Bunker sand outside of bunker

[jjinsa]

My ball came to rest about 2” outside of a bunker, but the bunker was poorly maintained and there was sand splashed out the bunker, relatively deep, but outside the edge of the bunker. My ball was on this sand. 
 

what is the ruling? Free drop? 
 

due to the poorly maintained sand, it was nearly unplayable. 

[Newby]

1 hour ago, jjinsa said:

My ball came to rest about 2” outside of a bunker, but the bunker was poorly maintained and there was sand splashed out the bunker, relatively deep, but outside the edge of the bunker. My ball was on this sand. 
 

what is the ruling? Free drop? 
 

due to the poorly maintained sand, it was nearly unplayable. 

"My ball was on this sand. but outside the edge of the bunker."

So no.

 

Sand and Loose Soil are not Loose Impediments so you can't even move the sand.

 

Some may argue that the area should have been marked as GUR. It wasn't, so it isn't.

Edited June 13, 2023 by Newby

[Mr. Bean]

But if you are playing in the USGA jurisdiction you may declare that area as GUR as you and your group are allowed to form your own Committee.

 

Of course, that you cannot do in a formal competition but any time other.

[Newby]

3 minutes ago, Mr. Bean said:

But if you are playing in the USGA jurisdiction you may declare that area as GUR as you and your group are allowed to form your own Committee.

 

Of course, that you cannot do in a formal competition but any time other.

Ah yes! Bandit land.

[jjinsa]

12 hours ago, Mr. Bean said:

But if you are playing in the USGA jurisdiction you may declare that area as GUR as you and your group are allowed to form your own Committee.

 

Of course, that you cannot do in a formal competition but any time other.

I was playing by myself, and my group (me) decided it was GUR and took relief. Haha.  If it was semi playable I would have played it, but it was almost unplayable.

[Rocky Ball-boa]

Is this post tongue in cheek, or a satirical reference to some recent event that I've missed? I don't get it.

[hoselrocket256]

definitely seems satirical, I don't get it either.

[br61]

It happened to me couple years ago in a city championship. My ball landed in a sandy area just outside of bunker's edge, where the bunker raker enters the bunker to rake it. Terrible lie in a depression. Since that area wasn't marked as GUR and my playing partners confirmed my suspicion so I played it as it lies. The result wasn't pretty.

[Newby]

1 hour ago, br61 said:

It happened to me couple years ago in a city championship. My ball landed in a sandy area just outside of bunker's edge, where the bunker raker enters the bunker to rake it. Terrible lie in a depression. Since that area wasn't marked as GUR and my playing partners confirmed my suspicion so I played it as it lies. The result wasn't pretty.

goodonyer

[DaveLeeNC]

This is going to be quite relevant in about a year when the US Open is played on Pinehurst No. 2. The image below (hole #18) happens all the time where there are 'bunkers' which are not surrounded by grass. The boundary of the 'bunker' is kind of ambiguous (see red arrow). The club members for casual play typically play any bunker surrounded by grass as a bunker and the upper right 'bunker' in the image below would be a waste area. So two bunkers and a waste area for casual play in the image below. 

 

I do not believe that the USGA is following this 'rule' for the US Open next year. 

 

dave

 

 

Edited June 20, 2023 by DaveLeeNC

[Newby]

Presumably the area bottom right is also a 'waste area'? 

[DaveLeeNC]

16 minutes ago, Newby said:

Presumably the area bottom right is also a 'waste area'? 

Yes - although during the US Open it will be grandstands 🙂

 

dave

 

[davep043]

2 hours ago, DaveLeeNC said:

This is going to be quite relevant in about a year when the US Open is played on Pinehurst No. 2. The image below (hole #18) happens all the time where there are 'bunkers' which are not surrounded by grass. The boundary of the 'bunker' is kind of ambiguous (see red arrow). The club members for casual play typically play any bunker surrounded by grass as a bunker and the upper right 'bunker' in the image below would be a waste area. So two bunkers and a waste area for casual play in the image below. 

 

I do not believe that the USGA is following this 'rule' for the US Open next year. 

 

dave

 

 

In 2014 I saw officials being instructed, during practice rounds, as to exactly where the limits of the bunkers were.  In most, there was a reasonably well defined limit with at least a tiny bit of turf or rootmat.  10 years later I'm sure conditions will have evolved, I'll be interested to see how it works out.  I'll be there as a volunteer hole marshall, not sure which hole at this stage.

[SNIPERBBB]

On 6/14/2023 at 4:24 AM, Rocky Ball-boa said:

Is this post tongue in cheek, or a satirical reference to some recent event that I've missed? I don't get it.

Been a while since the last event at whistling straits 

[DaveLeeNC]

38 minutes ago, davep043 said:

In 2014 I saw officials being instructed, during practice rounds, as to exactly where the limits of the bunkers were.  In most, there was a reasonably well defined limit with at least a tiny bit of turf or rootmat.  10 years later I'm sure conditions will have evolved, I'll be interested to see how it works out.  I'll be there as a volunteer hole marshall, not sure which hole at this stage.

 

There is also SOMETIMES a ridge that provides a reasonable definition of an edge.  There were no issues that I recall in 2014 so hopefully that will not change in 2024. 

 

dave

[jjinsa]

18 hours ago, hoselrocket256 said:

definitely seems satirical, I don't get it either.

Nope was genuine.  Was wondering what the rule was since I had a near unplayable lie, because someone didn't clean up their mess.  But I can see the answer is "tough luck"