Stuck on Downswing

[Byoung359]

Hi everyone,

 

I can’t quite put my finger on it, but somethings off on my backswing. The club tends to get a little behind me on the downswing, causing me to hit blocks and flip hooks on occasion.

 

This particular swing turned out well, since I was able to get the timing right. 
 

Any advice would be much appreciated, here’s a video of my swing.

 

 

Edited January 24, 2021 by Byoung359

[betarhoalphadelta]

I'm seeing a lot of what I'd call pretty textbook moves. I don't see any issue on the BS, and your position at the top looks good to me. Pretty decent positions shallowing on the downswing, clubhead openness and position at P6, and nice opening of the hips through the downswing. 

 

Any chance you can get a face-on view? I'd love to see your position at impact. 

 

One thing I would look at is hip depth. Align your mouse pointer exactly at the depth of your butt cheeks at address, and then step through frame by frame all the way through impact.

 

At the start of your backswing you do a good job of getting depth in the right hip, but by the top of the backswing it's even with where it was at address, when it should be to the left of it (deeper). Then when you start your downswing and through to impact you never quite maintain that depth, to the point where at impact your left cheek would be just barely even with the mouse pointer when it should be to the left of it (deeper). 

 

Check out the below video. Most critical point is starting at the 4:30 mark.

 

 

When you look at the pro, by the top of his backswing his right cheek and his upper thigh have crossed that vertical plane "the plate of glass". At P5 both cheeks are behind that plane, and at impact the left cheek and upper thigh are behind that plane.

 

The lack of spacing of maintaining hip depth means you don't have room to swing the club through impact. 

 

To make room, you see your hips and torso raise from P6 through impact. You do a really good job of keeping the head from showing that motion, but if you are going through frame by frame you can see the hips raise, and see your shoulders and neck raise with it. Your body must do this to keep from chunking the shot because there's not enough room. 

 

I think if you keep the hips deeper throughout the backswing and downswing, it will create more room to stay down through impact, get your shoulders a little more open at impact and your hands ahead of the ball (again why I'd like to see the face-on view), and to square the club without having to catch up and flip with the hands, hopefully reducing the two-way miss you describe.

 

That's what I'm seeing, anyway. Note that I'm not an expert; I just play one on the internet 😉

[tthomasgolfer605]

You completely misdiagnosed your swing fault. That keeping the club in front stuff is ruining people.  Every great golfer has the club coming from behind them since we stand on the side of the ball. If anything, you need the club more behind you in the downswing. Ben Hogan stated, "You don't hit the ball on your backswing." 

[glk]

 Not the backswing.   Backswing puts you in good position.   You pull club steep and fail to motorcycle (start closing the face early by flexing lead wrist).    Reaction is you early extend, stall, and flip.

 

club needs  to fall behind your hand path as you start to twist the club closed.    Shallow and start closing face early.

 

 

 

https://www.instagram.com/p/CIRY1WoliAE/

https://www.instagram.com/p/B9upchvlBkK/

 

See Monte’s NTC also.
 

https://www.instagram.com/p/CJtm4GxlRPO/

https://www.instagram.com/p/B9uS-bflJJD/

Edited January 25, 2021 by glk

[wagolfer7]

@Byoung359 - Nice looking swing.  

 

From what I can tell, you are where I was a few years ago.  And for me at least - it was a very difficult road to improve from there.  

 

My advice is to start understanding and learning about transition.  Right now it looks to me, that you have a backswing and a downswing.  And your general thought might be to turn back and then turn through.  It's actually turn back - transition - now turn through.  That's the key to shallowing the club, using the ground and not EE at impact.  

 

  @glk put up some good advice as well.  Although the active motorcycle move - was not a cure that worked for me...I know it's a popular move taught and discussed on this forum.  

 

[Valtiel]

I agree with the guys above, zero problems with the backswing, everything is pretty textbook there. All the problems are in transition with the steepening that was mentioned. It also sounds like you are stuck in a "feel vs. real" trap here as not only is the club NOT stuck behind you like you feel it is, it is actually way too far out in front of you, which goes hand in hand with steepening in the downswing instead of shallowing, and results in your hands being miles above where they started at address. From there you have to really throw your hands to rapidly square the club which is where blocks/hooks will come in to play if you don't time it right. There is a UK Youtube golfer that has this exact same steep/extend/flip move and it is absolute murder on strike and directional consistency. No amount of practice or grinding will ever make a meaningful dent in your inconsistency issues without first fixing your transition/delivery. 

As mentioned, everything going back looks good, but we would need to see a face on view to be sure re: weight transfer etc. Once you reach the top, the first problem is that instead of letting the hands fall down into the "slot" to get on plane, you lead with them and fire them out more towards the ball, which is where all the steepening comes from. From there you are stuck as the club is now open and heading towards the ground, so you quickly snap your hips by standing up and extending to make room for the out of sequence arms, but now you're out of sequence in the opposite extreme and your hips stall while you're forced to flip the club square while it digs into the ground toe down. It is a bit like bad stop and go traffic, and the key to gaining consistency is smoothing things out and getting them working together. I definitely recommend the Monte videos linked above. 

[Byoung359]

Great feedback, thank you @Valtiel @wagolfer7 @glk! You all are correct - the club is too steep on the downswing and I need to shallow it out. I did notice that my arms were getting slightly behind me on the backswing, but I'm in a very acceptable position at the top to drop the club in to the slot and approach the ball from the inside as you mentioned.

 

Quote

Once you reach the top, the first problem is that instead of letting the hands fall down into the "slot" to get on plane, you lead with them and fire them out more towards the ball, which is where all the steepening comes from. From there you are stuck as the club is now open and heading towards the ground, so you quickly snap your hips by standing up and extending to make room for the out of sequence arms, but now you're out of sequence in the opposite extreme and your hips stall while you're forced to flip the club square while it digs into the ground toe down. It is a bit like bad stop and go traffic, and the key to gaining consistency is smoothing things out and getting them working together. I definitely recommend the Monte videos linked above. 

 

I think @Valtiel very accurately described the issue in the quote above, that's exactly what the swing feels like. The videos provided are very helpful as well; I'll make the downswing changes described during my next practice session and see how things turn out. Thank you very much for your help everyone!

Edited January 26, 2021 by Byoung359