Snap Hook?! Just started... Why?

[euge1978]

I don't know what has happen but ever since I got my new irons I can't hit my driver or 3 wood without a 'snap hook'... What is causing this and how do I try to fix it? I would hate to have to tee off with my 4 iron(all irons are straight as an arrow). Before the new irons my drives were straight and would carry 290. Now nothing feels solid...

[MadGolfer76]

For [b][i]me[/i][/b]:

closed club face + forward ball position + in to out swing path = snap hook

Try not doing these things and see how it goes. Lessons are good if you have the time and $$.

[euge1978]

[attachment=443897:flex.jpg] Just played another round today. Snap hooks again ruined my score. I did have someone use my iPhone and take video. From that I noticed a massive forward bend of the club at impact... At least a foot. I am using a ping g10 with a stiff prolaunch red shaft. My swing speed is about 116 average with a driver. Today it felt like it was 120. After googling this, it seems like the shaft may be too flexible. Either that or my release is late, the ball is too far forward, or ..... Any thoughts?
There is a pic attached...

[Tiff Eagle]

Its called Golf. Get use to it these things happen all the time. Go Back to the basics. Check grip, Check line up, you may be taking the club to inside on your back swing and geting stuck on your down swing. Stand taller at set up make shure your shaft is more upright or vertical at set up and take the club back more vertical on your back swing and then swing smooth. Garantee you that will work. for a while any wat till somthing else goes wrong.

[Tiff Eagle]

Dont go buy a new shaft its not the shaft its your swing. I have been threw all that before.

[euge1978]

Hey Tiff... just added a photo. That was what I was talking about.

[Shaftology]

My guess is you were playing shafts in your irons bee fore you got your new ones that were pretty flexible. When you went to the new irons, you have now adapted to the stiffer shafts and are hitting them straight, but your driver and 3 wood shafts are too felxible. We see it all the time when doing fittings. The pic you posted is definite evidence of a shaft that is too flexible for you. The reason you did not do it before your new irons is that you "adapted" your swing to the set you had in play at the time.

[euge1978]

That is kind of what I thought. Now that I have irons that match my swing speed I am swinging the driver faster. I didn't want to put a new shaft in the driver but it looks like I may have to. Any suggestions on a shaft for my swing speed?

[Shaftology]

If you liked the PL Red before (stiff tip, low-mid ball flight), you may want to just look at an X flex in that shaft. If not,and you want a higher or lower ball flight, there are a ton of shaft options. Remember that the butt stiffness (flex) controls squaring the face at impact, i.e. left and right shots. The tip stiffness of the shaft controls launch angle and to a certain extent the spin rate.

[euge1978]

Well... Went to the PGA Store and got another swing analysis. They wound up putting a UST V2 x flex shaft in. My swing speed was hitting 124mph this time around. I guess I will see how this new one works out.

[Tiff Eagle]

Holy crap yes the picture says it all, I was thinking you were a beginer golfer there is know way you can swing a club that fast, but I was wrong. You got some amazing club head speed.

[MadGolfer76]

Holy snap............hook!?

Soft shaft is an understatement, your clubhead speed is awesome. I would be frustrated too. Hope the new shaft helps.

[northgolf]

[quote name='Tiff Eagle' post='1859956' date='Aug 2 2009, 07:25 PM']Holy crap yes the picture says it all, I was thinking you were a beginer golfer there is know way you can swing a club that fast, but I was wrong. You got some amazing club head speed.[/quote]

Digital pictures are often recorded from the CCD from the top down - with a slow digital camera this causes the hands and upper part of the shaft to be recorded before the clubhead and thus you get the image of the clubhead way ahead of the hands. I think you are seeing an artifact due to the camera.

[ChxDigLongBall]

[quote name='northgolf' post='1861078' date='Aug 3 2009, 10:00 AM'][quote name='Tiff Eagle' post='1859956' date='Aug 2 2009, 07:25 PM']Holy crap yes the picture says it all, I was thinking you were a beginer golfer there is know way you can swing a club that fast, but I was wrong. You got some amazing club head speed.[/quote]

Digital pictures are often recorded from the CCD from the top down - with a slow digital camera this causes the hands and upper part of the shaft to be recorded before the clubhead and thus you get the image of the clubhead way ahead of the hands. I think you are seeing an artifact due to the camera.
[/quote]

+1 Get a real camera. I agree that your swing speed definitely warrants using an X (and agree that teh V2x should work awesome) but there is now way that the a stiff shaft would have that much forward flex that early. I might be wrong, but if that is what your shaft truly looks like at impact now then I am surprised you haven't killed yourself while hitting driver yet.

[euge1978]

[quote name='northgolf' post='1861078' date='Aug 3 2009, 10:00 AM'][quote name='Tiff Eagle' post='1859956' date='Aug 2 2009, 07:25 PM']Holy crap yes the picture says it all, I was thinking you were a beginer golfer there is know way you can swing a club that fast, but I was wrong. You got some amazing club head speed.[/quote]

Digital pictures are often recorded from the CCD from the top down - with a slow digital camera this causes the hands and upper part of the shaft to be recorded before the clubhead and thus you get the image of the clubhead way ahead of the hands. I think you are seeing an artifact due to the camera.
[/quote]

Hmm. I don't know anything about the iPhone's Video fps but the picture came from one of the frames. It made the snap hook problem make sense if the club head was getting there much quicker than my hands, closing off the face, etc. I will update you all when the I get the club with the new shaft in it. I will try to video it again and we will see what happens. I am now thinking the iPhone has another good use for golf besides the range finder...

[yoonie]

If it doesn't feel like you're swinging a wet noodle, the club isn't the problem, and if your first thought wasn't "holy s***, where did the clubhead go" as soon as your start your down swing, the club isn't the problem.

Unless you're at the extreme end of poorly fit clubs (like you're using your mom's or something), it would still be playable.

[skizix]

[quote name='euge1978' post='1861439' date='Aug 3 2009, 10:50 AM'][quote name='northgolf' post='1861078' date='Aug 3 2009, 10:00 AM'][quote name='Tiff Eagle' post='1859956' date='Aug 2 2009, 07:25 PM']Holy crap yes the picture says it all, I was thinking you were a beginer golfer there is know way you can swing a club that fast, but I was wrong. You got some amazing club head speed.[/quote]

Digital pictures are often recorded from the CCD from the top down - with a slow digital camera this causes the hands and upper part of the shaft to be recorded before the clubhead and thus you get the image of the clubhead way ahead of the hands. I think you are seeing an artifact due to the camera.
[/quote]

Hmm. I don't know anything about the iPhone's Video fps but the picture came from one of the frames. It made the snap hook problem make sense if the club head was getting there much quicker than my hands, closing off the face, etc. I will update you all when the I get the club with the new shaft in it. I will try to video it again and we will see what happens. I am now thinking the iPhone has another good use for golf besides the range finder...
[/quote]

There is no way your shaft is bending that much at impact. No way -- if it were, it's doubtful you'd even be able to hit the ball. Besides, if you were decellerating that much at impact (and I don't believe you are)...your ball flight would be ALL kinds of screwed up, most likely spraying all over the place. Um, that would also constitute a massive swing flaw, so the noodly shaft would only be one of your problems anyhow.

It's the camera. These type of camera-illusion shots show up on this forum pretty frequently. It's not a fps thing, it's that [i]each frame[/i] is scanned top to bottom, so an object moving at high speed across the frame it's going to get distorted, since it's in a different place when the top is scanned vs. when the bottom is scanned. An easy way to confirm this is to have two people take that same shot, one with your iphone, and one with non-digital, film camera, using high speed film and a fast shutter speed.

You might well need a stiffer shaft, but do not conclude that based on the photo. Seriously, that image definitely misleading.

Seems unlikely that a slightly too-soft shaft would consistently cause a snap hook though (as in: don't be too shocked if an x flex does not cure it -- maybe demo one before spending the dough).

When I snap hook, I look into regaining control over my left wrist.

[euge1978]

[quote name='skizix' post='1861508' date='Aug 3 2009, 01:12 PM'][quote name='euge1978' post='1861439' date='Aug 3 2009, 10:50 AM'][quote name='northgolf' post='1861078' date='Aug 3 2009, 10:00 AM'][quote name='Tiff Eagle' post='1859956' date='Aug 2 2009, 07:25 PM']Holy crap yes the picture says it all, I was thinking you were a beginer golfer there is know way you can swing a club that fast, but I was wrong. You got some amazing club head speed.[/quote]

Digital pictures are often recorded from the CCD from the top down - with a slow digital camera this causes the hands and upper part of the shaft to be recorded before the clubhead and thus you get the image of the clubhead way ahead of the hands. I think you are seeing an artifact due to the camera.
[/quote]

Hmm. I don't know anything about the iPhone's Video fps but the picture came from one of the frames. It made the snap hook problem make sense if the club head was getting there much quicker than my hands, closing off the face, etc. I will update you all when the I get the club with the new shaft in it. I will try to video it again and we will see what happens. I am now thinking the iPhone has another good use for golf besides the range finder...
[/quote]

There is no way your shaft is bending that much at impact. No way -- if it were, it's doubtful you'd even be able to hit the ball. Besides, if you were decellerating that much at impact (and I don't believe you are)...your ball flight would be ALL kinds of screwed up, most likely spraying all over the place. Um, that would also constitute a massive swing flaw, so the noodly shaft would only be one of your problems anyhow.

It's the camera. These type of camera-illusion shots show up on this forum pretty frequently. It's not a fps thing, it's that [i]each frame[/i] is scanned top to bottom, so an object moving at high speed across the frame it's going to get distorted, since it's in a different place when the top is scanned vs. when the bottom is scanned. An easy way to confirm this is to have two people take that same shot, one with your iphone, and one with non-digital, film camera, using high speed film and a fast shutter speed.

You might well need a stiffer shaft, but do not conclude that based on the photo. Seriously, that image definitely misleading.

Seems unlikely that a slightly too-soft shaft would consistently cause a snap hook though (as in: don't be too shocked if an x flex does not cure it -- maybe demo one before spending the dough).

When I snap hook, I look into regaining control over my left wrist.
[/quote]
Well. I had to adjust and rotate the video in iMovie because it was actually taken upside down. If that was the case my upper body should be the artifact?

Anyways, just did a little more research. As a couple of you stated the iPhone is not a good device for this. It has a CMOS sensor which actually has results in 'rolling shutter', not CCD. So it is most likely a significant distortion but no way of telling how much. Leave that for another forum.... Either way... I will get a comparison probably tomorrow when I get the club back tomorrow but it should show that the CMOS camera is useless for looking at shaft bend. I would be interested in seeing if there is a change. I wish I had a film camera to compare as well.

[newkidontheblock]

I had the same problem all season (high school) it could be if you feel like you did hit it solid you could be delofting the club

[scottland]

[size=4][b]Your shaft is not bending nearly that much[/b]!!!!

[size=2]I needed to make that VERY clear. Digital cameras render from the top to bottom, unlike film cameras that capture the image all at once. The iphone camera barely does 30fps. Combine a fast swing speed, with low frames per second, and you get a still image that looks like that. A slow motion 500+fps camera would tell a completely different story. I'll explain

Digital Cameras capture an image one line of pixels at a time. They do this in a top to bottom manner. This is almost never a problem until you start dealing when very fast motion. When the camera is capturing the horizontal line of pixels that contains the image of your hands, you are still quite a ways away from impact. Notice your hand position, you're no where near hitting the ball yet.

As the camera continues to capture the image line by line, the club head is getting closer to the ball. This makes it seem like the shaft is bending, when it fact the shaft is just getting closer to the impact position. By the time the camera captures the lines of pixels down by the ball, your club head is making impact.

Flex your driver shaft VERY HARD in your hands. Notice the shaft bend? That's about the max bend you are going to generate during your swing.


Now as for your snap hook. you're getting too handsy. Snap hook = Severely closed club face at impact.
[/size][/size]

[Jacoby]

Can you post a photo of your grip? From the image at impact, it would appear that your wrists have not rotated so that the back of of your left hand is facing the target at impact. I'm in no way an expert, but one thing that I have noticed in looking at many swing sequences is that most pros have their back of their left hand (for a RH golfer) is facing the target at impact.

[justinp766]

[quote name='MadGolfer76' timestamp='1249015214' post='1854647']
For [b][i]me[/i][/b]:

closed club face + forward ball position + in to out swing path = snap hook

Try not doing these things and see how it goes. Lessons are good if you have the time and $.
[/quote]

This is about as perfect as you could put it.

Same for me too.

[REEVO]

[quote name='euge1978' timestamp='1249173453' post='1858326']
That is kind of what I thought. Now that I have irons that match my swing speed I am swinging the driver faster. I didn't want to put a new shaft in the driver but it looks like I may have to. Any suggestions on a shaft for my swing speed?
[/quote]

That shaft is pretty stiff but looking at the photo it cant take the load so i would go up to X stiff, you need to go and get fitted up and get looked at, you open a can of worms otherwise so just pay the money and get sorted properly, then you know thats its your swing at fault not the clubs.

[scifisicko]

Nothing to do with frame rate and everything to do with shutter speed which you cant set on an iPhone. Turn your iPhone upside down and take another photo and you wont see the forward bend (just a lot of blur). Better still grab a camera with a manual shutter and set it for 1/2000 of a second or faster (will need full sun).

[J.Gorrell]

[quote name='REEVO' timestamp='1304757534' post='3214222']
[quote name='euge1978' timestamp='1249173453' post='1858326']
That is kind of what I thought. Now that I have irons that match my swing speed I am swinging the driver faster. I didn't want to put a new shaft in the driver but it looks like I may have to. Any suggestions on a shaft for my swing speed?
[/quote]

[b]That shaft is pretty stiff but looking at the photo it cant take the load so i would go up to X stiff, you need to go and get fitted up and get looked at[/b], you open a can of worms otherwise so just pay the money and get sorted properly, [b]then you know thats its your swing at fault not the clubs.[/b]
[/quote]


May wanna read the thread. The picture is irrelevant in this case. Why change shaft if its the swing and not the club? But then again I am wondering if he has this problem still after nearly 2 years when the topic was started? Haha

[golfbum9]

Are you sure that you aren't just trying to kill the ball?
Sometimes ("off" days in particular) the hands get too active and everything gets out of sync when we go after it hard.

Just a thought.

[MrParr1Noid]

Are you sure that you aren't just trying to kill the ball?

Sometimes ("off" days in particular) the hands get too active and everything gets out of sync when we go after it hard.

 

Just a thought.

 

Since this topic is two years old, for all we know the author might be dead by now...

 

JAT

 

 

 

 

 

[golfbum9]

Are you sure that you aren't just trying to kill the ball?

Sometimes ("off" days in particular) the hands get too active and everything gets out of sync when we go after it hard.

 

Just a thought.

 

Since this topic is two years old, for all we know the author might be dead by now...

 

JAT

Haha! Hadn't noticed that...

Is there a way to add the start date under the topic line for dummies like me? :)

[REEVO]

[quote name='J.Gorrell' timestamp='1304785821' post='3214742']
[quote name='REEVO' timestamp='1304757534' post='3214222']
[quote name='euge1978' timestamp='1249173453' post='1858326']
That is kind of what I thought. Now that I have irons that match my swing speed I am swinging the driver faster. I didn't want to put a new shaft in the driver but it looks like I may have to. Any suggestions on a shaft for my swing speed?
[/quote]

[b]That shaft is pretty stiff but looking at the photo it cant take the load so i would go up to X stiff, you need to go and get fitted up and get looked at[/b], you open a can of worms otherwise so just pay the money and get sorted properly, [b]then you know thats its your swing at fault not the clubs.[/b]
[/quote]


May wanna read the thread. The picture is irrelevant in this case. Why change shaft if its the swing and not the club? But then again I am wondering if he has this problem still after nearly 2 years when the topic was started? Haha
[/quote]

Well if his swing speed is 116-120 he probably does need a x stiff shaft, i know your trying to be clever but if he's hitting his irons well why is the driver going to rat s***... if his haft is to whippy that could easily cause a snap hook.

[SPY ZINGER]

Are you sure that you aren't just trying to kill the ball?

Sometimes ("off" days in particular) the hands get too active and everything gets out of sync when we go after it hard.

 

Just a thought.

 

Since this topic is two years old, for all we know the author might be dead by now...

 

JAT

Haha! Hadn't noticed that...

Is there a way to add the start date under the topic line for dummies like me? :)

Or now he's flighting a slice.