My thought, Hogan's down Line

[ShimJoonW]

It should stand slightly crooked, not paraelled along target line

 

and then, the sagging line due to displaced right hand's end finger and the down line will be obliqued, not coincided

[ShimJoonW]

It means that Force Vector and Displacement Vector is not  coincided each other

 

Two Track down Swing  alternated by displacement and Force  along swing circle can makes the Pronation around Body  and supination pulling the Club Head

Edited January 11 by ShimJoonW

[ShimJoonW]

Two path, Disp and Force,  travel around the right leg

This makes the conering around right leg

 

When conering around right leg, Disp path has short cut, but Force path has more large Arc

 

But two path meet at the finish of conering

Swing speed rapidly increase by conering around right leg due to difference of travel length

 

I have many trouble in writing English

I hope you understand 

 

 

 

Edited January 12 by ShimJoonW
added the figure

[ShimJoonW]

Both, Force and disp, are created by external Loading 

 

External Loading are the moving Mass such as right arm, hand, shaft and Clubhead.

 

The center of moving Mass is located in Triangle composed by Right arm at time initial down Swing (move)

 

When  the external load is created and positioned  at the right arm side traingle, there occurred the force and disp at  the right hand end finger by response

 

Edited January 14 by ShimJoonW

[ShimJoonW]

My thought,,,

Comparing the Ben Hogan swing to the contemporary swing .... 

 

Ben Hogan's swing creates loading from the outside

and  transfer power into the internal engine

the inside engine then sends energy to the outside

 

This swing system creates cycling of multi  power circulation of energy.

 

The contemporary swing obtains its energy from within itself, mainly through the process of weight shift

And the energy created in the muscles cannot be reused

 

The reason Ben Hogan's swing is complicated is because it divide the loading part and the thrust part

 

This requires two or three right arms and hands, which share each role and exchange energy with each other

[ShimJoonW]

External static load shall be transformed to internal mass

by dynamic transition

 

All internal mass becomes to be Lumped at Hand and Shoulder Pivot by dynamic transition process

 

And, the center of External Loading is the square point for clubhead 

 

This prove Hogan made the square point at mid down

 

Edited January 16 by ShimJoonW
revised

[ShimJoonW]

 

 

In a traditional swing, release is about releasing force, but here, release is created by confining force and displacement and then opening and closing the club face.

 

The club face opens and closes in both directions of the left and right, up and down

But it is crossing between leftright and updown face directions

 

In the back swing, the club face opens in the left and right directions and does not change the club face in the up and down directions.

 

When initial down, the club face in the left and right directions becomes closed and the club face in the up and down directions becomes open. 

 

This creates a position where the face angles in the two directions coincide. This position is identified as COM and released.

 

Release is based on the lever principle, and there is rotating Lever System between rotation in the body and rotation in the hand

 

To achieve this principle, during the backswing, the angle between the thumb and index finger must make a radial rotation toward the right shoulder, and the right hand must make a tangential rotation

 

[Arafel]

Fascinating

[ShimJoonW]

6 hours ago, Arafel said:

Fascinating

Thank You 

[ShimJoonW]

again

If we go back to address, we can see how Hogan separates Target for Thrust and COM for loading.

 

First, he looks to the left of the target and turn his face to the right at the start of the back swing

 

https://youtube.com/shorts/425L-rc7FSo?si=16ui857PLGQ9nrwX

 

[ShimJoonW]

At Address,,,

If you separate the target and loading, you can create inertia at the cantilever of your index finger

 

The inertia of the index finger can make to derive the club face updown direction into leftright direction

 

This derivation is similar to making to (roll the rock on the surface of water)

 

note 

(  ) means the creation of the  surface water  wave 

 

I am amateur golfer

Thanks to 

 

Edited January 23 by ShimJoonW
Fig added

[Shilgy]

On 1/14/2024 at 2:08 PM, ShimJoonW said:

My thought,,,

Comparing the Ben Hogan swing to the contemporary swing .... 

 

Ben Hogan's swing creates loading from the outside

and  transfer power into the internal engine

the inside engine then sends energy to the outside

 

This swing system creates cycling of multi  power circulation of energy.

 

The contemporary swing obtains its energy from within itself, mainly through the process of weight shift

And the energy created in the muscles cannot be reused

 

The reason Ben Hogan's swing is complicated is because it divide the loading part and the thrust part

 

This requires two or three right arms and hands, which share each role and exchange energy with each other

And yet Hogan…like all of us, only had one right hand and arm.

He may have wished for three but only had one.

[ShimJoonW]

57 minutes ago, Shilgy said:

And yet Hogan…like all of us, only had one right hand and arm.

He may have wished for three but only had one.

maybe ,,,,

 

I'm thinking 

the wave caused the hand to stay on wave surface  until it lost its inertia?

 

While right hand has two times Flexion, supination and extension against stay on wave 

Edited January 23 by ShimJoonW
Revised

[ShimJoonW]

When you lower the club face of updown direction  to the top of your right foot,

the club head is actually positioned at about P4.5.

Is this an illusion? 

 

I think the reason is that the club face of leftright direction are still at the top of the back.

However, by lowering the face of the updown directions, 

the lower body and pelvis was rotated at Position  P4.5 

Edited January 24 by ShimJoonW
Revised

[ShimJoonW]

 

Actually describing feelings Is very difficult and can lead to tedious errors

 

There are much feelings I have experienced, but there are still many parts that cannot be explained.

 

I wasn't trying to copy Hogan's swing but recently it think to me that my swing is similar with Hogan's

 

There are many important aspects and concept other than what is described here.

 

However, i am afraid that There could be an mis description or interpretation 

furthermore,  English is not my native language 

 

So, I will stop work here

thank you for reading 😄😄😄

Edited January 24 by ShimJoonW

[Arafel]

8 years.....8iron?

[Arafel]

I'm just a bystander here...

[Pepperturbo]

Didn't read all posts, but at first glance - having used Hogan's Five Lessons and two other books to teach myself golf and reach an index of 2 in six years, my eyes see engineering analysis and paralysis, and getting in one's way, all in one thread. LOL 

 

Good luck

Edited February 2 by Pepperturbo

[ShimJoonW]

9 hours ago, Chainlinks said:

Believe it, you swing nothing like Hogan and are not even sniffing it! How’s that hole where there are shanties every other joint?

 

It doesn't matter whether it  different from Hogan or not.

 

It is matter that 

due to being hard , so you can not understand it.

[ShimJoonW]

5 hours ago, ObraMaestra said:

Would like to read this but don't understand it at all, can anyone decipher.   Thank you in 

 

sorry for the indecipherable writing   😞 

but,  thank you for reading

Edited February 3 by ShimJoonW

[ShimJoonW]

2 hours ago, Pepperturbo said:

Didn't read all posts, but at first glance - having used Hogan's Five Lessons and two other books to teach myself golf and reach an index of 2 in six years, my eyes see engineering analysis and paralysis, and getting in one's way, all in one thread. LOL 

 

Good luck

 

I am aware of this too

 

So I stopped writing more description although there are critical point for future analysis

 

thank you

[Pepperturbo]

44 minutes ago, ShimJoonW said:

 

I am aware of this too

 

So I stopped writing more description although there are critical point for future analysis

 

thank you

Personally, I'd rather insights from someone who's an accomplished golfer, as opposed to details from someone that theorizes what he can't make happen.  You're aware, but can you???  

[ShimJoonW]

12 minutes ago, Pepperturbo said:

Personally, I'd rather insights from someone who's an accomplished golfer, as opposed to details from someone that theorizes what he can't make happen.  You're aware, but can you???  

 

Yes of course,  it was descripted from my Own Swing

 

Whenever I write this, I make the swing motion and I describe it through  my swing 

 

I  do not prefer other's golf swing theory because their  theory and mechanism completely  different from my swing

[ShimJoonW]

Deleted

Edited February 15 by ShimJoonW