Advantages and disadvantages of the HL irons?

[jjfcpa]

Please join the conversation.

 

Just looking for some feedback on the advantages and disadvantages of the HL model irons that Ping (G430), Taylormade (Qi10), JPX923, and Callaway (AI Smoke HL) are now offering?

 

If you are a slower swing speed golfer (senior primarily I'm guessing), would you consider one of these?

[GrandStranded]

When you get old and lose speed, you’ll get the same, if not more distance with a HL set as you would with a “modern” lofted GI or SGI set of irons. The reason being you’ll get back the launch you’ve probably lost, and you’ll be hitting a more forgiving club.

 It happened to me. Once I put the Halos in my bag  I’m hitting more greens, my misses are better, and my front to back yardages have condensed.

 

Edited February 17 by GrandStranded

[GrandStranded]

One more thing @jjfcpa, I know you like to try a lot of different equipment, but the sad truth (especially with irons) is there’s no magic fix, especially in your senior years.

You’ll be better served finding a high launching, forgiving set you like the looks of and making them your ride or die. 

Your irons are your workhorses. They need to be steady and reliable performers, and the only way that will happen is if you stick with and really get to know them.

Edited February 17 by GrandStranded

[WristySwing]

12 hours ago, jjfcpa said:

Please join the conversation.

 

Just looking for some feedback on the advantages and disadvantages of the HL model irons that Ping (G430), Taylormade (Qi10), JPX923, and Callaway (AI Smoke HL) are now offering?

 

If you are a slower swing speed golfer (senior primarily I'm guessing), would you consider one of these?

 

If you think you need something very lightweight graphite, with a wider sole, don't count out XXIO either.  The stuff is fantastic.  They have had years to perfect this while the rest of the companies are just playing catchup.

[jjfcpa]

13 hours ago, GrandStranded said:

One more thing @jjfcpa, I know you like to try a lot of different equipment, but the sad truth (especially with irons) is there’s no magic fix, especially in your senior years.

You’ll be better served finding a high launching, forgiving set you like the looks of and making them your ride or die. 

Your irons are your workhorses. They need to be steady and reliable performers, and the only way that will happen is if you stick with and really get to know them.

 

You are correct, I've tried a lot and even though I keep tinkering, for the last few years I've been playing the Titleist T series (300 original, 2nd generation 300, and now the 350).  Every time I think I find something better, it turns out either the distance isn't there or there's no difference in spin.

 

And I don't mind tinkering because if they don't work out, I've donated a couple of sets to Veterans through 2nd Swing that just didn't work for me.

 

I just ordered a 7 iron in the Callaway AI Smoke HL just for comparison but I'm guessing that the T350's will still suit me better.  I just finished trying a 7 iron in the Cobra Darkspeed iron and distance and spin were no better than the T350's.  

 

I don't seem to have a problem with distance with the T350's but could use more spin when hitting into the greens but I'm sure I'd have to sacrifice some distance to do this and at my age and swing speed, I'd rather have the distance.  As much as I don't like to see the ball land on the green and roll off, especially my GIR percentage is not that great, I'd rather stick with what I have than try to adapt to something new.

 

I know this "high launch" is in vogue right now, but I recently went back to my old driver after getting fitted for a TSi driver that just seemed to float the ball too high.  And that was with a 9 degree head.  With my old driver head (Rogue ST Max) and shaft (Vylan), my trajectories are lower and I'm get more distance and to me, a nicer ball flight.

 

Appreciate your comments.

 

[jjfcpa]

I've read a lot about XXIO, but never had the opportunity to give them a try.  Might have to order a 7 iron in the XXIO and compare it to my Titleist T350.

[GrandStranded]

I get what you’re saying about wanting a little more total distance.

I guess a lot of that is course dependent though. My club has 4 courses with a lot of forced carries over either water or waste areas.

I want/need a club that’s going to carry 135 and give me maybe 140 total a lot more than one that carries 125 but then rolls out to 145-150. Point being I need to make sure my club will clear the hazard and land softly, not worry about whether a low screamer will come up ten yards short of doing so, or just as bad, clear it and then run through the green.

Who knows though? If I played more links style golf, I might be more inclined to feel differently about this.

[POKeefe]

Advantage and Disadvantage: They go higher, fly straighter, and are chunkier which can be confidence inspiring.

 

This is ideal for a lower speed player who struggles to get the ball airborne but bad for a higher speed player who can easily balloon golf balls.

[GrandStranded]

2 hours ago, POKeefe said:

Advantage and Disadvantage: They go higher, fly straighter, and are chunkier which can be confidence inspiring.

 

This is ideal for a lower speed player who struggles to get the ball airborne but bad for a higher speed player who can easily balloon golf balls.

Meh… it’s never wise to speak in absolutes.

A 37yo 20 plus cap at my club was fit into a set of Halos w/DG stiff shafts.
When he manages to pull off a good swing he can get close to 200 with his 5 iron. 

[POKeefe]

3 minutes ago, GrandStranded said:

Meh… it’s never wise to speak in absolutes.

A 37yo 20 plus cap at my club was fit into a set of Halos w/DG stiff shafts.
When he manages to pull off a good swing he can get close to 200 with his 5 iron. 

It’s also preferred ball flight. I played the HB Turbo’s before too. They were great when I was a 20 handicap and quickly became painful when I started getting better and ballooned them in the wind. 
 

By design, they want to go high all the time. Pro for some, con for others.

[GrandStranded]

19 minutes ago, POKeefe said:

It’s also preferred ball flight. I played the HB Turbo’s before too. They were great when I was a 20 handicap and quickly became painful when I started getting better and ballooned them in the wind. 
 

By design, they want to go high all the time. Pro for some, con for others.

I see you’re playing the Rogue Pros… Good on you for improving enough both speed and strike wise to make that switch. 👍

If you don’t mind me asking, how old are you, and how fast are you? I’m turning 70 in June so I’m not a high speed player anymore. I’m a 9.7 but only play tees up to 6200 yards.
The courses  I play are right off the ocean though, and it can get windy, but I suppose at my SS the ballooning effect isn’t a factor. 🤷‍♂️

 

Edited February 17 by GrandStranded

[POKeefe]

4 minutes ago, GrandStranded said:

I see you’re playing the Rogue Pros… Good on you for improving enough both speed and strike wise to make that switch. 👍

If you don’t mind me asking, how old are you, and how fast are you? I’m turning 70 in June so I’m not a high speed player anymore. I’m a 9.7 but only play tees up to 6200 yards.
The courses  I play are right off the ocean though, and it can get windy, but I suppose at my SS the ballooning effect isn’t a factor. 🤷‍♂️

 

I’m in my 30’s and have about 87-88 mph clubhead speed in my 7i and 107 in my driver. I think it’s 100% down to clubhead speed. If I was your age and struggled with speed, I’d definitely look for a thicker iron that had more height. Cleveland XL line is the extreme option in terms of height, but the offset isn’t bad. This is where the HL clubs make a ton of sense.

 

[POKeefe]

If someone is looking for height but doesn’t want to go full HL/SGI iron, then I’d take a look at the Srixon ZX5’s. My experience is that club sends the ball a mile in the air.

[GrandStranded]

1 minute ago, POKeefe said:

I’m in my 30’s and have about 87-88 mph clubhead speed in my 7i and 107 in my driver. I think it’s 100% down to clubhead speed. If I was your age and struggled with speed, I’d definitely look for a thicker iron that had more height. Cleveland XL line is the extreme option in terms of height, but the offset isn’t bad. This is where the HL clubs make a ton of sense.

 

Agreed, and yeah, you’re definitely not the target audience for a set like mine, 😂

I’m very impressed with how far you’ve come since your Turbo days. Good on you!

[POKeefe]

3 minutes ago, GrandStranded said:

Agreed, and yeah, you’re definitely not the target audience for a set like mine, 😂

I’m very impressed with how far you’ve come since your Turbo days. Good on you!

Sometimes you overshoot it too. I played some decent golf with Z785’s, which feel great but are some true players sticks. Got humbled real quick trying to play winter golf with them. Rogue’s were a compromise option. Similar shape, but not killer on the hands. At the end of the day, most of it is preference. You hand a pro an SGI iron and they will still shoot under par.

[GrandStranded]

8 minutes ago, POKeefe said:

Sometimes you overshoot it too. I played some decent golf with Z785’s, which feel great but are some true players sticks. Got humbled real quick trying to play winter golf with them. Rogue’s were a compromise option. Similar shape, but not killer on the hands. At the end of the day, most of it is preference. You hand a pro an SGI iron and they will still shoot under par.

I hear you. I played Hogan and Callaway versions of Apex irons for over 25 years… I went down a rabbit hole about 3 years ago trying to chase diminishing distance, but finally realized higher launch equated to better scoring (and better front to back dispersion).

Edited February 17 by GrandStranded

[erock9174]

38 minutes ago, POKeefe said:

If someone is looking for height but doesn’t want to go full HL/SGI iron, then I’d take a look at the Srixon ZX5’s. My experience is that club sends the ball a mile in the air.

I can attest to this.  I was fitted in August and tried the ZX5, ZX4, G430, i230, T350.

At the time was playing graphite shafts and had it in my head that I wanted to go back into steel so I had the fitter only try steel 80-90g higher launching shafts.  

 

Off the top, the ZX4 and T350 were non starters.  Which was a bummer because over the ball both looked great and I really hit the T350 well.  But the fitter said he couldn't put me into either of them with the height I was getting.  Only 62' with the ZX4 (land angle 39.1*) and T350 64' (land angle 39.3*.

This was with a 7i and I wanted to start my set with a 6i like I normally do.  I have gone round and round with SEVERAL 6 hybrids and they never stick for me.  

The i230 I wanted to love being a Ping guy but over the ball it just looked too small with the thin top line.  

The G430 was getting closer 41.4* land angle and 68' height.  but the ZX5 with KBS Tour Lite 95R was the best.  42.9* land angle and 71' high.  it was the only club that averaged over 70' high.  It was 4-5 yds shorter than the 430,T350 and ZX4, but the numbers were better.  I went with them and if I bought them with graphite shafts would still have them today but I play alot of rounds in the 38-45* temp range and steel just feels too heavy for me in the cold and when the body is not loose.  The ZX5 is a slightly slimmer profile than the ZX4, T350, G430 if that is a concern.  

 

 

 

 

 

 

[erock9174]

Forgot to mention above after I sold the ZX5's I ended up going back to Ping G425 6-U iron set with the Alta Graphites in Reg.  I fight the 6i, not lack in height or descent angle, but I like to draw the ball and sometimes it wants to tail on me.  Often times I will put an old Cleveland HB Turbo 6i in the bag just because I can usually hit my gentle draw with it on a more frequent basis.  For reference it has the stock CKua graphite 6R shaft.  

[erock9174]

Also I have tried the Mizuno JPX923 Hot Metal HL.  I bought a 6i to test when they first came out with the Recoil 460 reg flex shaft.  Very nice iron but I had the G425's at the time and on the monitor I got 3 yds longer on avg with the G425's with similar height and spin.  So I felt it wasn't necessary to make the switch.  I have also owned the TM Stealth HD iron.  Liked the 6i-9i but the low profile shape kinda messed with my eye on the set wedges.  So I sold those off. 

 

One iron that launches the ball extremely well and with a healthy amount of spin is the Cobra T-Rail.  I owned the first generation and they were a joy to play.  My daughter took the 9i out of my bag when she was like 3yrs old though and drug it across our driveway and it scratched the paint really bad.  I had to get rid of them after that, lol

But I know hybrid style irons are not for everyone.  

 

I do like though that oems are now on the HL trend offering sets with weaker lofts.  

 

 

[erock9174]

20 hours ago, jjfcpa said:

Please join the conversation.

 

Just looking for some feedback on the advantages and disadvantages of the HL model irons that Ping (G430), Taylormade (Qi10), JPX923, and Callaway (AI Smoke HL) are now offering?

 

If you are a slower swing speed golfer (senior primarily I'm guessing), would you consider one of these?

Jeff I don't think there are any disadvantages to HL irons.  It's all about providing a fitting need.  Not everybody needs super strong lofts to win the distance battle.  While I am not quite old yet...do turn 48 this year, I have always hit the ball the same distance pretty much since I started golf 30 yrs ago.  I just have a nice easy deliberate swing and try to keep the ball in play with accuracy.  So anything stronger than a 26* 6i never works for me.  I think that is helpful going into club purchases for me.  Also hollowbody irons rarely work for me either.  I seem to generate more height and spin with cavity back irons.  

 

Chris Voshall does a good job of explaining the HLs here at the 3:06 mark.  

 

 

Edited February 17 by erock9174

[POKeefe]

36 minutes ago, erock9174 said:

Jeff I don't think there are any disadvantages to HL irons.  It's all about providing a fitting need.  Not everybody needs super strong lofts to win the distance battle.  While I am not quite old yet...do turn 48 this year, I have always hit the ball the same distance pretty much since I started golf 30 yrs ago.  I just have a nice easy deliberate swing and try to keep the ball in play with accuracy.  So anything stronger than a 26* 6i never works for me.  I think that is helpful going into club purchases for me.  Also hollowbody irons rarely work for me either.  I seem to generate more height and spin with cavity back irons.  

 

Chris Voshall does a good job of explaining the HLs here at the 3:06 mark.  

 

 

The only big disadvantages are if you don’t like the chunky look and you don’t need height. But otherwise for golfers with less swing speed, they make a ton of sense. Same reason why hybrids make more sense than long irons and woods make more sense than hybrids for some people.

 

For me, higher launching irons become a lot harder to control and leads to a lot of over drawing of the gold ball. Just need to know your game though. If you need height, they’re definitely the right move.

[Roejye]

I think it's the ability to give you more launch. Yeah a lower lofted iron will give you more distance, but how predictable is that if that distance is based on roll-out. Theoretically, giving someone with slightly slower swing speed with the other characteristics of a gi/sgi iron would help launch the ball better.

[MilesVJackson]

5 hours ago, jjfcpa said:

 

I don't seem to have a problem with distance with the T350's but could use more spin when hitting into the greens but I'm sure I'd have to sacrifice some distance to do this and at my age and swing speed, I'd rather have the distance.  As much as I don't like to see the ball land on the green and roll off, especially my GIR percentage is not that great, I'd rather stick with what I have than try to adapt to something new.

 

 

Something to consider: the overriding point of irons is to hit (and stay on) the greens.  The distance a particular iron travels isn't that important (if you need to hit it further, hit a longer iron)!  You're likely to hit more GIRs with irons that will stop on the greens, even if you don't hit them as far as the t350s.  On that note, yes, definitely hit the HL irons!  They have higher lofts that the t350s, so they should help your iron shots hold the green.  You'll give up some distance, but I predict your GIR percentage will increase.

[0kie]

I just had an interesting experience getting fitted for Hot Metal HLs. The fitter had me hit the HL head with the True Temper Elevate stiff shaft, and I fell in love with the combination. I was carrying the 7 iron 180 in the simulator consistently.  My normal 7 is 160. I was so skeptical, I thought they had the settings juiced. I was sold and told the fitter I would order them. He came back and said both the HL head and Elevate shaft were unavailable from Mizuno. I was crushed and settled for the regular Hot Metal with KBS tour lite stiff shafts. I came home and searched the internet for days trying to figure out how to get the HL head and Elevate shaft combination. Was finally able to order a set from World Wide Golf. So, now I have two sets of Mizuno irons being shipped to the house, lol. Anybody in the market for some Mizuno JPX Hot Metal w/KBS tour lite stiff shafts! My wife is going to kill me.

[PuffyC]

Don't think of them as high launch so much as "less super strong lofted". With clubs like the HM and HM Pro sporting a 25* 6 iron, most slow swing speed players today struggle to even get a 7 iron in the air, and if they do then the spin is so low that getting anything to stick is difficult. The lofts got so strong that the OEMs saw they were leaving a big segment of the market behind and their solution was to create all the new HL variants.

 

Are they for you? If you appreciate the more traditional, playable lofts like what you get with a players iron, but you need the fat soles and offset because your swing isn't so great, now you have an option in the HLs. 

 

[GrandStranded]

@erock9174  @POKeefe

I’m no expert with this stuff, but i don’t think my Launcher XL Halos have a lot of offset?

Am I wrong here?

EDIT

just went back and checked an earlier post from pokeefe. He basically said the same thing.

Edited February 18 by GrandStranded

[erock9174]

15 minutes ago, GrandStranded said:

@erock9174  @POKeefe

I’m no expert with this stuff, but i don’t think my Launcher XL Halos have a lot of offset?

Am I wrong here?

EDIT

just went back and checked an earlier post from pokeefe. He basically said the same thing.

correct. The Cleveland hybrid irons usually has about 2mm of offset on the 6i. That is extremely low. I have an old set of Cleveland altitude irons and they are the same way. Love the low offset. 
 

Most GI/SGI irons have 3-6 mm of offset on a 6i

 

that is one thing that bugs me about my g425 6i is the offset  it’s 5mm. And messes with my eye at address. 

Edited February 18 by erock9174

[POKeefe]

57 minutes ago, GrandStranded said:

@erock9174  @POKeefe

I’m no expert with this stuff, but i don’t think my Launcher XL Halos have a lot of offset?

Am I wrong here?

EDIT

just went back and checked an earlier post from pokeefe. He basically said the same thing.

The Halos are fantastic irons if you can get along with the shape and need height. Probably the only SGI irons that don’t have excessive offset. They’d be at the top of my recommendation list for a new golfer.

[CROUSE99]

I have played the JPX HL irons since last June.  I tried a lot of demo 7 irons and it came down to the Mizunos and Ping G430s with the ultra light shaft.  The numbers were nearly identical.  I went with the Mizunos simply because I like their look.  The only issue I have with the Mizunos is the thick sole.  I've always gotten along better with thin-ish soles.  I am 67 and have always been a low ball hitter with my irons.  The HL's have really helped get my trajectory higher.  My 7 iron swing speed is 75 to 78 mph.

[erock9174]

On 2/17/2024 at 7:57 PM, POKeefe said:

The Halos are fantastic irons if you can get along with the shape and need height. Probably the only SGI irons that don’t have excessive offset. They’d be at the top of my recommendation list for a new golfer.

 

The Cobra T-rail are on the lower offset side too.  3.4mm in the 6i which is less than most GI/SGI irons.