Does trackman IO read spin axis correctly?

[EagleGSU]

I'm considering  my different options for a home simulator. And I'd rather go trackman than foresight due to customer service reasons. But one of the biggest things that was holding me back from the trackman 4 was the "gear effect". Where off center hits could sometimes lead to incorrect ball flights which imo would make sim golf not trustworthy.. Does trackman IO track things differently so that isn't common on heel and toe strikes?

 

and are there any downsides in going with the IO vs the trackman 4 if it's going to be indoor only?

Edited February 21 by EagleGSU

[iacas]

A GCQuad is going to be better for indoor simulation and practice. Trackman requires much more space, doesn't read ball spin super well, etc.

 

The upside to the Trackman solution is:

• Easier for righties and lefties (though lefties can hit "over the top" of a GCQuad).
• The software is a bit better, though for sim stuff you can get GSPro with the FS or TM, and the range software for the GCQuad isn't bad. FSX Pro is meh, and their iPad/iPhone software is poor.

Trackman also has an annual $2k subscription cost or something as well.

[EagleGSU]

1 hour ago, iacas said:

A GCQuad is going to be better for indoor simulation and practice. Trackman requires much more space, doesn't read ball spin super well, etc.

 

The upside to the Trackman solution is:

• Easier for righties and lefties (though lefties can hit "over the top" of a GCQuad).
• The software is a bit better, though for sim stuff you can get GSPro with the FS or TM, and the range software for the GCQuad isn't bad. FSX Pro is meh, and their iPad/iPhone software is poor.

Trackman also has an annual $2k subscription cost or something as well.

Thanks for the response.

 

When you say that GC Quad is better for indoor simulation you're talking about even better than the IO? I ask because you mentioned space constraints, which I figured the IO would not need much space at least compared to the TM4. I do have some lefties that might be playing, which is why the overhead unit if they have corrected the spin axis readings might be worth exploring. Would never let the players I have in mind swing over the top of a quad lol And I could just keep my BLP for outdoor use. I know they say with the IO you don't need to use metal dots, or the RCT balls anymore.

 

But if the spin axis/spin readings are still flawed compared to the quad with the IO then Quad it is.

 

The annual subscription isn't really a deal breaker for me. I think the subscription is like $1100. I like the Trackman software whenever I've used it, so I'd have no qualms using it over GSpro. And at the PGA show they were showing off upgraded graphics that are supposed to come out later this year which looked really good.

 

Edited February 22 by EagleGSU

[Celeras]

He must have misread your post, he's definitely not talking about the iO. Spin axis is measured just like the Quad, and the space requirements would be less with the overhead unit. What he said would be accurate regarding older Trackman units behind the ball (which used impact position to calculate spin axis like you said in your OP).

 

That said, you're going to have a hard time getting real world testing/answers. Trackman priced the iO unit out of being competitive and nobody is buying it. Very hard sell at the moment.

[iacas]

It's my understanding that the IO isn't a pure camera based system, but uses a combo of cameras and radar. So it still needs more ball flight (i.e. more space), and I don't think it reads spin well and you'll still see more italic numbers.

 

But… I'm not super familiar with the IO, so… I could be off base.

 

If the one of the few cons is the Foresight customer service, then I can't disagree… but I do think it's one of only a few cons.

[txbadger]

12 hours ago, iacas said:

It's my understanding that the IO isn't a pure camera based system, but uses a combo of cameras and radar. So it still needs more ball flight (i.e. more space), and I don't think it reads spin well and you'll still see more italic numbers.

you are correct that it does use radar (as well as IR), but I believe the camera is doing a lot of the heavy lifting including spin.   The website states:  "Trackman iO combines radar, infrared and high-speed imaging to deliver real data - including measured 3D spin and spin axis - in real time". 

 

14 hours ago, Celeras said:

That said, you're going to have a hard time getting real world testing/answers. Trackman priced the iO unit out of being competitive and nobody is buying it. Very hard sell at the moment.

If it wasn't for the fact that they charge $7,500 more for the exact same hardware (and $400 more a year) just to get club data, I would probably pick an iO up immediately.   The camera for impact view is impressive and you don't need stickers on your club, nor any special ball to use this LM.    Trackman is really missing an opportunity here with their punitive pricing, but its their choice of business model.   

 

I don't mind a nominal annual subscription (a few hundred bucks) but $1100/year to use your $21,500 system is just a no-go.   

[EagleGSU]

58 minutes ago, txbadger said:

you are correct that it does use radar (as well as IR), but I believe the camera is doing a lot of the heavy lifting including spin.   The website states:  "Trackman iO combines radar, infrared and high-speed imaging to deliver real data - including measured 3D spin and spin axis - in real time". 

 

If it wasn't for the fact that they charge $7,500 more for the exact same hardware (and $400 more a year) just to get club data, I would probably pick an iO up immediately.   The camera for impact view is impressive and you don't need stickers on your club, nor any special ball to use this LM.    Trackman is really missing an opportunity here with their punitive pricing, but its their choice of business model.   

 

I don't mind a nominal annual subscription (a few hundred bucks) but $1100/year to use your $21,500 system is just a no-go.   

It really does look like a great system. I wrote it off when I first saw it, but after doing more research it really does look solid.

 

As of now it doesn't show angle of attack. But with the hardware they're using I'm sure they will figure out how to add that in a future update.

 

And I do like all the game improvement stuff they have in their software. It's going to be a hard decision for me. 

Edited February 22 by EagleGSU

[txbadger]

9 minutes ago, EagleGSU said:

It really does look like a great system. I wrote it off when I first saw it, but after doing more research it really does look solid.

 

As of now it doesn't show angle of attack. But I'm sure they will figure out how to add that in a future update.

 

And I do like all the game improvement stuff they have in their software. It's going to be a hard decision for me. 

It has a lot of potential but I just don't care for that price point of $21,500 plus almost $100/month.  the subscription model (at least at that price) is the most annoying to me followed by the $7,500 up charge at purchase.   I'm holding out for another year or so as I've heard that competition is heating up as well as new entrants coming in wanting to chip away at both FS and TM's market share.    Getting rid of club stickers is a big one for me as my LM (Uneekor Eye XO2) is picky about placement of the stickers.   Aside from that I actually like it but ngl I get distracted by shiny new things.   Speaking of which the Eye XO2 has some good AI coaching in the works... I used it in beta and tho it needs some work, its very helpful.   I just have no idea what their production pricing will be. 

 

  

Edited February 22 by txbadger

[collje26]

I would be curious what experience you've had with foresight with customer service concerns, I know every company has had them but when I was in the purchasing stage there wasn't a company that did a better job than foresight and anything I've had questions on after I just email the rep I dealt with and he is great.

[txbadger]

 

@collje26 Not surprising they were helpful during the purchasing stage.    During the support stage seems to be the issue.   Here is one example

Foresight - Buyer Beware

Edited February 23 by txbadger

[collje26]

4 hours ago, txbadger said:

 

@collje26 Not surprising they were helpful during the purchasing stage.    During the support stage seems to be the issue.   Here is one example

Foresight - Buyer Beware

Yeah I've read that. Unfortunately no one company is perfect. 

[EagleGSU]

7 hours ago, collje26 said:

I would be curious what experience you've had with foresight with customer service concerns, I know every company has had them but when I was in the purchasing stage there wasn't a company that did a better job than foresight and anything I've had questions on after I just email the rep I dealt with and he is great.

I actually just had a sales rep just now and reach out to me about trading in my BLP. And the offer they made me sounded really generous. So I think I’m going with the GC quad max.

 

really no negative experiences personally. Just a couple people I saw that had issues with their units on forums. Probably not a widespread issue.

Edited February 23 by EagleGSU

[AmateurAmateur]

Foresight customer service went downhill massively after they were acquired by Bushnell. Trackman customer service is much better. Head to head, the TrackMan is better for a number of reasons, while the GC Quad is better for less reasons. 
Have you considered a GC Hawk if you plan on having both left and right handed players? Surely it’s cheaper than the IO especially with the $1100 a year subscription. 

[EagleGSU]

1 hour ago, AmateurAmateur said:

Foresight customer service went downhill massively after they were acquired by Bushnell. Trackman customer service is much better. Head to head, the TrackMan is better for a number of reasons, while the GC Quad is better for less reasons. 
Have you considered a GC Hawk if you plan on having both left and right handed players? Surely it’s cheaper than the IO especially with the $1100 a year subscription. 

The IO sounds amazing because you don't have to put stickers on the club. That's a pretty annoying downside to foresight even the falcon. And I do like the trackman software, but at $100 a month that does seem too steep after the 22k you're paying for the unit. 

 

Foresight you at least get their software already unlocked, but I read a lot of people saying they don't really like the foresight software...so idk hopefully they continue to improve on it. But you also can use GSpro which a lot of people tend to like.

 

I think I've decided on the Quad Max, I won't have lefties over very often, and it'll end up saving me probably  at least 20k in the initial sim setup. Because with Trackman I would have had them do the complete install.

 

I'm supposed to make the payment Monday to get the offer they gave me on the trade in. And seems like a fair offer they made me. But that's still a lot of money, and am having second thoughts already wondering if the extra data compared to the launch pro will really help make me a better golfer lol But I'm sure once the order goes thru and I have the unit I'll get over the initial hit.

 

I've had a lot of lessons. So i know how to interpret the data, and face to path and impact location are the two big data points I would like to have. And the swing speed training.

 

 

 

Edited February 24 by EagleGSU

[collje26]

20 hours ago, EagleGSU said:

I actually just had a sales rep just now and reach out to me about trading in my BLP. And the offer they made me sounded really generous. So I think I’m going with the GC quad max.

 

really no negative experiences personally. Just a couple people I saw that had issues with their units on forums. Probably not a widespread issue.

Awesome! I have a GC3, let me know how you like the Max. 

[collje26]

4 hours ago, EagleGSU said:

The IO sounds amazing because you don't have to put stickers on the club. That's a pretty annoying downside to foresight even the falcon. And I do like the trackman software, but at $100 a month that does seem too steep after the 22k you're paying for the unit. 

 

Foresight you at least get their software already unlocked, but I read a lot of people saying they don't really like the foresight software...so idk hopefully they continue to improve on it. But you also can use GSpro which a lot of people tend to like.

 

I think I've decided on the Quad Max, I won't have lefties over very often, and it'll end up saving me probably  at least 20k in the initial sim setup. Because with Trackman I would have had them do the complete install.

 

I'm supposed to make the payment Monday to get the offer they gave me on the trade in. And seems like a fair offer they made me. But that's still a lot of money, and am having second thoughts already wondering if the extra data compared to the launch pro will really help make me a better golfer lol But I'm sure once the order goes thru and I have the unit I'll get over the initial hit.

 

I've had a lot of lessons. So i know how to interpret the data, and face to path and impact location are the two big data points I would like to have. And the swing speed training.

 

 

 

I was in the same boat I just didn't have the pockets big enough for the Quad or see the value in basically paying double vs the GC3 but I think when you want to upgrade the Max will have a much better resale value or demand on the secondary market.