Foresight - Buyer Beware

[CallawayLefty]

Just wanted to relay my recent experience with Foresight.  I purchased a GC Hawk, which I did primarily because I am left handed and wanted to have easy use of LH and RH at the same time.  Device showed up and LH club data was not working.  I contacted customer service and was immediately put through the “delay paces” that companies often employ.  For example, I had to send multiple videos showing I knew how to install stickers (I have used a Quad for years), had to run many diagnostic protocol, etc.  That’s all well and good, but I was able to tell immediately that RH data was working, so it was clearly a device issue.  
 

After 6 weeks of talking about it with them, I was informed that they had finally determined it was a device issue (no kidding) and my only option was to ship it back to them at my cost and let them work on it for “20-30+ business days.”

 

As I am sure everyone can understand, shipping a 9 foot long 50 pound box isn’t the cheapest endeavor.  As a matter of fact, when I did that yesterday, it cost me $1200.  
 

I felt like I was being “punked” that this was the only solution they would offer.  I asked several times that they surely cannot expect me to pay $20k for a device that doesn’t work and then send it back at my own cost and let them fool around with it for god knows how long.  I was informed that this is in fact the “company policy” and my only option under my purported “warranty.”

 

I am in disbelief that a company that sells such an expensive item offers so little in the way of resolution for an issue.  You can’t even send me a shipping label????

 

Just ridiculous.  I have done my best to start bringing this up on social media, in forums, etc.   I see now on googling that others have had similar experiences.  But I just wanted to share this here before anyone else goes and spends their hard earned tens of thousands of dollars with a company that operates like this.  
 

I already told them if I don’t get it shipped back promptly I’ll be filing a fraud complaint with my credit card company.  Unbelievable. 

[EagleGSU]

That's ridiculous. Scumbag move on their part.

 

I'm leaning more and more towards Trackman for my home sim as time goes on. 

Edited January 30 by EagleGSU

[txbadger]

I had been considering buying a new Foresight Falcon.   After reading this I'll stick with my EyeXO2 which works just fine.

 

Definately a chump move on their part. 

[The Coug]

Hoping for industry pressure on Foresight/Bushnell from Uneekor, Protee, etc. 

 

High subscription and transfer fees. Suspect repair practices. 

[tets]

That’s terrible.  I would also contact your state’s attorney general’s office and the BBB

[mgoblue83]

Really crappy but not that surprising given how greedy they are with subscription and software fees.

 

Does Foresight have reps or did you purchase directly from their website?

 

My brother was a Trackman rep in the southwest for 6 years and if there were any issues with units or sims that he sold he would verify the issue in person, take it with him and ship it to corporate himself AND would leave his personal Trackman with the client in the meantime.

[rooski]

Sorry to hear about your experience with that, I would be frustrated beyond words if I were you.

 

I am absolutely shocked that it would cost $1,200 to ship that though. A 50lb 9'x1'x1' box shipped across the country comes in around $300 on UPS estimator.. Did you ship it next day air or something? 

Edited February 16 by rooski

[doctor220]

Foresight does have disgusting customer service. Think people were forced to accept it bc their devices used to be way superior than alternatives particularly in terms of indoor specific camera based systems. This is rapidly changing though however and they better adapt and learn how to provide customer service or they will go the way of the dodo. 

[doctor220]

6 hours ago, rooski said:

Sorry to hear about your experience with that, I would be frustrated beyond words if I were you.

 

I am absolutely shocked that it would cost $1,200 to ship that though. A 50lb 9'x1'x1' box shipped across the country comes in around $300 on UPS estimator.. Did you ship it next day air or something? 

Did you include insurance ? It’s not like you’re just gonna send a 20k LM without significant insurance on it.

 

300 is ridiculous when their device failed. They should pay for the shipping costs. 

[rooski]

3 hours ago, doctor220 said:

Did you include insurance ? It’s not like you’re just gonna send a 20k LM without significant insurance on it.

 

300 is ridiculous when their device failed. They should pay for the shipping costs. 

 

Yeah great point their site did not include insurance I didn't think about that.

 

Either way, absolutely WILD that you would have to pay anything here. I'd be pissed if I had to cover $20 to ship it back, much less $1,200. That's at a level I'd personally be looking for some legal recourse.

 

 

[Shilgy]

How old is the unit? Still under warranty?

[iacas]

43 minutes ago, Shilgy said:

How old is the unit? Still under warranty?

On 1/29/2024 at 1:20 PM, CallawayLefty said:

Device showed up and LH club data was not working.

 

Pretty sure it's basically brand new.

 

[CallawayLefty]

On 2/15/2024 at 11:49 PM, rooski said:

Sorry to hear about your experience with that, I would be frustrated beyond words if I were you.

 

I am absolutely shocked that it would cost $1,200 to ship that though. A 50lb 9'x1'x1' box shipped across the country comes in around $300 on UPS estimator.. Did you ship it next day air or something? 

I shipped 3rd day with $10k insurance, which was the max you could buy.  I agree with you on the cost and checked the online thing before sending and got a much lower number.  
 

My real problem with Foresight is that I’m not a shipping specialist, nor am I now going to drive all over town “shopping” shipping options to return a product that is their issue to start with.  I’m sure they could have gotten a shipping label for probably $100 or something.  Hell, at least offer to sell me one so this doesn’t happen.  
 

But yeah, I’m sure I got ripped off.  

[CallawayLefty]

On 2/16/2024 at 12:17 PM, iacas said:

 

Pretty sure it's basically brand new.

 

Directly out of the box.   
 

For an overall update, my device is back with foresight.  I have emailed with their repair crew a couple of times.  Unsurprisingly, they are a-holes.  I was told I would get a weekly update on Fridays, but did not receive one yesterday.  
 

I’m half tempted to just write them a legal demand letter or threaten to sue them.  It’s funny how things like this can get so under your skin.  

[st1800e]

25 minutes ago, CallawayLefty said:

nor am I now going to drive all over town “shopping” shipping options

You can do that online. Seems worthwhile to save ~$1000.  And open a free acct on UPS, you’ll get a discount.   

[EagleGSU]

50 minutes ago, CallawayLefty said:

Directly out of the box.   
 

For an overall update, my device is back with foresight.  I have emailed with their repair crew a couple of times.  Unsurprisingly, they are a-holes.  I was told I would get a weekly update on Fridays, but did not receive one yesterday.  
 

I’m half tempted to just write them a legal demand letter or threaten to sue them.  It’s funny how things like this can get so under your skin.  

When you're spending over $10k on a product. You're rightfully pissed. They should be better. Their profit margins are probably thru the roof. 

[AmateurAmateur]

Foresight customer service went off a cliff after they were acquired by Bushnell. 

[Avidswampthing66]

Disgusting.  

[CallawayLefty]

To update my post, Foresight has repaired my unit and shipped it back as of Friday.  Their turnaround time ended up being 16 business days.  I am cautiously optimistic that everything will work fine now.  
 

To be fair, I would say their customer service and communication over this part of the process was acceptable, as was their speed in fixing it.  
 

I will stand by my original complaint that it seems silly that I would have peacefully gone along with all of this if they had just sent me a shipping label.  I even would have paid for that shipping label on the assumption it would have been far cheaper.  I really shouldn’t have been expected to do that, but I’m not unreasonable.  Just a lesson in bad business practices in my opinion.  They left me as a good customer hanging, I proceeded to crap all over them on social media and forums, and it all could have been solved by ME paying for a cheaper label.  

[_chris]

Curious to hear how things go when you get it back. 

[RickM71]

On 2/26/2024 at 10:36 AM, CallawayLefty said:

To update my post, Foresight has repaired my unit and shipped it back as of Friday.  Their turnaround time ended up being 16 business days.  I am cautiously optimistic that everything will work fine now.  
 

To be fair, I would say their customer service and communication over this part of the process was acceptable, as was their speed in fixing it.  
 

I will stand by my original complaint that it seems silly that I would have peacefully gone along with all of this if they had just sent me a shipping label.  I even would have paid for that shipping label on the assumption it would have been far cheaper.  I really shouldn’t have been expected to do that, but I’m not unreasonable.  Just a lesson in bad business practices in my opinion.  They left me as a good customer hanging, I proceeded to crap all over them on social media and forums, and it all could have been solved by ME paying for a cheaper label.  

Is everything working as it should now? I assume they didn't reimburse you any of that shipping expense? This is a perfect example of really poor decision making by their customer support team. They do offer excellent hardware options. I wonder if they are just understaffed, or not trained properly, or what the deal is. When I got my GC3 it took multiple days and emails before I even got the fsx license codes. For such high priced items, it was weird having to keep emailing for included software that is so expensive. 

[CallawayLefty]

6 hours ago, RickM71 said:

Is everything working as it should now? I assume they didn't reimburse you any of that shipping expense? This is a perfect example of really poor decision making by their customer support team. They do offer excellent hardware options. I wonder if they are just understaffed, or not trained properly, or what the deal is. When I got my GC3 it took multiple days and emails before I even got the fsx license codes. For such high priced items, it was weird having to keep emailing for included software that is so expensive. 

Yes, my unit is now working great and I’m really enjoying it.  It’s a shame that this wasn’t handled differently.  As customers go, I would like to consider myself about as reasonable as it gets.  My wife, for example, probably would have threatened them with a lawsuit before paying for that shipping label 🤣.  So it just really disappoints me that it went this particular route.   I do think maybe they are undertrained or understaffed or under empowered. Something led to this crap decision-making. 
 

Oh well.  Life goes on…

[Karazy]

On 4/8/2024 at 8:53 PM, CallawayLefty said:

Yes, my unit is now working great and I’m really enjoying it.  It’s a shame that this wasn’t handled differently.  As customers go, I would like to consider myself about as reasonable as it gets.  My wife, for example, probably would have threatened them with a lawsuit before paying for that shipping label 🤣.  So it just really disappoints me that it went this particular route.   I do think maybe they are undertrained or understaffed or under empowered. Something led to this crap decision-making. 
 

Oh well.  Life goes on…

Kind of an old topic but do you have issues with spinny wedge shots with your hawk, especially when opening the face at all?

I got the Falcon recently and it absolutely hates wedge shots. 

[CallawayLefty]

36 minutes ago, Karazy said:

Kind of an old topic but do you have issues with spinny wedge shots with your hawk, especially when opening the face at all?

I got the Falcon recently and it absolutely hates wedge shots. 

No, I haven’t noticed anything weird on those.  Seems to work pretty good now. 

[bobfoster]

On 2/17/2024 at 2:59 PM, CallawayLefty said:

Directly out of the box.   
 

For an overall update, my device is back with foresight.  I have emailed with their repair crew a couple of times.  Unsurprisingly, they are a-holes.  I was told I would get a weekly update on Fridays, but did not receive one yesterday.  
 

I’m half tempted to just write them a legal demand letter or threaten to sue them.  It’s funny how things like this can get so under your skin.  

Out of curiosity, what would your ideal outcome be? Return it for a full refund (so you could go with another brand)?

 

If so, a demand letter might well be a good idea. Might I suggest a few things however?

 

First, a demand letter should come from an attorney, on the letterhead of a law firm. Such a letter, or a threat of suing, coming from you as a private individual will pretty much be completely ignored by any corporate General Council. The SOP is overwhelmingly to simply not respond. They would only start taking you seriously if a DL came from a law firm.

 

Second, prior to even speaking with an attorney (and incurring the cost), carefully read the Warranty (that, like it or not, you are bound to). I fear chances are good you probably didn't read the Warranty, and your options may be quite limited. BTW, that isn't a criticism ... almost every product these days has a Warranty (in small print, in dense legalese), every app you download has a button that says "Click To Accept" after scrolling through several pages (of equally dense legalese). Virtually no one reads these, nor could they fully understand them (unless they were actually an attorney). As the old meme goes, "Adam and Eve were the first ones to not read the Apple Terms and Conditions". 🤣

 

Point is, before you pay an attorney any money to make your case, make certain you actually have at least the potential for a case. 

 

Finally, consider the fact that you may be an (unfortunate) anomaly. Foresight is quite highly regarded, with generally excellent reviews from credible reviewers and websites. A lot of PGAT guys use their technology. Isn't some fly-by-night gimmicky company - by all accounts they are the real deal who's equipment works well and produces numbers accurate enough for the pros to use. 

 

Thing is, no production assembly line will ever be "perfect". The (very high level, generalized, Six Sigma Black Belt ideal is to hit a major defect rate of 2.5%, but the occasional "burnt potato chip" is gonna come off of any production line. It seems clear you got one, and also seems clear that their customer service and repair procedures have failed you pretty badly (which, ironically may arise from the fact that very few bad units in need of repair get shipped - they literally do not have a process in place). 

 

Just a suggestion? From what I understand from what you've said, I would not waste time with a demand letter (that would be giggled at), nor with trying to deal with the repair team or generic support line. Rather, write a full, clear, succinct (and non-antagonistic) description of your entire experience, and contact senior management directly with it. Let them know you are an enthusiastic golf consumer, that you believed in their technology but got a (clearly) defective unit, and that their process for handling the situation needs work. The tone should be respectful  "constructive criticism", followed by a specific ask for redress (be it a full refund, or simply a completely new replacement unit). 

 

You can get access to these folks pretty easily. I'd start with Mike Weiland, VP of Operations:

https://www.linkedin.com/in/michael-weiland-b01619132/

 

or Lacy Taylor - Director of Retail:

https://www.linkedin.com/in/lacy-taylor-ab769a21/

 

Merely suggesting an alternative approach here. 

[CallawayLefty]

40 minutes ago, bobfoster said:

Out of curiosity, what would your ideal outcome be? Return it for a full refund (so you could go with another brand)?

 

If so, a demand letter might well be a good idea. Might I suggest a few things however?

 

First, a demand letter should come from an attorney, on the letterhead of a law firm. Such a letter, or a threat of suing, coming from you as a private individual will pretty much be completely ignored by any corporate General Council. The SOP is overwhelmingly to simply not respond. They would only start taking you seriously if a DL came from a law firm.

 

Second, prior to even speaking with an attorney (and incurring the cost), carefully read the Warranty (that, like it or not, you are bound to). I fear chances are good you probably didn't read the Warranty, and your options may be quite limited. BTW, that isn't a criticism ... almost every product these days has a Warranty (in small print, in dense legalese), every app you download has a button that says "Click To Accept" after scrolling through several pages (of equally dense legalese). Virtually no one reads these, nor could they fully understand them (unless they were actually an attorney). As the old meme goes, "Adam and Eve were the first ones to not read the Apple Terms and Conditions". 🤣

 

Point is, before you pay an attorney any money to make your case, make certain you actually have at least the potential for a case. 

 

Finally, consider the fact that you may be an (unfortunate) anomaly. Foresight is quite highly regarded, with generally excellent reviews from credible reviewers and websites. A lot of PGAT guys use their technology. Isn't some fly-by-night gimmicky company - by all accounts they are the real deal who's equipment works well and produces numbers accurate enough for the pros to use. 

 

Thing is, no production assembly line will ever be "perfect". The (very high level, generalized, Six Sigma Black Belt ideal is to hit a major defect rate of 2.5%, but the occasional "burnt potato chip" is gonna come off of any production line. It seems clear you got one, and also seems clear that their customer service and repair procedures have failed you pretty badly (which, ironically may arise from the fact that very few bad units in need of repair get shipped - they literally do not have a process in place). 

 

Just a suggestion? From what I understand from what you've said, I would not waste time with a demand letter (that would be giggled at), nor with trying to deal with the repair team or generic support line. Rather, write a full, clear, succinct (and non-antagonistic) description of your entire experience, and contact senior management directly with it. Let them know you are an enthusiastic golf consumer, that you believed in their technology but got a (clearly) defective unit, and that their process for handling the situation needs work. The tone should be respectful  "constructive criticism", followed by a specific ask for redress (be it a full refund, or simply a completely new replacement unit). 

 

You can get access to these folks pretty easily. I'd start with Mike Weiland, VP of Operations:

https://www.linkedin.com/in/michael-weiland-b01619132/

 

or Lacy Taylor - Director of Retail:

https://www.linkedin.com/in/lacy-taylor-ab769a21/

 

Merely suggesting an alternative approach here. 

Thank you for the detailed response.  I chuckled a bit as I am in fact an attorney - and a general counsel at that.  As you suggested, their “warranty” was pretty lacking.  I’m still not sure they ever produced written work product on what it was…other than that I supposedly have one and that the shipping wasn’t covered.  Their practices on this one were complete BS and I actually considered writing them a real demand letter at one point.  My wife - another lawyer - was chomping at the bit to do it.  
 

Either way, they fixed my product in the end which was all I really cared about.  I could have done without 6 weeks of messing around to accept my return, followed by $1k out of my pocket to ship it, followed by another month of waiting to get the unit back.  And Foresight is generally known to be reputable, but you don’t have to do much Googling to find out I’m not the first person to have similar issues with them.  
 

Just a weird experience overall…

[bobfoster]

1 hour ago, CallawayLefty said:

Thank you for the detailed response.  I chuckled a bit as I am in fact an attorney - and a general counsel at that.  As you suggested, their “warranty” was pretty lacking.  I’m still not sure they ever produced written work product on what it was…other than that I supposedly have one and that the shipping wasn’t covered.  Their practices on this one were complete BS and I actually considered writing them a real demand letter at one point.  My wife - another lawyer - was chomping at the bit to do it.  
 

Either way, they fixed my product in the end which was all I really cared about.  I could have done without 6 weeks of messing around to accept my return, followed by $1k out of my pocket to ship it, followed by another month of waiting to get the unit back.  And Foresight is generally known to be reputable, but you don’t have to do much Googling to find out I’m not the first person to have similar issues with them.  
 

Just a weird experience overall…

In truth, I was just trying to be helpful, but I should have inferred that it was help you didn't need. I'm so accustomed to the verbiage you were using that it didn't occur to me that the average guy on the street probably doesn't even know what a "demand letter" is, let alone the formal language that would be needed to write one. Sorta feel a bit dumb going into all of that detail with someone that clearly knew what he was talking about and knew how to handle legal negotiations and tactics, like, I was all 🤣:

 

Edited Wednesday at 03:43 AM by bobfoster

[CallawayLefty]

6 hours ago, bobfoster said:

In truth, I was just trying to be helpful, but I should have inferred that it was help you didn't need. I'm so accustomed to the verbiage you were using that it didn't occur to me that the average guy on the street probably doesn't even know what a "demand letter" is, let alone the formal language that would be needed to write one. Sorta feel a bit dumb going into all of that detail with someone that clearly knew what he was talking about and knew how to handle legal negotiations and tactics, like, I was all 🤣:

 

Well clearly I didn’t do that great here.  I’m the sucker that was without the device for 3 months and got bilked on shipping charges.  No one ever said I was a “good” lawyer…🤣