Tightest crispies?

[rbpwrx]

2 hours ago, Poor Mans Ty Webb said:

We were talking about your setup in another thread and I never got back to it, but finding a 125msi 60TX Rogue is very difficult.  Especially one that's long enough to do proper tipping on.  I've been looking for one that I can play at 45" (with an inch tipped) for a while and it's a near dead end.

 

I had a Rogue 125 Silver in 70TX in my driver (tipped 1") and it was a rock solid setup until the shaft snapped and sent the head careening down the range...Had a heck of a time finding a replacement and it will only get tougher as the pool dries up (and prices are at a premium for a shaft that's getting up there in years!).

 

However, I've ultimately transitioned to, and had success with the 130MSI Rogue Silver (not the White).  I play a 70TX in my Mizuno driver @44" with about 0.5-0.75" tipping, and the same shaft @ 45" with no tipping in my Ping driver.  It's basically a slightly lower launching, slightly stiffer 125 Silver.  Still stable and the same basic profile, just tighter (and has a slightly lower balance point)  Takes a bit more effort to load, but you might want to look into the 60TX version and tip it to your heart's delight.  That might be just what you're looking for by dropping down from 70 to 60g.

 

The alternative I was looking at to replace the 125 Silver was probably going to be Ventus TR Black, but I'm generally very pleased with the Rouge 130 Silver and had been wondering if it slipped under your radar...

 

This is great, thanks. I do have a 70X *White* built into a Tourstage 415 that is one of my 'guilty pleasure' drivers. It's soft and sweet and feels great. (The other is a CK White 70X into an R510.)

I had been avoiding the 130msi due to reviews here, and also how much I like the 125. (I am lucky enough to have an extra 125msi 70TX that I shuttle around. It's in a Tourstage 709 430 now. Really good combo.)

But great reminder on the 130msi Silver. I will grab a TX and see what's what!

 

Edited April 23 by rbpwrx

[rbpwrx]

Sounds like I need to try the HULK. I've had it in the cart a few times...

[WristySwing]

16 minutes ago, rbpwrx said:

 

Yes, stable and linear, but softer in the handle, stiffer in the tip. High tip-to-butt ratio.

And yep, I bought a few MXs and an LX, all TX. Didn't love the LX. Built up an MX 60TX the other day, tipped 1", into a 200g Tourstage head. Not a slam dunk. Results were OK. Not great. I could play with it, but felt a little sloppy, materials didn't feel top shelf.

Also have one HZRDUS Green, but it's a 6.5 Smoke iM10. Felt loose to me.

I am curious about the TZ6. Low torque and high-end materials would be a plus. Hard handles don't generally agree with me. Although the Tenei CK Blue line in TX is fine.

 

That sounds to me like you should just stock pile a bunch of NV 2KXV.  You can buy probably buy a dumptruck full of them at this point for about 100 quid seeing as it is long old tech. They made a hard to find TX model but it exists ( I saw one in the flesh). An old thread dug up the EI curve of it and it is the Rogue 125 almost exactly. (See this thread).  Heck you could probably by the NV '23, which is based on these old profiles for like $35 USD and just tip a bunch until it feels right on several practice shafts and then buy one once you figure it out and it would still probably cost you less than a used Hulk, VF, or RPG.

[rbpwrx]

6 minutes ago, WristySwing said:

That sounds to me like you should just stock pile a bunch of NV 2KXV.  You can buy probably buy a dumptruck full of them at this point for about 100 quid seeing as it is long old tech. They made a hard to find TX model but it exists ( I saw one in the flesh). An old thread dug up the EI curve of it and it is the Rogue 125 almost exactly. (See this thread).  Heck you could probably by the NV '23, which is based on these old profiles for like $35 USD and just tip a bunch until it feels right on several practice shafts and then buy one once you figure it out and it would still probably cost you less than a used Hulk, VF, or RPG.

 

Interesting. I didn't ever love the NV, so I've never tried any of its offspring. Strangely, I love the VS Proto. But you're right, cheap experiment.

 

I suspect a lot of this is about the materials used in the layup. The 125 was an $800 shaft, back in the day. And I suspect the Zyvex in the VS Proto may have something to do with its mystique. Feel can be such a finicky thing...

 

Edited April 23 by rbpwrx

[Poor Mans Ty Webb]

1 minute ago, rbpwrx said:

I had been avoiding the 130msi due to reviews here, and also how much I like the 125.

 

I'm just some schmo on the internet, but my understanding is that The 130 MSI Silver and White were different from the 125, so people who found their "forever" shaft in the 125 were looking for the exact same thing, and while it's not quite 1:1, it's still good (there was also all sorts of confusion about wildly different profiles between the X and TX flex versions).

 

From what I can tell, the 125 TX was basically bifurcated into 130 White TX, which was a slight margin softer and more counterbalanced, and 130 Silver TX, which was a slight margin stiffer and less counterbalanced.  I can't recall how the weights in the 60 and 70g classes compared.  So Aldila gave us two new Rogue options; neither were the 125, but both are still very good shafts.  I imagine that the 125 is the happy medium between the two, and you've just got to figure out on which side of the fence you fall.  Speculatively, if what you liked about the old 125 was the load-unload feel then you're probably a 130 White TX person, and if what you liked about the old 125 was the stability then you're probably a 130 Silver TX person (ignoring actual LM data and individual testing of both shafts).

 

When I was shopping around, I basically figured I'd either get a 70TX White and tip it or get a 70TX Silver and leave it untipped - both options overlap and probably play pretty similarly.  I just happened to find an uncut silver on eBay first, and it's working for me so it's what we're sticking with until I'm forced to change (again).

 

I still play Rogue 125 in all my fairway woods and my SLDR mini, and it's a more smooth/lively shaft than the 130 Silver, which is a pretty stout test in TX (but not quite "rebar" stout).  In the driver, I can get away with being basically as aggressive as I want in transition, but I don't feel like I have to get quick twitch/fast tempo'd going back to properly load it.

 

It's really a shame that the Rogue series is pretty much dead in the water.  One day the availability of old stock will all but dry up and we'll likely be forced into the likes of GD-VF and Ventus Black TR in search of something we'll never quite get back.

 

[rbpwrx]

8 minutes ago, Poor Mans Ty Webb said:

I'm just some schmo on the internet, but my understanding is that The 130 MSI Silver and White were different from the 125, so people who found their "forever" shaft in the 125 were looking for the exact same thing, and while it's not quite 1:1, it's still good (there was also all sorts of confusion about wildly different profiles between the X and TX flex versions).

 

From what I can tell, the 125 TX was basically bifurcated into 130 White TX, which was a slight margin softer and more counterbalanced, and 130 Silver TX, which was a slight margin stiffer and less counterbalanced.  I can't recall how the weights in the 60 and 70g classes compared.  So Aldila gave us two new Rogue options; neither were the 125, but both are still very good shafts.  I imagine that the 125 is the happy medium between the two, and you've just got to figure out on which side of the fence you fall.  Speculatively, if what you liked about the old 125 was the load-unload feel then you're probably a 130 White TX person, and if what you liked about the old 125 was the stability then you're probably a 130 Silver TX person (ignoring actual LM data and individual testing of both shafts).

 

When I was shopping around, I basically figured I'd either get a 70TX White and tip it or get a 70TX Silver and leave it untipped - both options overlap and probably play pretty similarly.  I just happened to find an uncut silver on eBay first, and it's working for me so it's what we're sticking with until I'm forced to change (again).

 

I still play Rogue 125 in all my fairway woods and my SLDR mini, and it's a more smooth/lively shaft than the 130 Silver, which is a pretty stout test in TX (but not quite "rebar" stout).  In the driver, I can get away with being basically as aggressive as I want in transition, but I don't feel like I have to get quick twitch/fast tempo'd going back to properly load it.

 

It's really a shame that the Rogue series is pretty much dead in the water.  One day the availability of old stock will all but dry up and we'll likely be forced into the likes of GD-VF and Ventus Black TR in search of something we'll never quite get back.

 

We're all just schmoes on the internet! That should be the tagline of this forum 🙂

 

And agreed on the 125. It's definitely the closest I've come to what I'm looking for. And it is a bummer they're so hard to find. (Unbelievably, I got both of mine for around $40 each, in great shape, one at 45" and one at 46"!)

I think I'd veer more toward the 130 White TX. I like counterbalance, and I like the load/ unload of the 125. I'm assuming they're all pretty stable torsionally. Aldila was kind of known for that.

BTW, the Rogue Black in 95TX makes a very serviceable hybrid shaft. It's not outstanding in any way, but it's very 'neutral.' I can work it however I want. Reminds me of a Nippon GH iron. Understated, muted, but fair and functional.

The 130 I have is a 70X. Soft through the middle, if I recall. But nice and stable throughout anyway. A pleasure to hit. I think I'll start with the 70TX 130 White, and see.

[AdamMH]

1 hour ago, rbpwrx said:

I seem to max out at 430cc for being able to look at it. And that's deep face, pear head. I figure if Tiger could hit it 360 with X100 in an old 975, then what's my excuse? Also, I've tried more modern heads. But I'm good with the R7 Quad and the Tourstage 909/709. Both weighted, look great, feel great, sound great. Went through a bunch of heads to settle on those. Although I wouldn't mind a TSR4 in a few years...

Woah, cut yourself a little slack! Tiger has been known to swing up to 130MPH. That isn't mere mortal territory. I wouldn't be surprised if he was swinging the 975 above that number either.

[rbpwrx]

BTW, threw a CK Pro Orange 60TX into a Tourstage 909 head last night, and liked it. Similar to the 70TX I have in FW. Straight, strong, simple. Dude had it in a fairway, so full driver is only 43". I'm gonna hit a few more, and will likely extend the handle. But it works.

[rbpwrx]

14 minutes ago, AdamMH said:

Woah, cut yourself a little slack! Tiger has been known to swing up to 130MPH. That isn't mere mortal territory. I wouldn't be surprised if he was swinging the 975 above that number either.

I'm just saying, it's not the arrow, it's the archer. The stuff I'm playing may be 10 years out of date, but it's been used to win majors. Recently. Not a wooden tennis racket. Stenson played his Diablo w/ OG Blue for how long? Until last year, I think??
 

Edited April 23 by rbpwrx

[phizzy30]

10 hours ago, rbpwrx said:

I really like the RPG Gold 462 M5+. Can't bring myself to sell it. I'd be gaming it, but it takes a good swing on my part to load that handle. Some days it's cake, others it's too much.

 

Keep it.  It's an awesome shaft but takes some work to load.

Edited April 24 by phizzy30

[TJ83]

I'm gonna throw the Kuro Kage Dual Core 70 tx into this mix. I was probably my favorite shaft of all time. It seemed to tighten up the harder you swung at it. My ss is around 124 and it felt nice when smoothed and also seemed to get more stable the harder I went at it. This was untipped. I'm sure you could find one if you look, has to be the "TX" though because it completely different profile and materials to the stock dual core tini. 

 

Also ill say I'm enjoying this new Diamana WB 63tx. Smooth but tight and stable. Slightly softer than the Ventus Black tr 6x I've been playing for a year and a half. I've also had ventus black 6x and a 6x tipped 2 inches. The 6x tipped 2 inches was a pole, I had to tip it because it was de-laminating under the adapter when changing tips 😅

[Wardman]

20 hours ago, rbpwrx said:

 

Sure, thanks:

Profile: very stiff tip, stiff middle, firm handle. On paper, GD's new Victory Force is just about perfect. (Their XC would probably feel great with its super soft handle, but maybe too much of a good thing. I'm afraid to try either for budgetary reasons.)

Torque: the lower the better. Definitely sub 3*, preferably sub 2.5*, sub 2* even better.

I realize that's unusual, but it's actually similar to steel. Which is what I grew up on.

I'm still hitting my X100 983E fairly often. And I'm struck by how naturally and closely the clubhead follows my hands. Feels very 'tight' in that way. But still flexy. Loads easily. Unlike some modern TX graphite shafts, which can be stiffer in profile, but looser in torque.

 

Love my XC so far. VF was more stiff but probably could play either.  Paired with 3D and doing well. 

[AmateurAmateur]

LA golf Bryson series.

[rbpwrx]

2 hours ago, TJ83 said:

I'm gonna throw the Kuro Kage Dual Core 70 tx into this mix.

 

Good call. That was on my short list, but I got a first gen KK Black hybrid, and did NOT like it, so I kind of forgot about the line. I hear the Dual Core/ TiNi is a different animal.

[rbpwrx]

1 hour ago, Wardman said:

Love my XC so far. VF was more stiff but probably could play either.  Paired with 3D and doing well. 

Yeah, that soft handle would probably feel great. That's like candy for me. But I know slightly firmer in the handle is better for my score. 

[rbpwrx]

39 minutes ago, AmateurAmateur said:

LA golf Bryson series.

 

Interesting. I had a Trono 75TX. Liked it, but not enough to keep it. What would you say are the differences between Trono and Bryson line?

[AmateurAmateur]

47 minutes ago, rbpwrx said:

 

Interesting. I had a Trono 75TX. Liked it, but not enough to keep it. What would you say are the differences between Trono and Bryson line?

Haven’t hit Trono enough to compare it. 
Bryson series was relatively stout but had a subtle kick that I felt could have been better placed a couple inches further down the shaft. 
If you’re going with the X flex and not TX then by tipping it a good 1.5” or whatever you’re looking for should move that kick further down the shaft without it getting too boardy.

[jaffabell]

On 4/23/2024 at 4:57 PM, rbpwrx said:

I seem to max out at 430cc for being able to look at it. And that's deep face, pear head. I figure if Tiger could hit it 360 with X100 in an old 975, then what's my excuse? Also, I've tried more modern heads. But I'm good with the R7 Quad and the Tourstage 909/709. Both weighted, look great, feel great, sound great. Went through a bunch of heads to settle on those. Although I wouldn't mind a TSR4 in a few years...

Yeah I was actually thinking about the TSR4... 

[rbpwrx]

Went head to head today, OG Blue X vs CKP Orange 60TX vs Rogue Silver 125msi 70TX. Hands down, Silver 125. Maybe not the tightest or the crispest, but definitely the best results AND best feel. They put some magic stuff in that shaft.