Leadbetter overrated? Opinions wanted.

[need2compress]

My friend and I recently had a dispute over the greatness of David Leadbetter. My buddy thinks he is the greatest golf instructor ever, I believe he may be a little overrated. I cited failures such as Wie and Tryon, but he wouldn't budge. Forum members I would like your opinion.

 

 

 

Note:My prejudice against Leadbetter began after I read the book he put out which interpreted Hogan's swing. The book first explained what Hogan did and then Leadbetter would interject his theories on each part of the swing and what he believed should be done. The book turned from a guide to Hogans swing to a sales pitch for the Leadbetter way.

[KevCarter]

My friend and I recently had a dispute over the greatness of David Leadbetter. My buddy thinks he is the greatest golf instructor ever, I believe he may be a little overrated. I cited failures such as Wie and Tryon, but he wouldn't budge. Forum members I would like your opinion.

 

 

 

Note:My prejudice against Leadbetter began after I read the book he put out which interpreted Hogan's swing. The book first explained what Hogan did and then Leadbetter would interject his theories on each part of the swing and what he believed should be done. The book turned from a guide to Hogans swing to a sales pitch for the Leadbetter way.

 

All swing theories can easily be debated, and are...

 

Teaching is a job. One way of measuring "greatness" would be the level of success achieved, and I would say Mr. Leadbetter is one of the most successful teachers in golf history.

 

Kevin

[BD57]

Leadbetter's an excellent teacher who's suffered some self-inflicted injuries from the efforts to stay in the public eye.

 

His first book does a wonderful job of breaking the golf swing down into component parts. That he's always said the swing MOVES through these positions has largely been ignored, with the result that he's criticized as "mechanical." Having had one lesson with him (back when he was at Grenelefe in Haines City, Florida) and dozens with people he's trained, I can say the "mechanical" criticism is false.

 

The "self-inflicted injuries" come from continuing to churn out product when he's already exhausted the subject. In terms of books about the swing itself, the first one & "Faults and Fixes" are the most valuable - the rest amount to repetition of points already made. The same can be said about videos/DVD's.

 

IMO, the Hogan book is VERY worthwhile - Leadbetter fairly discusses what Hogan wrote, the pictures of Hogan themselves are worth the price of admission & his analysis is worthwhile.

 

I guess I'm saying Leadbetter's an excellent teacher who's overexposed & people confuse the overexposure for being "overrated."

 

BTW - as far as students are concerned, look at guys like Nick Price too ... the student has A HUGE ROLE in whether the student/teacher collaboration will ultimately be "successful."

[Lake]

Leadbetter's an excellent teacher who's suffered some self-inflicted injuries from the efforts to stay in the public eye.

 

His first book does a wonderful job of breaking the golf swing down into component parts. That he's always said the swing MOVES through these positions has largely been ignored, with the result that he's criticized as "mechanical." Having had one lesson with him (back when he was at Grenelefe in Haines City, Florida) and dozens with people he's trained, I can say the "mechanical" criticism is false.

 

The "self-inflicted injuries" come from continuing to churn out product when he's already exhausted the subject. In terms of books about the swing itself, the first one & "Faults and Fixes" are the most valuable - the rest amount to repetition of points already made. The same can be said about videos/DVD's.

 

IMO, the Hogan book is VERY worthwhile - Leadbetter fairly discusses what Hogan wrote, the pictures of Hogan themselves are worth the price of admission & his analysis is worthwhile.

 

I guess I'm saying Leadbetter's an excellent teacher who's overexposed & people confuse the overexposure for being "overrated."

 

BTW - as far as students are concerned, look at guys like Nick Price too ... the student has A HUGE ROLE in whether the student/teacher collaboration will ultimately be "successful."

 

Nice post BD!!! Spot On.

[dfw1500]

Leadbetter is a great coach but IMOP has lost some of his core beliefs and has tried to reinvent himself with different ways of coaching so that he appears to be inventive and intuitive with his ideas.....I know that he is now using K vest and having had experience with this myself think that it is massively overrated and does not actually help with core ideas in the golf swing..

 

I think the job that he has done with Michelle Wie is poor and Tryon is not good but we are failing to look at others such as Trevor Immelman who surely has one of the best modern swings on tour and his early success with Nick faldo and Nick Price.

 

I for one wish that Leadbetter would stop money train and instead concentrate on what made him good in the 1st place as he is one of the 1st coaches to start using props etc.

 

cheers Dan

[Tanner25]

Have never seen him hit a full shot - not impressed.

[sheldonjhacker]

Overratred cuz so many of his "former" players either bad-mouth him or just move on to Butch. Read Faldo's book.

 

Lead has become a marketing machine chasing $ selling lots of gadgets and other crap which makes the swing too mechanical. Just look at Ernie lately....he's now working with Butch.

 

:)

[ChrisM84]

Since when is Ernie Els going to Butch Harmon?

[c010r4d0g01f3r]

Since when is Ernie Els going to Butch Harmon?

 

For the last couple of days? not sure the time frame but there have been rumors that Ernie has been working with Butch a bit on his swing...

[McGuire]

I'm sure Lead has helped more then a few golfers get better

 

ask Nick Price if he would be flying around on his lear jet if not for Lead

 

as for his full shot ... looks pretty smooth to me

[dminn23]

Have never seen him hit a full shot - not impressed.

 

 

Uhhh....okay. I'm not sure what that means but this statement sounds kind of silly.

 

There have been many criticisms of Leadbetter, but in all truth, he seems like a great guy. His video in the early 90s is nothing short of great for a golf swing that really layed out the modern fundamentals. I've heard first hand that he is a very generous man, and from others that have attended his clinics, very, very passionate and energetic. To me, fantastic qualities. I don't think hes overrated.

 

Many people try to supplement quality, face to face instruction with a book. That is okay, but when things go wrong, its usually the player, but they will divert the blame to the book/instructor. Feel is not real. In regards to people switching "from" Leadbetter.....he got them in the first place. Must be a great instructor.

[stealthontour]

Lead's up there with the best teachers of the game, all time... He's views and practises had alot of people thinking he was mad in the beginning, but just look at his Major Winner count...

 

He wasn't given the 'full control' he wanted/needed over Wie to make her a sucess, many other influences in that department which there are many theads already running....

Tryon was very ill, and alot of amazing 'kids' don't make the transission to sucessful '20 something' pro.. Look at Justin Rose, turned pro at 18, bombed for 4 years, missed more cuts than ate hot dinners and Lead turned him around, and although Justin is now back with the coach he started with as a junior Lead gave him the 'golf education' that most college players get if they don't turn pro until early 20's (Luke Donald etc, etc)

 

Coaches go around, in and out of favor, he'll be back coaching a top 10 player again soon. There are alot of coaches and inventors out there now that have taken Lead's ideas and developed them into their own styles and products.

[Jeff Evans]

Over-rated or mis-understood! I spent time with DL back in his day at Lake Nona in the early 90's. Individually 1 on 1 he is outstanding. David might have spread himself thin but over-all he knows his stuff.

[Machinegolfer]

I'm sure leadbetter is a good overall instructor, there is much more to it then just being knowledgeable about the golf swing

[gators78]

I know he has had some great pupils from before, ie Price and Faldo, but I'm starting to wonder now if the roles of Teacher and Businessman are starting to have different priorities, especially with businessman coming first lately.

 

My other take on this is I think there is too much credit given to tour instructors, both in success and failure. I really think its a lot harder to take a 100's shooter and turn him into a 80-70's shooter than it is to take a tour pro who has won previously and just revamped some confidence so they can win again.

[ChrisM84]

Since when is Ernie Els going to Butch Harmon?

 

For the last couple of days? not sure the time frame but there have been rumors that Ernie has been working with Butch a bit on his swing...

 

Yep, saw it in the General golf forum.

[Swingtheclub]

tryron sounds like another burnt out talent

 

I am not sure what Wie's problem is I do not think the girl is very bright but I think her playing problems of late have little to do with her instructor.

 

Not sure I would want to take lessons from David but I am sure he is a knowledgeable instructor and he has the credentials to back it up.

 

Just the same I think it long reached the point its more about the money

 

Ken-

[dminn23]

tryron sounds like another burnt out talent

 

I am not sure what Wie's problem is I do not think the girl is very bright but I think her playing problems of late have little to do with her instructor.

 

Not sure I would want to take lessons from David but I am sure he is a knowledgeable instructor and he has the credentials to back it up.

 

Just the same I think it long reached the point its more about the money

 

Ken-

 

 

Wie doesn't have a problem, per say, I think she has made a lot of money, now she wants to enjoy her youth. College can be a lot of fun. I just graduated last year, she should enjoy herself, act her age, goto some parties, get drunk underage, do all the things that normal kids do.....for a while.

[birdie_man]

Overrated?

 

Simple answer:

 

IMO: Very.

 

...

 

As for successful.......

 

If you are talking about money and recognition 1st and foremost you certainly are correct.

 

As for his teaching, I think he must know some stuff.....but too much of what I have seen is disappointing.

[birdie_man]

Wie doesn't have a problem, per say, I think she has made a lot of money, now she wants to enjoy her youth. College can be a lot of fun. I just graduated last year, she should enjoy herself, act her age, goto some parties, get drunk underage, do all the things that normal kids do.....for a while.

 

U may have a point actually.

 

For all the talk about her goals and her seemingly dedicated attitude to me I see a pretty normal girl who happens to be a gifted golfer.

 

I still think there is something going on with her swing mechanically though. (I haven't seen enough recently but for starters I suspect a lack of axis tilt.....esp. with driver)

[fife321]

Butch basically said that Leadbetter is the godfather of instructors in terms of the way he's made it a business, still....

 

Butch seems to work with his students swing and perfects what they have (and tweeks it a bit), where as Leadbetter seems to teach a certain swing, almost robotic in some ways....no doubt leadbetter could make any of us much better, but if i had a choice, i'll take butch every day...

[Machinegolfer]

Teaching golf is not as easy as many think, I believe Leadbetter is a good instructor, the most knowledgeable? No, probably not, but being able to communicate with his students and make things simple? sure, I think so...Are there other teachers more deserving to have the type of authority and power over the world of golf instruction, sure...but it could be worse