How to get shaft on forearm plane on downswing?

[Shinogolf]

Anyone have an idea of how to get a little more shallow in the DS with my swing type?

 

Thanks.

Edited March 26, 2023 by Shinogolf
Spelling

[slytown]

You have good lower body moves but the hands come way out past the toes, pushing the clubhead from out-to-in. You do a good job of squaring the face but you've got the pulls with an out-to-in path in this video here. Work on getting that club on a more in-to-out path. This can be accomplished by starting the club down while the back is to the target. I like this drill.

 

 

[Shinogolf]

21 minutes ago, slytown said:

You have good lower body moves but the hands come way out past the toes, pushing the clubhead from out-to-in. You do a good job of squaring the face but you've got the pulls with an out-to-in path in this video here. Work on getting that club on a more in-to-out path. This can be accomplished by starting the club down while the back is to the target. I like this drill.

 

 

Cool. Thanks. Ever since I started to "swing left" I got stuck in this bad action. Now when I try to swing a little more in to out I've completely lost the feel I once had dropping the club from the inside. Hands feel like they are wiping across my body. Or if I do make a decent transition, the lower body still wants to try to swing left. Looks like I just need to keep with drills like the one you posted until my muscle memory falls back into my older in to out action. Just going to have to take hours of range work. Can't even hit a draw right now. So frustrating. Should of never messed with something that worked well enough.

 

 

[Valtiel]

I'd pull this all the way back to address position. You start in a pretty neutral one and then during your waggle you totally stretch out to the ball and get yourself too bent over:



You're reaching out easily 6" more than you should be to address the ball, and we see the telltale sign of this unbalancing in your takeaway:



Your spine angle changes immediately and your head moves way back. Lean too far forward and your brain is going to automatically balance you once you stop thinking about forcing yourself into a particular posture. And hey, guess what:



That spine angle change and backwards head movement in takeaway? They line up almost perfectly to the ones you established during your setup *before* you reached way to actually address the ball. Where your club is on the ground in the first frame of this gif is where the ball should be, and that feels weird to have the ball that much closer then you're spent too much time with the ball too far away and you need to recalibrate.

A lot of what you're doing otherwise looks quite good, you're just literally having to stall out your rotation in the downswing and reach out to hit the ball likes underneath a bush due to your address position:



You mentioned "getting more shallow in the DS" and you do NOT need to worry about that, you're perfectly on plane here with an overall great looking Trevino-esque move going on. Just address the ball per above and literally do everything else the same. It might feel weird depending on how long you've been doing this wrong so give it time.

 

Edited March 27, 2023 by Valtiel

[Shinogolf]

13 hours ago, Valtiel said:

I'd pull this all the way back to address position. You start in a pretty neutral one and then during your waggle you totally stretch out to the ball and get yourself too bent over:



You're reaching out easily 6" more than you should be to address the ball, and we see the telltale sign of this unbalancing in your takeaway:



Your spine angle changes immediately and your head moves way back. Lean too far forward and your brain is going to automatically balance you once you stop thinking about forcing yourself into a particular posture. And hey, guess what:



That spine angle change and backwards head movement in takeaway? They line up almost perfectly to the ones you established during your setup *before* you reached way to actually address the ball. Where your club is on the ground in the first frame of this gif is where the ball should be, and that feels weird to have the ball that much closer then you're spent too much time with the ball too far away and you need to recalibrate.

A lot of what you're doing otherwise looks quite good, you're just literally having to stall out your rotation in the downswing and reach out to hit the ball likes underneath a bush due to your address position:



You mentioned "getting more shallow in the DS" and you do NOT need to worry about that, you're perfectly on plane here with an overall great looking Trevino-esque move going on. Just address the ball per above and literally do everything else the same. It might feel weird depending on how long you've been doing this wrong so give it time.

 

Thanks. I've been told this as well. Have been trying to get closer at address but can't seem to do it. Everything feels off balance when I'm closer to it. Might be a mobility issue. I play low rent professional golf right now and can touch the low 60s. Everytime I try to work in getting closer to the ball at address I have a mental brain fart on how to swing the club. I just watched AMGs how far to stand from the ball that was released yesterday on YT.  29" is tour average. So I'll measure that out in my range work and fight against my pre shot routine. It's all very built in and can be timed to the second when I pull the trigger. So it's not the fact that I need to stand closer. It's everything leading up to pulling the trigger that is hard to make soften up. Almost like it's hard baked in. Hopefully I can break the routine and work intro a new one while also getting use to the feeling on standing closer through out the swing before US Open qualifier. Not sure if a month will be long enough though.

 

Do I look open to the line in my OP video? It looks to me like I am slightly which is why the shaft plane is a little above the forearm plane. Which I agree is on plane. I feel like if I can get it more on the forearm plane I'll be in a more neutral calibration that will allow me to start working the ball again like I use to. Draws, fades, and trajectory came very natural to me in the not too distant past. Now I'm stuck with just trying to get it on the green somewhere and I know I'm capable of creating shots much more precise than my current state.

 

 

Thanks for the help.

[tthomasgolfer605]

17 hours ago, Valtiel said:

I'd pull this all the way back to address position. You start in a pretty neutral one and then during your waggle you totally stretch out to the ball and get yourself too bent over:



You're reaching out easily 6" more than you should be to address the ball, and we see the telltale sign of this unbalancing in your takeaway:



Your spine angle changes immediately and your head moves way back. Lean too far forward and your brain is going to automatically balance you once you stop thinking about forcing yourself into a particular posture. And hey, guess what:



That spine angle change and backwards head movement in takeaway? They line up almost perfectly to the ones you established during your setup *before* you reached way to actually address the ball. Where your club is on the ground in the first frame of this gif is where the ball should be, and that feels weird to have the ball that much closer then you're spent too much time with the ball too far away and you need to recalibrate.

A lot of what you're doing otherwise looks quite good, you're just literally having to stall out your rotation in the downswing and reach out to hit the ball likes underneath a bush due to your address position:



You mentioned "getting more shallow in the DS" and you do NOT need to worry about that, you're perfectly on plane here with an overall great looking Trevino-esque move going on. Just address the ball per above and literally do everything else the same. It might feel weird depending on how long you've been doing this wrong so give it time.

 

Good eye. Why are people so resistant to change the setup just because it feels weird? Of course it'll feel weird at first. 

[Valtiel]

4 hours ago, Shinogolf said:

Thanks. I've been told this as well. Have been trying to get closer at address but can't seem to do it. Everything feels off balance when I'm closer to it. Might be a mobility issue. I play low rent professional golf right now and can touch the low 60s. Everytime I try to work in getting closer to the ball at address I have a mental brain fart on how to swing the club. I just watched AMGs how far to stand from the ball that was released yesterday on YT.  29" is tour average. So I'll measure that out in my range work and fight against my pre shot routine. It's all very built in and can be timed to the second when I pull the trigger. So it's not the fact that I need to stand closer. It's everything leading up to pulling the trigger that is hard to make soften up. Almost like it's hard baked in. Hopefully I can break the routine and work intro a new one while also getting use to the feeling on standing closer through out the swing before US Open qualifier. Not sure if a month will be long enough though.

 

Do I look open to the line in my OP video? It looks to me like I am slightly which is why the shaft plane is a little above the forearm plane. Which I agree is on plane. I feel like if I can get it more on the forearm plane I'll be in a more neutral calibration that will allow me to start working the ball again like I use to. Draws, fades, and trajectory came very natural to me in the not too distant past. Now I'm stuck with just trying to get it on the green somewhere and I know I'm capable of creating shots much more precise than my current state.

 

 

Thanks for the help.

I would be really curious to see what actually does happen when you adjust your address position and how those brain farts manifest, hah. If you're down for some experimentation then i'd request you film yourself again in as similar a location/angle as possible so I could overlay your stock swing and your "closer to the ball" swing to see what changes. Best case scenario we find something worth exploring there. Worst case we learn that your address distance is something deeply ingrained (I assume you've played since childhood given how you move) and that it ends up not really being worth addressing, so to speak 😜. You aren't actually suffering from any fundamental flaws via your setup it looks like. Most people end up early extending like crazy when they stand too far from the ball, but you stay well balanced. If you started playing as a kid for example and used your dad's full length clubs then maybe standing further away from the ball and extending your arms more to hit it just ended up in your swing DNA and it isn't worth fighting.

Regularly breaking 70 means there is precious little reason to start mucking with a formula that clearly works, and even if you wanted to it might be more pain than it is worth. Think about it though, and definitely get those measurements. If 29" is tour average then I wouldn't be surprised to see you in the high 30's, maybe over 40". 

[Shinogolf]

On 3/27/2023 at 7:34 PM, Valtiel said:

I would be really curious to see what actually does happen when you adjust your address position and how those brain farts manifest, hah. If you're down for some experimentation then i'd request you film yourself again in as similar a location/angle as possible so I could overlay your stock swing and your "closer to the ball" swing to see what changes. Best case scenario we find something worth exploring there. Worst case we learn that your address distance is something deeply ingrained (I assume you've played since childhood given how you move) and that it ends up not really being worth addressing, so to speak 😜. You aren't actually suffering from any fundamental flaws via your setup it looks like. Most people end up early extending like crazy when they stand too far from the ball, but you stay well balanced. If you started playing as a kid for example and used your dad's full length clubs then maybe standing further away from the ball and extending your arms more to hit it just ended up in your swing DNA and it isn't worth fighting.

Regularly breaking 70 means there is precious little reason to start mucking with a formula that clearly works, and even if you wanted to it might be more pain than it is worth. Think about it though, and definitely get those measurements. If 29" is tour average then I wouldn't be surprised to see you in the high 30's, maybe over 40". 

Here's me trying to get closer to the ball with the same 4 iron. It's really difficult to get this close which looks like I'm still farther away from the ball then probably should be.

[Shinogolf]

On 4/4/2023 at 2:11 PM, Shinogolf said:

Here's me trying to get closer to the ball with the same 4 iron. It's really difficult to get this close which looks like I'm still farther away from the ball then probably should be.

I might turn out that a lot of my issues were due to overswinging because the shafts are too stiff so I soft stepped them. I also took out the tip weights and applied lead tape across the back of the heads. This seemed to help me stand closer to the ball without feeling like I needed to find an extra force factor I.e standing further away from it. I could feel the tip weights in the clubs for some reason and they seemed to stiffen the clubs somehow. Didn't test it on a freq machine though so I don't have scientific of this being the case. But the tip weights seemed to be a factor with causing off center strikes. Now I'm forming a good pattern on the center of the face were before everything tended to be more off the heel.

 

Hopefully now I can get the club to stop coming too much out in front of me on the way down and being a little too steep. I can play from this not so ideal position but I don't like it...lol

[slytown]

1 hour ago, Shinogolf said:

I might turn out that a lot of my issues were due to overswinging because the shafts are too stiff so I soft stepped them. I also took out the tip weights and applied lead tape across the back of the heads. This seemed to help me stand closer to the ball without feeling like I needed to find an extra force factor I.e standing further away from it. I could feel the tip weights in the clubs for some reason and they seemed to stiffen the clubs somehow. Didn't test it on a freq machine though so I don't have scientific of this being the case. But the tip weights seemed to be a factor with causing off center strikes. Now I'm forming a good pattern on the center of the face were before everything tended to be more off the heel.

 

Hopefully now I can get the club to stop coming too much out in front of me on the way down and being a little too steep. I can play from this not so ideal position but I don't like it...lol

 

Still not a drastic enough change at address. You still begin the backswing by backing up and sitting in your heels. Work on that address. Stand closer and upright. Nelly Korda has a great address.

[Shinogolf]

22 hours ago, slytown said:

 

Still not a drastic enough change at address. You still begin the backswing by backing up and sitting in your heels. Work on that address. Stand closer and upright. Nelly Korda has a great address.

Might have found something with my arm hang. If a have a little more bend in the arms at address I can stand a lot more closer to ball without feeling really uncomfortable at address. Ball strikes seems to be solid and flight seems to be consistent.

 

It also helped to remove the tip weights and ssx1. Getting center strikes now which I think is helping me find a better position and balance at address.

 

Didn't get a chance to take a video.as there was noone around.

[Shinogolf]

On 4/8/2023 at 4:54 PM, slytown said:

 

Still not a drastic enough change at address. You still begin the backswing by backing up and sitting in your heels. Work on that address. Stand closer and upright. Nelly Korda has a great address.

Might have found something with my arm hang. If I have a little more bend in the arms at address I can stand a lot more closer to ball without feeling really uncomfortable at address. Ball strikes seems to be solid and flight seems to be consistent.

 

It also helped to remove the tip weights and ssx1.

Edited April 11, 2023 by Shinogolf

[Valtiel]

On 4/9/2023 at 1:40 PM, Shinogolf said:

Might have found something with my arm hang. If I have a little more bend in the arms at address I can stand a lot more closer to ball without feeling really uncomfortable at address. Ball strikes seems to be solid and flight seems to be consistent.

 

It also helped to remove the tip weights and ssx1.

Sorry I forgot to follow up, but I agree with @slytown that the address change was minor. Overlaid with your old swing as close as possible you moved basically 1/4 as much as you could/should, but again this is all about strike consistency and feel. A larger sample size of strikes would be needed to determine whether getting in closer has benefits, because you're still swinging just fine and the wear mark on your club suggests good contact. Keep tinkering with what you're doing with an eye on strikes and flight and don't let initial discomfort in address position change stop you from working with it. 

[Shinogolf]

1 hour ago, Valtiel said:

Sorry I forgot to follow up, but I agree with @slytown that the address change was minor. Overlaid with your old swing as close as possible you moved basically 1/4 as much as you could/should, but again this is all about strike consistency and feel. A larger sample size of strikes would be needed to determine whether getting in closer has benefits, because you're still swinging just fine and the wear mark on your club suggests good contact. Keep tinkering with what you're doing with an eye on strikes and flight and don't let initial discomfort in address position change stop you from working with it. 

No worries. I appreciate your help. This standing farther away from the ball than ideal might be from me trying match the lie angle of the clubs to my swing. They are on the flat side. I played today trying to stand closer to the ball and couldn't handle it. After the round I moved the wedges, 5 and 8 iron 1 degree upright. Went back to the course and was able to stand closer without the lie angle looking flat and looking like they were pointing right. Started to flush the ball with a good in to out move that felt familiar to when I was ball striking really well. I'm thinking the flatter lie angles was forcing a more out to in path to match the angle. Had me making manipulations like swiping across the ball to match the lie angle. 

 

Now I feel like I can try to hit the inside of the ball and it seems to be matching up well. Shots were online and misses were better understood. My finish was in balance as well. 

 

Rambo's swing had me thinking about his equipment setup. He stands really close to the ball. His equipment reflects that. His irons are 3/4 an inch over standard and 1 upright. Those clubs must look very upright! Thus he needs to stand more upright and closer to the ball at address.

 

I'm 6 feet tall with a longer torso. I play 1/4 inch over and now at 1 degree upright from Titleist specs. The thing is Club Champion has me at 1.5 degrees flat. This is where things might of went haywire. 

 

Just glad to be able to go home from the course feeling like I'm making progress again.

 

Thanks for the help!

[slytown]

11 hours ago, Shinogolf said:

No worries. I appreciate your help. This standing farther away from the ball than ideal might be from me trying match the lie angle of the clubs to my swing. They are on the flat side. I played today trying to stand closer to the ball and couldn't handle it. After the round I moved the wedges, 5 and 8 iron 1 degree upright. Went back to the course and was able to stand closer without the lie angle looking flat and looking like they were pointing right. Started to flush the ball with a good in to out move that felt familiar to when I was ball striking really well. I'm thinking the flatter lie angles was forcing a more out to in path to match the angle. Had me making manipulations like swiping across the ball to match the lie angle. 

 

Now I feel like I can try to hit the inside of the ball and it seems to be matching up well. Shots were online and misses were better understood. My finish was in balance as well. 

 

Rambo's swing had me thinking about his equipment setup. He stands really close to the ball. His equipment reflects that. His irons are 3/4 an inch over standard and 1 upright. Those clubs must look very upright! Thus he needs to stand more upright and closer to the ball at address.

 

I'm 6 feet tall with a longer torso. I play 1/4 inch over and now at 1 degree upright from Titleist specs. The thing is Club Champion has me at 1.5 degrees flat. This is where things might of went haywire. 

 

Just glad to be able to go home from the course feeling like I'm making progress again.

 

Thanks for the help!

They might have put u in a flat bend to fix a hook. That can help a player that isnt changing or working on their swing, but since you are, probably should get refit to match the new address and plane.

Edited April 15, 2023 by slytown

[Valtiel]

On 4/14/2023 at 7:05 PM, Shinogolf said:

No worries. I appreciate your help. This standing farther away from the ball than ideal might be from me trying match the lie angle of the clubs to my swing. They are on the flat side. I played today trying to stand closer to the ball and couldn't handle it. After the round I moved the wedges, 5 and 8 iron 1 degree upright. Went back to the course and was able to stand closer without the lie angle looking flat and looking like they were pointing right. Started to flush the ball with a good in to out move that felt familiar to when I was ball striking really well. I'm thinking the flatter lie angles was forcing a more out to in path to match the angle. Had me making manipulations like swiping across the ball to match the lie angle. 

 

Now I feel like I can try to hit the inside of the ball and it seems to be matching up well. Shots were online and misses were better understood. My finish was in balance as well. 

 

Rambo's swing had me thinking about his equipment setup. He stands really close to the ball. His equipment reflects that. His irons are 3/4 an inch over standard and 1 upright. Those clubs must look very upright! Thus he needs to stand more upright and closer to the ball at address.

 

I'm 6 feet tall with a longer torso. I play 1/4 inch over and now at 1 degree upright from Titleist specs. The thing is Club Champion has me at 1.5 degrees flat. This is where things might of went haywire. 

 

Just glad to be able to go home from the course feeling like I'm making progress again.

 

Thanks for the help!

Yeah I totally understand re: lie angle. I hate seeing irons too flat and find myself messing with address position stuff to get them to sit "right" as well, so definitely continue tinkering there. Lie angles a couple degrees +/- won't have a big impact on ball flight and if you're more comfortable over the ball then that is only a benefit. 

Regarding pro setups, there are tons of high level players with things set very upright. Tiger, Morikawa, and Scott all have their fairway woods set several degrees upright. Rahm as you mentioned has his irons bent upright, DJ even moreso. It's all about what fits your swing and your eyes.