Macgregor Tourney Persimmon Driver

[Murrsd]

Hello,

I picked up this driver at a local thrift shop but it appears to look different than the other ones I have seen on the forum because the face has no screws in it and it is red. Anybody know any information about this particular club or why it would look different than the other MacGregors? Any info would be appreciated.

 

Steve

[Stephen8802]

That is a 1958 PT1W Velocitized 2 wood that has been refinished. It has the original shaft, but a decal has replaced (or been put over) the original top stamp and the insert has been replaced with a poured epoxy insert, probably in the 1970s when poured epoxy inserts were popular.

 

That insert was originally a Veloctized insert, which was a fiber insert in an eye-o-matic pattern, three fiber dowels going through the insert and into the head (one large dowel in the middle and two smaller dowels on either side), and a SEOM notch. I don't have a pic of that insert, but attached are some RT2W inserts from the same year to give you an idea of what they looked like.

 

If the original insert had been damaged, it would extremely difficult for many refinishers to replicate the original insert, especially with the SEOM notch. To pull that off would take skill and a lot of time, and a poured epoxy insert would be a lot easier to create. My guess is that either the refinisher didn't have the skill or the owner cared more about getting it into play than keeping it authentic and went for the easier, cheaper option.

 

It's a nice club, and probably plays just as well as if it had be refinished with more care, but it's still too bad they took the cheap way out.

[Foozle]

28 minutes ago, Murrsd said:

Hello,

I picked up this driver at a local thrift shop but it appears to look different than the other ones I have seen on the forum because the face has no screws in it and it is red. Anybody know any information about this particular club or why it would look different than the other MacGregors? Any info would be appreciated.

 

Steve

Got me scratching my head but MacGregors often do!

It purports to be a '58 or '59 PT1W - as it has the super eye o matic notch which disappeared in the '60 model but the insert is definitely a replacement as it should be eye o matic with firing pin. The insert looks like poured epoxy as the light shows shimmers and the scoring lines are not clean cut - that would explain the lack of screws.

What puzzles me more is whether the head is original or later reissue?

It has a lead back weight which I don't think I have seen on remakes and the sole plate and engraving look correct to my eye. Also toe stamping rather than engraved on the plate.

On the doubts side  the crown markings look like decals and at that age I would have expected stampings. The shaft label also looks wrong for that era - pretty sure all my Propel labels are narrower. Grip obviously not from the '50's but you would expect replacement. 

I have not seen the grain in that orientation as the U grain is set at close to 3 o'clock - I would expect MacGregors of that vintage to be more fastidiously set at closer to 12 o'clock.

All in all a curiosity but definitely refinished including a replacement insert.

Interested in the views of the Mac guru's here?

[Foozle]

3 minutes ago, Stephen8802 said:

That is a 1958 PT1W Velocitized 2 wood that has been refinished. It has the original shaft, but a decal has replaced (or been put over) the original top stamp and the insert has been replaced with a poured epoxy insert, probably in the 1970s when poured epoxy inserts were popular.

 

That insert was originally a Veloctized insert, which was a fiber insert in an eye-o-matic pattern, three fiber dowels going through the insert and into the head (one large dowel in the middle and two smaller dowels on either side), and a SEOM notch. I don't have a pic of that insert, but attached are some RT2W inserts from the same year to give you an idea of what they looked like.

 

If the original insert had been damaged, it would extremely difficult for many refinishers to replicate the original insert, especially with the SEOM notch. To pull that off would take skill and a lot of time, and a poured epoxy insert would be a lot easier to create. My guess is that either the refinisher didn't have the skill or the owner cared more about getting it into play than keeping it authentic and went for the easier, cheaper option.

 

It's a nice club, and probably plays just as well as if it had be refinished with more care, but it's still too bad they took the cheap way out.

Should have waited 5 mins for your expert input! Pleased that at least some of my summations were correct!

[Stephen8802]

1 minute ago, Foozle said:

Should have waited 5 mins for your expert input! Pleased that at least some of my summations were correct!

This period is particularly tricky because of all the variations between models and the two years Velocitized clubs were produced. The Velocitized insert with a notch was a one year insert, by 1959 the insert was basically the same but the notch was gone. The shaft label is correct, and just to be sure, I just grabbed the '58 Armour behind me an looked at the size of the label.

 

The interesting thing about that label is that it is replicated the one-year C shaft label that I've only seen on M85 SEOMs and TP SEOMs. That label was the traditional skinny label, but put over exposed copper, which was under all of the chrome but masked off and exposed when the chrome was applied...it's the coolest shaft Macgregor ever did. I'm not sure why the went from the exposed copper to a decal, but I'm guessing the extra step of masking the shaft added too much cost and it was cheaper to replicate the effect with a decal.

 

Attached are two pictures of TP SEOM shafts with that exposed copper, the first is from a club I've had since 1983 and the second was a fairway wood set I picked up a few years ago, because, well these are cool clubs. I'm still looking for a driver to fill out that fairway wood set, but I'll find it eventually. My original has a cool patina, but the one I picked up a few years ago has more of a coppery look.

[Murrsd]

Thank you so much for that information!!!  Not bad for the $2 that I paid for the club.   I have someone possibly wanting to buy my 1957 Ben Hogan persimmons that were my grandfathers (I don’t really have any idea how much to ask for them) and had thought of throwing in the Macgregor as well.  Maybe not🤪

 

Any idea on the value of the Macgregor?

[Murrsd]

5 hours ago, Stephen8802 said:

This period is particularly tricky because of all the variations between models and the two years Velocitized clubs were produced. The Velocitized insert with a notch was a one year insert, by 1959 the insert was basically the same but the notch was gone. The shaft label is correct, and just to be sure, I just grabbed the '58 Armour behind me an looked at the size of the label.

 

The interesting thing about that label is that it is replicated the one-year C shaft label that I've only seen on M85 SEOMs and TP SEOMs. That label was the traditional skinny label, but put over exposed copper, which was under all of the chrome but masked off and exposed when the chrome was applied...it's the coolest shaft Macgregor ever did. I'm not sure why the went from the exposed copper to a decal, but I'm guessing the extra step of masking the shaft added too much cost and it was cheaper to replicate the effect with a decal.

 

Attached are two pictures of TP SEOM shafts with that exposed copper, the first is from a club I've had since 1983 and the second was a fairway wood set I picked up a few years ago, because, well these are cool clubs. I'm still looking for a driver to fill out that fairway wood set, but I'll find it eventually. My original has a cool patina, but the one I picked up a few years ago has more of a coppery look.

Thank you Stephen for responding in such depth.  I now have a new appreciation for that driver which I knew nothing about.   It’s interesting that it was made about the same time as my grandfather’s clubs - like it found me to become a part of his set.  Now there is a 1,2,3,4,5 in my persimmon woods.  Kind of rethinking selling them.  
 

Thanks again!