught at not being able to play the heads as was.

 

If one is going to replate, then best to go for models that had really heavy heads and can take some weight loss like some of the old Mac models.

[HoganApexBlades]

Keep them original. And play them :)

Played 42 holes with them yesterday as they are. Loved them. No plans to do anything with them other than play them as is. Thought the shorter shafts would make a difference, but just takes a bit of getting used to it. Have to take into account the differences in the strength of the lofts, but they were right on numbers when this is taken into account.

 

North,

 

Glad to hear that you are leaving them original. Good choice!!!

[HoganApexBlades]

Keep them original. And play them :)

Played 42 holes with them yesterday as they are. Loved them. No plans to do anything with them other than play them as is. Thought the shorter shafts would make a difference, but just takes a bit of getting used to it. Have to take into account the differences in the strength of the lofts, but they were right on numbers when this is taken into account.

Only thing now is to find a decent "Exploder" for the this set. I have a "Forty-Seven" Hogan sand iron that kind of fits with the set, but if the Precision Exploder is as good as the Precision Equalizer I definitely want one. I guess the hunt never truly ends with vintage clubs, there is always another Unicorn to chase!

 

Keep chasing! Everyday is like an adventure. Some days you find nothing and other days you strike gold!

 

The other point about replating is variable weight loss. The heads are stripped and then taken down to a very fine smooth finish before replating with various layers. Taking the heads down after replating involves getting rid of pits, dings, etc before polishing prior to plating. (Also regrooving will probably be needed). It is rare to be able to this without losing weight, and often a variable amount of weight, from across the iron set. Although replated irons may look nice, you may well find the originals are a better playing set. Collectors mostly look for original sets that have NOT been refinished. Refinished sets would appeal more to non-collector types who want to play or display. Hard core players will go for original heads and tweak to suit with their choice of shaft grips etc if needed. I personally avoid refinished sets like the plague now. Refinishing a set just to extract value is usually flawed logic too as the expense in getting a good refinishing done, plus reshafting, regripping etc is not always possible to make back through subsequent sale.

 

I made a mistake of buying a beautiful refinished set of Hogans years ago, only to find that i needed to really tweak the heads with lead, hosel weights and tungsten to get them playable. Kind of defeated the purpose of showing off and playing beautiful clubs. I've no qualms now about playing clubs splattered with lead, but back then, I was distraught at not being able to play the heads as was.

 

If one is going to replate, then best to go for models that had really heavy heads and can take some weight loss like some of the old Mac models.

 

I concur 100%!!!

[northplatteriver]

Keep them original. And play them :)

Played 42 holes with them yesterday as they are. Loved them. No plans to do anything with them other than play them as is. Thought the shorter shafts would make a difference, but just takes a bit of getting used to it. Have to take into account the differences in the strength of the lofts, but they were right on numbers when this is taken into account.

Only thing now is to find a decent "Exploder" for the this set. I have a "Forty-Seven" Hogan sand iron that kind of fits with the set, but if the Precision Exploder is as good as the Precision Equalizer I definitely want one. I guess the hunt never truly ends with vintage clubs, there is always another Unicorn to chase!

 

If you like the forty-seven, that is cool. It isn't nearly from the same vintage time wise, but is otherwise a very solid club that was only produced for a short period of time. Can't hardly find any of them out there.

 

If you ever feel the need to find it a home where it will be respected and played and cared for, give me a shout. And, in the meantime, I'll keep my eyes peeled for an exploder for you. Sounds like a trade might be in the works!

I like the sound of this.

[Wriggles]

They look fine to me. Play them as is.

 

Enjoy!

[HoldenCornfield]

Here is what I wrote in another thread about my re-chroming experience:

 

"For anybody who has wondered how much weight is lost during the stripping, grinding, and rechroming process, here is what I measured before and after:

 

before - after = net loss (grams)

2i : 251 - 247 = 4

3i : 255 - 254 = 1

4i : 265 - 263 = 2

5i : 266 - 264 = 2

6i : 278 - 275 = 3

7i : 284 - 283 = 1

8i : 296 - 295 = 1

9i : 300 - 294 = 6

Eq: 309 - 307 = 2

Ex: 316 - 309 = 7

 

The 2, 9, and Exploder sand wedge lost the most weight, and not coincidentally these were the three clubs that were in the worst condition. I'm sure all three required a lot of grinding which would explain the weight loss. With the other 7 clubheads I don't think one would be able to tell the difference, before and after."

 

This weight loss can be easily accounted for during re-assembly and as you can see from the before weights, they weren't on perfect increments of 7 grams to begin with -- nobody has quality control that good, at least not in the 1950's though I doubt they do even today.

 

Just do a dry fit with each club & shaft, cut the shaft to each club's pre-determinded length, then install a split grip (old grip sliced longways for easy on/off, weighted with lead tape to match the weight of your new grips) and check the swingweights on a scale. Do this for all of the clubs before you start gluing. Then use lead tip weights (they come in weights from 2 to 10 grams) to get each club to your intended swingweight (or MOI if you're matching with that method).

 

You'll end with a much better built set than you could ever buy off the shelf.

 

 

Played 42 holes with them yesterday as they are. Loved them. No plans to do anything with them other than play them as is. Thought the shorter shafts would make a difference, but just takes a bit of getting used to it. Have to take into account the differences in the strength of the lofts, but they were right on numbers when this is taken into account.

 

If you like them as is, that's great. There is no wrong answer, here. One thing you'll probably want to do, though, is have the lofts and lies checked and adjusted. Most sets from the 50's would start with a 2 iron at about 20* of loft and go in 4* increments from there up to a 52* Equalizer.

 

Alternately, you could just set up the lofts and lies based on your modern iron set -- assuming, that is, you like the way they sit at address and the yardage gaps between them.

 

HOWEVER, just keep in mind that you must match them up based on LENGTH, not on whatever number is stamped on the sole. For example, you'll probably find that your vintage 5 iron is the same length as your modern 7 iron. Therefore, have the loft and lie of your vintage 5 iron matched to your modern 7. Then you will have a very good idea of how far each club should go and it will setup at address for you in a comfortable way. If you know your modern 7 goes 155 yards, for instance, then now you know how far your vintage 5 iron will -- or should -- go.

[HoganApexBlades]

Here is what I wrote in another thread about my re-chroming experience:

 

"For anybody who has wondered how much weight is lost during the stripping, grinding, and rechroming process, here is what I measured before and after:

 

before - after = net loss (grams)

2i : 251 - 247 = 4

3i : 255 - 254 = 1

4i : 265 - 263 = 2

5i : 266 - 264 = 2

6i : 278 - 275 = 3

7i : 284 - 283 = 1

8i : 296 - 295 = 1

9i : 300 - 294 = 6

Eq: 309 - 307 = 2

Ex: 316 - 309 = 7

 

The 2, 9, and Exploder sand wedge lost the most weight, and not coincidentally these were the three clubs that were in the worst condition. I'm sure all three required a lot of grinding which would explain the weight loss. With the other 7 clubheads I don't think one would be able to tell the difference, before and after."

 

This weight loss can be easily accounted for during re-assembly and as you can see from the before weights, they weren't on perfect increments of 7 grams to begin with -- nobody has quality control that good, at least not in the 1950's though I doubt they do even today.

 

Just do a dry fit with each club & shaft, cut the shaft to each club's pre-determinded length, then install a split grip (old grip sliced longways for easy on/off, weighted with lead tape to match the weight of your new grips) and check the swingweights on a scale. Do this for all of the clubs before you start gluing. Then use lead tip weights (they come in weights from 2 to 10 grams) to get each club to your intended swingweight (or MOI if you're matching with that method).

 

You'll end with a much better built set than you could ever buy off the shelf.

 

 

Played 42 holes with them yesterday as they are. Loved them. No plans to do anything with them other than play them as is. Thought the shorter shafts would make a difference, but just takes a bit of getting used to it. Have to take into account the differences in the strength of the lofts, but they were right on numbers when this is taken into account.

 

If you like them as is, that's great. There is no wrong answer, here. One thing you'll probably want to do, though, is have the lofts and lies checked and adjusted. Most sets from the 50's would start with a 2 iron at about 20* of loft and go in 4* increments from there up to a 52* Equalizer.

 

Alternately, you could just set up the lofts and lies based on your modern iron set -- assuming, that is, you like the way they sit at address and the yardage gaps between them.

 

HOWEVER, just keep in mind that you must match them up based on LENGTH, not on whatever number is stamped on the sole. For example, you'll probably find that your vintage 5 iron is the same length as your modern 7 iron. Therefore, have the loft and lie of your vintage 5 iron matched to your modern 7. Then you will have a very good idea of how far each club should go and it will setup at address for you in a comfortable way. If you know your modern 7 goes 155 yards, for instance, then now you know how far your vintage 5 iron will -- or should -- go.

 

Kevin,

 

Great info!

[BIG STU]

The other point about replating is variable weight loss. The heads are stripped and then taken down to a very fine smooth finish before replating with various layers. Taking the heads down after replating involves getting rid of pits, dings, etc before polishing prior to plating. (Also regrooving will probably be needed). It is rare to be able to this without losing weight, and often a variable amount of weight, from across the iron set. Although replated irons may look nice, you may well find the originals are a better playing set. Collectors mostly look for original sets that have NOT been refinished. Refinished sets would appeal more to non-collector types who want to play or display. Hard core players will go for original heads and tweak to suit with their choice of shaft grips etc if needed. I personally avoid refinished sets like the plague now. Refinishing a set just to extract value is usually flawed logic too as the expense in getting a good refinishing done, plus reshafting, regripping etc is not always possible to make back through subsequent sale.

 

I made a mistake of buying a beautiful refinished set of Hogans years ago, only to find that i needed to really tweak the heads with lead, hosel weights and tungsten to get them playable. Kind of defeated the purpose of showing off and playing beautiful clubs. I've no qualms now about playing clubs splattered with lead, but back then, I was distraught at not being able to play the heads as was.

 

If one is going to replate, then best to go for models that had really heavy heads and can take some weight loss like some of the old Mac models.

Even though I am Mr Dr Lead tape and do not hesitate I am in the same delimma with the partial set of Hogan Grinds I found the other week. I have hit them some and I really like the short irons. They are a little light compared to the heavy Mac irons I am used to. The back of those clubs to me are beautiful (you Hoganistas are starting to rub off on me) and I am in a hesitant mood to do the tape thing. But I know me and I will get that wild hair and will apply the tape at some point. Got do do some lie adjustments too they are a little flat for me. The Equalizer checked out at 60* where 64* is my standard lie. They had jacked the loft some and had this one at 45*. I put it back to 50* which I believe is standard. Besides I was experimenting with 50* wedges. The Cameo Equalizer was on the same specs as the Grind. Both of those for some reason were missing the 8 iron. Bear is getting the Cameos because he bought a partial set at GW the other day and I have some of the irons he is missing. Those Cameo sets are non related though. Both my Grinds and Cameo sets came from a steel dumpster from the county land fill and his Cameos came from GW

[golfmj228]

Stu do you have a loft & lie machine or do you adjust by some other method? I only ask because I don't have a machine (nor the cash to get one at the moment) but need to adjust a few sets...

[oxtail]

Stu do you have a loft & lie machine or do you adjust by some other method? I only ask because I don't have a machine (nor the cash to get one at the moment) but need to adjust a few sets...

 

There’s always the hammer, vice, and protractor approach, if you could rig a consistent measuring setup... but this is way to hard to be accurate and precise. I’d just save up and buy something cheap off the bay for bending only and do the measuring separate.

[golfmj228]

Yep, have read some other posts about vice & hammer but just didn't seem like it would be very easy to be accurate. I've only ever run across really pricey machines locally and haven't give much thought to the bay or other places as shipping seems to be an ill! And of course Mitchell and others aren't very price friendly via ordering so maybe eBay is my best bet...

[HoldenCornfield]

Yep, have read some other posts about vice & hammer but just didn't seem like it would be very easy to be accurate. I've only ever run across really pricey machines locally and haven't give much thought to the bay or other places as shipping seems to be an ill! And of course Mitchell and others aren't very price friendly via ordering so maybe eBay is my best bet...

 

I use an older version of this that I found on Craigslist a few years back:

 

 

 

I was able to buy mine with a bending bar for about $70, iirc (btw, the one from golfworks comes with a bending bar, also).

 

It does not have any built-in scales to show you how much you are bending so there's a lot of trial and error involved -- bending then removing and placing in bench vise to check the new angles (if you want pics of this let me know and I'll post pics, it can be done with less than $20 worth of hand tools). If they're still off I have to put it back in the iron vise and go again.

 

It usually takes me 60-90 minutes to bend a full set of irons so this is terribly inefficient if you have a lot to do. However, in my case I only bend a couple sets per year and the price was definitely right.

 

Here's another link to a foreign company (Taiwan, i think) that sells various bending machines. Scroll about halfway down to find the lower priced models, including a simple iron vice like above:

 

http://www.golfmechanix.com/Items.asp?Pdts=15

[birly-shirly]

I bought a used Golfsmith loft and lie machine on ebay a few years ago and have never regretted it. Think it might have cost me maybe a couple of hundred pounds, but it has more than paid for itself in setting up lots of cheaply acquired irons and wedges since. It's always quite eye opening how far out of adjustment old forgings can get. Even pretty old school irons have been moved easily 5* to get them back where I want them. FWIW, mine seems to measure specs quite accurately too.

[golfmj228]

Thanks for the info and yes if I find one in the $100 or less range I'd be all about it...I would only bend a couple sets a year also so I just can't see justifying the big dollars on one!