Mizuno MP 14 vs MacGregor J.N. Muirfields

[RMach]

Hello vintage golf club experts. I have a question this evening that I hope you can help me with.

What is the difference(s) between the Mizuno MP 14's from say 1994 and the MacGregor Jack Nicklaus Muirfields from I believe 1980?

I have a set of the Muirfields and when I compare it to pictures of the Mizuno MP's I see no obvious differences.

Thanks all and have a great weekend!

[EvanH]

I'm not an expert, but I figured it was an excuse to post pics of classic irons.
 

3 irons pictured (images taken from ebay). I see differences.

 

 

 

 

 

and (bonus) a VIP Limited Edition 3 iron
 

Edited August 19, 2023 by EvanH
re cropped pics

[RMach]

So I see now the "bulg" is a bit back further from the toe.

Hey, I already have the not 20th edition Muirfields. But I can get a nice set of the Mizunos pretty cheap. Do you think there would be a noticeable difference in how they play?

[ezgoer]

Wasn’t the MP14 Tiger’s sticks way back before he signed with Nike and essentially what every one of his personal forgings based on regardless what was stamped on it? Great looking nevertheless. 

[hammergolf]

16 hours ago, ezgoer said:

Wasn’t the MP14 Tiger’s sticks way back before he signed with Nike and essentially what every one of his personal forgings based on regardless what was stamped on it? Great looking nevertheless. 

He played a mixed set of MP29 and MP14 before he went to Titleist 680T, then went to Nike.

[ezgoer]

So where the Nike’s supposedly or rumored to be Titleist forgings?

[elwhippy]

The Nike's were hand forged by mystical Japanese maidens who lived in the clouds. 

[Choclab]

I have some Muirfield 20ths and some MP37s.  Not identical to the MP14, but pretty close. 

 

I don't think the Mizunos would be any "better."

 

Biggest thing I can think of, the Muirfields have very little bounce or sole radius.  The Mizunos will have a little more modern, more rounded leading edge and sole, and might be a touch more forgiving if you get steep.   But IMO it probably wouldn't make a material difference.

 

I personally prefer the MacGregors.  I like the satin finish and the diamond-framed face.  But you can't go wrong with either.  If the 14s are cheap enough, I would give them a shot.  You can always re-sell those.

[RMach]

Choclab, great reply! Thanks bud.

Hey I have the irons from the 1980 Muirfields BUT I literally crush the cat off of my Slazenger balls with my ~20th~ driver. Factory grip factory 8C1H1 (whatever that means) shaft.

I am 57 years old and can hit that driver 275 with very very little effort. I will buy a set of those ~20th~ before I buy the Mizunos per your post.

Thanks!

Edited August 20, 2023 by RMach

[RMach]

23 hours ago, ezgoer said:

So where the Nike’s supposedly or rumored to be Titleist forgings?

Bro Tiger's clubs where made by Muira in Japan to my limited knowledge.

[ezgoer]

8 hours ago, Choclab said:

I have some Muirfield 20ths and some MP37s.  Not identical to the MP14, but pretty close. 

 

I don't think the Mizunos would be any "better."

 

Biggest thing I can think of, the Muirfields have very little bounce or sole radius.  The Mizunos will have a little more modern, more rounded leading edge and sole, and might be a touch more forgiving if you get steep.   But IMO it probably wouldn't make a material difference.

 

I personally prefer the MacGregors.  I like the satin finish and the diamond-framed face.  But you can't go wrong with either.  If the 14s are cheap enough, I would give them a shot.  You can always re-sell those.

I have almost 2 full Muirfield 20th sets. They were the 2nd vintage set I built. I’ve since picked up another 3-P minus the 7 iron out of a thrift store. I really like them especially how the sole reacts with the turf, great divots. I swear i can feel the shaft kick on a great strike more than any other iron with them and it’s really cool along with the buttoned feeling. I am realizing now as I’ve collected multiple other sets of various brands they are possibly the most demanding set I have to play though. Seems to me they were designed far more for Jack than us. Didn’t have to worry about him missing the center. 
 

I also have a set of the first Muirfield persimmons so I kinda want that iron set also. 

[NRJyzr]

On 8/18/2023 at 10:34 PM, ezgoer said:

Wasn’t the MP14 Tiger’s sticks way back before he signed with Nike and essentially what every one of his personal forgings based on regardless what was stamped on it? Great looking nevertheless. 

 

Tiger's first Titleist set were actually based off the old Titleist box blades, but with bounce such as you'd find in the Apex II set.

 

There's a cool Larry Bobka interview somewhere in the golfwrx.com main pages.

 

Transcript of the above interview:

 

https://www.golfwrx.com/512648/transcript-everything-the-ledgendary-larry-bobka-had-to-say-on-our-podcast/

Edited August 22, 2023 by NRJyzr

[RMach]

On 8/20/2023 at 9:49 PM, ezgoer said:

I have almost 2 full Muirfield 20th sets. They were the 2nd vintage set I built. I’ve since picked up another 3-P minus the 7 iron out of a thrift store. I really like them especially how the sole reacts with the turf, great divots. I swear i can feel the shaft kick on a great strike more than any other iron with them and it’s really cool along with the buttoned feeling. I am realizing now as I’ve collected multiple other sets of various brands they are possibly the most demanding set I have to play though. Seems to me they were designed far more for Jack than us. Didn’t have to worry about him missing the center. 
 

I also have a set of the first Muirfield persimmons so I kinda want that iron set also. 

Hey, not trying to be a devil's advocate or whatnot, but I had to quit golf for like the last 22 years. To quote Bobby Jones when asked about his opinion of Jack Nichlaus "I do not understand the game that he plays" or pretty close to that. My point is, go watch the 1987 Masters on YouTube. These guys, including Jack, sprayed these clubs all over the place. The difference is they knew what they did wrong and how to get out of the woolie weeds when need be. These old blades slice through tall grass like a laser.

Today, you can go hit a course designed and built 60+ years ago and easily blow by every obstacle that makes the course fun. I see moveable weights, adjustable shafts and driver heads the size of my old racket ball racket. I have a ton of fun drilling the ~20th~ driver from what 1989? It's little head and factory shaft still gets me out there and keeps those fairway bunkers in play.

My 2 cents but I just feel like asking folks today what kind a game did your clubs have today?

[Choclab]

On 8/20/2023 at 8:49 PM, ezgoer said:

I have almost 2 full Muirfield 20th sets. They were the 2nd vintage set I built. I’ve since picked up another 3-P minus the 7 iron out of a thrift store. I really like them especially how the sole reacts with the turf, great divots. I swear i can feel the shaft kick on a great strike more than any other iron with them and it’s really cool along with the buttoned feeling. I am realizing now as I’ve collected multiple other sets of various brands they are possibly the most demanding set I have to play though. Seems to me they were designed far more for Jack than us. Didn’t have to worry about him missing the center. 

I remember a Don White interview of him talking about the lack of bounce on Jack's clubs, how they almost had a negative bounce, and he marveled that anyone could play irons like that.  But hey, that was Jack.

[ezgoer]

19 hours ago, RMach said:

Hey, not trying to be a devil's advocate or whatnot, but I had to quit golf for like the last 22 years. To quote Bobby Jones when asked about his opinion of Jack Nichlaus "I do not understand the game that he plays" or pretty close to that. My point is, go watch the 1987 Masters on YouTube. These guys, including Jack, sprayed these clubs all over the place. The difference is they knew what they did wrong and how to get out of the woolie weeds when need be. These old blades slice through tall grass like a laser.

Today, you can go hit a course designed and built 60+ years ago and easily blow by every obstacle that makes the course fun. I see moveable weights, adjustable shafts and driver heads the size of my old racket ball racket. I have a ton of fun drilling the ~20th~ driver from what 1989? It's little head and factory shaft still gets me out there and keeps those fairway bunkers in play.

My 2 cents but I just feel like asking folks today what kind a game did your clubs have today?

Welcome back to the game. 

[smashdn]

Heel and toe shape are a little "smoother" on the mizunos to my eye.  I have shied away from the models (any brand) that has the "angular" transition from the hosel to the sole.  It may not but it would seem to me that shape would have a tendency to "hang" more in rough and might result in a club more apt to end up shutting the face on you.

 

I would like to see that theory tested actually. 

[subrew]

Love my MP-14s.  These were the first true blades I built and started playing.  Turns out I'm an ok ball striker, and since I'm just out here having fun, I'm not really looking for strokes gained data to dial in my ideal iron choice.  That said, when I do put older blades in the bag and play for a couple weeks (10+ rounds), my Arccos data barely changes.  In fact, my two personal best rounds at my home course were shot with the MP-14s and then a set of older Titleist Tour Forged irons. 

 

 

[ezgoer]

Incredible looking irons! That rounded off sole grind is awesome. Not around my clubs at the moment but I’d compare the sole grind more to an APEX than a Muirfield but could be mistaken on that. I’ll get some comparison pics tomorrow.

 

Mizuno’s are high up my want list but either people are asking too much money or more often than that they are seriously worn on the face. Hogan APEX Redlines seem to wear similarly face wise. Rarely see a decent set. I’ve always wondered if they are softer steel or is it because a lot more of these clubs were played by ‘sticks’ and got used a lot more idk. 
 

 Perhaps less carbon used in newer steel so it wears faster but this is a very uneducated guess. 

[RMach]

6 hours ago, subrew said:

Love my MP-14s.  These were the first true blades I built and started playing.  Turns out I'm an ok ball striker, and since I'm just out here having fun, I'm not really looking for strokes gained data to dial in my ideal iron choice.  That said, when I do put older blades in the bag and play for a couple weeks (10+ rounds), my Arccos data barely changes.  In fact, my two personal best rounds at my home course were shot with the MP-14s and then a set of older Titleist Tour Forged irons. 

 

 

Those clubs are B E A utiful brother! Way to keep your stuff up. Man now I want to post my Muirfields (really nice but not quite as nice as yours) and my almost mint condition 1973 Walter Hagens. It is fun looking at these survivors in my book.

[RMach]

6 hours ago, subrew said:

Love my MP-14s.  These were the first true blades I built and started playing.  Turns out I'm an ok ball striker, and since I'm just out here having fun, I'm not really looking for strokes gained data to dial in my ideal iron choice.  That said, when I do put older blades in the bag and play for a couple weeks (10+ rounds), my Arccos data barely changes.  In fact, my two personal best rounds at my home course were shot with the MP-14s and then a set of older Titleist Tour Forged irons. 

 

 

I only mentioned the Hagens because they, to me, are similar in a lot of ways to your Titleist Tour Model.

[RMach]

7 hours ago, subrew said:

Love my MP-14s.  These were the first true blades I built and started playing.  Turns out I'm an ok ball striker, and since I'm just out here having fun, I'm not really looking for strokes gained data to dial in my ideal iron choice.  That said, when I do put older blades in the bag and play for a couple weeks (10+ rounds), my Arccos data barely changes.  In fact, my two personal best rounds at my home course were shot with the MP-14s and then a set of older Titleist Tour Forged irons. 

 

 

[ezgoer]

On 8/25/2023 at 10:28 AM, subrew said:

Love my MP-14s.  These were the first true blades I built and started playing.  Turns out I'm an ok ball striker, and since I'm just out here having fun, I'm not really looking for strokes gained data to dial in my ideal iron choice.  That said, when I do put older blades in the bag and play for a couple weeks (10+ rounds), my Arccos data barely changes.  In fact, my two personal best rounds at my home course were shot with the MP-14s and then a set of older Titleist Tour Forged irons. 

 

 

I was kinda right saying the sole grind was more similar to an APEX than a Muirfield. I understand there’s a reason to design but this comparison picture shows how great Mizuno ground the clubs. Mizuno clubs look incredibly finished in comparison. 6 iron comparison pics.

Only 2 Japanese sets I have included. From the left

91 Bridgestone J’s Professional Weapon’s (My modern-ish gamers) 

85 YAMAHA ST-30

76 Hogan APEX

Muirfield 20th

Mac VIP Tour CB 92 (supposedly the same forging as Muirfield’s but they look smaller yet and cavity seems to be far more for cosmetics than perimeter weighting)

Edited August 26, 2023 by ezgoer

[freddiec]

The MacGregor JN Murfield definitely had a sharper leading edge and the muscle back was a little different, but the 2 clubs have similarities.  I like the MP14s more.