Rules Question...Why relief???

[golfjunkie]

This is probably a dumb question, but I am watching Tiger get relief from a power box on 9 and was wondering....why do these guys get so many breaks/relief? They are pros and should play the ball where it lies. It shouldnt matter if its a grandstand, porta-potty, or whatever. They cant dig up trees so they should be responsible for where the ball lands.

 

IBTW, I think these rules should apply to all golfers, just wondering about pro play and this is NOT a Tiger slam. I just saw it and made me think.

[lilhellmaker17]

Artificial obstruction. If man made or not natural you get relief. The porta pottys are only there for the tournament, if they werent there they would play it as it lie.

[Smokey1226]

Rules are Rules, what makes you special to have more rules than someone that is pro? I dont get that arguement at all?

[golfjunkie]

I guess i still dont agree. We/they know the things are there and if not, so what, its a bad shot. i guess I just see a rule that should say play it where it lies, always. If you hit it there then so be it.

[golfjunkie]

Rules are Rules, what makes you special to have more rules than someone that is pro? I dont get that arguement at all?

 

God there is always someone who has to get attitude. I'm just asking why do we/they have so much relief? We/they/all golfers should just play it where it lies. it would be much easier.

[MAK2525]

I guess i still dont agree. We/they know the things are there and if not, so what, its a bad shot. i guess I just see a rule that should say play it where it lies, always. If you hit it there then so be it.

 

Let's see, they put up a row of Porta Potties right by the cart path. You push your drive to the area that would be standard rough when you or I play the course. Why should they be penalized for a temporary obstruction that was put in place for the comfort of the spectators? I don't see where they are being given any kind of advantage, whereas they would be unfairly penalized if forced to take a penalty drop from an area that is not a hazard or OB. How is this any different than ground under repair, which allows you to move a ball that comes to rest in such a designated area?

[sk373]

I'm just asking why do we/they have so much relief? We/they/all golfers should just play it where it lies. it would be much easier.

 

the rules allowed Tiger to get relief from that spot, and he knew it. if you knew the rules of golf like Tiger, you wouldn't have created this thread. i keep a copy of the rules of golf in my bag. maybe you should too.

[Kregan]

Can someone explain the ruling?

 

I saw the phone box and the tree but couldn't he have hit back into the fairway in another direction like back toward the tee box? Like punch out just 20 yards or so?

 

Does the rule state you have to be able to advance the ball forward?

[bradbuff]

Tiger was totally obstructed by the tree, so he had no shot to the green. His intention was to punch the ball back to the fairway, but the electrical box blocked his backswing. He was entitled to a one club length relief. After he dropped, he had a clearer shot towards the green.

 

The rules can be your friend, or they can be your nemisis.

[blinden]

I had this same thing happen in a causal round with a buddy of mine. We agreed that is was an artificial obstruction and I took relief. Why wouldn't you do the same?

 

 

 

Brian

[longballjs]

Rule 24-2. Immovable Obstruction

Interference

Interference by an immovable obstruction occurs when a ball lies

in or on the obstruction, or when the obstruction interferes with

the player’s stance or the area of his intended swing.

 

Exception: A player may not take relief under this Rule if

(a) it is clearly unreasonable for him to make a stroke because

of interference by anything other than an immovable obstruc-

tion or (b) interference by an immovable obstruction would

occur only through use of an unnecessarily abnormal stance,

swing or direction of play.

 

 

So you get relief, but you cannot say I want to hit the ball backwards 175 yards and this will not allow me to. But you can say I want to try and hit this up by the green, punch out sideways, and even go backwards in the right situation, just has to be a reasonable play. If relief affords you a better shot, then you have used the rules to your advantage

[DavePelz4]

Maybe a different approach will help here.

 

The design of the golf course didn't include hazards such as porta potties, score boards, electrical boxes, etc. Those interfere with the architects intention of the course and weren't part of the plan.

 

The additions to the course alter the lines of play so relief is granted to keep the intention of the course "as" natural as possible.

[cnelson]

Rule 24-2. Immovable Obstruction

Interference

Interference by an immovable obstruction occurs when a ball lies

in or on the obstruction, or when the obstruction interferes with

the player’s stance or the area of his intended swing.

 

Exception: A player may not take relief under this Rule if

(a) it is clearly unreasonable for him to make a stroke because

of interference by anything other than an immovable obstruc-

tion or (b) interference by an immovable obstruction would

occur only through use of an unnecessarily abnormal stance,

swing or direction of play.

 

 

So you get relief, but you cannot say I want to hit the ball backwards 175 yards and this will not allow me to. But you can say I want to try and hit this up by the green, punch out sideways, and even go backwards in the right situation, just has to be a reasonable play. If relief affords you a better shot, then you have used the rules to your advantage

 

Longballs said it great.

 

 

If your going to comment on the rules, make sure you know them. There is nothing in the rule book for an artificial obstruction.

 

 

And as for DavePelz4 comment;

 

Those are all considered TIO's. Temporary Immovable Obstructions. It is the sole discretion of the rules committee as to what fits the definition of a TIO.

 

TIO's allow relief for line of SIGHT. not line of play. In other words, if you are behind a scoreboard and can't see the flag, you get relief, as much as possible to see the flag. However if you can see the flag but can't hit the high draw you want to because the scoreboard is there, no relief.

[muzz]

If this guy Tiger you speak of was any good, he would have banked it off the Water Closet and onto the green....

 

I don't get all this Mamby Pamby stuff!!! :lol: :stinker:

[jjj912]

...

 

Does the rule state you have to be able to advance the ball forward?

 

No.

[jjj912]

...

 

And as for DavePelz4 comment;

 

Those are all considered TIO's. Temporary Immovable Obstructions. It is the sole discretion of the rules committee as to what fits the definition of a TIO.

 

TIO's allow relief for line of SIGHT. not line of play. In other words, if you are behind a scoreboard and can't see the flag, you get relief, as much as possible to see the flag. However if you can see the flag but can't hit the high draw you want to because the scoreboard is there, no relief.

 

I think you have it backwards. Interference from a TIO includes a player's line of play.

 

II. Interference

Interference by a TIO occurs when (a) the ball lies in front

of and so close to the TIO that the TIO interferes with the

player’s stance or the area of his intended swing, or (b) the

ball lies in, on, under or behind the TIO so that any part of

the TIO intervenes directly between the player’s ball and

the hole and is on his line of play; interference also exists if

the ball lies within one club-length of a spot equidistant

from the hole where such intervention would exist.

 

Note: A ball is under a TIO when it is below the outermost

edges of the TIO, even if these edges do not extend downwards

to the ground.

[CHRIS509]

I don't think the OP is trying to start a fight!

 

As an example; a player carves his tee shot, has no real "safe" shot to the green, so hits 2nd into a stand knowing he will get relief, drop zone.

Rules are rules and some would say this is a smart move and keeps the big numbers of the card. But what the OP is trying to get at is why should this be allowed, why should any player be allow to pick his ball up anywhere other than out of the hole?

 

Before the pro's/anyone tee's up they know porta loo's, grand stands, and other man made items etc are on the course and if your that far of line "should" you get help/relief to get back on line?

 

You put it there, you play it! Lets face it there are no porta loo's in the middle of the fairway.

 

As an after thought, would this speed up play (No rulings) would it make us hit staighter instead of longer?

Just some thoughts, it might be quiet refreashing.

 

Not Tiger bashing, but a few years back on the 18th of some touney (major, can't remember), didn't he put it in the car park or on the roof of the club house and a chef found it! It was not call OB (WHY!) and he got relief from the club house and made an up & down. Think about it, is that REALLY fair???

[jjj912]

Hitting into the grandstands in anticipation of getting a free drop has it's own risks. Remember Jean van de Velde? His second shot hit the grandstand, but instead of coming to rest next to the stands, the ball rebounded into the deep rough in front the Barry Burn.

 

Regarding the Tiger story, I don't know why the clubhouse wasn't out of bounds. I guess no one ever expected a ball to be hit over there. In my experience, most golf courses have very little out of bounds because there is usually no advantage to being in an area that could be considered OB. You asked if it was fair that Tiger got a free drop. I think that is the wrong question. The question to ask is should that area have been out of bounds? I think the Tiger situation indicates that yes, the clubhouse and parking lot should have been marked OB. I've read that Tiger was surprised to learn that the ball was not out of bounds.