Hogans left hand, strong, weak, or neutral ?

[JOEGOLFWRX]

was his left hand strong, weak or neutral and how does one define these terms anyway ?

 

the Vs pointing anywhere is a poor definition in my opinion. high hands, angle of shaft lean at address, ball position, and open face at address will all effect the position of the V's.

[Serenity05]

Id say it was more neutral/two knuckles. I saw tigers today (on tv) and they looked similar. JMO

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I have a few questions about the right hand...

 

It looks like Hogans right hand got progressively weaker as years went by. Is this true?

 

How important is the weak right hand grip? Whats are its benefits?

 

How far is too far for a weak a right hand?

[Dariusz J.]

was his left hand strong, weak or neutral and how does one define these terms anyway ?

 

the Vs pointing anywhere is a poor definition in my opinion. high hands, angle of shaft lean at address, ball position, and open face at address will all effect the position of the V's.

 

Hogan's left hand was not weak, otherwise he could not have recommended his famous check point for a lead hand grip (pad + index finger).

 

 

It looks like Hogans right hand got progressively weaker as years went by. Is this true?

 

How important is the weak right hand grip? Whats are its benefits?

 

How far is too far for a weak a right hand?

 

Yes, it is true. It went a lot weaker and there are quite a few important reasons why. The weak RH helps in creating lag, gives better impact alignments, influences a natural on plane takeaway, etc.

Read the subforum here about the Bio-K grip for details:

http://www.biokineticgolfswing.forom.pl/viewforum.php?f=5

 

Cheers

[downtoscratch]

Hogan said.......... "Take every natural instinct and"............. I love a paradox and Hogan was chock full of them

both in word and deed. When does a weak right hand grip become the strongest grip in golf? When it's coupled

with the other paradoxical elements of Hogan's setup alignments. DTS

[JJH]

Yes, it is true. It went a lot weaker and there are quite a few important reasons why. The weak RH helps in creating lag, gives better impact alignments, influences a natural on plane takeaway, etc.

Read the subforum here about the Bio-K grip for details:

http://www.biokineticgolfswing.forom.pl/viewforum.php?f=5

 

Cheers

 

Which professionals presently use this grip? I've not noticed the left strong and right weak before? Thanks!

[Dariusz J.]

Which professionals presently use this grip? I've not noticed the left strong and right weak before? Thanks!

 

Neither me. I guess today's golf instruction (including top level) blindly believes in the parallel V's theory that contradicts common sense when talking about a proper wrists action in the swing motion (the lead one deviates while the rear one flexes). Also, people were told that post-secret Hogan used a weak grip (!) which would say that his both hands were in a weak position, which is not true. This is one of the valid reasons why noone today is capable to produce such a shaft angle as older Mr.Hogan did.

 

Cheers

[birly-shirly]

the right hand does definitely look weaker in the later pictures, but so too does the left hand, I think.

 

the weakness of the right hand is more obvious, because you can see more of it, but his left hand grip could easily show only one knuckle. plus, he wrote that his left thumb ran right down the top of the grip, which is weak for most people. plenty of advice is that a fundamental of the grip is to have the left thumb supporting the grip from right of centre at address.

 

as the OP said, the position of the hands and club at address make reading the Vs, or counting knuckles, potentially misleading. at the end of the day, the grip is a means to an end. if you can't square the clubface, your grip is probably too weak, and vice versa. snead apparently always claimed that he was aimed straight at his target, even though his feet appeared closed. in the same way, david duval and corey pavin might argue that their grips are neutral. I think hank haney defines the weakness or strength of a grip by reference to the position of the clubface at the top of the swing and whether it's parallel to the left arm.

 

the issue of one hand being weak and the other strong is an interesting one. personally, I've always thought that a strong right hand grip, relative to the left hand, tends to put the left wrist in an arched or closed position at the top. by the same logic, if hogan had an especially weak right hand grip, it would have helped him achieve his "secret" cupping of the left wrist.

[JOEGOLFWRX]

............ I love a paradox and Hogan was chock full of them

DTS

+1

the man was also an optical illusion, he often appears to be making polar opposite movements with a particular part of his body depending on what angle the footage is taken from.

[martinez]

Id say it was more neutral/two knuckles. I saw tigers today (on tv) and they looked similar. JMO

 

 

 

 

 

I have a few questions about the right hand...

 

It looks like Hogans right hand got progressively weaker as years went by. Is this true?

 

How important is the weak right hand grip? Whats are its benefits?

 

How far is too far for a weak a right hand?

 

I would say in these two pics Mr. Hogan had weaker left hand fingers than is obvious at first glance. The thumb and index finger look very neutral...but they are not in line with the top three fingers imo.

[dream_stryker]

Quick question about the Hogan recommended left hand grip... What is the purpose of the left hand butt pad pressure point? I've noticed when pitching and on short wedge shots that when I monitor this presure point and maintain it...its usually a good shot or liveable miss. I'd like to understand why. Cheers!

[atlanta golfer]

In Hogan's classic book "5 Lessons" in the section on grip, he specifically talks about how later in his career, he shifted the position of his left hand to be weaker, to combat his ocassional tendency to hook. He describes the change as moving the left hand a good 1/2 inch left. I suspect he then just moved the right a corresponding amount, to keep the right upper palm securely on top of the left thumb. Hogan also talks a lot in the book about the right hand pressure points - where to be firm and where not to be, to allow control but not inhibit the swing.

[yoonie]

Yes, it is true. It went a lot weaker and there are quite a few important reasons why. The weak RH helps in creating lag, gives better impact alignments, influences a natural on plane takeaway, etc.

Read the subforum here about the Bio-K grip for details:

http://www.biokineticgolfswing.forom.pl/viewforum.php?f=5

 

Cheers

 

 

Which professionals presently use this grip? I've not noticed the left strong and right weak before? Thanks!

 

A lot of golfers will use a relatively weak left compared to right hand grip. David Duval comes to mind, and i think sean o'hare slightly. I find that the weak right hand actually helps my hands fit better together and allows me to release more freely with my right hand without worryign about hooking.

[Ridgecrest18]

Which professionals presently use this grip? I've not noticed the left strong and right weak before? Thanks!

 

A lot of golfers will use a relatively weak left compared to right hand grip. David Duval comes to mind, and i think sean o'hare slightly. I find that the weak right hand actually helps my hands fit better together and allows me to release more freely with my right hand without worryign about hooking.

 

I think you've got your lefts and rights mixed up............. Duval, along with several other tour players, have strong left-hand grips that they mitigate, like Hogan, by having a markedly weaker right-hand placement. This grip is very effective way of taking the left side of the course out of play, IMO.

[yoonie]

Which professionals presently use this grip? I've not noticed the left strong and right weak before? Thanks!

 

A lot of golfers will use a relatively weak left compared to right hand grip. David Duval comes to mind, and i think sean o'hare slightly. I find that the weak right hand actually helps my hands fit better together and allows me to release more freely with my right hand without worryign about hooking.

 

I think you've got your lefts and rights mixed up............. Duval, along with several other tour players, have strong left-hand grips that they mitigate, like Hogan, by having a markedly weaker right-hand placement. This grip is very effective way of taking the left side of the course out of play, IMO.

 

Wow yeah, I completely meant their right hands. I don't know how I wrote that hwole thing backwards =)

[dream_stryker]

Quick question about the Hogan recommended left hand grip... What is the purpose of the left hand butt pad pressure point? I've noticed when pitching and on short wedge shots that when I monitor this presure point and maintain it...its usually a good shot or liveable miss. I'd like to understand why. Cheers!

 

 

Whoops! I meant left hand HEEL pad pad pressure against the butt of the club. Sorry for the typo. Any ideas DJ?

[Dariusz J.]

Quick question about the Hogan recommended left hand grip... What is the purpose of the left hand butt pad pressure point? I've noticed when pitching and on short wedge shots that when I monitor this presure point and maintain it...its usually a good shot or liveable miss. I'd like to understand why. Cheers!

 

 

Whoops! I meant left hand HEEL pad pad pressure against the butt of the club. Sorry for the typo. Any ideas DJ?

 

Well, this is a support pressure point assisting the last two/three fingers of the LH. Without it first, the grip would be too loose, second there will be excessive ulnar deviation of the lead wrist during the release phase.

Quoting Mr.Hogan, keeping pressure on the shaft with the palm pad does three things: it strengthens the lead arm, prevents from a slippage and acts as reinforcement at impact.

 

Cheers

[Magic]

In the home video at the Colman Estate where Mr. Hogan was hitting balls into the ocean, near the end he demo's and gives a great explanation of the famous Hogan grip. Really good and cleared up a couple of things for me.

Sorry I don't have a link to that video, but I'm sure that a search on the web will give a hit to where it may be found. Barring that maybe someone here can provide said link to the video.

 

Slicefixer, in the Encyclopedia Texarkana, stated that he believed that Mr. Hogan went from a strong left hand grip earlier in his career to a more neutral one toward the later years.

 

Regards,

Magic

[JOEGOLFWRX]

Id say it was more neutral/two knuckles. I saw tigers today (on tv) and they looked similar. JMO

 

 

 

 

 

I have a few questions about the right hand...

 

It looks like Hogans right hand got progressively weaker as years went by. Is this true?

 

How important is the weak right hand grip? Whats are its benefits?

 

How far is too far for a weak a right hand?

 

I would say in these two pics Mr. Hogan had weaker left hand fingers than is obvious at first glance. The thumb and index finger look very neutral...but they are not in line with the top three fingers imo.

 

yep, that is what i was getting at in my first post, by saying ignore the v's. are you gripping the left like this since you started your bow/crossbow.

[martinez]

Id say it was more neutral/two knuckles. I saw tigers today (on tv) and they looked similar. JMO

 

 

 

 

 

I have a few questions about the right hand...

 

It looks like Hogans right hand got progressively weaker as years went by. Is this true?

 

How important is the weak right hand grip? Whats are its benefits?

 

How far is too far for a weak a right hand?

 

I would say in these two pics Mr. Hogan had weaker left hand fingers than is obvious at first glance. The thumb and index finger look very neutral...but they are not in line with the top three fingers imo.

 

yep, that is what i was getting at in my first post, by saying ignore the v's. are you gripping the left like this since you started your bow/crossbow.

When I first changed my swing to Bow/Crossbow I was looking at Tiger. Then I had a look at Moe....currently looking at Hogan and yes I have weakened my left hand fingers and my right hand. I have been experimenting with feeling like the right palm is feeling like its almost on top of the shaft. Makes it hard to maintain the right side flying wedge.....so the experimentation is to keep that wedge intact with the weakest right hand I can.

[Dariusz J.]

In the home video at the Colman Estate where Mr. Hogan was hitting balls into the ocean, near the end he demo's and gives a great explanation of the famous Hogan grip. Really good and cleared up a couple of things for me.

Sorry I don't have a link to that video, but I'm sure that a search on the web will give a hit to where it may be found. Barring that maybe someone here can provide said link to the video.

 

Slicefixer, in the Encyclopedia Texarkana, stated that he believed that Mr. Hogan went from a strong left hand grip earlier in his career to a more neutral one toward the later years.

 

Regards,

Magic

 

 

Magic,

 

There are the links you have mentioned about:

 

 

Cheers

[Milo]

Love that LIFE image of Hogan. Latent power perfectly poised.

[jaguar52]

The pictures in this article 1st one from his Power Golf book and the second is later and definitely shows his hands in a weaker grip in the second picture. Hogan's grip and swing have been criticized by modern teachers for being too weak for golfers who slice the ball. I found that if you follow all the Five Elements in his book then his grip and swing produce a fade. And I was one of the slicers, not a weak fade, a real banana ball. He also described his left hand grip as a palm grip and his right hand as a finger grip. His left hand grip is more a hybrid between a palm and finger grip. His left hand is in the lower half of the palm, with his palm wrapped over his fingers. The right hand is a finger grip. These two components gave him a more interlocked solid grip on the club.

[hoganfan924]

His grip strength varied quite a bit over time.

 

Pre - 1946 - very strong

 

1946-1949 - More neutral

 

Post 1950 - weak - predominant shot was a fade

 

Later in life (1970's) - back to neutral - predominant shot was a draw

 

However, his LH grip strength always appeared weaker than what it actually was due to his "high hands" position at address. Experiment with this in front of a mirror and you'll understand.

 

I really like the "strong left, weak right" combination. The weak right hand allows the clubface to open more in the backswing and for the club to get more laid off, which is good for someone like me who has an across the line tendency.

[Serenity05]

Heres my Biok grip experiment. I have a pretty "weak" right hand. Do you guys think thats too much?

 

 

 

[Dariusz J.]

Serenity, the grip you showed on the pics is a textbook Bio-K grip. If you keep using it and your pivot is sound - many great things are to be expected, mate. Mr.Hogan knew it very well, I am more than sure.

Pay attention to what is the most secure and convenient way your RH pinky hooks over the mid joint of the LH index finger. Look at this section in my forum for references:

 

http://www.biokineticgolfswing.forom.pl/viewforum.php?f=5

 

Cheers

[Serenity05]

Thanks Dariusz!

 

I believe I am hooking the right pinky together correctly, but thatnks for the heads up.

 

Today I played nine holes and the ball stiking was pretty good. 5 of 6 Fairways and 6 of 9 greens in reg :)

[birly-shirly]

If you are striking it good, then that is really all that matters. 6 GiR a side makes for good golf at nearly any level, so if you can keep that up you should think very carefully before making any changes.

 

That said, to me your right hand grip looks weaker than hogan's, and any other professional that I've seen, and weaker than I've ever seen recommended.

 

If you find that you are consistently struggling with losing shots to the right - I'd consider strengthening that right hand.

[Serenity05]

I just tried this grip for nine holes as a experiment. I didnt miss left thats for sure. This however is not my normal grip. Slice is the model that I try to follow. I'll post some pics later.

 

 

[Fore18]

Left hand is strong in Hogans swing and you can see it in the photos above. Look at where the bone at the bottom of the left thumb is, it points at his right foot. The crazy part about that is his right hand is extrem on top weak to help keep his right elbow from staying to close.

[Dariusz J.]

I just tried this grip for nine holes as a experiment. I didnt miss left thats for sure. This however is not my normal grip. Slice is the model that I try to follow. I'll post some pics later.

 

 

Don't give up, mate. Golf world is perfored by instruction that is not biokinetically valid. This is for sure. If someone tells you that the grip should be formed with parallel V's bullxxxx or that the strong grip is good - do not listen to this crap, no matter if its TGM or OP or another theory.

Merge a strong LH with a weak RH and you're close to the perfect golf grip for many reasons. I have brought a lot of arguments to support the Bio-K grip - I received NO VALID ARGUMENTS against.

Mr. Hogan suspected the same - hence his post-accident grip.

 

Good grip + good pivot = accurate golf. Period.

 

Cheers