Rules Question - Tiger (Dubai)

[ez1putt]

So in watching the replay of Tiger on 18 in the final round in Dubai, I noticed something pretty strange prior to his chip onto 18. If you pay attention, after he establishes his stance, evaluates his swing path options, then walks onto the green to find his landing spot. There is a front / ledge of some sort between his ball and the pin that he purposefully thumps the back/bottom of his wedge into. You can actually hear the thump on the audio He was clearly testing out the firmness of the green and that particular spot to see if he needed to hit it there or carry that spot. I thought it was illegal to test the firmness of the green?

 

Thoughts?

[bunter101]

correct. but........

[Veritas]

So in watching the replay of Tiger on 18 in the final round in Dubai, I noticed something pretty strange prior to his chip onto 18. If you pay attention, after he establishes his stance, evaluates his swing path options, then walks onto the green to find his landing spot. There is a front / ledge of some sort between his ball and the pin that he purposefully thumps the back/bottom of his wedge into. You can actually hear the thump on the audio He was clearly testing out the firmness of the green and that particular spot to see if he needed to hit it there or carry that spot. I thought it was illegal to test the firmness of the green?

 

Thoughts?

 

and thumpgate begins...

[Southern Ca Boy]

haha yep. It could never be proven. If that was in fact what he was doing.......

 

we will never know and it doesn't matter anyways. He hit a horrible shot anyways ha-ha. Not that I'm saying it's ok to cheat if you are going to hit a crappy shot :)

[Pinehurst1999]

I see guys do it all the time as a method of smoothing out small bumps in your line.

[Southern Ca Boy]

Ya but your not allowed to do that until your ball is on the green....

 

Your not allowed to fix ball marks on the green until your ball comes to rest on it.

[Pat_Irish]

didnt see it, dont need to be proved, if it was on the line, 2 shot penalty, many have been nailed before,,,remember Wei,s first outing as a pro?

[Forged in Japan]

exactly!

[KevCarter]

Your not allowed to fix ball marks on the green until your ball comes to rest on it.

 

Sorry dude, that is not correct.

 

16-1c

 

c. Repair of Hole Plugs, Ball Marks and Other Damage

 

The player may repair an old hole plug or damage to the putting green caused by the impact of a ball, whether or not the player's ball lies on the putting green. If a ball or ball-marker is accidentally moved in the process of the repair, the ball or ball-marker must be replaced. There is no penalty, provided the movement of the ball or ball-marker is directly attributable to the specific act of repairing an old hole plug or damage to the putting green caused by the impact of a ball. Otherwise, Rule 18 applies.

 

Any other damage to the putting green must not be repaired if it might assist the player in his subsequent play of the hole.

 

Kevin

[Pat_Irish]

Correct Kevin, but thumping down is not considered reparing, and you are expected to confirm the damage with your marker prior to reparing

[KevCarter]

Pat,

 

I was only responding to the incorrect post. Just trying to avoid misconceptions.

 

On the ruling in the threads title... I believe you had to be there and discuss it with Mr. Woods. I believe it could have been as simple as dropping the head of his wedge, I did not see it. I believe Mr. Woods WOULD NEVER knowingly violate a rule of golf. We have officials to watch these things and I don't believe in getting involved in rulings from TV.

 

Kevin

[Pat_Irish]

Kevin

 

Didnt see it myself, so i cant comment on reality. it sonds a bit iffy,

 

Wish i could have a video from a tour event in china back in nov 2006,, involving a bunker, where something funny happened, but guess thast golf,,and i did feel sorry for Wei,,,she was setup i feel

[Pat_Irish]

Kevin

 

Didnt see it myself, so i cant comment on reality. it sonds a bit iffy,

 

Wish i could have a video from a tour event in china back in nov 2006,, involving a bunker, where something funny happened, but guess thast golf,,and i did feel sorry for Wei,,,she was setup i feel

[Forged in Japan]

Wrong "dude"

 

He can only repair those if he is putting. This rule applies to people putting. You are not allowed to move things or press things down in front of your golf ball unless you are PUTTING....

 

hence this saying "touching the line of a PUTT", not a golf shot/swing. I'm pretty sure "Mr. Woods" didn't putt that ball.

 

 

 

Rules of Golf - Rule 16: The Putting Green

From USGA

 

16-1. General

• a. Touching Line of Putt

The line of putt must not be touched except:

 

(i) the player may remove loose impediments, provided he does not press anything down;

(ii) the player may place the club in front of the ball when addressing it, provided he does not press anything down;

(iii) in measuring — Rule 18-6;

(iv) in lifting the ball — Rule 16-1b;

(v) in pressing down a ball-marker;

(vi) in repairing old hole plugs or ball marks on the putting green — Rule 16-1c; and

(vii) in removing movable obstructions — Rule 24-1.

 

(Indicating line for putting on putting green — see Rule 8-2b.)

 

 

 

Lifting Ball

A ball on the putting green may be lifted and, if desired, cleaned. The position of the ball must be marked before it is lifted and the ball must be replaced (See Rule 20-1). • c. Repair of Hole Plugs, Ball Marks and Other Damage

The player may repair an old hole plug or damage to the putting green caused by the impact of a ball, whether or not the player's ball lies on the putting green. If a ball or ball-marker is accidentally moved in the process of the repair, the ball or ball-marker must be replaced. There is no penalty, provided the movement of the ball or ball-marker is directly attributable to the specific act of repairing an old hole plug or damage to the putting green caused by the impact of a ball. Otherwise, Rule 18 applies.

[KevCarter]

What part of the rule book don't you understand?

 

Rule 16-1c

 

c. Repair of Hole Plugs, Ball Marks and Other Damage

 

The player may repair an old hole plug or damage to the putting green caused by the impact of a ball, whether or not the player's ball lies on the putting green. If a ball or ball-marker is accidentally moved in the process of the repair, the ball or ball-marker must be replaced. There is no penalty, provided the movement of the ball or ball-marker is directly attributable to the specific act of repairing an old hole plug or damage to the putting green caused by the impact of a ball. Otherwise, Rule 18 applies.

 

Any other damage to the putting green must not be repaired if it might assist the player in his subsequent play of the hole.

 

Kevin

[Pat_Irish]

actually i believe you must be on the putting surface as well,,,putting from off the green has the same rules as chipping etc refered to as "through the green"

[Pat_Irish]

you answered the question Kevin

[KevCarter]

actually i believe you must be on the putting surface as well,,,putting from off the green has the same rules as chipping etc refered to as "through the green"

 

Sorry guys, I am quoting directly from the rule book. Am I missing something here?

 

Kevin

[Forged in Japan]

Your the one not understanding Kev

[Forged in Japan]

I took a class in a golf college on the rules of golf and the verbage in the rule book is often misunderstood.

 

I'm positive on this rule because it came up specifically in the class. The rules officials in golf tournaments have to attend these classes to even be considered for the tournament.

 

There have been many instances where players have been penalized for this. That is why you never see players fixing ball marks and things until they are "putting" the ball.

[KevCarter]

What am I not understanding? Just trying to keep things straight. Did you look at my post to see what part of your quoted text I was responding to? What am I missing? I'm not trying to be a jerk, just want to be sure correct information is put forth here. I believe the rule I posted is pretty self explanatory!

 

Kevin

[KevCarter]

I've been attending rules workshops since you were born. I've also attended the advanced workshops and made the top score classification with the USGA. There are hundreds of officials better than me, but I can certainly hold my own here. I want to know how the bolded portion of my post can possibly be mis-read. If you can't read black and white, I give up.

 

Kevin

[Irridium]

No Point citing USGA Rules, It was a EURO Event with Euro Rules

[Forged in Japan]

it's ok. I don't think any of us are trying to be jerks. It's just coming across like that. You just need to read the entire rule. Not just the part that you are posting.

 

Look at the beginning of the rule. This rule is referring to "the line of putt"

 

so if you are doing anything besides putting....this rule does not apply. Tiger was not putting. So this rule is not the right ruling for the situation.

 

If tiger was putting then you would be correct.

 

Ok enough time on this post. My wife wants the comp. and I'm missing the bowl game and dinner.

 

later

[KevCarter]

With the exception of the availability of a couple of local rules, the USGA and R&A rules are now identical.

 

Kevin

[Forged in Japan]

since I was born?? wow...how do you even know how old I am??

 

unreal

 

I'm out.

[Pat_Irish]

Maybe we are all in agreement and getting mixed up, but i am open to correction but many players who actually overshoot the green repair plug marks on their way ascross the green, But i also know that banging a club and or dropping a club on you line can be testing, in the last few months i actually saw a guy being pulled for practising a chip forward of where his ball lay, as it was deemed he had not improved his line he was given the ok ( it was about 5 yards ahead) But he was brought out to re-enact what he had done

[KevCarter]

c. Repair of Hole Plugs, Ball Marks and Other Damage

 

The player may repair an old hole plug or damage to the putting green caused by the impact of a ball, whether or not the player's ball lies on the putting green.

 

How can you possibly say this does not apply to when a ball mark can be fixed?

 

Kevin

[Pat_Irish]

Ok I am lost, if i putt out of a bunker are the rules different from if i use a wedge?,,Rules of golf cover 2 things as i understand through the green and on the green,,wrong?,,,nothing to do with the type of stroke used ie,,putting

[KevCarter]

Ok I am lost, if i putt out of a bunker are the rules different from if i use a wedge?,,Rules of golf cover 2 things as i understand through the green and on the green,,wrong?,,,nothing to do with the type of stroke used ie,,putting

 

You are NOT lost at all. Someone else is confused and making you lose track of what you know is right.

 

Kevin