PineMeadow or other Clone clubs?

[eagvent]

Good combo of value and quality?

I'm fairly new to the game and want to spend less than $500 to upgrade from a Wilson boxed set. Does anyone have any history with PineMeadow or any other clone makers that I might want to check out? Thanks much.

[Jacoby]

I've ordered from Pinemeadow myself (they are based right here in Oregon). I would not call them 'clone' clubs, rather off brand or non-name brand clubs. I completely understand about not wanting to spend a lot. I've only played with their wedges, and they have worked out just fine, jmo.

 

You can get name brand shafts and grips (True Temper, Lambkin) if you want (upcharge) and they even take custom requests too. I had my wedge done with 2 degree upright lie angle.

[bshad72]

I'm sure I have company in saying this, but I think you'd be much better off buying a used set from a major OEM in lieu of new clone/off brand clubs. If you buy irons and woods that are 4+ yrs old you can save a bunch of money and probably have better quality and technology at a comparable price. Just my .02, but I'd bet a lot that OEM clubs would be a notch above off brand ones. Good luck.

[JeffreySpicoli]

As already pointed out, you can pick up very good used sets from the major OEMs in your price range. So money shouldn't keep you away from the major OEMs.

 

As far as quality differences between major OEMs and off-brand/clones/whatever, it's arguable that there's a vast quality difference.

 

If you're really focused on the money aspect, stick with the OEMs if only because you'll have some resale value. (The off-brand/clones/whatevers have very little to no resale value.)

[tairese]

While brands like Gigagolf/Pinemeadow have pretty much no resale value, I've played in them and found them to be pretty good clubs. That being said, if you're new to the game, you may benefit from an older set if you know you'll upgrade later.

[jrsharp21]

You could put together a decent OEM bag for under $500. Check out rockbottomgolf.com, gppgolf.com, and golfetail.com.

 

Also, if you are not afraid of the component company route, check out www.hirekogolf.com.

 

If you don't mind used, www.3balls.com has great deals.

[lambertslunatic]

Sasquatch Sumo 10.5* $65

R7 Steel 5 wood 18* $70

Hibore hybrid #3 21* $55

Big Bertha 2004 4-GW $250

Cleveland Classic (2009) #1 putter $50

 

You could put together this bag (or one of similar quality) on Globalgolf.com this morning for $490.00 shipped. All in "very good" condition. Then you'd have a quality bag with some measure of resale value. Just something to consider.

[Optimus-Par]

i am surprised that there were replies that have heard of the company or..gasp...used those clubs before. i thought that on this site, words like "clone" and "knock-off" are taboo!!!

 

i agree with going with major OEM stuff. you can always find good used or even last years model new at great prices.

[generalbolg]

check out callawaygolfpreowned.com youll be able to find a set of high quality clubs at very reasonable prices. plus they come with a one year warranty and youll be able to make some cash off them when youre ready to upgrade again. they grossly underestimate the quality of their clubs. apparently they are supposed to be used, but a lot of times you can hardly tell. you can get a set of used x-18's for 350, x460 driver for 75, and an x tour wedge for 55.

[flyfishin4trout]

A great starter set could be ping i3os. Great irons and you can get them for cheap on ebay and such.

[oregongolfguy]

Maybe i just look at things differently but here are my thoughts.....

 

If you fit standard length/lie golf clubs well then ebay and online stores like rockbottomgolf are the way to go for good clubs for a good price.

However....You really should be fitted to clubs. You will hit a club that fits you much better then the best club that doesn't fit you. And if you don't want to spend the money on OEM clubs new from a store fitted to you then to me the obvious answer is to order clubs to your specs from gigagolf,pinemeadow,golfsmith....whichever reputable place you want to. I will pretty much guarentee that you will play better with a $400 set custom fitted to your specs rather then any OEM clubs that do not fit you.

 

Personally i have always been a doubter of such things. However, i have started to take golf lessons, the first thing he did was fit me, then we got started, i was amazed at how much better i could strike the ball when i had a club in my had that was the correct length,lie and flex.

He personally uses a Henry Griffitts fitting system. I told him there was no way that i could afford to have custom clubs built through them. He said that was fine, he didn't really care what brand of club i have, just that i ordered them to the right specs. His son, who is my age and happened to be visiting plays pinemeadows clubs(+3handicap) and highly recommended clubs from there,gigagolf or golfsmith.

[sion126]

Actually, I find these comments about buying 3 to 4 year old "proper" brand golf clubs rather funny and ill advised. Speaking from experience as a player who took up the game in 2005 and who currently owns several thousand dollars worth of golf clubs ($8K) including sets from Mizuno, Ping, Ben Hogan, Adams, Nickent and Pinemeadow. I have to tell you that the golf clubs made by Pinemeadow are all rather surprisingly well made.

So what if the resale value is zero? for the price who cares!! I have all of their Synchron II fairway woods and all of their Excel Hybrids. I have had very good results with them as well.

I also have several of their drivers that I use on the practice range as I find the Bloc a good trainer for my Nickent 4DX Tour driver. I alternate between a Nickent and a Ping G5 driver though. So for drivers I will give you that one.

My Mizuno MX200 irons are currently being replaced by Pinemeadow and Nickent Hybrids. I find that for me at least, Hybrids work quite well for my game, though I use my Mizuno Irons for 90% of my range practices.

With the experience of paying big bucks and with what I have in my bag now, I contend that I would have had a more effective game using just Pinemeadow series clubs for a fraction of the price. Lets face it, when you are new - playing with many different rigs leads you to where your game is the most effective. Pinemeadow offers a lower cost way of doing it than that big expensive gear that you may not find so satisfying with results that you will find a hard time balancing cost and results with.

For me it's not that I cannot afford any golf club I want, I just find that for the money I personally got a better deal and recognition of what works and what does not with what Pinemeadow have to offer. The only bad set of golf clubs I ever bought was my first. A low cost endeavor from Overstock.com for $350 clams for an awful set of AMF golf clubs that almost had me quitting the game. Now, if I had been aware of Pinemeadow at the Outset I think my game would have been better a lot quicker for a lot less. There is no doubt what they make works and it works well.

Oh I also have a set of Hybrids from Thomas that work real well. Very well in fact.

In my bag now I have:

Black Magic 60 degree hybrid wedge (brilliant club this thing) - Backup Mizuno 60 Degree R tour Wedge - choice between two made on game day if it's wet I select the Mizuno.

Black Magic Sand Wedge - Has no equal and I have four other backups (Mizuno R, Ping G5 and Titleist 56 degree tour)

PW - Pinemeadow Excel with graphite stiff Pinemeadow shaft (Well tuned for this club) - Backup Mizuno MX200 PW

9 iron - Mizuno MX200

8 iron - Mizuno MX200

7 iron - Mizuno MX200

6 iron - Pinemeadow Excel Hybrid - if it's wet MX200 6 Iron backup

5 Iron - MX200 (Will be replaced by Nickent 5DX Hybrid)

7W - Pinemeadow Synchron II with aldila NX75 stiff graphite shaft

4 Iron - Nickent 4DX Hybrid - regular flex graphite shaft

3 Iron - Nickent 4 DX Hybrid - regular flex graphite shaft

2 Iron - Hogan Hybrid - steel shaft (Stiff)

1 Iron - Cleveland Hybrid - stiff steel shaft (outdrives all of my drivers - not consistent)

Driver - Nickent 4DX Tour - regular flex shaft 10.5 degree - Backup/alternate ping G5 12.5 DEGREE OFFSET with UST Pro force V shaft.

Putter - Rife Dana special edition - Backup Odyssey white hot tour putter (2008)

I tried for a long time to break 100 with Ping/Mizuno irons, now that I am hitting these various hybrids my usual game has come down from a 92-97 to a 79-85 scoring range.

The most noticeable effect is the Nickent 3 and 4 woods. These clubs rescue my a** so often I just do not know where I would be without them. the Pinemeadow Hybrid Excel PW and my Black Magic wedges also pull my a** out of the fire on many occasions.

I hit my Mizuno 4 iron pretty good but not as consistently as the Hybrid, so it stays hanging on my backup wall for contemplation.

The Ben Hogan 2 Iron Hybrid and the Cleveland 1 iron Hybrid will all be replaced by Nickent 5DX Hybrids, but next on the hit list for my irons is the 8 and 7 which I will replace with Pinemeadow Excel Hybrids. I may replace the 1 and 2 Hybrids with Adams Golf A7 or Excel Hybrids from Pinemeadow.

May replace the 1 Wood with a 3 Wood Syncron II from Pinemeadow. I have the 3 Plus which was a mistake, but man it goes far when I strike it right.

I hit the 9W Synchron II fairway wood pretty darn well, so I may sacrifice the 1 W for this club or a 64 degree Wedge. I have real issues from 85 yards in, but have concluded I need various swings with my wedges to remedy. I have lots of options here in any event. My short game is pretty good with these hybrids. The only irons I really like to hit are my 9 Iron and 60 degree Mizuno R tour wedge. The problem here is with the sand - its useless in wet sand.

I also have ALL of the Pinemeadow Syncron II fairway woods with the exception of the normal 3W. I love the 9/11/15 Woods in particular and play them if the course is a Links. These work real well on flat courses where accuracy is required with energy release in the ball on landing. I find Hybrids tend to stop dead on landing. Good on uphill targets but not so good on a flat links.

Now I also have several Taylormade R series fairway woods that I paid a fortune for. I have to say they are crap overall statistically speaking. But I have hit the odd awesome shot with the R540 3 Wood, but from a statistical POV its not ever going in the bag. That is a recipe for a 105 score.

The only club in the AMF set from Overstock that is awesome is the 7 wood with a UST Pro V2 shaft on it. All the other AMF clubs are shite. I still have every golf club I ever played with. I never sell them or throw them away. On occasion I take a set to the range to see how well I hit them. I may have the AMF irons melted down, as they are so bad it would be a crime against humanity to sell them to some sucker.

My conclusion after all of my purchases is that I would have been better playing with Nickent and Pinemeadow gear from the outset. However, for me the journey has no price.... I am happy where I am and the journey I have taken and will continue to take.

My next journey will be finding a better driver setup and seeking out what Taylormade have to offer. I already have travelled with Cleveland and Adams on this one and will likely end up with Ping or a Nickent Driver again. Maybe the Mizuno MX700 which I hit well at the Mizuno place in San Diego on occasion.

Pimemeadow have nothing to offer me here. A sad fact of life. I have tried all of their offerings here. No different to what Adams or Cleveland make though.

The Nickent driver is very versatile. It is the only driver I have found that can be hit like an Iron and squeezed - as well as perform the normal driver swing. In fact I can smack down on the ball like I use a 9 Iron with a ball in the rough with explosive results from a distance and accuracy point of view. However - my instructor hates it and says it looks Neanderthal when I do it.........I am leaning to using this squeeze stroke as its gets me 270 yards vs 255 for the normal swing. However that swing is a bad habit for the other clubs......that is a fact.

Anyway.... the net net here is go out and experiment. For $500 you can buy a lot of very good Pinemeadow clubs of various types and learn a ton about your game while you are at it at a very reasonable cost to boot. Now there's a win win situation for you.

I went with more expensive Aldila shafts on most of my Fairway woods and have recently learnt that the tuned Pinemeadow shafts made for the club are the better way to go. They feel so darn good when you hit them - light and effortless..... the way it should be.

In golf, in my experience, you almost certainly do not get what you pay for all the time. It depends on a lot of factors. As to those suggesting you buy old gear from reputable manufacturers I would say you cannot be serious!! I will Guarantee you that any set of clubs from Pinemeadow will seriously outperform any of the old legacy sets mentioned by others in the various post responses, and by a wide margin to boot. Now in my opinion, buying old legacy clubs instead IS seriously bad advice. Hitting old Callaway Irons for example (X16/21) etc is a serious waste of time and money. Hitting ping S2/G2 Irons is an exercise to enhance futility itself. I would not wish that on my worst enemy.

You guys would be shocked at how good golf gear from Pinemeadow and Thomas golf is. Of all of the clubs I have from the two of them I have only one bad club - the Syncron II 3 Wood plus. And that is probably because I do not have the skill to hit the thing yet. All of their Irons are as good as anything Ping/Callaway/Cleveland or Mizuno make in the cavity back class of Iron and their Hybrids are just awesome.

For Muscleback type clubs I would agree. Mizuno MP67 irons for example, for me have no equal except maybe for the Nickent offering, Pinemeadow and Thomas have little to offer the pro golfer in that class. But they do not cater to that class of golfer. They cater to people new to golf who want to experiment to find a set of clubs that works well for their game at a reasonable cost and that deliver dollops of fun while they are at it. There's a lot of us out there on that quest.

Think about it......I do not regret buying any club from either manufacturer. Try it for yourself sometime even .........you will have your eyes opened a tad. I know, I did.

Of all the things I regret the most in my golf adventure, spending over $5000 on Ping and Mizuno Irons has to list high compared to the results I got from Nickent and Pinemeadow gear. Not that I do not regret acquiring them, I only regret the price I paid compared to the results I got.

And I know people at Nickent, so the cost of acquisition there is 1/3 of what most will pay.

[masterli]

[quote name='oregongolfguy' post='1818987' date='Jul 14 2009, 05:44 PM']Maybe i just look at things differently but here are my thoughts.....

If you fit standard length/lie golf clubs well then ebay and online stores like rockbottomgolf are the way to go for good clubs for a good price.
However....You really should be fitted to clubs. You will hit a club that fits you much better then the best club that doesn't fit you. And if you don't want to spend the money on OEM clubs new from a store fitted to you then to me the obvious answer is to order clubs to your specs from gigagolf,pinemeadow,golfsmith....whichever reputable place you want to. I will pretty much guarentee that you will play better with a $400 set custom fitted to your specs rather then any OEM clubs that do not fit you.

Personally i have always been a doubter of such things. However, i have started to take golf lessons, the first thing he did was fit me, then we got started, i was amazed at how much better i could strike the ball when i had a club in my had that was the correct length,lie and flex.
He personally uses a Henry Griffitts fitting system. I told him there was no way that i could afford to have custom clubs built through them. He said that was fine, he didn't really care what brand of club i have, just that i ordered them to the right specs. His son, who is my age and happened to be visiting plays pinemeadows clubs(+3handicap) and highly recommended clubs from there,gigagolf or golfsmith.[/quote]

have to completely agree with the fitting. i've purchased my few sets both pinemeadow and gigagolf to get started because of price and custom specs. i wouldn't say that quality of OEM are leaps and bounds above these places. the clubs are perfectly fine. what i would add to the fitting though is while the length and lie might be right for you the shaft might not fit your swing. the biggest thing i learned from getting fit for irons was how different shafts can feel. you really can't figure that out until you try a bunch of shafts. you said you're still fairly new so you might not be able to tell, but a club fitter would be able to know if you need something with a higher flight or maybe lighter, or maybe the opposite of both. while i love my mx200's, i think the biggest reason they out perform my gigagolf set is because the shafts match my swing. they load totally different and i'm making a much more natural swing. the length and lies are the same as my giga set. the clubs you have might even be as good as something from pinemeadow or gigagolf.

if i were you i'd start looking for a putter to fall in love with. those clubs are so personal you'd be lucky to get one in a box set that you really like. hit up a store and try a ton. get it adjusted for your stroke. some retail places will include or give a discount on adjustments if you buy it there. again, they're so personal i don't know how people can buy one w/o trying it first. then i would get an iron fitting and see what shafts and specs work for you. who knows, maybe a real common shaft like DG300 will be perfect for you. it will be an upcharge at pinemeadow or gigagolf or if you go used OEM you'll have a ton of options. if you go used you can have the lengths and lies adjusted to fit you. many people get separate wedges from their iron sets. if you plan on doing that i'd find the perfect wedge before the perfect set of irons. then just continue the process with your woods.

the process has worked for me. i just wish i got fit sooner than i did... while places like gigagolf make fine clubs, i don't think you save as much as you think compared to used OEM especially when you compare similar shafts. again, something like a dg300 is an upcharge at gigagolf while it's a stock shaft in many OEMs. it comes more down to what works for you. you can try a lot of OEMs at stores before you buy. i know giga and pine have good return policies but you'll pay return shipping and might only get credit if you have customizations.

good luck. my two cents...

[JeffreySpicoli]

[quote name='sion126' post='1924004' date='Aug 31 2009, 01:23 AM']Actually, I find these comments about buying 3 to 4 year old "proper" brand golf clubs rather funny and ill advised. Speaking from experience as a player who took up the game in 2005 and who currently owns several thousand dollars worth of golf clubs ($8K) including sets from Mizuno, Ping, Ben Hogan, Adams, Nickent and Pinemeadow. I have to tell you that the golf clubs made by Pinemeadow are all rather surprisingly well made.

<snip>

Of all the things I regret the most in my golf adventure, spending over $5000 on Ping and Mizuno Irons has to list high compared to the results I got from Nickent and Pinemeadow gear. Not that I do not regret acquiring them, I only regret the price I paid compared to the results I got.[/quote]

Not only rambling advice but pretty bad advice, too.

You've misrepresented this thread as posters stating to spend $5,000 dollars on Ping & Mizuno.

So, we'll say it again . . .

You can buy great used or closeout OEM clubs for less than you'll pay for new component clubs.

Example: New Bridgestone J36 iron set is easily available for $299 now.

All you've pointed out is that you parted with your money in ways that no one here has recommended.

[DH48]

I would take a look at the Hireko component products. I have a set of XP 905 irons and frankly they are just about as good as my G10s. The whole set cost me $180. I would highly recomend them.

DH

[bscinstnct]

The clubs are probably fine.

But it is a fantastic time to take advantage of great prices on new/slightly used oem sets.

I suggest that whatever club you buy, you hit it first.

[backspin26]

you can buy a look alike, but you can't buy a play alike!

[mitchleary]

[quote name='sion126' post='1924004' date='Aug 31 2009, 12:23 AM']Speaking from experience as a player who took up the game in 2005 and who currently owns several thousand dollars worth of golf clubs ($8K) including sets from Mizuno, Ping, Ben Hogan, Adams, Nickent and Pinemeadow. I have to tell you that the golf clubs made by Pinemeadow are all rather surprisingly well made.


Of all the things I regret the most in my golf adventure, spending over $5000 on Ping and Mizuno Irons has to list high compared to the results I got from Nickent and Pinemeadow gear. Not that I do not regret acquiring them, I only regret the price I paid compared to the results I got.

And I know people at Nickent, so the cost of acquisition there is 1/3 of what most will pay. [/quote]

Maybe some of that money could have been used for lessons, say $1000, then spent $2000 on a bag that fits your improved swing. Compared to the 8K you spent, that is a siginificant saving.

[Terpman]

In addition to Hireko and Pinemeadow, I recommend you check out Diamond Tour at [url="http://www.diamondtour.com"]www.diamondtour.com[/url]. Both my sons have iron sets from DT and they play fine; in fact, I used my younger son's Snake Bite C6 set, a copy/knockoff of the Cobra S9, for a couple of rounds and they were great--felt and performed every bit as well as the Cobras.

[dabdias]

I have 4 clubs from pinemeadow: 1 wedge, 1 hybrid and 2 putters.

The 2 putters are as good as any putter that I have tried (I have an Odissey #1, a Cleveland classic and TaylorMade turismo). So in this part I would say that you can get some really good deals.

Regarding the wedge and the hybrid, I have a different opinion. These 2 clubs have their stock shaft in regular and in both cases their regular flex is almost as flexible as the shafts in my girlfriend's clubs which are Ladies flex. If you end up buying from pinemeadow have this in consideration as it will affect your game tremendously.

Regarding fitting, I completely agree with the other opinions here, the better the clubs fit you, the better you will play. In this case you have two options, one is going to a golf-shop an try to be fitted for flex and Length-loft-lie for free. The other one is using various online fitting quizes and get an idea of what suites you better (for example pinemeadow's online fitting system is ok but the best one IMO is PING's).

Once you have a better idea of your fitting numbers: ebay!!

[JOSEPHLB]

[quote name='Terpman' post='1924418' date='Aug 31 2009, 11:01 AM']In addition to Hireko and Pinemeadow, I recommend you check out Diamond Tour at [url="http://www.diamondtour.com"]www.diamondtour.com[/url]. Both my sons have iron sets from DT and they play fine; in fact, I used my younger son's Snake Bite C6 set, a copy/knockoff of the Cobra S9, for a couple of rounds and they were great--felt and performed every bit as well as the Cobras.[/quote]


The thing is.. those heads most likely come right out of the same foundry as the real Cobra's..

That is what alot of people fail to realize.. a majority of the clones are coming right out of the same foundries as the OEM's... this runs from the illegal knockoffs.. to the legitimate clones.. to the components.... right out of the same damn foundries as the OEM's.. but the brand whores will come in here and try to convince people otherwise..