Shooting for the Champions Tour

[kekoa]

I'm curious. I know there are a few paths to the PGA tour, but does the same apply to the Chamions/Seniors tour and is it easier or harder. From the looks of it, most guys just graduate from the pga to champions. I have a buddy who plays to a 4 index right now and wants to one day play professionally in 10 or 15 years. He was asking me how to do it and I have no idea.

[Hidalgo]

Been there ... done that. It's a difficult feat to pull off.

The Champions Tour is what I refer to as a "Closed Shop" for all practical purposes. The PGA Tour wants to see RECOGNIZABLE players out there. That's what brings in the TV audiences as well as the patrons at the sites. How many Joe Regular guys do you see out there? Not many. It's been a while since I played at the Q School, but if you look you'll probably see that they only take 2-3 out of Q School. Add to that fact the number of players is limited, and guess who gets first pick at the spots? That's right ... the guys who are past winners on the PGA Tour and also the players who are somewhere in the career money earnings on the regular tour. You could actually be the Medalist at Q School and not get into ANY tournaments during the year! Granted ... that's an extreme situation that has probably never happened, but it IS entirely possible.

Other than going through Hell Week, you can go to the sites and try to Monday qualify. But you'll have to beat 30-40 (or more) other guys and will probably be playing for only 1 or 2 spots in the tournament.

Tell your friend that there are "other" alternatives. If you do a search, you can find several senior tours out there. They don't pay huge purses, but you can just pay your money and play. That's what I did. It took me 2 years to get to a "break even" point. Needless to say, I wasn't talented enough to play in that field, much less with the Kites, Pates, and Trevinos.

Like I said ... the Tour don't WANT us (unknowns) out there. We won't make them any money.

Sorry for the "Gloom & Doom" forecast, but that's the way it is.

[SwingLikeElk]

[quote name='Hidalgo' post='1925020' date='Aug 31 2009, 02:35 PM']Been there ... done that. It's a difficult feat to pull off.

The Champions Tour is what I refer to as a "Closed Shop" for all practical purposes. The PGA Tour wants to see RECOGNIZABLE players out there. That's what brings in the TV audiences as well as the patrons at the sites. How many Joe Regular guys do you see out there? Not many. It's been a while since I played at the Q School, but if you look you'll probably see that they only take 2-3 out of Q School. Add to that fact the number of players is limited, and guess who gets first pick at the spots? That's right ... the guys who are past winners on the PGA Tour and also the players who are somewhere in the career money earnings on the regular tour. You could actually be the Medalist at Q School and not get into ANY tournaments during the year! Granted ... that's an extreme situation that has probably never happened, but it IS entirely possible.

Other than going through Hell Week, you can go to the sites and try to Monday qualify. But you'll have to beat 30-40 (or more) other guys and will probably be playing for only 1 or 2 spots in the tournament.

Tell your friend that there are "other" alternatives. If you do a search, you can find several senior tours out there. They don't pay huge purses, but you can just pay your money and play. That's what I did. It took me 2 years to get to a "break even" point. Needless to say, I wasn't talented enough to play in that field, much less with the Kites, Pates, and Trevinos.

Like I said ... the Tour don't WANT us (unknowns) out there. We won't make them any money.

Sorry for the "Gloom & Doom" forecast, but that's the way it is.[/quote]


Couldn't disagree more!

Everyone at some point was an "unknown". What they want is great competition and colorful competitors. Tom Wargo and Bobby Stroble come to mind as once being unknowns on the Senior Tour...but they competed at the highest level and drew attention to themselves for their play.

The thing that concerns me is your friend being a 4 handicap. This could change, sure...but it would have to dramatically. There are many guys lower than that at my club who have jobs outside of golf because they weren't even close to competing at the highest level.

Sure, he may find a world class teacher, get sponsored and have an endless fund for travel, lodging, etc., but finishing 3 rounds well below par each week should be more of an expectation. As nice as they are, you can't bring a shiny new stock Corvette to a NASCAR race.

[Carolina Golfer 2]

I had a teaching pro tell me once when we were discussing this. When I said something to hm really crazy like. When I turn 40 (I was I think 30 at the time), If someone in my position is able and willing to work at a golf course and practice everyday, do you think 10 years is enough time to get ready for the Seniors Tour.

He said, we'll lets take at look at the 30 year olds or there abouts on tour right now. Greg Norman, Tom Kite, Curtis Strange, Mark Calcavechia, Payne Stewart...etc. Well that will be your competition. If you're not better than them now, what make you think you can be better than them in 20 years.

The same would go for today, tell your friend look at todays 30 somethings. Camillo, Sergio, Lucas Glover, Hunter Mahan some of the older ones....David Toms, Boo Weekly, JB Holmes...well you get the idea. Now ask him the same question. If he's a 4 HC now, what makes him think he can be better than them in say 10 to 15 years.

[Hidalgo]

[quote name='SwingLikeElk' post='1925230' date='Aug 31 2009, 05:13 PM']Couldn't disagree more!

Everyone at some point was an "unknown". What they want is great competition and colorful competitors. Tom Wargo and Bobby Stroble come to mind as once being unknowns on the Senior Tour...but they competed at the highest level and drew attention to themselves for their play.[/quote]

Of course, you're welcome to disagree. But you have NO IDEA what you're talking about.

You named Wargo & Stroble ... that's two players. Whoopie!

Like I said to the OP ... look at what it takes to get into a tournament. Then look at how many are promoted out of Q School. Then look and see how many of the Q School grads actually get into a tournament the next year ... and if they DO get in, how many did they play?

Look SwingLikeElk, I've been involved with what is affectionately (amougst tour players) known as the "PGA Retirement Tour" and I know what I'm talking about. Do the research before you disagree.

[golf_fanatik]

Carolina Golfer: Your post is actually a very eloquent.. it gives you a good perspective.

I attended the Boeing Classic yesterday and sure I saw awesome shots but what struck me the most is the intensity and fire all these guys still have.

Stadler was his usual self throwing the putter after a dissapointed shot.. likewise with Bernard.. even when them were not in contention.. To me that would be the biggest difference.. they are used to the pressure and the intensity of the game..

[rkruff]

I don't think the vast majority of the golfing public really understands or appreciates how good these guys are. They are to a 4 handicap like that 4 handicap is to a 25 Handicap. They are so good, it's silly. Even a scratch player does not stand a chance and to get from a 4 to scratch would be a miracle.

[SwingLikeElk]

[quote name='Hidalgo' post='1925327' date='Aug 31 2009, 05:01 PM'][quote name='SwingLikeElk' post='1925230' date='Aug 31 2009, 05:13 PM']Couldn't disagree more!

Everyone at some point was an "unknown". What they want is great competition and colorful competitors. Tom Wargo and Bobby Stroble come to mind as once being unknowns on the Senior Tour...but they competed at the highest level and drew attention to themselves for their play.[/quote]

Of course, you're welcome to disagree. But you have NO IDEA what you're talking about.

You named Wargo & Stroble ... that's two players. Whoopie!

Like I said to the OP ... look at what it takes to get into a tournament. Then look at how many are promoted out of Q School. Then look and see how many of the Q School grads actually get into a tournament the next year ... and if they DO get in, how many did they play?

Look SwingLikeElk, I've been involved with what is affectionately (amougst tour players) known as the "PGA Retirement Tour" and I know what I'm talking about. Do the research before you disagree.
[/quote]


I guess I should just rely on the undisputable fact that you know what you''re talking about. So sorry!

[Tstiles]

The best way to figure out if you've got it is to get in a few rounds with somebody who's out there.

I have no delusions about playing out there , but I played a round with Robert Thompson a couple of years ago. When you play with a guy who's got it , it's pretty clear what it takes.

BTW : Back when I was in my early 20's , I had the chance to tee it up with the reigning US Open Champ Lou Graham. I played near my best , hit about 15 greens , made a few birdies , made a few bogies , basically hit the same shots the US Open champ was hitting ... Only one problem , Lou never came close to making a bogey , hit it to kick in distance a couple of times and shot 68 to my 72 or so ... Lou had a typical day , I had a good day ... Let's say we did that for 72 holes ... He just beat me by 16 shots .... I decided pretty quick that my route to riches in golf was not on tour.

[cAsE sEnSiTiVe]

Swing like Elk......Hidalgo is absolutely ON POINT with his post regarding how difficult it is to get a shot out there on the Senior Tour. Of course there have been exceptions, as in all things, but those rare occurrences are FAR from the norm.

[joekelli]

[quote name='rkruff' post='1925411' date='Aug 31 2009, 06:44 PM']I don't think the vast majority of the golfing public really understands or appreciates how good these guys are. They are to a 4 handicap like that 4 handicap is to a 25 Handicap. They are so good, it's silly. Even a scratch player does not stand a chance and to get from a 4 to scratch would be a miracle.[/quote]


I am not sure why you think it would be a miracle to go from a 4 to a scratch golfer? I am 43 and at a 4.2hdcp right now and only play once a week and hit the range or practice green even less. I am self taught and have never had a swing coach. I know if I had the time (and Money!) to play almost every day and practice for several hours a day i could easily become a scratch golfer. I just dont think my wife would be into me quiting my job and playing golf full time! You just cant lump all 4 hdcp players together, Some of those players might be playing and practicing a lot just to be a 4!

[Hidalgo]

[quote name='SwingLikeElk' post='1925591' date='Aug 31 2009, 07:56 PM']I guess I should just rely on the undisputable fact that you know what you''re talking about. So sorry![/quote]

If that was an attempt at sarcasm, you need to work on your delivery a little ...

As far as "relying" on anything I say, perhaps you should do your due diligence before you attempt to disregard the facts of a person who has first-hand knowledge of the situation? All you have to do is take your little fingers on the keyboard and research the players, the Q School grads, and tournament results. You'll see very quickly that the vast majority of players in the field are off the regular tour or at the very least have played and had success in other regional senior tours.

Aw Hell ... I'll even do the first one for you ...

At the Boeing Classic last week, there were 78 players. No cut. Out of the 78, there were two (yep ... TWO) that were not money winners on the PGA Tour (regular tour). These two were Jeff Coston and Jeb Stuart. You can do the rest of the research yourself...

The cold, hard facts of the matter is what I said before: The PGA Tour does not WANT nor NEED unknown players out there. They have to "keep the door open" to some degree in order to avoid the Feds coming down on them and losing their tax status. If there was no avenue in for the general public (although it IS a ridiculous process) they would be considered a "club" or other category and that would cause all kinds of tax and organizational problems for them. Not to mention that the players could no longer be considered as Independent Contractors and then the Tour would be responsible for their share of payroll taxes. Trust me, they aren't going to allow that to happen.

Face the facts: The Tour runs this thing to make money. Plain and simple. Would you go pay to see Joe Public and 77 other Jack Citizens play? Would Boeing or other sponsors pay to sponsor the tournament? And would TNT, ESPN, or TGC waste their money to buy the rights to the broadcasts?

[b]I'm not trying to discourage your friend.[/b] I did the same thing that he is contemplating. But that doesn't change the facts. It's almost an impossibility unless you are EXTREMELY talented. Plain and simple.

[70sSanO]

There was a similar thread based on a golf magazine's response that a man with a 4 hdcp would be crushed by the 150th ranked LPGA player.

I think the most compelling argument against the 4 hdcp is the fact that the conditions being played are so different than what he typically plays that it goes beyond just being extremely talented.

Based on the insight from this thread the PGA Champions tour doesn't really want Joe Average there. And then take that pressure and add to it: courses that are not familiar, cameras rolling, playing against the greats of the game who have all experienced and survived meltdowns that are preserved in video for the ages, and somehow it goes way beyond just the talent.

What are we talking about... 100 or so great players of their age; and how many club champions, local league legends, and just plain excellent golfers are out there.

I have to agree that I doubt I would watch if there were a list of no-names playing. It's like World Team Tennis, I may watch the locals play when there is nothng else on, but when McEnroe or Sampras show up, I'll watch that.

John

[dgrelecki]

I can only go on my personal experience from how good you need to be to get on tour. The US Senior open this year, a person that I've played with several times played. He's a +4.4 amateur. The course was a course he'd played more times that ANYONE else in the field...huge home course advantage. After 2 rounds, he was "on average" 7.5 shots per round off the leader.
I say good luck to your friend, but more importantly make sure he has no illusions about how difficult it is. I would say if he can get to a +5 playing in tourneys on tough courses with good competition, he might have a chance at sneaking on. So tell him to start averaging 8 more birdies per round and he's almost there!!

[ssp]

The odds and statistics speak for themself. On the other hand - if you are in a financial position to try - why not. I think the monday qualifier route is an easy way to get your feet wet. In addition - SR. AM events are a good way to see where your game is. Tournament conditions are different than club conditions (course and pressure) - do you step up or step back in these situations? Most step back - but who knows there have been some that step up.

My personal experience is limited - I was a +3.3 (member) on a tour stop course. The course would play 5 shots harder (easily) the week or 2 leading up to the event. I would probably have been around scratch or a 1 index playing on these conditions all the time on a course I was very familiar. In addition - I would do the Monday qualifer on a course I would play 1 or 2 times a year. I would shoot 2 under to even most years and that would land me about 20 - 30th out of 100 players. Although that was a pretty good gap - I worked, family and played 1 -2 rounds per week and about 60 minutes of practice each week. It always made me curious if I could have 'Stepped UP'.

So try it if you have the means is my take on it.

[rkruff]

[quote name='joekelli' post='1925787' date='Aug 31 2009, 06:07 PM'][quote name='rkruff' post='1925411' date='Aug 31 2009, 06:44 PM']I don't think the vast majority of the golfing public really understands or appreciates how good these guys are. They are to a 4 handicap like that 4 handicap is to a 25 Handicap. They are so good, it's silly. Even a scratch player does not stand a chance and to get from a 4 to scratch would be a miracle.[/quote]


I am not sure why you think it would be a miracle to go from a 4 to a scratch golfer? I am 43 and at a 4.2hdcp right now and only play once a week and hit the range or practice green even less. I am self taught and have never had a swing coach. I know if I had the time (and Money!) to play almost every day and practice for several hours a day i could easily become a scratch golfer. I just dont think my wife would be into me quiting my job and playing golf full time! You just cant lump all 4 hdcp players together, Some of those players might be playing and practicing a lot just to be a 4!
[/quote]


Sure, it can be done. I am 53, retired when I was 48, played golf every day. My index never got below .3 I have played golf for 30 years. During that time I had the chance to play with guys from various tours. It became very clear, very quickly, that I would never have what it takes. If you have ever seen "Tournament Tough", you will know what I mean. Getting to scratch could be done, but it's not even in the realm of what it takes. You need to be +5 and Tournament Tough or you will just embarrass yourself. 'These Guys are Good' is the biggest understatement in Golf today. When I was 51, after doing the above for 3 solid years, I went back to work. Couldn't be happier. I now play 2x per week and my index is 3.8 Good Luck!!

[JeffreySpicoli]

Every time I read a post about someone with a 0-9 handicap thinking that they're just one step away from professional stardom, I think of Tom Coyne's "golf-greatness pyramid."

In his book, [i]Paper Tiger[/i], Coyne lays out this pyramid from page 51 to page 57. You can read it [url="http://books.google.com/books?id=_CygM0uxpoMC&pg=PA51&lpg=PA51&dq="tom+coyne"+pyramid&source=bl&ots=smqccyAJrW&sig=U0AwMAmOjW0gysqwy8xYRJz7_Bk&hl=en&ei=E06dSpu7EYmaMNPEsY4C&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=3#v=onepage&q=&f=false"]here[/url].

Two paragraphs speak particularly to this thread . . .

[quote]Consider the golf-greatness pyramid's base, a wide mass of good players, great players, best ball strikers you have ever witnessed firsthand, the only ace you have ever been accidentally, terrifyingly, matched up with--we'll call him or her The Best Player You Know. Maybe he's your club champion, maybe your neighbor's sixteen-year-old, perhaps it's your boss who has the scorecard from Pebble Beach on the wall and tells all the clients, "Shot 73, couldn't make a damn putt." The real sticks, guys who talk about what they might have done in golf if they steered their life a little differently, if only they took their shot. A two-, three-handicap--maybe even a scratch player. If you watched them hit balls you would weep inside.

And here's the news about The Best Players You Know: They're s***. Scratch is s***. The Best Players You Know simply cannot play. They are the mere masses, golf's faceless proletariat, utterly forgettable. They are little than the wide sprawling base of wannabes on which the pyramid is planted.[/quote]

[wjdpar1]

Who knows how long the "champions" tour will be around? I've heard that it is not a profitable tour and is subsidized by the PGA tour. The poor economy does not bode well for this tour. The crowds appear to be getting smaller and smaller. I can certainly believe they don't want any "no names" out there or the Kites and Watsons and Prices may find themselves with that golden pot.

[farmer]

In my area there is a guy who has won everything, has won statewide tourneys (in TX a big deal), had qualified for match play in the US Amatuer, US Open-in short, great credentials. Before he turned 50, he went and played on mini-tours to get ready for the senior tour. Never broke an egg. Made a little money but was in no way a really competitive player. He was playing mostly young guys, but many steps below Nationwide ability and a vast level below tour play. I don't know, but he was probably a 4 in his teens. So, a 40 something 4 has no chance even if it was an open shop.

[buster]

I worked with a guy who was a COO of a company bought out by a Big Phone company when he was 44... he made enough money to never work again and he and his wife bought a lovely home on TPC in Xcity... the deal was this: He was scratch and knew he was a long way off but figured 6 years or working hard at it and he might have a shot at the CT... worked his way to a +3 playing a lot of tooneys and spending some serious money on the best coaching you can find (he went to Butch among others)... so here he is at 46 and the Champs tour comes to town and he plays the Pro Am, makes friends with the Pro and starts up a few relationships with some other players as well. Keeps working and at 49 he plays a practice round with three of the very well known guys on the tour for a little cash... straight up... he was beat so badly they sold their home in Texas and moved to Portland OR to be close to his wife's family.. he still plays to a +1-2 and really enjoys AM competition but he could really breath some reality into the kind of dreaming we can do around competing at the highest levels of the game... that said, this country is about making dreams come true by having a vision, working very hard to achieve it and getting it done.. So no discouraging words here, but you gotta know that if you can't shoot mid sixties with your buds, you are not going to make a living playing pro golf.. it really is that simple.

[petter7]

[quote name='buster' post='2046821' date='Nov 5 2009, 03:26 AM']I worked with a guy who was a COO of a company bought out by a Big Phone company when he was 44... he made enough money to never work again and he and his wife bought a lovely home on TPC in Xcity... the deal was this: He was scratch and knew he was a long way off but figured 6 years or working hard at it and he might have a shot at the CT... worked his way to a +3 playing a lot of tooneys and spending some serious money on the best coaching you can find (he went to Butch among others)... so here he is at 46 and the Champs tour comes to town and he plays the Pro Am, makes friends with the Pro and starts up a few relationships with some other players as well. Keeps working and at 49 he plays a practice round with three of the very well known guys on the tour for a little cash... straight up... he was beat so badly they sold their home in Texas and moved to Portland OR to be close to his wife's family.. he still plays to a +1-2 and really enjoys AM competition but he could really breath some reality into the kind of dreaming we can do around competing at the highest levels of the game... that said, this country is about making dreams come true by having a vision, working very hard to achieve it and getting it done.. So no discouraging words here, but you gotta know that if you can't shoot [b]mid sixties with your buds,[/b] you are not going to make a living playing pro golf.. it really is that simple.[/quote]

Mid sixties with four lip outs.

[Golffabrik]

I was on vacation in Florida one year and by chance got thrown into a flight with 3 other guys on Sawgrass. I was playing off a 3 index at the time and on the first tee they asked if I wanted to play from the tips, and I said yes. One of the guys (Robert) was about 60 and I thought WTF is this guy thinking.

Long story short...I didn't break 80 and two of the others (including Robert) shot 3 or 4 under. I had to buy a round and we had a chat at the bar. I asked Robert if he had ever contemplated playing on the CT and he replied:

"I've tried to get through Q-School for 6 years running and my highest finish was tied 8th 3 years ago."

That was for me like a cold shower, and the best reality check I've ever had.

[63Brummie]

[quote name='joekelli' post='1925787' date='Aug 31 2009, 08:07 PM'][quote name='rkruff' post='1925411' date='Aug 31 2009, 06:44 PM']I don't think the vast majority of the golfing public really understands or appreciates how good these guys are. They are to a 4 handicap like that 4 handicap is to a 25 Handicap. They are so good, it's silly. Even a scratch player does not stand a chance and to get from a 4 to scratch would be a miracle.[/quote]


I am not sure why you think it would be a miracle to go from a 4 to a scratch golfer? I am 43 and at a 4.2hdcp right now and only play once a week and hit the range or practice green even less. I am self taught and have never had a swing coach. I know if I had the time (and Money!) to play almost every day and practice for several hours a day i could easily become a scratch golfer. I just dont think my wife would be into me quiting my job and playing golf full time! You just cant lump all 4 hdcp players together, Some of those players might be playing and practicing a lot just to be a 4!
[/quote]

Right on Buddy...
I agree, the hope ; although it can kill you can also keep you going
Fairways and greens.

[78blades]

[quote name='rkruff' post='1925411' date='Aug 31 2009, 02:44 PM']I don't think the vast majority of the golfing public really understands or appreciates how good these guys are. They are to a 4 handicap like that 4 handicap is to a 25 Handicap. They are so good, it's silly. Even a scratch player does not stand a chance and to get from a 4 to scratch would be a miracle.[/quote]


I agree with that. I've heard that they figure Tigers hc is +13 so the Senior Tour guys are probably around +6 to 10 I'd imagine.

An example I've heard is if you are good enough to be on the PGA tour is to play your home course from the tips everyday for 2 months and average 66 per round. I don't think the senior tour is that much different, maybe average 68 or 69 over the same time period. These guys are ridiculously good.

[farmer]

OT-nice to see your name again Buster. One of the guys I've missed from BSG.

[buster]

[quote name='farmer' post='2047433' date='Nov 5 2009, 09:37 AM']OT-nice to see your name again Buster. One of the guys I've missed from BSG.[/quote]

Thanks very much... I actually know a couple of the guys here (played with Kwok and Co when I lived in the Bay Area a time or two-he's a sly dog btw...just a super guy) and never came over to spend any real time here... this is a super place... thanks for the shoutout! much appreciated... hope I can add something worthwhile to WRX over time...

[buster]

[quote name='rebels68' post='2046827' date='Nov 5 2009, 12:40 AM'][quote name='buster' post='2046821' date='Nov 5 2009, 03:26 AM']I worked with a guy who was a COO of a company bought out by a Big Phone company when he was 44... he made enough money to never work again and he and his wife bought a lovely home on TPC in Xcity... the deal was this: He was scratch and knew he was a long way off but figured 6 years or working hard at it and he might have a shot at the CT... worked his way to a +3 playing a lot of tooneys and spending some serious money on the best coaching you can find (he went to Butch among others)... so here he is at 46 and the Champs tour comes to town and he plays the Pro Am, makes friends with the Pro and starts up a few relationships with some other players as well. Keeps working and at 49 he plays a practice round with three of the very well known guys on the tour for a little cash... straight up... he was beat so badly they sold their home in Texas and moved to Portland OR to be close to his wife's family.. he still plays to a +1-2 and really enjoys AM competition but he could really breath some reality into the kind of dreaming we can do around competing at the highest levels of the game... that said, this country is about making dreams come true by having a vision, working very hard to achieve it and getting it done.. So no discouraging words here, but you gotta know that if you can't shoot [b]mid sixties with your buds,[/b] you are not going to make a living playing pro golf.. it really is that simple.[/quote]

Mid sixties with four lip outs.
[/quote]

they'll be falling when it counts..! Saw Scott today and asked me to give you his best... he knows all about your history..amazing!.. he recounted almost item by item the note you wrote the other day!.. told him you were on your way back and he said, "that guy could do it!"... with a nod.. one of the guys who works for him is going Pro... following in his older Brother's footsteps... we got into all the things that have to go right... you know that discussion!

[petter7]

[quote name='buster' post='2048754' date='Nov 5 2009, 11:37 PM'][quote name='rebels68' post='2046827' date='Nov 5 2009, 12:40 AM'][quote name='buster' post='2046821' date='Nov 5 2009, 03:26 AM']I worked with a guy who was a COO of a company bought out by a Big Phone company when he was 44... he made enough money to never work again and he and his wife bought a lovely home on TPC in Xcity... the deal was this: He was scratch and knew he was a long way off but figured 6 years or working hard at it and he might have a shot at the CT... worked his way to a +3 playing a lot of tooneys and spending some serious money on the best coaching you can find (he went to Butch among others)... so here he is at 46 and the Champs tour comes to town and he plays the Pro Am, makes friends with the Pro and starts up a few relationships with some other players as well. Keeps working and at 49 he plays a practice round with three of the very well known guys on the tour for a little cash... straight up... he was beat so badly they sold their home in Texas and moved to Portland OR to be close to his wife's family.. he still plays to a +1-2 and really enjoys AM competition but he could really breath some reality into the kind of dreaming we can do around competing at the highest levels of the game... that said, this country is about making dreams come true by having a vision, working very hard to achieve it and getting it done.. So no discouraging words here, but you gotta know that if you can't shoot [b]mid sixties with your buds,[/b] you are not going to make a living playing pro golf.. it really is that simple.[/quote]

Mid sixties with four lip outs.
[/quote]

they'll be falling when it counts..! Saw Scott today and asked me to give you his best... he knows all about your history..amazing!.. he recounted almost item by item the note you wrote the other day!.. told him you were on your way back and he said, "that guy could do it!"... with a nod.. one of the guys who works for him is going Pro... following in his older Brother's footsteps... we got into all the things that have to go right... you know that discussion!
[/quote]

Yes, indeed, I do know that conversation.

My comment was referring to shooting 65 with four lip outs, better known as an easy 65.
If you can shoot those with your buddies, go give a Friday/Monday Champs Tour qualifing
a shot. Never did like the concept of getting through a qualifier to get into a qualifier.

[JTI]

Now i dont know anything about playing on tour, i have played with a lot of pros, one pro who's amateur career (he played at the same course as Faldo at the same time and was actually better than Faldo) BUT one massive difference, the mental game, the pro i know was better than Faldo at an amateur level, but couldnt cut it on tour because he didnt have that mental strength or 'next level' that all tour pros seem to have.

All this being said, its a good thing to remember Ian Poulter turned pro off 4...now he is probably a one in a million shot, but still, he turned pro off 4, was told he would never make it. Id say good luck to your friend, the odds though are stacked against him...but it has been done before, hope it goes well

[hardten]

[quote name='kekoa' date='31 August 2009 - 02:11 PM' timestamp='1251745882' post='1924965']
I'm curious. I know there are a few paths to the PGA tour, but does the same apply to the Chamions/Seniors tour and is it easier or harder. From the looks of it, most guys just graduate from the pga to champions. I have a buddy who plays to a 4 index right now and wants to one day play professionally in 10 or 15 years. He was asking me how to do it and I have no idea.
[/quote]
If it has already been said please excuse but I remember Trevino's reply when a rich guy asked about his Senior Tour chances and Lee's reply" If you can shoot 66 or better six times in a row you might have a chance to even further pursuing it". Harvey Peenick when being approached by a similiar type amatuer told the guy to go down to the range and ask yourself can you beat the guy practicing? It was Tom Kite. As Bob Roseburg use to say "he has no chance." Don,t ,mean too be negative but if a guy has to ask he ain,t good enough in first place. It is amazing how good any Touring Pro is from any Tour.