If you could change one rule in golf....

[kenoli22]

The argument that you should not have it there...ie out of bounds v/s stroke and distance...is not at all vaild.

 

Why should out of bounds yield a more sever penalty than hitting into a hazrd...it should not.

There is no valid reason why out of bounds should not be treated in the same way as a lateral hazard.

 

The siging the scorecard thing...that should not change...as a player you SHOULD be resonsible for that..goodness me responsiblilty for that is minor...how hard can that be?

really..

this coming from somebody who was dq'd in the sate am after 3 rounds, one back of the lead, for failing to check my card.

 

Out of bounds should be more of a penalty because it is not part of the hole. Hazards are placed there to make the game more of a challenge- risk vs. reward, etc. Out of bounds is just that, out of bounds. It is not part of the playing surface. So you should be penalized more for hitting a ball outside of the valid playing surface.

 

As far as the scorecard thing, I guess we should now start asking bowlers to sign their scorecard, baseball teams to validate their score at the end of the game, maybe football teams too? This is the only sport that does this to professionals.

 

When it comes to the score, ALL that matters is what actually happened- the actual score. Reality is king here. It does not matter that the player signed the card- 4 strokes on 18 is still 4 strokes on 18- regardless of whether he put a 5 on the card or signed it. It makes no sense. We know he really shot a 4 and the only purpose to the rule in this case is to make sure the player is honest or not mistake prone. Is the 4 somehow in question? No! It will still be reported as a 4!

 

The only reason those rules exist is because when there are no officials on the course, no one to keep score for the players, all you have left is some guys word that he really shot what his scorecard says he shot. He's been out on the course for 5 hours with no supervision other than his opponent. In a professional tournament, covered on TV and the Internet, that makes no sense- it is not needed.

 

As I said, for amateur and mini-tour tournaments where you don't have all the video, computers, Shot Link, and hundreds of volunteers, absolutely- the scorecard rules should apply.

 

Best defense of the OB rule yet. I still hate it, but I agree with this reasoning on why it should be more of a penalty. However, it makes me hate on course OB even more. I don't think there is any grounds for making another fairway OB for one hole, but in for another.

[jmiller2]

i think you should get a free drop, for having your ball in a divot in the freeway i hate that rule...

 

Wouldn't a divot in the freeway be called a pothole?

 

yes it would that was a mistake thanks for pointing it out... lol i always like the smart a** comment nicely said... ps it's been edited...

[MAK2525]

Best defense of the OB rule yet. I still hate it, but I agree with this reasoning on why it should be more of a penalty. However, it makes me hate on course OB even more. I don't think there is any grounds for making another fairway OB for one hole, but in for another.

 

Generally speaking, you will find the holes that mark an opposing fairway OB is due to it falling into one of these categories:

 

1. The parallel fairway can be used as a "shortcut". An example would be a bypass to a dogleg giving you a much easier / shorter approach.

 

2. It consistently puts golfers in the line of fire from opposing tee shots, thus slowing play as the group on the tee have to wait for the player to enter their fairway and play the shot.

 

3. Hole would be too easy if not for the penalty of stroke & distance. Example: short Par 4 that is "driveable" for a long hitter, but has a very narrow fairway. This forces them to either hit an iron / hybrid tee shot or gamble with risk / reward.

[SadTrombone]

Minitour...

That is not true...my argument is that you can hit a ball twenty yards offline into the middle of a lake abd get a drop, whilst you could be two inches"off the course" as you put it and have a sterner penalty...that is my argument.

 

You think that is right?

Yeah. You didn't miss the fairway by 2" and end up OB. If you missed by 20 yards into a lake, you get a drop. If you miss by ANOTHER 20 yards and go OB, you re-tee it.

 

-mini

[Bobcat 2]

The argument that you should not have it there...ie out of bounds v/s stroke and distance...is not at all vaild.

 

Why should out of bounds yield a more sever penalty than hitting into a hazrd...it should not.

There is no valid reason why out of bounds should not be treated in the same way as a lateral hazard.

 

The rationale is more practical than anything else - to discourage play at or near that point. Many OB areas border homes, roads, and parking lots - areas that are often not on the property of the club and that contain things that cost a lot of money to repair when a ball goes through or into one ( i actually knew a guy who hooked an iron into a house through the dining room window and destroyed their china set). The clubs all have insurance to protect against this, and increasing the penalty theoretically should deter people from playing near there and decreasing the potential for a bad situation. Most hazards are internal and within the confines of the golf course and property of the club.

 

I wonder how many people are "discouraged" from hitting OB due to the penalty incurred, as if we could control such things.

[SadTrombone]

Best defense of the OB rule yet. I still hate it, but I agree with this reasoning on why it should be more of a penalty. However, it makes me hate on course OB even more. I don't think there is any grounds for making another fairway OB for one hole, but in for another.

I agree 100%. We've got one at a local course where left of the 12th fairway (on #13) is OB for 12. It shortens the hole by some 80 yards. If I play up the fairway it's 2 iron 5 iron. Definitely still not a tough hole, but going the other way it's driver L wedge. Once the trees grow in between the fairways it will be a moot point, but until then, I say blast away!

 

Another one I don't like is making all ditches on the course "drainage ditches" and free drops. That's BS if you ask me.

 

-mini

[D'KRUSHER]

Divots in the fairway - hummm, I think that all the competitors, over 4 rounds, this kinda equals out - the good and the bad luck. Q: On the PGA - does the ground crew after everyday fill/fix the bad divots ?

 

==

I think mine is the obnoxious TV HD Replay- which depending on the angle- can lie.

And the Smart Home Viewer Syndrome. Stop the Call Ins or the outsider having a say.

Let the competitiors hash out whats just happened- and if they need help let them ask for it.

 

All Tour players should know 90% of the rules... and they dont need to be babysit as much as they are now.

This would speed up play !

[Adk Jake]

Because when you hit it OB, it's off the course. It's gone. When you hit it in a hazard, you're still on the course...go ahead and climb in and hit it out if you don't want to drop. Stroke and distance is perfect for OB. Don't hit it there. That's a very valid argument. You just don't like it.

 

Yeah, that's they way it should be, but in the example I cited at my home course, you are not off the course property. Driving range right, still part of the golf course property, driveway and 1st hole on the blue nine to the left, course property.

 

I seem to recall reading a ways back in one of the golf publications, that the spirit of the OB rule and the USGA recommendation is to that Out of Bounds should be exactly that, off the course property. And that only in rare situations should areas within the course property be marked OB.

 

To the poster who reasoned they don't mark the range as a hazard so players won't venture in there to hit their next shot, well they go in there any way. They are either not sure the ball is OB and need to determine that, or to find their valuable Pro V1. Plus you have the casual round guys and the guys who don't know or care about the rules and play from there anyway.

 

Hey, what can be more hazardous than playing your shot from inside the range with all them stripped balls raining down on you :russian_roulette: Makes for some interesting moments between the range users and those who venture in there.

 

Hey, we accpet it, doesn't mean we have to like it or it's the correct way to mark the course. Many is the time that if I'm not driving it well, I've taken a 5wood or hyrbrid off the tee. Or worse, "your hitting three or five"

[Leeds1888]

i'd change the penalty for holing a putt with the flag in. i play as a single a lot, and i can't tend my own flag.

 

This is one rule I wouldn't worry about breaking if you are playing as a single. What harm are you doing? So long as you aren't doing it during tournaments, which you wouldn't need to because you would be playing with someone else, I don't see the big deal. No rule should be changed because of an inconvienience to singles.

[longballjs]

I wonder how many people are "discouraged" from hitting OB due to the penalty incurred, as if we could control such things.

 

Well most people I know who play a hole that has ob close to the fairway, tend to aim away and shape towards it, aim at it and shape away, and very few just aim down the middle - though it would probably yield the best result :)

 

Best defense of the OB rule yet. I still hate it, but I agree with this reasoning on why it should be more of a penalty. However, it makes me hate on course OB even more. I don't think there is any grounds for making another fairway OB for one hole, but in for another.

Yeah, that's they way it should be, but in the example I cited at my home course, you are not off the course property. Driving range right, still part of the golf course property, driveway and 1st hole on the blue nine to the left, course property.

 

I seem to recall reading a ways back in one of the golf publications, that the spirit of the OB rule and the USGA recommendation is to that Out of Bounds should be exactly that, off the course property. And that only in rare situations should areas within the course property be marked OB.

 

 

I seem to recall this as well - we had OB for about 115 yards between 2 holes. When the USGA came through our course, I seem to remember being told that internal out of bounds is contrary to the rules of golf and may only be enacted by a local rule out of necessity, but not for usga play - that said, just looking through the rules of golf, there is no mention of internal out of bounds. Maybe there is something in the decisions on the rules

[avrag]

The last thread with this title is only a few months old, but I am glad to have the opportunity to post this again:

 

"The rule I would change is the one, that allows a provisional ball only if the ball might be lost outside a water hazard. On the courses I play most of the time, there are lots of water hazards with all sorts of plants (bushes, small trees, reed grass) growing on the boundaries of the hazard. If a ball heads that way, you can never be sure, if it is lost inside the hazard or if you can find it just short of the hazard, or if it made it over to other side safely. Now, as it clearly was heading for the water hazard and then disappeared from sight, you are not allowed to play a provisional, because the only way the ball can be lost is inside the hazard. But nobody can tell, whether it actually went over all the trouble and landed safely, or was just a little bit too short. In this case, all you can do is walk up to the place the ball might have landed, look for the ball, and if you cannot find it, it is obviously in the hazard, and you must walk back.

In addition, 98% of people who play golf, don't even know the rule. It happens all the time in our monthly medals. Somebody going for the green on 18, which is usually a shot of about 170yds, 140 of which are over a water hazard, surrounded by trees and thick bushes (which are all within the boundaries of the hazard).

If nobody hears the distinctive "thuck" sound of the ball hitting the green, but a sound of rattled twigs and leaves instead, the player will surely say: "I'll hit a provisional", which leads to endless discussions and explanations, why he can't. Added: the only place, where he could legally drop, will usually be the place from which he played his original shot.

And I do not see any rational reason for that rule."

 

And regarding the most heated discussion:

 

Stroke AND Distance is a double penalty. I don't think there is another rule that I am aware of that penalizes a player twice for an errant shot other than that one. So, in answering the OP's question, that is the one rule I would change (regardless of circumstance - OB, lost ball, etc).

 

You are supposed to play golf ON the golf course. If you hit your ball out, it is only natural that you should have to start over again. AND be penalized a stroke, because you should be more careful. If people take a stroll on the golf course and are hit by a ball, it's their own fault, but nobody should be hit by balls when walking outside of a golf course. And if you had ever been to an old Scottish municipal course, which is basically the town's "common green", you would know exactly what I am talking about and why the rule is like it is. With today's home or resort projects right next to the courses, the rule still has its merits.

[jjj912]

Stroke and distance for OB! You can hit it 300 yards, 1" OB and you're penalized more so than if you whiff! Seems a little ridiculous if you ask me.

 

It's not as ridiculous as you might think. Let's look at some other sports. For example, American football. Suppose a quarterback makes a 60 yard pass to a receiver who makes a fabulous catch, except that he is one step out of bounds. What happens? The team loses a down and has to try again from the previous spot. Sounds an awful lot like by stroke and distance to me.

 

In baseball, if you hit a foul ball you take a strike and have to stay put. Any baserunners that would have otherwise stolen a base, has to come back to the original base. This isn't quite as analagous, but the idea is the same: you take penalty (strike) and try again from the same spot.

 

I inclined the leave the out of bounds rule as it is.

 

I'm also inclined to continue to DQ players who sign in incorrect scorecard. Keeping score is a basic principle in sports. If you turn in a lower score, you are cheating in a big way and should be punished appropriately. If there were referees who job it was to keep score, then I would be inclined to agree that the rule should be changed.

 

As an aside, the golf rule-making bodies seem to take pride in having the same set of rules for professionals and amateurs. While that does have a certain appeal to it, I don't know how necessary it is. I don't know of any other sports (bowling?) that have the same rules for amateurs and professionals. I read once that the reason was that if you had two sets of rules, how could a tournament have both professional and amateur play together? Well, Major League Baseball has two sets of rules for its leagues; and leagues play against each other! Having two sets of rules might make sense for golf - one set for professional tournaments and one set for non-professional tournaments.

[brad_polish_golfer]

i think the divot one should stay, you would got more lazy people not putting divots back in,

[jjj912]

The last thread with this title is only a few months old, but I am glad to have the opportunity to post this again:

 

"The rule I would change is the one, that allows a provisional ball only if the ball might be lost outside a water hazard.

....

And I do not see any rational reason for that rule."

...

 

The rationale is that the player has the option to play stroke and distance or drop next to the hazard. If you were able to play a provisional ball, you could then opt to drop next to the hazard if your provisional shot was not a good one (e.g. it went OB).

 

For example, supposing for minute that the rule was changed so that you can hit a provisional ball even if the original ball may be in the water, let's say you hit a ball that may or may not be in the water. You top your provisional ball and it goes all of five yards. You walk up to the water and verify that your original ball is in the water. Under the water hazard rule you can play stroke and distance or near the water. Since your provisional ball went all of five yards, it if clearly advantageous to drop next to the water and try again. For the price of one stroke, you got two chances to clear the water (provisional, and drop near the water). The way the rule is currently written the one stroke penalty only gives you one chance.

 

You can play a provisional ball when the ball may be lost outside of a water hazard or when it may be out of bounds because the only relief option is stroke and distance.

[D'KRUSHER]

The last thread with this title is only a few months old, but I am glad to have the opportunity to post this again:

 

"The rule I would change is the one, that allows a provisional ball only if the ball might be lost outside a water hazard.

....

And I do not see any rational reason for that rule."

...

 

The rationale is that the player has the option to play stroke and distance or drop next to the hazard. If you were able to play a provisional ball, you could then opt to drop next to the hazard if your provisional shot was not a good one (e.g. it went OB).

 

For example, supposing for minute that the rule was changed so that you can hit a provisional ball even if the original ball may be in the water, let's say you hit a ball that may or may not be in the water. You top your provisional ball and it goes all of five yards. You walk up to the water and verify that your original ball is in the water. Under the water hazard rule you can play stroke and distance or near the water. Since your provisional ball went all of five yards, it if clearly advantageous to drop next to the water and try again. For the price of one stroke, you got two chances to clear the water (provisional, and drop near the water). The way the rule is currently written the one stroke penalty only gives you one chance.

 

You can play a provisional ball when the ball may be lost outside of a water hazard or when it may be out of bounds because the only relief option is stroke and distance.

===============

This is giving me a headache.....

Just kidding- I'll learn all the rules eventually.

[avrag]

The last thread with this title is only a few months old, but I am glad to have the opportunity to post this again:

 

"The rule I would change is the one, that allows a provisional ball only if the ball might be lost outside a water hazard.

....

And I do not see any rational reason for that rule."

...

 

The rationale is that the player has the option to play stroke and distance or drop next to the hazard. If you were able to play a provisional ball, you could then opt to drop next to the hazard if your provisional shot was not a good one (e.g. it went OB).

 

For example, supposing for minute that the rule was changed so that you can hit a provisional ball even if the original ball may be in the water, let's say you hit a ball that may or may not be in the water. You top your provisional ball and it goes all of five yards. You walk up to the water and verify that your original ball is in the water. Under the water hazard rule you can play stroke and distance or near the water. Since your provisional ball went all of five yards, it if clearly advantageous to drop next to the water and try again. For the price of one stroke, you got two chances to clear the water (provisional, and drop near the water). The way the rule is currently written the one stroke penalty only gives you one chance.

 

You can play a provisional ball when the ball may be lost outside of a water hazard or when it may be out of bounds because the only relief option is stroke and distance.

 

I believe I'll have to think that through once or twice, but I think you're right. It wouldn't be good to have those options. But, given that, I would not want to change a rule, but to add a rule:

It is mandatory that golf clubs put up a sign on every hole with a water hazard on days of club competitions. The sign should say (in 3 ft high letters):

"There is no such thing as a provisional ball when your ball might be lost in a water hazard!"

I am just so tired of those discussions.

[Tighthead]

Rule 13 provides that the ball must be played as it lies, except as otherwise provided

in the Rules. How would one incorporate divots into the rules for relief? GUR seems like a stretch.

 

The unnattended flagstick rule is a good one as it would speed up play with little impact on the game.

 

As for repairing spike marks, that would give another tool to the time wasters.

[scotto69]

The spike mark change possibly would be dangerous with some of the perfectionists running around...the course I used to work at had 6 hour rounds when japanese tourists came because they had to mark and plum bob every 3 footer, etc... 8 hr rounds start happening with people grooming their line, and this game is going to die. Plus, its a time honored tradition to bang away at the green when you dog a putt, blaming it on a spike mark. You can't take away ALL the excuses for missing, it might kill people's confidence lol.

 

Am I wrong in thinking even Jack Nicklaus thinks the divot rule should be changed?

 

A lot of divots don't require too much adjustment, but some of my steep swings create holes that even Tiger is dead screwed trying to get out of. 2" deep crater, baby. Good luck hitting it solid out of that one champ.

 

What is the big advantage of moving the ball a few feet into the same conditions?

[rankoutsider]

The big advantage is that if pros could roll their ball in the fairway they could make even better contact with it.

[Tighthead]

The big advantage is that if pros could roll their ball in the fairway they could make even better contact with it.

 

Everyone would. Part of the challenge of golf is determining what you can do with a given lie. Start rolling the ball, and then you can dodge sidehill, downhill, etc. It would change the nature of the game dramatically.

 

When did perfection become a reasonable expectation? Part of the charm of golf is dealing with adversity, and not whining about bad breaks.

[Dizz]

Has anyone else seen courses with "In course OB"...that is one of the dumbest rules all time. I played in a tournament with a dog leg left par 5 and they made anything left of the tree line OB because they didnt want anyone cutting the corner. I think you should be able to tap down spike marks but everything else I think is fine.

[tjewell1994]

1. free drop from a divot (WHY ISN'T IT GROUND UNDER REPAIR, THE BEAT UP GROUND IS BEING REPAIRED!!!!!!)

2. free drop from rocks

3. fix imperfections on the green

4. have an official scorekeeper and not be able to DQ for scorecard error

5. free drop from mud that isn't considered casual water

6. free drop from cow patches of grass in fairways

[longballjs]

I'll tell ya...I'm glad we have no say in the amending of the rules of golf. It's a tough game with tough choices. Im glad you have to play from divots, not only because of the "play it as it lies...rub of the green" notions, but also because landing in a divot tests the mental faculties of the strongest minds. I have played people who had me 2 down, land in a divot, have a small fit and not proceed to make a par for 3-4 holes. Now I'm not going to lie and say that its never affected me, but ive learned to deal with it. Asses the situation and deal with it. ok, you are in a divot, the shot has gotten tougher - can you try and hit a delofted iron up towards the green - can you make sure that worst case you advance it and keep it in the fairway - if you are lucky enough to be on a par 5 hitting your second shot - can you get this to wedge range so that you can make birdie the hard way? Golf is not always about the best talent or best luck, but is often who has the toughest mind, a very important part of Tiger's success (he just happens to also have the best talent and luck as well)

[D'KRUSHER]

I'll tell ya...I'm glad we have no say in the amending of the rules of golf. It's a tough game with tough choices. Im glad you have to play from divots, not only because of the "play it as it lies...rub of the green" notions, but also because landing in a divot tests the mental faculties of the strongest minds. I have played people who had me 2 down, land in a divot, have a small fit and not proceed to make a par for 3-4 holes. Now I'm not going to lie and say that its never affected me, but ive learned to deal with it. Asses the situation and deal with it. ok, you are in a divot, the shot has gotten tougher - can you try and hit a delofted iron up towards the green - can you make sure that worst case you advance it and keep it in the fairway - if you are lucky enough to be on a par 5 hitting your second shot - can you get this to wedge range so that you can make birdie the hard way? Golf is not always about the best talent or best luck, but is often who has the toughest mind, a very important part of Tiger's success (he just happens to also have the best talent and luck as well)

==

Ditto, well said.

The spike marks on the back Nine on Sunday, really play on the Pro's Mind too. Mental toughness- the Hawk, Tiger, being able to overcome and endure.. is apart of competitive golf.

====

Now I'll change tack.....

 

I've been thinkin about fast greens on the Tour. Is it me, or are they getting faster ? Are the Superintendants in a competition to get'em as fast as possible ? They tech-double-cut, and re cut & roll, etc.

The green are so fast it's like they're bikini waxed, ( where have I heard this before?) . Do we need greens that won't hold in higher winds- balls move-penalties. The greens are shaved so short, they turn brown and semi- die ( see Transitions last weekend). The greens that when you're well above the Pin- no way to stop the ball from rolling off the green ( Augusta, 13th hole at times this happens -per Tiger).

 

I dont know the stimp meter readings, but I'll guess Augusta is around 12 to 13 Stimp. Why do we want to even come close to an un playable situation ? for multiple reasons, toning green speed down a notch would make a lot of sense. Fast Greens on Sunday = 5.5 hour rounds, too.

[MAK2525]

D'Krusher:

 

For the record, the greens at Innisbrook were not brown due to the grass length, but a combination of serious drought conditions in the Bay area, and a hot-cold-hot weather streak leading up to the tournament. It killed off the winter overseeding earlier than usual.

[ArnieTX]

10 club only rule. No more 14 clubs in the bag.

[longballjs]

10 club only rule. No more 14 clubs in the bag.

 

 

Hmmmmmmm, very interesting - I had to think for a minute about what I would do - I suppose Driver, 16* hybrid, 2, 4, 6, 8, PW, SW, LW, Putter

[barrs]

I'd make putts count half a stroke.

 

No, I'm not a crappy putter but i find it to be imbalanced.

Also, as far as pros go, I'd like to see bunkers being actually hazards for them and not a great up and down opportunity.

[Status]

I'd make putts count half a stroke.

 

May as well just make the cup bigger.

[SadTrombone]

I'd make putts count half a stroke.

 

May as well just make the cup bigger.

That still only benefits good putters.

 

-mini