Did a fitting, got unconventional results on descent and spin

[donny33]

I recently brought my handicap down to the lowest its been (7.5) and decided to get a fitting to see if I can optimize my equipment. I'm currently gaming a set of JPX 921 Forged with Nippon 950NEO stiff.

 

One thing the fitter said after hitting a handful of 7 iron shots with my current clubs is that my spin, peak height, and angle of descent is too low (4800rpm 7i).

I hit a bunch of different clubs and shafts and I was getting the best numbers with the Mizuno 245 with either Project X LZ 6.0 and Nippon Modus 120 stiff.

The weird thing is, both of these shafts are heavier and designed to create lower spin and lower peak height shots AND the 245's have slightly lower loft than my current clubs.

How can this be? Was I taken for a ride by the fitter so he can sell me on new clubs? At no point did we discuss distance as I don't really care about that.

Happy to share a video of my swing if that helps lol. I really would like a sanity check on this from someone who understands this stuff.

[j4663535]

Because the irons are designed to launch high.

[Ger21]

The heads affect launch far more than the shafts.

[Stuart_G]

1 hour ago, donny33 said:

One thing the fitter said after hitting a handful of 7 iron shots with my current clubs is that my spin, peak height, and angle of descent is too low (4800rpm 7i).

 

I'm guessing that was the spin measured off a mat and not grass - and you had a fitter that was clueless about how much mats can potentially reduce the spin with irons.

 

1 hour ago, donny33 said:

The weird thing is, both of these shafts are heavier and designed to create lower spin and lower peak height shots AND the 245's have slightly lower loft than my current clubs.

 

The launch characteristic of the shaft is really a pretty minimal contribution to the dynamic loft you deliver and the amount it might influence things is very dependent on your mechanics.   For some people, the changes in feel - both weight and/or stiffness feel can have a much bigger influence on the results.  And there is no way to predict what that influence might be until you actually test it out.

Edited March 28 by Stuart_G

[donny33]

6 minutes ago, Stuart_G said:

 

I'm guessing that was the spin measured off a mat and not grass - and you had a fitter that was clueless about how much mats can potentially reduce the spin with irons.

 

 

The launch characteristic of the shaft is really a pretty minimal contribution to the dynamic loft you deliver and the amount it might influence things is very dependent on your mechanics.   For some people, the changes in feel - both weight and/or stiffness feel can have a much bigger influence on the results.  And there is no way to predict what that influence might be until you actually test it out.

Okay, this makes sense. The fitter did mention that mats affect spin. Also wouldn't it be a wash since all shots were hit off a mat?

What I'm getting from this is that it is possible that any better launch, descent, and spin that was influenced by the shaft could be outside of the intended purpose of a "low spin" shaft IF it the added weight cause my swing to change in a way where I deliver a strike with MORE dynamic loft. Right?

[K48]

True Temper website has the Project X LZ classified as  Medium spin. 

[Stuart_G]

30 minutes ago, donny33 said:

Okay, this makes sense. The fitter did mention that mats affect spin. Also wouldn't it be a wash since all shots were hit off a mat?

 

Not really.  The better fitters should do their own testing to know exactly how much their particular mat effects the spin and launch for different types of swings and that would give a good idea of what actual on course spin would be.   The good fitters will at least ask the player about what their on course experience with distance  control with the irons to get an idea if it's a problem that needs to be addressed or not.   Also fitting (especially irons) is really all about the relative performance of different options - whether head or shaft.  Any fitter that gets too obsessed with target numbers for irons is loosing sight the big picture - or just doesn't know any better.  There are no ideal target numbers for irons.   

 

Also, IMO shafts should really be fit first and foremost for consistency and dispersion and even feel (including face impact location and consistency).  Also can consider face and path control and maybe swing speed depending on how the person being fit may want to trade off dispersion vs swing speed.   But leave the launch and spin to the head and loft selection, not the shaft selection.

 

30 minutes ago, donny33 said:

What I'm getting from this is that it is possible that any better launch, descent, and spin that was influenced by the shaft could be outside of the intended purpose of a "low spin" shaft IF it the added weight cause my swing to change in a way where I deliver a strike with MORE dynamic loft. Right?

 

For the most part yes.   Dynamic loft is the main factor - but face impact location and consistency, club head speed, AoA, and even face-to-path can also play a part in the change in spin.

Edited March 28 by Stuart_G

[robbie91]

The LZ and Modus 120 fall more into the low-mid launch category and the iron head that you tested is designed to increase launch. You probably weren't taken for a ride assuming that you have you would like to game a set of 245s. What were the numbers? The alternative would be to test a higher launching shaft in a lower launching iron head, but this isn't necessary if you like the set that you were fit for. Personally, I rather like the idea of keeping a stable iron shaft in a slightly higher launching head design. This should offer good control while optimizing the numbers. 

[WristySwing]

22 hours ago, donny33 said:

I recently brought my handicap down to the lowest its been (7.5) and decided to get a fitting to see if I can optimize my equipment. I'm currently gaming a set of JPX 921 Forged with Nippon 950NEO stiff.

 

One thing the fitter said after hitting a handful of 7 iron shots with my current clubs is that my spin, peak height, and angle of descent is too low (4800rpm 7i).

I hit a bunch of different clubs and shafts and I was getting the best numbers with the Mizuno 245 with either Project X LZ 6.0 and Nippon Modus 120 stiff.

The weird thing is, both of these shafts are heavier and designed to create lower spin and lower peak height shots AND the 245's have slightly lower loft than my current clubs.

How can this be? Was I taken for a ride by the fitter so he can sell me on new clubs? At no point did we discuss distance as I don't really care about that.

Happy to share a video of my swing if that helps lol. I really would like a sanity check on this from someone who understands this stuff.

 

All the stuff Stuart said is valid.  However, I have to ask you one thing.  You hit your clubs as a baseline, yes?  You hit the Mizuno irons better than your irons, yes? Then why the self doubt?  You were there, we weren't.  You could see for yourself if the improvement was worth the upgrade cost or not. You saw the differences in the spin, height, etc. People overthink equipment purchases way too much sometimes and forget that the biggest variable, you, is never going to have a perfect little bubble of data to fit into.  

 

If you are itching for a new of clubs, and you saw a noticeable improvement in the 245 vs. your own, email or call the fitter and say you want to come back for a quick follow-up session and try them again. If the improvement stays on trial 2, you're good to go.  Enjoy the sticks.

[YAMS49]

Two pertinent questions. Did you get your peak height & AOD numbers with your current sticks compared to the ones you tried and how did you find the extra shaft weight? Did it help with dispersion and feel 'comfortable' to you? 

 

 

[donny33]

1 hour ago, WristySwing said:

 

All the stuff Stuart said is valid.  However, I have to ask you one thing.  You hit your clubs as a baseline, yes?  You hit the Mizuno irons better than your irons, yes? Then why the self doubt?  You were there, we weren't.  You could see for yourself if the improvement was worth the upgrade cost or not. You saw the differences in the spin, height, etc. People overthink equipment purchases way too much sometimes and forget that the biggest variable, you, is never going to have a perfect little bubble of data to fit into.  

 

If you are itching for a new of clubs, and you saw a noticeable improvement in the 245 vs. your own, email or call the fitter and say you want to come back for a quick follow-up session and try them again. If the improvement stays on trial 2, you're good to go.  Enjoy the sticks.

Hey, this is a great way to look at it. Maybe I was feeling a little guilty on spending a bunch of money on a set of clubs and wanted reassurance that getting into heavier and lower spinning shafts is right for me as a lower spin player.

I actually hit the new clubs for the first time (after the fitting) yesterday and it feels quite different swinging with these shafts, but the ball flight was better and my dispersion was better. 

[donny33]

49 minutes ago, YAMS49 said:

Two pertinent questions. Did you get your peak height & AOD numbers with your current sticks compared to the ones you tried and how did you find the extra shaft weight? Did it help with dispersion and feel 'comfortable' to you? 

 

 

We did get numbers for my current clubs, yes. At the fitting, I was getting better spin and AOD with the heavier shafts. It felt weird as I was used to lighter shafts, but it did feel more "stable", I suppose. It also made me think more about my tempo (if that makes sense).

I preferred the Modus 120 stiff over the Project X LZ 6.0. I liked how it felt softer and I swear I could feel it loading at the start of my downswing.

[WristySwing]

44 minutes ago, donny33 said:

Hey, this is a great way to look at it. Maybe I was feeling a little guilty on spending a bunch of money on a set of clubs and wanted reassurance that getting into heavier and lower spinning shafts is right for me as a lower spin player.

I actually hit the new clubs for the first time (after the fitting) yesterday and it feels quite different swinging with these shafts, but the ball flight was better and my dispersion was better. 

 

Buyer's remorse happens to the best of us, no need to feel guilty. It sounds like you have the best of both worlds here.  Better ball metrics, a shaft you can feel load and unload, tighter dispersion, and in a head that is arguably a little more forgiving and a little hotter than what you currently have.  Really no downside here especially since you hit them and they performed better.  Enjoy the new clubs 🙂

 

[YAMS49]

2 hours ago, donny33 said:

We did get numbers for my current clubs, yes. At the fitting, I was getting better spin and AOD with the heavier shafts. It felt weird as I was used to lighter shafts, but it did feel more "stable", I suppose. It also made me think more about my tempo (if that makes sense).

I preferred the Modus 120 stiff over the Project X LZ 6.0. I liked how it felt softer and I swear I could feel it loading at the start of my downswing.

 

Was your dispersion noticeably different with the heavier shafts? 

 

Modus 120 is much softer in the handle than PX LZ 6.0, that's probably the sensation you were feeling. 

[donny33]

1 hour ago, YAMS49 said:

 

Was your dispersion noticeably different with the heavier shafts? 

 

Modus 120 is much softer in the handle than PX LZ 6.0, that's probably the sensation you were feeling. 

Dispersion was slightly better (when eliminating mishits as I was getting used to the heavier shafts).

[YAMS49]

14 minutes ago, donny33 said:

Dispersion was slightly better (when eliminating mishits as I was getting used to the heavier shafts).

 

OK, well if your numbers were better, dispersion was better and the whole hitting process felt better then you possibly have your answer. Although I would like to test on grass myself across the whole iron range.

 

On the Modus 120. If you're profile sensitive then it's the most 'marmite' iron shaft out there imo. You either love the feel or hate it. Sounds like you're in the former so that's a good thing.