Accused of slow play and punished! What do you think?

[roll - gybe]

Wow, lots of responses!

 

I agree - you guys only got my side of the story. Finishing in 4:05 when recommended time was 4:00 is exactly true. The fact that my dad almost got pegged with a drive is exactly true. The ranger did put the blame on us, which is how this whole thing became totally mindblowing to me. As far as tampering with the ball hit at us, I actually put a single tee 1" behind the ball just so everyone would know we were right there. I never touched it though, but I bet that didn't help the situation too much!

 

Some of you asked about the course- it's an upstate NY Donald Ross that costs about $75 to play. Nice place, but they are known for being psychos about the speed of play. Most people walk this course, but my dad and father-in-law were riding due to one of them having a bad hip. You can drive everywhere on the course pretty much, so no "cart-path only" issues. I'm in the NC area, but my in-laws spend a lot of time up there. Things seem different playing in the North. Not as many good golfers and more confrontations on the course in my limited oppinion.

 

Now as far as keeping up with the 3-some in front of us, here is another piece of info. That group was my wife, who is a single digit and both our moms, who are bad golfers. The way they both play is they bunt the ball 90 yards with no compression and no spin. If they hit into a hazard or sand trap, they quit the hole. They don't expect to hit good shots, and they have no pre-shot routine. Gimmes from 10 feet. If they pass triple, they just take a 9 or 10 and move on. They all hit at the same time, because they can't hurt anyone with the velocity of their shots! They don't really play golf, they go for a long walk! The result is they get done very quickly and have scores you can't even post.

 

Keeping up with them in a 4-some isn't really possible.

 

Based on time, we were one shot off published course pace. I don't really think keeping up with them was the single most important thing to do. But I know it looks bad not to keep up with a group in front of you. Here are some other things that I think looks bad on our part, just to paint the picture fully:

-Playing off 2 sets of tees

-Playing with a 79 year old (even though he hits it 200+)

-Playing with a 67 year old who tops a few balls

-Then some young guy who wants to line up his putts

 

If I saw this in front of me, I think I might judge them based on these criteria and get annoyed. That's why I made sure throughout the round that everyone was in position, and carts were properly parked on the correct side of the green. We weren't going to get a lot of slack. Trust me, it is a lot of effort on my part to watch these guys' every move for 4 hours. I kept a lookout for letting the group behind us through, but we never had a speedy chance to do it without slowing the rest of the groups down more. So after all that - 5 minutes off pace.

[777twist]

Why don't courses setup days and times for different types of handicaps? Like, no-handicap sunday or to play before noon, you must have an established handicap of 15 or better.

...

 

When I mentioned that to you a couple of days ago you called me pompous.

 

Damn, I told myself to stop replying to you... :rolleyes:

 

Kevin

 

 

Hehehe, that's soooo pompous of you "Damn, I told myself to stop replying to you... :yes: ."

 

I hope you keep replying, you are the person I'm trying to change. You are the stuck in time guy...I have run across many of you in my lifetime. You don't like change, you don't like NEW or Young...it's all about the wise old men who created this or that.

 

I will give it up for the old guys for creating a fun game... but it's not like they made it perfect, that's why there are always changes to the rules. And that's what I don't like about a lot of your comments, they are stuck way back in the day. If you don't like the pace of play situation...well, you aren't just paid to be a jackass on the course, you are paid to make things better. So try thinking outside the box...sure there will no doubt be some failures along the way...but when you come up with something that changes the face of golf as we know it, then KevCarter will go down in history as one of the best things to ever happen to golf... instead of some lazy pompous golf snob.

 

Awaiting your reply...hehehe

[KevCarter]

Hehehe, that's soooo pompous of you "Damn, I told myself to stop replying to you... :rolleyes: ."

 

I hope you keep replying, you are the person I'm trying to change. You are the stuck in time guy...I have run across many of you in my lifetime. You don't like change, you don't like NEW or Young...it's all about the wise old men who created this or that.

 

I will give it up for the old guys for creating a fun game... but it's not like they made it perfect, that's why there are always changes to the rules. And that's what I don't like about a lot of your comments, they are stuck way back in the day. If you don't like the pace of play situation...well, you aren't just paid to be a jackass on the course, you are paid to make things better. So try thinking outside the box...sure there will no doubt be some failures along the way...but when you come up with something that changes the face of golf as we know it, then KevCarter will go down in history as one of the best things to ever happen to golf... instead of some lazy pompous golf snob.

 

Awaiting your reply...hehehe

[Well Played]

Here are some other things that I think looks bad on our part, just to paint the picture fully:

-Playing off 2 sets of tees

-Playing with a 79 year old (even though he hits it 200+)

-Playing with a 67 year old who tops a few balls

-Then some young guy who wants to line up his putts

 

If I saw this in front of me, I think I might judge them based on these criteria and get annoyed.

 

 

"Don't sell yourself short judge, you're a tremendous slouch."

 

OK, seriously, there is nothing wrong with any of these. Bottom line is, 18 holes in under 4:30 is a perfectly acceptable pace. I disagree with those on this thread who think there is no reason to play in over 4 hours if nobody is in front of you. 4 hours and under for a foursome is moving... Kudos if you can get it done, but I think in most cases it is unreasonable to expect this.

[Giantbear]

I don't care who you are, i don't care how slow the pace, i don't care how good the golfers. There is never ever any reason or justification for purposefully hitting into a group or at a person. Ever. (with the rare exception of John Candy in Uncle Buck, the bug had it coming). Anyone doing so should be thrown off the course and banned. Period. There is also never any reason to turn a non-physical confrontation into a physical one. Even if the guy just hit into you. And yes, in addition to being hit into many times, i have also been hit 7 times. Believe me, it hurts. A lot. I am also not a slow player, walking i usually finish with my foursome at around the 4 hour mark, give or take 10 min.

[KevCarter]

If you don't like the pace of play situation...well, you aren't just paid to be a jackass on the course

 

When was I a jackass on the course?

 

 

you are paid to make things better. So try thinking outside the box

 

Do I work for you?

 

 

instead of some lazy pompous golf snob.

 

Who do you think you are? Who do you think you're talking to?

 

Kevin

[scs1070]

I hate slow play, but I hate Rangers more. Sounds like the range was buddy's with group who probably play there a good bit.

[Hifade]

Hehehe, that's soooo pompous of you "Damn, I told myself to stop replying to you... :rolleyes: ."

 

I hope you keep replying, you are the person I'm trying to change. You are the stuck in time guy...I have run across many of you in my lifetime. You don't like change, you don't like NEW or Young...it's all about the wise old men who created this or that.

 

I will give it up for the old guys for creating a fun game... but it's not like they made it perfect, that's why there are always changes to the rules. And that's what I don't like about a lot of your comments, they are stuck way back in the day. If you don't like the pace of play situation...well, you aren't just paid to be a jackass on the course, you are paid to make things better. So try thinking outside the box...sure there will no doubt be some failures along the way...but when you come up with something that changes the face of golf as we know it, then KevCarter will go down in history as one of the best things to ever happen to golf... instead of some lazy pompous golf snob.

 

Awaiting your reply...hehehe

 

 

WTF??? Is this necessary? I think we can have a "spirited" debate without all the BS, taunting and name calling, can't we? Please learn to make points without making them personal. Clean it up or this will be closed.

[DemolitionMan]

I know I am going to get attacked by all the current and former rangers on this site, but keep in mind, I am not saying all rangers are bad. The vast majority do an amazing and invaluable job, but there are those out there who are completely clueless and just plain stupid!

 

You won't get attacked here by a ranger, they get no leeway hereMy faor. Don't kid yourself the vast majority of rangers are nothing even remotely near doing an amazing and invaluable job. The vast majority are a drain on resources and nothing more than glorified welfare. I have played on a ton of courses and witnessed many a ranger do absolutely nothing productive. Not once have I ever come across a ranger and said to myself 'wow, that guy is doing a great job.'

 

Just in the past two weeks I have had one ranger do nothing with total slow play on the course resulting in a 5:15 round, another ranger while doing nothing about the group two groups ahead holding everyone up had the gall to ask me if I had food in my cart purchased off the course, another ranger ask me if there was a problem while I was waiting on the tee as if I was holding anyone up (nearest group was 1.5 holes behind me), and another ranger claim there was nothing he could do to speed up three very slow groups and that I should just skip a few holes.

 

My favorite display of lunacy by a course and rangers is when the course has GPS on all the carts. You can see where the bottlenecks are in the pro shop, and nothing gets done. Thanks to the PGA Tour slow play is a very big problem all over golf, but worse than that is the collective bunch of rangers who do not do a damn thing helpful to this game. If they had any small amount of self respect, they would simply do us all a favor and quit.

[labillyboy]

I would have filed a police report and had my lawyer write letters to the club, the owners of the club individually and possibly write a letter to the editor.

 

In case you don't realize it, you were assaulted.... with a deadly weapon. With the consent of an employee of the golf course... If that would have hit your dad, you might be the proud owner of your own golf course... and a couple people would be sitting in the graybar hotel.

 

I don't give a crap if you were an hour behind, there is never a reason to hit into anyone on a golf course.

 

What if I pulled out my Glock and fired a .40 cal slug over your head because I thought you were playing too slow? Think I might end up in jail? Just maybe? There is ZERO difference here.

 

I am not a guy who has to race around a golf course, I like to enjoy playing golf... I happen to be a very fast player but can deal with slow play caused by others... here in So Cal on a muni you are lucky to play in 5 hours... try 6 or more on weekend afternoons.

 

If you don't have an extra hour in your day and you lack control over your temper then quit golf and pick up tennis...

[777twist]

Hehehe, that's soooo pompous of you "Damn, I told myself to stop replying to you... :rolleyes: ."

 

I hope you keep replying, you are the person I'm trying to change. You are the stuck in time guy...I have run across many of you in my lifetime. You don't like change, you don't like NEW or Young...it's all about the wise old men who created this or that.

 

I will give it up for the old guys for creating a fun game... but it's not like they made it perfect, that's why there are always changes to the rules. And that's what I don't like about a lot of your comments, they are stuck way back in the day. If you don't like the pace of play situation...well, you aren't just paid to be a jackass on the course, you are paid to make things better. So try thinking outside the box...sure there will no doubt be some failures along the way...but when you come up with something that changes the face of golf as we know it, then KevCarter will go down in history as one of the best things to ever happen to golf... instead of some lazy pompous golf snob.

 

Awaiting your reply...hehehe

 

 

WTF??? Is this necessary? I think we can have a "spirited" debate without all the BS, taunting and name calling, can't we? Please learn to make points without making them personal. Clean it up or this will be closed.

 

 

Kev drew first blood! I'm really just messing with him. In another thread he pulled out the "maybe I need to attend golf rules classes and learn why the rules are there, blah, blah, blah" in response to one of my suggestions. To me, that just came off very pompous. I'm not the type of person to sit around and just complain about things that are wrong, I will always come up with ideas to fix the situation or I won't complain! But really I hate running into road blocks from people who also have the same problems but also won't open their eyes to change.

 

So I will stop messing with Kev, he just rubbed me the wrong way.

[larrybud]

I hate slow play as much as anybody, and whizzing a driver into you guys is completely uncalled for. In addition, FIVE MINUTES behind is nothing. How do they even measure that? I mean, a 4 hour round is 13 minutes a hole. So you're not even a half of a hole behind.

 

I also think rangers need to monitor a group instead of just a knee jerk lapse time. I've certainly been on a hole there a couple of people have some trouble, and we fall 5 minutes behind, but it's made up just as easily as it was lost. It's not as if every 3 holes you fell 5 minutes behind.

[sigmapete1]

I know I am going to get attacked by all the current and former rangers on this site, but keep in mind, I am not saying all rangers are bad. The vast majority do an amazing and invaluable job, but there are those out there who are completely clueless and just plain stupid!

 

You won't get attacked here by a ranger, they get no leeway hereMy faor. Don't kid yourself the vast majority of rangers are nothing even remotely near doing an amazing and invaluable job. The vast majority are a drain on resources and nothing more than glorified welfare. I have played on a ton of courses and witnessed many a ranger do absolutely nothing productive. Not once have I ever come across a ranger and said to myself 'wow, that guy is doing a great job.'

 

Just in the past two weeks I have had one ranger do nothing with total slow play on the course resulting in a 5:15 round, another ranger while doing nothing about the group two groups ahead holding everyone up had the gall to ask me if I had food in my cart purchased off the course, another ranger ask me if there was a problem while I was waiting on the tee as if I was holding anyone up (nearest group was 1.5 holes behind me), and another ranger claim there was nothing he could do to speed up three very slow groups and that I should just skip a few holes.

 

My favorite display of lunacy by a course and rangers is when the course has GPS on all the carts. You can see where the bottlenecks are in the pro shop, and nothing gets done. Thanks to the PGA Tour slow play is a very big problem all over golf, but worse than that is the collective bunch of rangers who do not do a damn thing helpful to this game. If they had any small amount of self respect, they would simply do us all a favor and quit.

 

 

I agree, I was just trying to be nice to all the Rangers that may read this. Although I suspect that the ones who frequent sites like this are the good ones. The bad ones spend their time hanging out in the clubhouse watching the Champions Tour events and taking a drive through the course once every 3 hours to find a group with an open hole in front of them and yell at them with no idea what the reason for the gap is.

 

I could go on for hours with terrible ranger stories. Maybe its a good topic for a new post.....

[yoshiod9]

i am absolutely amazed at the ranger's response to you. i honestly cannot believe that someone who works at the course to promote the game would say something like that.

[HeadonaStick]

For whatever reason I dont think this is exactly what happened. I hate slow play and have played 18 holes in a cart in less than 1.5 hours. I've never intentionally hit into someone, seems a bit childish. If your story is true then its absolutely ridiculous on the part of the course, ranger, and the group behind you. However if you were holding this group up ALL day or even for the 5-6 holes on the back 9 then you were wrong. I suppose it depends if you were keeping up with the group in front of you or not but anything over 4 hours when you're not waiting is flat our slow. I play on the weekend mornings around 7 and usually were the first group out, sometimes the 2nd or 3rd but the people in front are usually long gone by the time we tee off. My 4some plays under 3 hours every single time.

There is never, never any reason to hit into someone on purpose. I play fast and am often behind slower players, sometimes glacially slow. Still, I'd never dream of endangering someone over a game.

[mjonzy20]

We (a 3some) were in the middle of a backup with sometimes 2 groups ahead of us on the tee we were going to and one group behind us since the 6th hole. We were on a par 4 280 yd hole and I was setting up to putt and one of the guys behind us hits his drive and it bounces and rolls up and hits my foot. Now, I've greened this hole in 1 before, but I ALWAYS wait until the group in front of me is off the green, just in case I do it again. What bothered me the most, was no one yelled FORE and they didn't even apologize. When they drove their cart up, we were walking off and I just said "Thanks, that hit my foot, too bad too, you would have been a few feet from the cup" and he replied "Well, get you f'n a off the green" to which I said "No need to apologize, it's a hell of a shot" and we drove off. We all birdied the hole, so I don't see how we took so long. I've been in the situation before where the rest of my group hits and then is rushing me to hit saying that I can't hit the green or I can't hit them or hit that far....but I ALWAYS wait and that just makes it much more of a challenge and a greater sense of accomplishment when I prove them wrong.