Sloppy hips - turning not tilting

[joemcsorleypreswickGC]

Evening all,

 

something I have really struggled with for a long time is my hips turning too level, my arms feel behind for the full swing and struggle with a big left miss or a high push fade.

 

I notice player such as DJ who’s hips don’t “turn” a lot but have good tilt which has a knock on effect with pressure moving correctly and rotation.

 

any help would be much appreciated.

 

 

 

 

[joemcsorleypreswickGC]

Just now, joemcsorleypreswickGC said:

Evening all,

 

something I have really struggled with for a long time is my hips turning too level, my arms feel behind for the full swing and struggle with a big left miss or a high push fade.

 

I notice player such as DJ who’s hips don’t “turn” a lot but have good tilt which has a knock on effect with pressure moving correctly and rotation.

 

any help would be much appreciated.

 

 

 

 

 

[MonteScheinblum]

Too far from the ball and learning way out on your toes.  Your heels are off the ground at address.  Your hips are t turning too much, your left hip just comes out too much.  If you tilted more you’d fall down…and DJ turns his hips plenty.

 

Get a little closer and get pressure more even on your feet and not all on your toes.

[getitdaily]

1 hour ago, MonteScheinblum said:

Too far from the ball and learning way out on your toes.  Your heels are off the ground at address.  Your hips are t turning too much, your left hip just comes out too much.  If you tilted more you’d fall down…and DJ turns his hips plenty.

 

Get a little closer and get pressure more even on your feet and not all on your toes.

Do the first part and the 2nd part happens on its own...well, for me it did. 

[MPStrat]

Joe,

 

Your pelvis is tilted enough.

 

However, your self assessment is pretty astute. The difference between the amount your entire pelvis turns compared to someone like DJ is significant. But you can fill in the blank with most other tour players. The vast majority don’t rotate their belt buckle very much.

 

Im seeing your issue time and time again nowadays. 
 

I’m glad you chose DJ because IMO he is on the higher end in loss of knee flex and pelvis turn on tour. Some tour players lose almost no knee flex and have almost no pelvis turn. I wouldn’t necessarily recommend that. It’s hard to find the opposite. I’m not aware of any tour players with an issue over-rotating their pelvis because it’s such a death move.
 

As you noted, your left hip comes out because you spin your pelvis. 
 

It doesn’t look as bad as it is because you’re wearing all black but if you look closely it’s very obvious. This could be caused by all of internet instruction about “turning your hips” in the backswing which in itself is a vague, harmful term. You have more pelvis turn by p2.5 than DJ does at p4. 
 

A few things to clear up….

 

First thing is, overall, your golf swing is quite good. Setup wise are you on your toes, which can be seen fairly often on tour but isn’t ideal IMO. Balls of the feet would be better. 
 

Pelvis tilt as you are desiring is aided by the loss in trail knee flex. You lose knee flex too soon. Someone who doesn’t lose any flex in the trail leg is going to have a very level pelvis in the backswing. Not your issue. 
 

The answer to your issues IMO is that small setup adjustment and to quiet down your butt-spin  in the takeaway. Better overall sequencing to start the swing is needed.

 

 

 

[joemcsorleypreswickGC]

8 hours ago, MPStrat said:

Joe,

 

Your pelvis is tilted enough.

 

However, your self assessment is pretty astute. The difference between the amount your entire pelvis turns compared to someone like DJ is significant. But you can fill in the blank with most other tour players. The vast majority don’t rotate their belt buckle very much.

 

Im seeing your issue time and time again nowadays. 
 

I’m glad you chose DJ because IMO he is on the higher end in loss of knee flex and pelvis turn on tour. Some tour players lose almost no knee flex and have almost no pelvis turn. I wouldn’t necessarily recommend that. It’s hard to find the opposite. I’m not aware of any tour players with an issue over-rotating their pelvis because it’s such a death move.
 

As you noted, your left hip comes out because you spin your pelvis. 
 

It doesn’t look as bad as it is because you’re wearing all black but if you look closely it’s very obvious. This could be caused by all of internet instruction about “turning your hips” in the backswing which in itself is a vague, harmful term. You have more pelvis turn by p2.5 than DJ does at p4. 
 

A few things to clear up….

 

First thing is, overall, your golf swing is quite good. Setup wise are you on your toes, which can be seen fairly often on tour but isn’t ideal IMO. Balls of the feet would be better. 
 

Pelvis tilt as you are desiring is aided by the loss in trail knee flex. You lose knee flex too soon. Someone who doesn’t lose any flex in the trail leg is going to have a very level pelvis in the backswing. Not your issue. 
 

The answer to your issues IMO is that small setup adjustment and to quiet down your butt-spin  in the takeaway. Better overall sequencing to start the swing is needed.

 

 

 

thanks for the in depth response! would feeling no hip turn until P2 be a good feel?

[joemcsorleypreswickGC]

10 hours ago, MonteScheinblum said:

Too far from the ball and learning way out on your toes.  Your heels are off the ground at address.  Your hips are t turning too much, your left hip just comes out too much.  If you tilted more you’d fall down…and DJ turns his hips plenty.

 

Get a little closer and get pressure more even on your feet and not all on your toes.

golden as always Monte!

[MPStrat]

5 hours ago, joemcsorleypreswickGC said:

thanks for the in depth response! would feeling no hip turn until P2 be a good feel?

Could be. Possibly even later. 
 

Just make sure you aren’t getting too static and standing flat footed while working through things. There is still an early shift into the right foot before the hands take the club away.

[MK7Golf21]

15 hours ago, MPStrat said:

Joe,

 

Your pelvis is tilted enough.

 

However, your self assessment is pretty astute. The difference between the amount your entire pelvis turns compared to someone like DJ is significant. But you can fill in the blank with most other tour players. The vast majority don’t rotate their belt buckle very much.

 

Im seeing your issue time and time again nowadays. 
 

I’m glad you chose DJ because IMO he is on the higher end in loss of knee flex and pelvis turn on tour. Some tour players lose almost no knee flex and have almost no pelvis turn. I wouldn’t necessarily recommend that. It’s hard to find the opposite. I’m not aware of any tour players with an issue over-rotating their pelvis because it’s such a death move.
 

As you noted, your left hip comes out because you spin your pelvis. 
 

It doesn’t look as bad as it is because you’re wearing all black but if you look closely it’s very obvious. This could be caused by all of internet instruction about “turning your hips” in the backswing which in itself is a vague, harmful term. You have more pelvis turn by p2.5 than DJ does at p4. 
 

A few things to clear up….

 

First thing is, overall, your golf swing is quite good. Setup wise are you on your toes, which can be seen fairly often on tour but isn’t ideal IMO. Balls of the feet would be better. 
 

Pelvis tilt as you are desiring is aided by the loss in trail knee flex. You lose knee flex too soon. Someone who doesn’t lose any flex in the trail leg is going to have a very level pelvis in the backswing. Not your issue. 
 

The answer to your issues IMO is that small setup adjustment and to quiet down your butt-spin  in the takeaway. Better overall sequencing to start the swing is needed.

 

 

 

 

 

OP just turns his hips how most AM's do. Two common ways to move the hips on the backswing, turn or pivot. OP is turning them vs. pivoting them. Guys like DJ, Tiger etc. pivot their hips and a player like Hovland is more turn of the hips, you see much more pivot on tour and most am's just turn their hips because it's easier to do with less strain in the muscles. It's easier to keep your tush line and better mechanics with a pivot but it takes work to get it down.

 

One way to tell if you pivot vs turn the hips is to look at the trail knee at the top of the swing. Guys who turn their hips will have their trail knee pointing more to the right or away from the target line on backswing. Guys who pivot, the trail knee will be pointing more straight ahead like address at top of swing. With a pivot you will feel your glutes much more involved and it will shorten the swing in most players unless you are super flexible like DJ.

 

 

Hovland with more of a turn of the hips

 

DJ with a pivot of the hips

 

[MK7Golf21]

also, kind of funny I'm comparing Hovland to DJ as two different pivots. Hovland actually tried to make his swing like DJ when he was playing as a youngster, guy is only 25. I remember hearing Hovland talk about trying to copy DJ in his swing as the bowed wrist, high hands and huge turn on the downswing was all the rage when Dj came on the scene and was dominating.

Edited August 29, 2023 by MK7Golf21

[slytown]

I agree with Monte. Don't change anything except set up. Yes, set up can dramatically change your swing, but a simple instruction like standing closer to the ball and being more balanced can fix a lot of things. Your swing isn't that bad anyway. You just have too much weight on your toes.

 

This is a good test for set up.

 

 

[getitdaily]

1 hour ago, MPStrat said:

Could be. Possibly even later. 
 

Just make sure you aren’t getting too static and standing flat footed while working through things. There is still an early shift into the right foot before the hands take the club away.

I'm a big fan of a bump to the lead side to initiate takeaway and "limit" early hip rotation.  Basically what mat Fitzpatrick does. 

[virtuoso]

This is all fine and good, but fixing the hip turn on the backswing is the easy part. Fixing the downswing hip movement is where the real fun begins.

[joemcsorleypreswickGC]

On 8/29/2023 at 2:13 PM, MPStrat said:

Could be. Possibly even later. 
 

Just make sure you aren’t getting too static and standing flat footed while working through things. There is still an early shift into the right foot before the hands take the club away.

Good feel i`ve had in the past to stop the hips spinning out early is to feel like my left hip stays back on the backswing, imagine a line going straight down from my hip joint DTL, feel is left hip doesnt go past this