Project X flexes - please help!!

[BigGar34]

Hi,

New member here. Have just bought a new set of AP2's with Project X 5.5 shafts. Got fitted for them but am convinced that the shafts are just too soft for me.

 

Am 6ft 5 tall and play off 4. Driver SS is around 110mph and i hit my six iron around 175.

 

The new irons are stunning. Due to the fit the irons are 1.5" longer and 3 deg upright. Expected this because of my height but due to the sheer length am convinced that the shafts have been softened dramatically. To hit these straight at the mo I have to play a 3/4 type nudge shot. Whenever I give it close to 100% I get a massive high draw. Would the 6.0 or even 6.5 project x suit me much better? How much difference does the extra length make to the shaft? The shaft feels like a regular to me!!

 

Sorry for all the questions! Regards!

[mbbrewer]

Hi,

New member here. Have just bought a new set of AP2's with Project X 5.5 shafts. Got fitted for them but am convinced that the shafts are just too soft for me.

 

Am 6ft 5 tall and play off 4. Driver SS is around 110mph and i hit my six iron around 175.

 

The new irons are stunning. Due to the fit the irons are 1.5" longer and 3 deg upright. Expected this because of my height but due to the sheer length am convinced that the shafts have been softened dramatically. To hit these straight at the mo I have to play a 3/4 type nudge shot. Whenever I give it close to 100% I get a massive high draw. Would the 6.0 or even 6.5 project x suit me much better? How much difference does the extra length make to the shaft? The shaft feels like a regular to me!!

 

Sorry for all the questions! Regards!

 

What shaft did you play prior to the PX? The 5.5 plays close to the DGS300.

[Yuck]

I play the project X 6.0's and my 7 iron carry is 172-175 and the shaft is fine. It would seem with your distance, 5.5's would be fine, but if you can demo some 6.0's you will get a feel. I think you would know in two or 3 swings if they are for you. I did try some 6.5's and they clearly were not for me. 6.0's will feel far closer to X100's then the S400's you have hit in the past, But the feel of DG vs PX are very different even at comparable flexes. The extra length coupled with the likely higher swing weight could make them feel softer. The old firm pings, with a very light swing weight could play quite stiff.

[jaskanski]

The PX fitting chart puts you right between 5.5 (170 yards) and 6.0 (180 yards).

If you are struggling to control the flight with the 5.5's, I suggest you try the 6.0. The over length may make a tad difference, but not really in the AP's because they are not tip trimmed.

If you really want a flatter flight, I would err against th PX IMO. I always struggled with a high flight with them. The good news is that Dynamic Gold make the SL shaft which is specifically for overlength dudes like you. If you were fit by Titleist, I'd be suprised if they didn't suggest it.

[cb_golfer]

I tend to hit high fades when using shafts that are not stiff enough. Perhaps, another fitting from a different facility may help since the + 1.5", 3° is approaching T-Rex specs

[slicktry]

I too agree that PX 5.5 is probably not a good fit for you. In order to get the ball flight down, they probably recommended the 5.5's. PX will launch higher overall. Now, if you got the PX flighted, that would be a different story altogether. Also, if you have a SS of 110, and are 6'5", I would tend to reckon that the 5.5's are actually playing close to 5.0's. 6.5's would definitley fit the bill, imo. See if you can get them swapped, it is worth a try.

 

God Bless

Jer

[mac94]

Unless you have an ultrasmooth temp, the 5.5s are probably too soft even at standard length for your SS. Make them 1.5" overlength and I could say with a high level of certainty they are definitely too soft.

[rybo]

Unless you have an ultrasmooth temp, the 5.5s are probably too soft even at standard length for your SS. Make them 1.5" overlength and I could say with a high level of certainty they are definitely too soft.

 

 

Hopefully you did not bet the farm on that!

 

From Royal Precisions website:

 

Q7: What happens to a shaft when I make a golf club longer?

A7: Two things happen when a golf club is lengthened: (1) The shaft becomes stiffer as a result of more butt end being left of the shaft. The butt is the stiffest part of the shaft because it has the largest diameter. (2) The shaft becomes weaker as a result of the swingweight increasing. When a golf club is lengthened the head is now further away from the grip end (butt) of the shaft. This increases swingweight (changes the balance point), which makes the shaft weaker. These two occurrences tend to cancel each other out resulting in little, if any change in shaft flex (coefficient). The club may feel different when it is lengthened or shortened, but in most cases flex does not change.

 

 

And here is the link:

 

http://www.royalprecision.com/precision_faq_clubmaker.html

[Asleep]

...The good news is that Dynamic Gold make the SL shaft which is specifically for overlength dudes like you. If you were fit by Titleist, I'd be suprised if they didn't suggest it.

Hi. I wasn't fit at a Titleist centre but was fit at a local golf club using their machine. Perhaps the Dynamic Gold's are worth a shot!!

If you try the Dynamic Gold SL shafts I'd suggest the X100s and be sure order Sensicore or put Sensicore inserts in. I'm told all SLs on the pro tours are Sensicore. Certainly improves feel.

 

I'd do a dynamic lie fitting, too, just to be sure.

[mac94]

Hopefully you did not bet the farm on that!

 

From Royal Precisions website:

 

Q7: What happens to a shaft when I make a golf club longer?

A7: Two things happen when a golf club is lengthened: (1) The shaft becomes stiffer as a result of more butt end being left of the shaft. The butt is the stiffest part of the shaft because it has the largest diameter. (2) The shaft becomes weaker as a result of the swingweight increasing. When a golf club is lengthened the head is now further away from the grip end (butt) of the shaft. This increases swingweight (changes the balance point), which makes the shaft weaker. These two occurrences tend to cancel each other out resulting in little, if any change in shaft flex (coefficient). The club may feel different when it is lengthened or shortened, but in most cases flex does not change

.

 

Hmm, I play my irons +1" and they are ALWAYS softened by adding the length. But what do I know? :)

[Swoosh-Thud]

Hello,

Thanks for the quick response. I had Zing 2's with firm Ping shafts that were 0.5 longer than standard. Prior to that (about 10 years ago) I had S400 in Ram Tour grind blades. Have always hit irons high (probably due to my height) and would love to hit a slightly flatter ball.

 

My practice clubs are Ram Tour Grinds (with a buttload of lead to get em to D4) with Rifle 6.5s. The other PXs and Rifles I have are all 6.0. My SS is 100 mph all my driver shafts are now Xs. 5.5s are prolly a bit soft for you.

[rybo]

Hopefully you did not bet the farm on that!

 

From Royal Precisions website:

 

Q7: What happens to a shaft when I make a golf club longer?

A7: Two things happen when a golf club is lengthened: (1) The shaft becomes stiffer as a result of more butt end being left of the shaft. The butt is the stiffest part of the shaft because it has the largest diameter. (2) The shaft becomes weaker as a result of the swingweight increasing. When a golf club is lengthened the head is now further away from the grip end (butt) of the shaft. This increases swingweight (changes the balance point), which makes the shaft weaker. These two occurrences tend to cancel each other out resulting in little, if any change in shaft flex (coefficient). The club may feel different when it is lengthened or shortened, but in most cases flex does not change

.

 

Hmm, I play my irons +1" and they are ALWAYS softened by adding the length. But what do I know? :)

 

First I'm not sure how to take your closing comment. Seems a bit cocky on the surface. But for now I will look past that since I'm not sure what you think you know or who you are.

 

Adding length does not make a shaft softer. It will FEEL totally different and perform slightly different but it is not softer. The longer shaft naturally creates a larger arc which in itself will give the perception of being more flexible when it's really not. Most people will hit the ball higher due to the slightly flatter swing plane required of the longer shaft with a touch more spin.

 

Try this take a standard length iron and frequency it. Add a 1" extension and frequency it. They will be exactly the same or at most 1-2 cpms off in either direction (softer or stiffer). And please use the frequency slope.

[mac94]

First I'm not sure how to take your closing comment. Seems a bit cocky on the surface. But for now I will look past that since I'm not sure what you think you know or who you are.

 

No arrogance intended. That's why the smiley was included.

 

Every clubmaker I have ever spoken with or read has stated lengthening a shaft weakens it. Every one. The RP text you pasted was the first I have ever read that has been different. Not only that, but my personal experience seems to confirm my initial position. Every shaft I have ever lengthened got weaker as a result.

 

Not looking to pick a fight. Just stating my opinion.

[Asleep]

I have been told that lengthening a Project X iron adds stiffness because you are adding to the stiffest part of the shaft ( butt stiff, tip soft. )

 

And that lengthening a Dynamic Gold iron adds softness because you are adding to the softest part of the shaft ( butt soft, tip stiff. )

 

This by a PCS clubmaker. He was doing a mini demonstration using the PCS Equalizer. It was years ago and I don't remember the cpm numbers, but I think the difference was practically (functionally) negligible.

[mac94]

A more upright swing generally produces fades, not draws.

 

You could always take them to a clubmaker, get them cpmed, then let us know the results!

[Asleep]

...As the clubs are more upright than I'm used to perhaps my "normal" swing is producing the big, high draws as a result of the lie change.

Lie is a good thing to check for that miss.

 

If your irons weren't so long, I'd suggest PX 6.5s. But +1.5" with that heavier shaft is going to create a swingweight problem, I think.

[mac94]

They do not remove the shaft. It's more accurate to do it without the grip, but it can be done even with the grip on.

[lbhitter]

BigGar34

Asleep's postings are right on point. Since all Rifle shafts are BUTT STIFF, they will get stiffer as you lengthen them. They should actually get ~4.3 cpms stiffer per 1/2" you lengthen them. You can visit the Royal Precision web page and read for yourself in the FAQ section www.royalprecision.com.

 

To add to the confusion for some of you, all Rifle specs are based on a 43" driver and a 37.5" 5 iron at D3 with a 52g grip. Any deviation from this standard will impact flex. The Rifle formula also uses hosel depth and hosel length to calculate changes in flex.

 

So if you purchase a Titleist AP2 5i with PX 5.5, keep in mind the club is 38" in length and D2 swingweight. Right off the shelf these probably flex out at a Rifle 6.0 equivalent based on the +1/2" in length.

 

Best bet is to get fix by a professional clubmaker that is a Certified Rifle Center. They have training to match the appropriate Rifle flex to your capabilities, and build to spec.

 

LB

[lbhitter]

Found the link to RP and now I'll redo the calcs!!

 

Not sure if I've interpreted the link correctly as it states that there is a DECREASE of 4.3 CPM per 1/2 inch as you get longer.

 

The example it shows is a 43" club at 265 CPM. It states that at 44" the CPM then becomes 256.4 (265-8.6). That means the shaft then becomes the equivalent of a PX 5.64. My 5 iron calcs would therefore be:

 

5" iron standard length, 5.5 shaft (37.5") = 255CPM

My 5 iron @ 39.5" = 255 - 17.2 (4.3 x 4) = 237.8. That means the flex is now 3.78!! That can't be right! Am thinking that RP have got the calcs the wrong way round!!!

 

I realise I must my driving people mad here but am I barking up the wromg tree here??!! Feel like I'm tying myself in knots!!

 

Straight from the web page:

 

Q7: What happens to a shaft when I make a golf club longer?

A7: Two things happen when a golf club is lengthened: (1) The shaft becomes stiffer as a result of more butt end being left of the shaft. The butt is the stiffest part of the shaft because it has the largest diameter. (2) The shaft becomes weaker as a result of the swingweight increasing. When a golf club is lengthened the head is now further away from the grip end (butt) of the shaft. This increases swingweight (changes the balance point), which makes the shaft weaker. These two occurrences tend to cancel each other out resulting in little, if any change in shaft flex (coefficient). The club may feel different when it is lengthened or shortened, but in most cases flex does not change.

 

Q12: What do numbers like "5.5" and "6.5" mean?

A12: A golf club at 43" would oscillate in a frequency analyzer at 255 CPM to be a 5.5 flex designation. A 43" club oscillating 265 CPM would be a 6.5 flex designation. If you drop the "2" in "255" and "265", the relationship becomes apparent. These numbers of 5.5 and 6.5, etc. are all based on a club at 43" and every shorter club of the same flex designation will have a CPM increase of 4.3 CPM per 1/2". Every longer club will have a decrease of 4.3 CPM per 1/2". For example, if a club at 43" were 265 CPM, a club of the same flex designation at 42-1/2" would be 269.3 CPM (265 + 4.3). A club at 44" of the same flex would be 256.4 CPM (265 - 8.6). All three clubs are 6.5

[rybo]

here's a link to RP's old frequency calculator:

 

http://www.royalprecision.com/precision_tr...ent_member.html

 

It's the link listed as freqcalc.jar it's a simple java program that you download

 

pay particular attention to the increase in length and swingweight relationship. If you increase the length and not the swingweight the calculator will tell you, you'll need a softer flexing shaft. Then as you add back the swingweight it will state that the shaft flex comes back into line where you started.

 

 

It's very much the opposite the way most people think about shafts

[jaskanski]

BigGar - Avoid all possible confusion. Dump the Project X shaft. Get Dynamic Gold S300. Problem sorted.

[GetinDAhole26]

I agree with ^^ but I would rather see you have dg x100 sensicores than s300

[Asleep]

Sounds like you're in good hands. Let us know how it works out.