Are my hands behind my body? I cant figure it out!

[skim4]

Hello Golfers!  I am at my daily posting limit but still reading the discussion. If I haven't replied that is why! Thank you to all that are helping :).

 

Ive added two new videos working on the consensus suggestion of shifting to the right and extending my spine correctly. They are titled NEW. 8 iron and driver

 

I got back into golf this summer after playing like once a year for the last 15 years. 

I'm trying to really get back into it! But I can't figure out what issues to work on first! 

 

My follow through is a disaster with my left arm folding very quickly.

My hips are all over the place but I cant figure out if I'm too fast or too slow.

I also think  my hands club are way behind my body. But I usually swing on plane. 

 

If I have no swing thoughts on the course my swing is a disaster with many OB balls.

If my swing thought it to fire my hips at the target and let my hands lag my hips then I can shoot in the 70s. But this swing thought seems to be just giving in to my problems? I dunno! 

My bad shots are a wide open club face at impact resulting in a huge block slice or I flip my hand's too fast and hit some pretty mean hooks. 

 

I uploaded 3 videos. 2 DTLs and one face on.

 

If anyone with any tips could help me out that would be greatly appreciated thanks! 

 

IMG-8956.MOVIMG-8985.MOVIMG-8980.MOV

NEW FACE ON DRIVER.MOVNEW FACE ON 8 iron.MOV

Edited August 14, 2023 by skim4

[RoyalTroon]

Move ball forward, upper needs more extension on the back swing.

[skim4]

Thanks Royal Troon!

Do you mean my upper body needs to turn more? 

And for sure on the ball position! 

[Golf_Goof]

I think there's a popular term for this here on the forum,,,

 

[skim4]

3 minutes ago, Golf_Goof said:

I think there's a popular term for this here on the forum,,,

 

Death? Haha

[PracticeSwinger]

Just now, skim4 said:

Death? Haha

Any tutu left in large size? Just search for 68 ballerina in here

[glk]

Need to shift a bit to the right to start the motion and then extend your torso in the backswing - you are turning the upper body over the lower and leaning too much away from the target - keeps pressure back and doesn't allow for a full backswing.

 

You need to work on the justin rose drills - this drill is good for folks that use the lower body too much relative to the upper body in the downswing - which is you - there is a spectrum of folks that use the lower more active vs the upper and vice versa - for folks that over use the lower the JR drill is good - folks that are the opposite and over use the upper need to do drills where they feel like they leave the arms up and rotate the body (yeah I know blasphemy).

 

Very similar to you - having the intent to get the right shoulder over the trail leg at the top of the backswing can work.

https://www.instagram.com/p/BTwfkhKFhhP/

 

 

JR drill 

https://www.instagram.com/p/CYJh_fDPYnZ/?hl=en

 

This is going to take time - really depends on how good your body control is but the extending in the backswing allows the body to be better prepared for the downswing.

[glk]

Here is another good drill involving throwing a ball over your right shoulder.    I would note that if you do this drill then you may feel like you are doing stack and tilt - feels are individual but given how you move now it wouldn't surprise me if this is how this new motion would feel.

 

https://www.instagram.com/p/CDow8ZhD-pD/

Edited August 10, 2023 by glk

[Zitlow]

You have a very good swing. Take it for what it's worth, your spine should swing more like a pendulum with the bottom swinging vs a metronome with the top swinging. 

 

 

In other words, your COM should move slightly to the right so you can establish balance and support on your right hip. It's not a big move, just a slight move of the COM to shift your weight. 

 

He's not "power shifting", shifting his lower body to the left when he takes the club back. He's getting his weight behind the ball. 

 

 

 

[skim4]

16 minutes ago, glk said:

Here is another good drill involving throwing a ball over your right shoulder.    I would note that if you do this drill then you may feel like you are doing stack and tilt - feels are individual but given how you move now it wouldn't surprise me if this is how this new motion would feel.

 

https://www.instagram.com/p/CDow8ZhD-pD/

Thanks for taking the time with your analysis. Ill have to look this up and start working on it. I'm a little confused though. So my hips are not going over to my right side enough on the backswing? I can tell looking at my video that my hips not shifting to the right side causes my body to move awkwardly. Is this what you are referring to? 

[Golf_Goof]

27 minutes ago, skim4 said:

Death? Haha

I wouldn't go that far - you have a solid swing but arms do appear to lag a bit too much. 

[Golf_Goof]

I stumbled on to this guy's channel a while back. A mike Bender disciple apparently, who I don't know much about. What he demonstrates here is what you're after. Just turn on subtitles - it's a little bit broken English but you'll get the idea. I've been working more lately on staying closed and firing the arms first (ala JR drill) it's paying off. 

 

 

 

[MPStrat]

37 minutes ago, Golf_Goof said:

I think there's a popular term for this here on the forum,,,

 

I know what the popular term would be for this, but it would be an unhelpful and oversimplified 2d analysis. 
 

If his arms were more forward here, the swing would be non-functional. He is too far forward in relation to the ball because he did a stack and tilt/power shift backswing with no shift to the trail side before the club moves. The backswing put his body too far forward. 

 

Everything you see after that is a compensation and actually the best case scenario because his swing lacks this shift to the right. 

[skim4]

16 minutes ago, Zitlow said:

You have a very good swing. Take it for what it's worth, your spine should swing more like a pendulum with the bottom swinging vs a metronome with the top swinging. 

 

 

In other words, your COM should move slightly to the right so you can establish balance and support on your right hip. It's not a big move, just a slight move of the COM to shift your weight. 

 

He's not "power shifting", shifting his lower body to the left when he takes the club back. He's getting his weight behind the ball. 

 

 

 

Thank you for taking the time to analyze my swing! I think I understand what youre saying. 

I am doing the opposite of what needs to be done. My hips need to move more laterally so my upper body stays more centered? I like what you said about the pendulum. 

[glk]

27 minutes ago, skim4 said:

Thanks for taking the time with your analysis. Ill have to look this up and start working on it. I'm a little confused though. So my hips are not going over to my right side enough on the backswing? I can tell looking at my video that my hips not shifting to the right side causes my body to move awkwardly. Is this what you are referring to? 

No.   You don't shift the entire body to the right to start the swing - this shift is only about an inch - so you leave your hips in place then turn you upper body to the right (see photo posted by zitlow or the instagram from carraher i posted) - this puts you in a poor position to shift back to the left - so you overuse the lower body in the early downswing which leaves the arms too far behind.     the golf motion is a shift,turn,shift, turn with the middle turn/shift overlapped.    thinking of pulling a stick out of the ground to start the swing can result in the shift. - https://www.instagram.com/p/Cen48YwFXAJ/

 

Edited August 10, 2023 by glk

[MK7Golf21]

I'm going to be honest with you, you have a better swing than most who post on this forum. Definitely more rotation type swing and you don't EE which is key. I wouldn't be asking for advice on the internet. Your rotation is a strength that the people on this forum can't even do in a real swing but want to.

 

Like I said you do alot of good things, you take the club back on plane. In a nice position at the top etc. Did you work with an instructor in the past? This stuff doesn't come naturally.

 

I would work with an instructor who is more into rotational type swings to take advantage of what you naturally do. 

 

 

Edited August 10, 2023 by MK7Golf21

[MonteScheinblum]

It’s a backswing issue.  You’re not extending your spine properly in the backswing and you are adding excessive tilt away from the target as a result.

[MPStrat]

OP, although I completely agree that you stay in too much forward bend, if you take this golf swing as it is and simply add spine extension, you are looking at more of a stack and tilt pattern. I’ll just say, this isn’t my preference and I’ve known some really good players who lost their ability to hit driver once they went in this direction. I think this is a big reason your swing has so many good elements and you hit driver so poorly on the golf course. 
 

Before you do anything else, I would highly recommend that you learn to start the swing dynamically by shifting to the right before the hands take away the club. Beyond that there are some things that will need cleaned up and you will probably have to learn to not stay in so much forward bend, but IMO it has to start with the shift. 

 

[skim4]

Thanks to all who helped me out yesterday. The consensus was I need to shift to the right to start the swing and then extend my spine correctly. 

I've attached two new videos of me trying to do that.  I was wondering how these new swings looked? I am also a bad over corrector and had to catch myself over correcting when I played a lot back in the day, 

20 hours ago, MonteScheinblum said:

It’s a backswing issue.  You’re not extending your spine properly in the backswing and you are adding excessive tilt away from the target as a result.

 

[skim4]

19 hours ago, MPStrat said:

OP, although I completely agree that you stay in too much forward bend, if you take this golf swing as it is and simply add spine extension, you are looking at more of a stack and tilt pattern. I’ll just say, this isn’t my preference and I’ve known some really good players who lost their ability to hit driver once they went in this direction. I think this is a big reason your swing has so many good elements and you hit driver so poorly on the golf course. 
 

Before you do anything else, I would highly recommend that you learn to start the swing dynamically by shifting to the right before the hands take away the club. Beyond that there are some things that will need cleaned up and you will probably have to learn to not stay in so much forward bend, but IMO it has to start with the shift. 

 

Thanks for all the help MPStrat. I couldn't reply yesterday because I hit all my limits of posting. I tried out what you and others were saying yesterday on the range. How do the attached swings look? 

[skim4]

22 hours ago, MK7Golf21 said:

I'm going to be honest with you, you have a better swing than most who post on this forum. Definitely more rotation type swing and you don't EE which is key. I wouldn't be asking for advice on the internet. Your rotation is a strength that the people on this forum can't even do in a real swing but want to.

 

Like I said you do alot of good things, you take the club back on plane. In a nice position at the top etc. Did you work with an instructor in the past? This stuff doesn't come naturally.

 

I would work with an instructor who is more into rotational type swings to take advantage of what you naturally do. 

 

 

Hey! Thanks for the compliments! Yeah I worked with instructors in my teenage years. But I haven't in a long time. I def need to look into a good one in my area. I need to figure out how to find a good one! Thanks for taking your time to reply to my post! 

[skim4]

23 hours ago, glk said:

Here is another good drill involving throwing a ball over your right shoulder.    I would note that if you do this drill then you may feel like you are doing stack and tilt - feels are individual but given how you move now it wouldn't surprise me if this is how this new motion would feel.

 

https://www.instagram.com/p/CDow8ZhD-pD/

Hey GLK! Thanks for all the tips yesterday. I think I am understanding my issues. The throwing the ball feel really helps. How do these new swings look? It def feels awkward at the top but I think that's a good thing. 

[glk]

2 minutes ago, skim4 said:

Hey GLK! Thanks for all the tips yesterday. I think I am understanding my issues. The throwing the ball feel really helps. How do these new swings look? It def feels awkward at the top but I think that's a good thing. 

NEW FACE ON 8 iron (1).MOV NEW FACE ON DRIVER.MOV

night and day in a very good way.     yes, awkward typically means you are moving differently, so making a change - and this one is pretty noticeable.    Now your body is much better prepared by the time the backswing completes and you don't need to "fire" the hips.

[MPStrat]

23 minutes ago, skim4 said:

Thanks for all the help MPStrat. I couldn't reply yesterday because I hit all my limits of posting. I tried out what you and others were saying yesterday on the range. How do the attached swings look? 

Much better. With the iron swing, ball position should be more off the logo of your shirt. Camera angle isn’t perfect so I think it looks worse than it is but it’s a little too far back in your stance. 

[Elkhair]

Looks a lot better. It seems to me your weight is getting outside your lead foot in the downswing too much. Your lead foot should stay planted for pretty much the whole downswing IMO. 

[jonsnow]

On 8/10/2023 at 1:31 PM, MonteScheinblum said:

It’s a backswing issue.  You’re not extending your spine properly in the backswing and you are adding excessive tilt away from the target as a result.

Could someone expand on the idea of extending the spine in the backswing? I've read this many times on this forum but not sure exactly what it means & what is the reason for it.

Thanks...

[MK7Golf21]

Hogan is a good model to use, he is pretty standard imo. I never liked extended too much at the top but I think some do. 

 

[glk]

36 minutes ago, jonsnow said:

Could someone expand on the idea of extending the spine in the backswing? I've read this many times on this forum but not sure exactly what it means & what is the reason for it.

Thanks...

In the backswing one is in the process of standing up so there is some extension in the hips but also one needs extension in the thoracic spine - without the extension in the thoracic spine one will look like the photos of the op - lots of lean away from the target with the head moving well off the ball - this can be done to varying degrees and often accompanies the reverse K setup.

 

here is a less severe example with comments from iteach- the old right shoulder over the left foot intent.

 

 

[MonteScheinblum]

44 minutes ago, MK7Golf21 said:

Hogan is a good model to use, he is pretty standard imo. I never liked extended too much at the top but I think some do. 

 

That’s fine but he still has too much flexion.  Plus Hogans body is extended more than you think.  He’s 5-8”.  The OP is still well out of position compared to Hogan

Edited August 11, 2023 by MonteScheinblum

[glk]

49 minutes ago, jonsnow said:

Could someone expand on the idea of extending the spine in the backswing? I've read this many times on this forum but not sure exactly what it means & what is the reason for it.

Thanks...

Also it is important that the spine is aligned so the initial shift of the body to the right is important in this aspect.

The opposite situation can happen where the thoracic spine is extended but with out the shift the lumbar area and thoracic are not aligned - future back issues.    

 

 

This was from Dr Kwon's cert II class - note the hips to the right and thoracic spine extended but to the left - this is a brazilian golfer who's name I don't recall - later in the discussion it was noted that Ryan Palmer also has this in his swing motion.

 

Here is an example of alignment