Nippon Modus 120TX vs. ProjectX 6.5/7.0 vs. Nippon Modus 130X

[SoonerBoomer]

I know this topic and thread is somewhere already, but I am at work and wanted to roughly and quickly get this up and running.  I am a 94-96 SS with 6-Iron, 115 with driver.  I currently have Project X6.5, I hit them too high and spin too much. Have tried Nippon 130X and they feel like butter but the dispersion is awful at times, constantly overdrawing or staying out right.  I recently saw an article on Exact Golf website stating: "The bend profile of the Project X is quite interesting and roughly comparable to the Nippon Modus 3 120. The end of the grip is relatively soft and becomes stiffer as the grip progresses, in the middle very soft and in the tip stiffer again. Exactly this stiff tip is decisive for the profile with low spin and low trajectory."  

 

I am thinking about going into Nippon 120TX or Project X 7.0 to lower my spin. Any suggestions or advice on which shafts are good for me? Thank you all for your time and information!

Edited May 11, 2023 by SoonerBoomer

[Rosco1216]

No going to make a lot of difference. Look at the ball first and loft being delivered. 

[SoonerBoomer]

16 minutes ago, Rosco1216 said:

No going to make a lot of difference. Look at the ball first and loft being delivered. 

I use ProV1, Srixon ZV, and TP5 mostly.  
attack angle is around 2.5 degrees

club path around 7 degrees 

launch angle  around 16 degrees

Edited May 10, 2023 by SoonerBoomer

[Rosco1216]

6 minutes ago, SoonerBoomer said:

I use ProV1, Srixon ZV, and TP5 mostly.  
attack angle is around 2.5 degrees

club path around 7 degrees 

launch angle  around 16 degrees

Around those with what club?

[SoonerBoomer]

1 hour ago, Rosco1216 said:

Around those with what club?

Project X 6.5 Srixon Z Forged

[SoonerBoomer]

2 minutes ago, SoonerBoomer said:

Project X 6.5 Srixon Z Forged

Also Titleist 716 Nippon 130x

[Rosco1216]

Just now, SoonerBoomer said:

Project X 6.5 Srixon Z Forged

Your aoa must be -2.5*, not 2.5* with an iron and should be a little lower actually so you’re probably delivering a lot of loft at impact and/or not covering the ball. Launch of 16* with what? 6i? 9i? Either way, that’s not “high” unless it’s for maybe a 3/4 iron. 
 

Point being..a shaft change from PX6.5 to 7.0 or 120tx isn’t going to change much of anything in terms of your launch and spin.  If you feel you’re launching/spinning too much try and less spinnier ball and work to deliver less loft at impact. 

[SoonerBoomer]

8 minutes ago, Rosco1216 said:

Your aoa must be -2.5*, not 2.5* with an iron and should be a little lower actually so you’re probably delivering a lot of loft at impact and/or not covering the ball. Launch of 16* with what? 6i? 9i? Either way, that’s not “high” unless it’s for maybe a 3/4 iron. 
 

Point being..a shaft change from PX6.5 to 7.0 or 120tx isn’t going to change much of anything in terms of your launch and spin.  If you feel you’re launching/spinning too much try and less spinnier ball and work to deliver less loft at impact. 

Aoa meaning atack angle? Yes it’s around -2.5.  Face to path is around -6/-7. With 6 iron spinning 6500 with pro v1 (“a low spin ball”).  16 degrees of loft is a little high 14 to 12 degrees is what I believe a 6 iron should be for me.
 

Would Nippon 120TX help with dispersion and lower ball flight? Or should I try Project X 7.0?

Edited May 10, 2023 by SoonerBoomer

[Rosco1216]

5 minutes ago, SoonerBoomer said:

Aoa meaning atack angle? Yes it’s around -2.5.  Face to path is around -6/-7. With 6 iron spinning 6500 with pro v1 (“a low spin ball”).  16 degrees of loft is a little high 14 is what I believe a 6 iron should be for me.
 

Would Nippon 120TX help with dispersion and lower ball flight? Or should I try Project X 7.0?

No, it’s not the shaft.  You’re spinning it like that because of a severely outside-in path of negative 6-7*. That is a swipey cut ball flight. You are swiping across it with an open club face. 

Edited May 10, 2023 by Rosco1216

[SoonerBoomer]

5 minutes ago, Rosco1216 said:

No, it’s not the shaft.  You’re spinning it like that because of a severely outside-in path of negative 6-7*. That is a swipey cut ball flight. You are swiping across it with an open club face. 

You mean the shaft is affecting how I deliver the club face….? 😂.  My ball flight is usually a slight draw. And also those numbers are from an inside fitting off artificial turf which usually is off by a few degrees. Natural turf numbers are probably better and different. Don’t have the tech to do it outside

Edited May 10, 2023 by SoonerBoomer

[SoonerBoomer]

Here is another way about this conversation is this quote from a website true…

 

"The bend profile of the Project X is quite interesting and roughly comparable to the Nippon Modus 3 120. The end of the grip is relatively soft and becomes stiffer as the grip progresses, in the middle very soft and in the tip stiffer again. Exactly this stiff tip is decisive for the profile with low spin and low trajectory." 

[Rosco1216]

1 minute ago, SoonerBoomer said:

You mean the shaft is affecting how I deliver the club face….? 😂.  My ball flight is usually a slight draw. And also those numbers are from an inside fitting off artificial turf which usually is off by a few degrees. Natural turf numbers are probably better and different. Don’t have the tech to do it outside

Haha, this is why little tidbits of information don’t work for seeking advice.  Gotta give the entire picture and information upfront. Now that we have a better idea…it’s still not the shaft. If all you’re going off of is what the spin numbers were showing from an indoor fitting, artificial turf spins more with irons. 
 

Regardless, changing shafts won’t change much of anything with your launch and spin.

 

[SoonerBoomer]

9 minutes ago, Rosco1216 said:

Haha, this is why little tidbits of information don’t work for seeking advice.  Gotta give the entire picture and information upfront. Now that we have a better idea…it’s still not the shaft. If all you’re going off of is what the spin numbers were showing from an indoor fitting, artificial turf spins more with irons. 
 

Regardless, changing shafts won’t change much of anything with your launch and spin.

 

What do you know about shaft profiles of Project X compared to Modus 130X and 120TX?

[SoonerBoomer]

17 minutes ago, Rosco1216 said:

Haha, this is why little tidbits of information don’t work for seeking advice.  Gotta give the entire picture and information upfront. Now that we have a better idea…it’s still not the shaft. If all you’re going off of is what the spin numbers were showing from an indoor fitting, artificial turf spins more with irons. 
 

Regardless, changing shafts won’t change much of anything with your launch and spin.

 

I’m basing it off of what I see outdoors. Ball gets stuck solid, slight draw and drops.  With the modus 130x I hit them a little better and further but still spins a lot and dispersion is not great.

[Jayjay_theweim_guy]

1 hour ago, Rosco1216 said:

Haha, this is why little tidbits of information don’t work for seeking advice.  Gotta give the entire picture and information upfront. Now that we have a better idea…it’s still not the shaft. If all you’re going off of is what the spin numbers were showing from an indoor fitting, artificial turf spins more with irons. 
 

Regardless, changing shafts won’t change much of anything with your launch and spin.

 

[Emphasis added.]

 

I'd thought the opposite was true?  That irons launched higher, but spun less, off mats, and launched lower, but spun more, with grass?

 

Srixon lists that 6-iron as having a 28° loft, FWIW.  6500 does seem a skosh high, especially off turf if my understanding is correct.  

 

OP, just so we're comparing apples to apples:  you have a path that's +6-7°, so in to out, but a club face closed 6-7° to that path?  So a negative face to path, but a strongly in-to-out path?

 

Not a path that I would think for someone applying a lot of dynamic loft to the ball, but I'm sure it's possible.  

 

AIUI, the Modus 3 130 is supposed to be absurdly stiff for its rating.  Maybe try an S in it?  Or go to something like PX LS 6.5?

[SoonerBoomer]

10 minutes ago, Jayjay_theweim_guy said:

[Emphasis added.]

 

I'd thought the opposite was true?  That irons launched higher, but spun less, off mats, and launched lower, but spun more, with grass?

 

Srixon lists that 6-iron as having a 28° loft, FWIW.  6500 does seem a skosh high, especially off turf if my understanding is correct.  

 

OP, just so we're comparing apples to apples:  you have a path that's +6-7°, so in to out, but a club face closed 6-7° to that path?  So a negative face to path, but a strongly in-to-out path?

 

Not a path that I would think for someone applying a lot of dynamic loft to the ball, but I'm sure it's possible.  

 

AIUI, the Modus 3 130 is supposed to be absurdly stiff for its rating.  Maybe try an S in it?  Or go to something like PX LS 6.5?

Mind you the numbers are off mats so the numbers can be skewed. Or my swing changed and I am delivering a more square club face outside.  130x I can hit well but either overdraw or hit it straight.  I have looked at LS but I’ve seen 7.0 could also be a good shaft.  Recently my irons have been going more straight (possibly a better tempo, where I might have been over swinging in the fitting bay).  Seeing that article I thought it was a little absurd because Modus tends to be softer, but if they had a same profile as PX then the 120TX might be a great fit for me.

Edited May 10, 2023 by SoonerBoomer

[Valtiel]

3 hours ago, SoonerBoomer said:

Here is another way about this conversation is this quote from a website true…

 

"The bend profile of the Project X is quite interesting and roughly comparable to the Nippon Modus 3 120. The end of the grip is relatively soft and becomes stiffer as the grip progresses, in the middle very soft and in the tip stiffer again. Exactly this stiff tip is decisive for the profile with low spin and low trajectory." 

 

3 hours ago, SoonerBoomer said:

What do you know about shaft profiles of Project X compared to Modus 130X and 120TX?

The above description of the Project X vs. Modus 120 isn't anywhere near accurate from any profiles I have seen. The Modus is WAY softer in the midsection, deliberately so as it is a radical profile with intentionally thinner walls in the midsection to create a more pronounced hinge. The Project X Rifle is stiff everywhere and always has been.

@Rosco1216 Is right, this isn't a shaft problem, at least not directly. No one that spins something as stiff as a PX 6.5 will benefit from anything "lower spin". If you're delivering the club from 6-7* from the inside with a 6i, which is a little on the extreme side, than I guarantee that you're flipping and adding loft through impact to some degree. That is the only way to generate high spin with an inside delivery and your options are to either strengthen the lofts of your clubs to reduce launch and spin or address the delivery issue causing them. A shaft *can* change these for you a bit, but that is entirely player dependent and isn't something that can be reliably predicted. If you were already using a softer shaft then an easy recommendation would be to try something like you're using now, but you're already using one of the stiffest designs. 

[SoonerBoomer]

8 minutes ago, Valtiel said:

 

The above description of the Project X vs. Modus 120 isn't anywhere near accurate from any profiles I have seen. The Modus is WAY softer in the midsection, deliberately so as it is a radical profile with intentionally thinner walls in the midsection to create a more pronounced hinge. The Project X Rifle is stiff everywhere and always has been.

@Rosco1216 Is right, this isn't a shaft problem, at least not directly. No one that spins something as stiff as a PX 6.5 will benefit from anything "lower spin". If you're delivering the club from 6-7* from the inside with a 6i, which is a little on the extreme side, than I guarantee that you're flipping and adding loft through impact to some degree. That is the only way to generate high spin with an inside delivery and your options are to either strengthen the lofts of your clubs to reduce launch and spin or address the delivery issue causing them. A shaft *can* change these for you a bit, but that is entirely player dependent and isn't something that can be reliably predicted. If you were already using a softer shaft then an easy recommendation would be to try something like you're using now, but you're already using one of the stiffest designs. 

 

-6 to -3 face to path not plus.  And wouldn’t 7.0 be the stiffest design out there?

Edited May 10, 2023 by SoonerBoomer

[SoonerBoomer]

20 minutes ago, Valtiel said:

 

The above description of the Project X vs. Modus 120 isn't anywhere near accurate from any profiles I have seen. The Modus is WAY softer in the midsection, deliberately so as it is a radical profile with intentionally thinner walls in the midsection to create a more pronounced hinge. The Project X Rifle is stiff everywhere and always has been.

@Rosco1216 Is right, this isn't a shaft problem, at least not directly. No one that spins something as stiff as a PX 6.5 will benefit from anything "lower spin". If you're delivering the club from 6-7* from the inside with a 6i, which is a little on the extreme side, than I guarantee that you're flipping and adding loft through impact to some degree. That is the only way to generate high spin with an inside delivery and your options are to either strengthen the lofts of your clubs to reduce launch and spin or address the delivery issue causing them. A shaft *can* change these for you a bit, but that is entirely player dependent and isn't something that can be reliably predicted. If you were already using a softer shaft then an easy recommendation would be to try something like you're using now, but you're already using one of the stiffest designs. 

Rosco is actually incorrect. Shafts play a huge part in how one delivers a club at impact.  A swing resembling Rory McCilroy or max Homa needs a lot of linear force to swing the club and the twisting of the shaft affects how the ball is struck….

[Valtiel]

25 minutes ago, SoonerBoomer said:

No matter what Rosco or others think shafts make a difference on how the club is delivered.
 

-6 to -3 face to path not plus.  And wouldn’t 7.0 be the stiffest design out there?

It does, but as I said that is player dependent AND not a reliable way to manipulate spin. There is minimal difference between the PX6.5 and PX7.0 from a performance standpoint, the 7.0 is just 5g heavier and only fractionally stiffer. It won't change your spin issue *unless* that extra weight for some reason has an impact on your delivery, which is unlikely given the small amount. 

Negative face to path has always been associated with being from the outside and positive from the inside, that is the Trackman standard anyway. The only way to consistently produce excessive spin when swinging from the inside (which requires a face that is slightly closed to the path to hit draws) is to be delivering too much loft (lack of forward shaft lean). The only ways for a shaft to cause less delivered loft is for it to impact your delivery which can't be predicted by looking at shaft specs since it relies on how you react to the feel of it, or for it to physically produce less forward deflection which you aren't going to find anything that does that measurably less than the PX6.5, hence the comments about you barking up the wrong tree here. 

It is still worth experimenting with shafts, BUT for the purpose of suiting your feel/release etc. If the shaft that feels the best and/or produced the tightest dispersion still spins too much then it is a swing issue, not an equipment one. 

Edited May 10, 2023 by Valtiel

[SoonerBoomer]

9 minutes ago, Valtiel said:

It does, but as I said that is player dependent AND not a reliable way to manipulate spin. There is minimal difference between the PX6.5 and PX7.0 from a performance standpoint, the 7.0 is just 5g heavier and only fractionally stiffer. It won't change your spin issue *unless* that extra weight for some reason has an impact on your delivery, which is unlikely given the small amount. 

Negative face to path has always been associated with being from the outside and positive from the inside, that is the Trackman standard anyway. The only way to consistently produce excessive spin when swinging from the inside (which requires a face that is slightly closed to the path to hit draws) is to be delivering too much loft (lack of forward shaft lean). The only ways for a shaft to cause less delivered loft is for it to impact your delivery which can't be predicted by looking at shaft specs since it relies on how you react to the feel of it, or for it to physically produce less forward deflection which you aren't going to find anything that does that measurably less than the PX6.5, hence the comments about you barking up the wrong tree here. 

It is still worth experimenting with shafts, BUT for the purpose of suiting your feel/release etc. If the shaft that feels the best and/or produced the tightest dispersion still spins too much then it is a swing issue, not an equipment one. 

Valid points although no one has yet to give a difference between 120 TX and PX 6.5/7.0…. Or other alternatives.

[Rosco1216]

Obviously a shaft can change how a club is delivered. As we’ve said many times..just changing shafts isn’t going to miraculously bring your launch and spin down unless it just completely changes how you deliver the club. A 6.5 or 7 or tx are similar flex and weights, they aren’t going to change how you deliver the club much at all.   Sure you can change but you’re not spinning the 6.5 too much because you just need a stiffer shaft.  You’re spinning the 6.5 because you’re delivering too much loft, at a severe out to in path on indoor turf which will read higher in spin than outside of grass. 
 

[Rosco1216]

2 minutes ago, SoonerBoomer said:

Valid points although no one has yet to give a difference between 120 TX and PX 6.5/7.0…. Or other alternatives.

Dude..if you want the specific differences in the shafts you should google it. We have told you multiple times in multiple ways that simply changing to one of those shafts isn’t going to directly bring your launch and spin down just because it’s stiffer. 

[Valtiel]

8 minutes ago, SoonerBoomer said:

Valid points although no one has yet to give a difference between 120 TX and PX 6.5/7.0…. Or other alternatives.

Here is a relevant lineup for that. The red is the Modus, the lighter blue is the PX LZ, and the darker blue is the PX Rifle. They all start from a similar location however we see the PX Rifle retaining way more stiffness throughout the profile. The Modus is technically a little stiffer in the very end of the tip section, so it would be worth trying if for no other reason than to see if something very different than what you have have produces meaningfully different results, especially since you've tried the Modus 130 which has a way softer tip and an even stiffer mid section, the conceptual opposite to the 120:



Those three models represent a very wide range of styles, about the widest you can have with steel construction, so the Modus 120 makes sense to try if for no other reason than to cover all your bases. But again, not with any degree of spin manipulation in mind.
 

Edited May 10, 2023 by Valtiel

[SoonerBoomer]

2 minutes ago, Valtiel said:

Here is a relevant lineup for that. The red is the Modus, the lighter blue is the PX LZ, and the darker blue is the PX Rifle. They all start from a similar location however we see the PX Rifle retaining way more stiffness throughout the profile. The Modus is technically a little stiffer in the very end of the tip section, so it would be worth trying if for no other reason than to see if something very different than what you have have produces meaningfully different results, especially since you've tried the Modus 130 which has a way softer tip and an even stiffer mid section:



Those three models represent a very wide range of styles, so the Modus 120 makes sense to try if for no other reason than to cover all your bases. But again, not with any degree of spin manipulation in mind.
 

Thank you for that information. This is helpful.

[SoonerBoomer]

11 hours ago, Rosco1216 said:

Dude..if you want the specific differences in the shafts you should google it. We have told you multiple times in multiple ways that simply changing to one of those shafts isn’t going to directly bring your launch and spin down just because it’s stiffer. 

Specific differences and real word differences are on different spectrums “dude”. Your common sense might be lacking or you have minimal knowledge on shafts and how they can affect club faces and strike positions, dude.

[SoonerBoomer]

On 5/10/2023 at 7:29 PM, Valtiel said:

Here is a relevant lineup for that. The red is the Modus, the lighter blue is the PX LZ, and the darker blue is the PX Rifle. They all start from a similar location however we see the PX Rifle retaining way more stiffness throughout the profile. The Modus is technically a little stiffer in the very end of the tip section, so it would be worth trying if for no other reason than to see if something very different than what you have have produces meaningfully different results, especially since you've tried the Modus 130 which has a way softer tip and an even stiffer mid section, the conceptual opposite to the 120:



Those three models represent a very wide range of styles, about the widest you can have with steel construction, so the Modus 120 makes sense to try if for no other reason than to cover all your bases. But again, not with any degree of spin manipulation in mind.
 

This is actually incorrect because this is only showing one profile rather than a full profile this is a linear profile